A list of the characters Ness can mess with when they have to recover

[_clinton]

It is sort of a work in process ok

Considering that is how I have been getting a lot of my KOs...so really quick...just to label what Ness has for gimping and so on...or at least screwing with people well so that you can catch them when they come back again

PK Fire
-can lead to Pillar Spikes/Caz Combo
-sets off when a foe is hanging from the ledge at ground level because of the low traveling arc, making it so Ness doesn't have to get close to the ledge if he doesn't want to
-breaks through every recovery move out there really, if you can hit them

PK Thunder
-the fact that you have free range to use it pretty much is fun
-can control certain recoveries (Zelda's for example) and cause gimps well for an ok number really when you look at the cast
-stage spiking if you are able to get them hit with it right

PK Flash
-the move works really well for recoveries that are pretty predictable (as in a lot of them) chances are if you are going to hit with it, you are going to do it when they must recover
-the fact that this move is something you don't want to trully get hit by really lets you control what your foe will do, the move was made for ledge guarding ok (well and anti-air stuff as well but whatever) ^_^ mind games people

Nair
-Ness' 4 frame move that can push them back out there ok, it kind of sucks that it isn't a low path push though

Fair
-More of an annoyer IMO for trying to set up for something better when you are out there

Bair
-If you can actually land it...chances are it will finish them at least, I'd rather go for the Uair though when trying to intercept someone's recovery though
-it is pretty good at stage spiking for the most part

Uair
-8 frames of start up, it is my favorite thing to use with flash overall

Dair
-the strongest spike at 0% in the game
-works well with the double jump ok ^_^

The Yo-yo
-another thing to use when they are hanging from the ledge, if you get it out when they start hanging, they get hit by it most of the time
-another move that causes stage spikes
-makes sure again that if Ness doesn't want to get near the ledge he doesn't really have to

PSI Magnet
-not really for gimping (good job if you do), just more of a preventive tool, nothing says suck it like knowing characters like Mario, and Pit can't throw their projectiles at you without you becoming stronger ^_^

So to start the list

The Higher the score the harder they are to gimp IMO

Mario-3/5
Luigi-2/5
Peach-3/5
Bowser-1/5
DK-1/5
Diddy-1/5
Yoshi-4/5
Wario-5/5
Link-1/5
Zelda-2/5
Shiek-2/5
Ganondorf-1/5
Tink-2/5
Samus-4/5
Zamus-3.5/5
Pit-4/5
Ice Climbers-1/5
ROB-4/5
Kirby-4/5
Meta Knight-5/5
King D3-3/5
Olimar-1/5
Fox-4/5
Falco-3/5
Wolf-3/5
Captain Falcon-3/5
Pikachu-5/5
Squirtle-2/5
Ivysaur-1/5
Charizard-2/5
Lucario-3/-5
Jigglypuff-5/5
Marth-3/5
Ike-2/5
Ness' Nightmare-3/5
Lucas-4/5
G&W-5/5
Snake-3/5
Sonic-5/5

So...lets talk ^_^

 

[xoxokev]

This is great! Caz combo is so epic. BTW, I think Ness' dair is actually the second strongest according to http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=199830

 

[Brinzy]

Sorry, but there's really no such thing as gimping Zamus unless you actually land your dair.

She has way, way too much happening for her to deserve a 3/5. I would argue that her recovery is better than Lucas's, who has 4/5, even though it's just a matter of intercepting wherever he decides to go to (if you can) or canceling out his PK Thunder one way or another.

 

[illinialex24]

Sorry, but there's really no such thing as gimping Zamus unless you actually land your dair.

She has way, way too much happening for her to deserve a 3/5. I would argue that her recovery is better than Lucas's, who has 4/5, even though it's just a matter of intercepting wherever he decides to go to (if you can) or canceling out his PK Thunder one way or another.

There are only a few character I know who can successfully gimp a ZSS without landing a huge spike like Falco or Marth or Ganondorf. Those are Metaknight, with dairs and edgehog, Jigglypuff rarely with sourspotted fairs to edgehog, and Kirby. I wouldn't put Ness as one of them.

