A list of the characters Ness can mess with when they have to recover

[_clinton]

I never wrote a guide...

This thing would be a guide IMO...

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=194857

Anyway...

But, I'd say the 3 is kinda low. Maybe the Thunder could mess with her horizontal float recovery, and the dair could hit through the parasol occasionally, but I think Peach has too many options to get that low a score.

Her options on paper, and in order and with uses, would be:

float (distance and stalling)
forward b (distance and offensive)
toad (stalling and defensive)
up b (distance and offensive)

My thoughts on PK Flash is that the main use of it is to prevent stalling (and to control the foe to a point)...otherwise you get screwed for the most part...

Peach can usually nair projectiles if they target her during her float,

Nair on PK Thunder, Fire, and Flash won't work IMO...still it is nice I guess...

forward b will stage spike if you're holding the ledge for some crazy reason,

I'm not much of a person to hold the ledge with Ness...you know...because his projectiles shine most when the target has to recover...

toad for some coverage and that tiny air hop,

I've tested the toad tiny air hop in a recovery distance test...it doesn't really add anything...however it doesn't take anything either for the 1st use of it...so...it is still good at least...

and the up comes out fast enough to sweetspot away from a dair, or even hit it during its startup lag.

What about Ness' other air moves?

Nair for example has more power then Wario's...comes out on Frame 4 and lasts for a bit...and Peach is light as well...that is if it is fresh of course...

Not to mention if your holding the ledge after the upb, the parasol is still a constant hitbox and Ness and Peach would trade places on the ledge.

I'd rather throw PK Fire at the floating ***** when she is in parasol mode...and try for a pillar spike or something

Anyway...my thoughts on gimping Peach...unless you can lower her height enough...good luck...still...

Ness' Dair breaks through MK's Shuttle Loop...I'm sure it will work on Peach's Parasol...of course...I also feel that I don't have enough EXP for Peach match ups...so...yeah...anyway...I guess it is on theory ATM for what I'm saying...

So...got time for a few sometime? ^_^

 

[deepseadiva]

I'd discourage Flash against Peach. She can just float away from its range till it's over. Otherwise, I'd imagine Thunder gets canceled by nair..., but I haven't tested it exactly. Fire would go through - the problem being actually landing it. Peach could easily just float out of the way. In short, I'd say out of the three, PK Fire would be the most useful in guarding against Peach. Just tricky to actually pull off.

Yea, don't grab the ledge against Peach. Won't work.

Toad when recovering isn't meant for distance, its a small stalling technique and an answer to over aggression.

Nair, I could see as useful - if you don't get attacked in return. Peach's and Ness' nairs are very similar, and I find myself using them identically. Fastfall to nair sometimes gets me kills. Though against Peach she could use her own nair (frame two), or another aerial/forward b.

Dair will smack through the parasol. Once again though, the problem is landing it as most Peach's would go for the sweetspot. And with the speed it comes out, I don't think the dair would have enough time to intercept it.

So...got time for a few sometime? ^_^

I'll add you next time I turn Brawl on. Ness v. Peach, 50-50, woot woot.

 

[_clinton]

I'd discourage Flash against Peach. She can just float away from its range till it's over.

That is sort of what I would want her to do...still again...at some point...she'll have to go to the stage...she can't stay out there forever...

Otherwise, I'd imagine Thunder gets canceled by nair..., but I haven't tested it exactly.

Not the tail of thunder...you know...the good part of Ness' PKT...

Fire would go through - the problem being actually landing it. Peach could easily just float out of the way. In short, I'd say out of the three, PK Fire would be the most useful in guarding against Peach. Just tricky to actually pull off.

That is always an issue with Fire though...landing it ^_^

Toad when recovering isn't meant for distance, its a small stalling technique and an answer to over aggression.

Well I'm glad my testing said that overall at least ^_^

Dair will smack through the parasol. Once again though, the problem is landing it as most Peach's would go for the sweetspot. And with the speed it comes out, I don't think the dair would have enough time to intercept it.

Pillar Spike sort of deals with speed issues in Dair IMO...

I'll add you next time I turn Brawl on. Ness v. Peach, 50-50, woot woot.

Meh...I feel Peach has the + in the match...but whatever...just PM sometime k ^_^

 

[ColinJF]

Heh heh I didn't mean to post here...

 

[_clinton]

We should talk about Diddy...

 

[Gea]

Peach's Dair kills PKT, Peach's toad kills PKT, and I'm pretty sure if the ball is above her, uair works too. She can float high if she DIs up and come back waaaay above you. So you PKT... and we start coming down with dairs. If you try to bring it up under us it cancels it.

As far as going back to the edge... PK Fire is about the most dangerous thing you can do. You see, if we try to toad it and are level with the edge, the animation of putting out spores could put us dangerously low. If we get hit by it... well you know how that goes. Parasol is alittle underrated for how well it cuts through aerials and gets her back onto the edge, but if you can somehow turn her around you can go for a gimp.