 

[xoxokev]

I don't know much about the gimpability (i made that word up) of Zamus, but when you mentioned Lucas it reminded me of something. I'm sure it can work, but it will be hard to pull off with Ness. When Lucas or another Ness is recovering with PKT, you can try to go out and absorb it with Psi Magnet. I don't know how effective if is for Ness, but I know it works really well when playing as Lucas. But then again, Lucas has more range with his Psi Magnet. Just a thought...

 

[SuSa]

IC's are patheticly easy to gimp if you know how.

The second you see that up-B, hit popo with a weak fair or bair and just go right back on-stage...

It's pathetic....I've been gimped by many smart MK's, smart Ness's, and Smart Marths.

It works, so long as you are close enough when they up-B.

At least a 3/5 (the only 'hard' part is to hit Popo during the belay)

 

[thesage]

You can even legehog them to ensure Nana dies lol.

 

[Gaussis]

Sorry, but there's really no such thing as gimping Zamus unless you actually land your dair.

She has way, way too much happening for her to deserve a 3/5. I would argue that her recovery is better than Lucas's, who has 4/5, even though it's just a matter of intercepting wherever he decides to go to (if you can) or canceling out his PK Thunder one way or another.

There is. You can ledgewhip any tether character when they reel up towards the ledge. All tether characters are vulnerable to this. Once you hit them with the tail of PKT, redirect the head towards them and it will most likely stagespike to their doom. If not, just edgehog them.

Lol. I assume Ness's nightmare is Ness?

 

[kennypu]

Sorry, but there's really no such thing as gimping Zamus unless you actually land your dair.

She has way, way too much happening for her to deserve a 3/5. I would argue that her recovery is better than Lucas's, who has 4/5, even though it's just a matter of intercepting wherever he decides to go to (if you can) or canceling out his PK Thunder one way or another.

I'm probobly wrong but the only way to cancel out lucas's pkt was reflector type moves i thought? this makes it hard to stop his recovery, unless u gimp him during his pkt session, which is scary to most people

 

[Earthbound Zero]

You can Gimp PKT with any move, as long as it doesn't touch Ness or Lucas, but that's very hard to do. ;D

 

[_clinton]

Lol. I assume Ness's nightmare is Ness?

Yes it is...I like it more then things like Ness Dittos/Clones ^_^

I put Lucas doubles as Claus ^_^

 

[ROOOOY!]

Why's Wario 5/5?

I only think that Sonic, Game & Watch, Jigglypuff and Metaknight should be considered basically impossible.

And I'd say Zamus is a 4/5.
Her recovery's actually really good if you know how to use it lol, and it's pretty hard to get intercepted when you're Flip Jumping.

 

[PKNintendo]

Why's Wario 5/5?

I only think that Sonic, Game & Watch, Jigglypuff and Metaknight should be considered basically impossible.

And I'd say Zamus is a 4/5.
Her recovery's actually really good if you know how to use it lol, and it's pretty hard to get intercepted when you're Flip Jumping.

Pretty much.

 

[Uffe]

When I fight Ness', I like to use PK Thunder to gimp their PK Thunder.

 

[Gaussis]

That won't work against me, boi . I like to direct my thunder into their PKT2. It's far more pleasing.

As for ZSS, flip jump is good, but it's rather predictable.

 

[Uffe]

That won't work against me, boi . I like to direct my thunder into their PKT2. It's far more pleasing.

As for ZSS, flip jump is good, but it's rather predictable.

No. I mean when I have the other Ness off the stage and he tries to return. It is tough, but I've done it a few times. I had a video of me doing it, too! My friend who plays as Lucas some times, I used my PK Thunder on his PK Thunder and I didn't even see his PK Thunder because it was off screen and he died. He thought it was amazing, but he didn't like that he died.

 

[_clinton]

Why's Wario 5/5?

Two Words: His bike

I only think that Sonic, Game & Watch, Jigglypuff and Metaknight should be considered basically impossible.

I disagree...

And I'd say Zamus is a 4/5.
Her recovery's actually really good if you know how to use it lol, and it's pretty hard to get intercepted when you're Flip Jumping.

Her recovery's full length horizontal length before the Rope (as in using her 2nd jump (with Up+B), and her leap frog) is the same as Ness using his 2nd jump with his two tools right (Magnet and Fair for example)

Both Ness and Zamus are 3's because before you get them down to using their Rope/PK Thunder...they will be hard to gimp somewhat IMO...