Still, I'd say 4/5 as well. Definitely not the hardest to gimp, but she has alot of options and has no trouble getting from the blastzone back to the stage.

In fact, while she doesn't have many tricksy moves or a rigged flip kick like ZSS/Diddy, you'll see ZSS dying off of the bottom more than Peach. Though I definitely agree, ZSS has the potiental to have an awesome recovery. Well underrated.

 

[yummynbeefy]

There is. You can ledgewhip any tether character when they reel up towards the ledge. All tether characters are vulnerable to this. Once you hit them with the tail of PKT, redirect the head towards them and it will most likely stagespike to their doom. If not, just edgehog them.

Lol. I assume Ness's nightmare is Ness?

thats my ness's nightmare i do decently on almost every other character exept for ness lol

 

[_clinton]

Oh my...posts are in this topic

 

[Earthbound360]

Has anyone seen what PKT can do to a Wolf using his SideB recovery?

It's lawltastic. He's like the easiest character to PKT stagespike evar. PKT's HEAD outprioritizes his SideB. If you time it so that he's about to grab the ledge and you hit him in front with PKT, he flies really fast into the stage's edge (Play on FD or Smashville or... *shudders* Battlefield) and bounces to his doom. If they see it, they can possibly tech, maybe DI a bit, but this isn't something people see coming all the time.

I did it 2 times in a row to Jumpman

 

[Lizard]

Gimping other Ness's and Lucas's with Psi magnet is great if you can catch them recovering without a double jump.

 

[Green-Machine]

Ness easily has one of the hardest times recovering in the game and i get pissed off when i am so close to using pkt2 and they eat the ball

 

[Gaussis]

Umm, don't use PKT?

If they eat the head too often, you're not recovering right. Many times, you can avoid using PKT by recovering using only the double jump. DI is also important. Or you can learn how to use PKT.

 

[Green-Machine]

Well if you get smashed too far and you cant get back on jump alone what do you do then?

 

[Earthbound360]

You use PKT in a position in which it cant be eaten >_>

 

[Earthbound Zero]

It's funny when you're opponent is trying to steal you're PK Thunder, and get themselves trapped in it and KOed.

It's such a Swell Surprise.

 

[xoxokev]

It's such a Swell Surprise.

10swellsurprises

 

[paper otavio]

Mario should at least be 4/5.
He has so many options for countering Ness in the air.
Like his cape for example...

 

[Xebenkeck]

This is great! Caz combo is so epic. BTW, I think Ness' dair is actually the second strongest according to http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=199830

Anywhere but 0%-about 11% its second. Ness' has the highest initial power, so he can spike people at 0%, the only reason his is rendered second is bcuz ganon's has a ridiculous growth rate on his.

I'd say luigi is harder to gimp than you give him credit for. His rising tornado gives him a massive vertical boost, so he can then just green rocket back to the stage. He has great horizontal air movment. Plus you have to account for a potential misfire to help him back. And even then he still has his upB.

 

[_clinton]

Mario should at least be 4/5.
He has so many options for countering Ness in the air.
Like his cape for example...

I'm aware of what his cape can do...and everything Mario can do...

I'd say luigi is harder to gimp than you give him credit for. His rising tornado gives him a massive vertical boost, so he can then just green rocket back to the stage. He has great horizontal air movment. Plus you have to account for a potential misfire to help him back. And even then he still has his upB.

PK Thunder's tail sort of screws with him a bit though...

 

[Uffe]

Ness easily has one of the hardest times recovering in the game and i get pissed off when i am so close to using pkt2 and they eat the ball

It's not as bad as you think. Some characters have it worse.

 

[Gaussis]

It's not as bad as you think. Some characters have it worse.

*coughganonandlinkcough*

10sads

 

[_clinton]

Ness' recovery vs. others...this list is a list of characters who can go to hell as far as recovery goes compared to Ness and his underrated recovery...or at least he is close to them in some way...

1. Mario
2. Peach
3. Bowser
4. DK
5. Diddy
6. Link
7. Zelda
8. Sheik
9. Ganon
10. Zamus
11. Ice Climbers
12. D3
13. Olimar
14. Falco
15. Wolf
16. Squirtle
17. Ivysaur
18. Charizard
19. Lucario
20. Marth
21. Ike
22. Snake

 

[Gaussis]

LOL. That's more than half of the cast XD.

Is the list in a specific order or is it in no order at all?

 

[_clinton]

LOL. That's more than half of the cast XD.

Is the list in a specific order or is it in no order at all?

Well...I hate more then 1/2 of the casts recovery methods compared to Ness...and of course it is in order...just not any special order (Diddy's is of course better then Mario's recovery...but he comes after DK on the character list you know ^_^)

 

[Gaussis]

Oh I see wut you did thar...they're grouped by their games lol.