Mkay people...I know about Zamus' recover ok...but just to make sure...tell me what I miss here people...

A. Leap o Fate (What I call her D+B ATM because I feel like it)
1. Can be used only once until you hit the ground
2. Has special "can't touch this" frames for it...works well with...v
3. As an attack off of it that can spike...
4. Has a special footstool jump with it that pumps up her air movement speed by a lot...but overall the horizontal distance gained from that footstool is the same as her normal one...but you lose some vertical height...so that explains it
5. Has a wall jump that is less effective IMO then her normal wall jump...

B. Her 2nd jump
1. Has the same vertical distance as Ness and Lucas' 2nd jumps. However the horizontal distance is lower in it. However her D+B makes up for that
2. Her D+B and this are 2 different moves...which is overall useful...because her moves aren't thrown into one thing...
3. Happens to gain a vertical distance boost when you use the Plasma Wire at the same time...no horizontal though

C. Plasma Wire/Plasma Whip
1. One is used for extra Horizontal reach with a small amount of vertical and is also a kill move, The other is used for Vertical reach and can drag people down with her...so make sure you have ledge frames otherwise you die and unlike Olimar and Ivysaur...Zamus will live (because she doesn't to go into free fall when she uses her ropes)
2. Together they make up the best tether recovery in the game (to bad most of the other characters with ropes have other things with them as well), the blind spots on one of these is made up with the other one...unlike other characters that have only ropes and nothing more...
2. The reach on the Plasma for the ledge is actually a lot greater then the ranges of these attacks (I think the attack range for each is about 2.5 blocks on the Whip (SideB)...but the ledge reach is 4 or so) because of this...Zamus' range is actually the same amount as Ness' full range in recovery...so they both have good range ok people...

Anyhow...Anyone think giving the space animals 4/5 each is too much?

I'm thinking 4/5 is to low for Yoshi as well...sure the range vertically is only 4.5 blocks total...but the horizontal distance of just his 2nd jump alone is the same as Ness' full recovery...

I'm thinking I only have 4/5 because of a foot stool jump...but I don't see that as a good reason...Yoshi can just air dodge after all...

 

[Gaussis]

Put Falco and possibly Wolf at 3/5 and that will be good for now. Fox might need to be lowered, but his reflector helps him too much in stalling.

Yoshi at 4/5 is fine also. Sure he is near-impossible to gimp with his second jump. But he might end up without it once or maybe twice.

 

[_clinton]

Put Falco and possibly Wolf at 3/5 and that will be good for now. Fox might need to be lowered, but his reflector helps him too much in stalling.

The Stalling can be counter productive sometimes IMO (I've faked out some Fox's before with Flash)

But ok...for the other two I guess (they can't stall and they don't have Fox's Fair double jump...Hell...Falco's range is lower then Mario's...and Fair does cut the Illusion as well for the most part...so the only real + is the speed...so that is why it is 3/5 I do want to lower it though...but I'm not doing 1/2 scores ^_^)

Wolf has 3 different cancel times for his Side B...and he darts through the air as well...hell w/o Fox's tools...Wolf actually beats Fox in horizontal range (with them they tie)

Yoshi at 4/5 is fine also. Sure he is near-impossible to gimp with his second jump. But he might end up without it once or maybe twice.

But the thing is...Yoshi would be smart to save the 2nd jump if he needs to recover...I mean...eggs are fun...plus he does dart well through the air...

 

[PMKNG]

I'm sure the whole gimping ness/lucas pkt thing will work if you get close. I know Lucas's is easier to pull off on a ness, but I'm sure it can work the other way around.

Say I, ness, Use it next to Lucas but do not get pkt, I'm sure if I release it and push the Lucas with that wind effect, it probably would throw off Lucas's pkt2.

 

[ROOOOY!]

You're right with the ZSS part. I just think actually going out to gimp her would be pretty dangerous, unless you were doing it with PK Fire or something.
Spacies didn't deserve 4/5 :')
Yoshi does, DJAD + juggernaut armour. It's actually ridiculously hard to gimp him lol.

 

[_clinton]

You're right with the ZSS part. I just think actually going out to gimp her would be pretty dangerous, unless you were doing it with PK Fire or something.
Spacies didn't deserve 4/5 :')
Yoshi does, DJAD + juggernaut armour. It's actually ridiculously hard to gimp him lol.

Pretty dangerous until she has to start using her Ropes...but still IMO I think Ness is more of a threat...

I really want to give Yoshi 5/5...

 

[ViceGrip]

spike goes through yoshi's up B at any percent. he's fairly gimpable and not 4 that reason alone.

 

[_clinton]

spike goes through yoshi's up B at any percent. he's fairly gimpable and not 4 that reason alone.

Most of his gimping problems can be dealt with just air dodging at the right time though in his 2nd jump...

His total height is the same as Mario's...and his horizontal distance for just his 2nd jump alone has the same reach as Ness' full recovery...and using his eggs right just adds more to it (about 2x the range)

 

[ViceGrip]

Yea true, Yoshi is actually probably just as gimpable as any other character. although it's pretty sad that a footstool = death lol. I just know I get slightly more gimps than average when playing yoshi's. Imo other gimpable characters by ness are ike, luigi, gannon, falcon, ness, lucas, falco, and both links.

 

[_clinton]

But the footstool = death thing can be avoided by just using an air dodge...in fact most of Ness' problems can be dealt with using 4 things as well...

PSI Magnet (Stalling FTW + you can change your location by a bit)
Fair (Sexy as all hell with the 2nd jump), or Dair if you feel somewhat gutsy...
PK Fire/PK Jump
Air Dodge

and when hanging from the ledge...Ness has other tricks as well...
PK Quick Thunder (unless you suck at it like me and SD yourself ^_^)
Drop and Fair that 2nd Jump again

 

[Brinzy]

Clinton, I still do not understand why Ness and ZSS should be even.

ZSS's recovery >>>> Ness's. Both can kill, which is one of Ness's perks to his recovery... but other than that, ZSS is beating him by having two long-ranged tethers and having her down B plus a quicker double-jump (and invincibility frames that have a meteor kick, too). Ness's PKT can be intercepted just by touching the head, while ZSS's tether only fails when someone is hogging the edge. If Ness's PKT2 does hit something, the distance gets cut. That sucks.

Ness vs. Ness... swat it, hit it with thunder, or absorb it. Dair Ness while he's using it or nair him farther away. Hit him with a PK attack while he's coming back. If this is 3/5, then I really, really can't see why ZSS is also 3/4, who benefits if someone wants to try and mess wtih her Up B, has a much better Down B for recovery and two tethers. Ledgewhipping isn't even all that effective vs. her. When is she ever going to get the ledge and hang there long enough for PKT to hit her? She should be able to start pulling herself up very soon after grabbing the ledge. Not to mention, if Ness is using PKT... he's not on the ledge, so there goes edgehogging.

I can't see why this is evenly difficult.

 

[_clinton]

Clinton, I still do not understand why Ness and ZSS should be even.

Lol...because I said so ()...but anyway...going on...

ZSS's recovery >>>> Ness's.

Meh...it's more like Zamus' Recovery > Ness' Recovery...I'm aware that Zamus' is better overall...but I don't really see it being by that much...

Both can kill, which is one of Ness's perks to his recovery... but other than that, ZSS is beating him by having two long-ranged tethers and having her down B plus a quicker double-jump (and invincibility frames that have a meteor kick, too)."

The long range ropes you are talking about actually have about the same distance as Ness' full PKT2 when it comes to recovery...I mean...really calling them 2 moves is sort of misleading when they are meant to do one thing together: that Ness' recovery move does as whole as well...and even then I feel they may have issues (compared to other ropes...they are great though...the other rope recoveries don't go up or to the side...they go at a 70% angle...it pretty much makes them miss the ledge if they aren't away from it or below it...but in Zamus' case...I feel that is where her blind spot is...the 10% blind spot doesn't really compare to a 50% blind spot though...so yeah...)

Just in case there is some confusion for what I just said...

Olimar/Ivysaur
Open
/
Blind Spot
|
_

Zamus
Open
|_
Blind Spot
/

The Quicker 2nd jump doesn't matter to me when I have something like Fair...or just an air dodge...and again...Ness' single double jump when using his Fair in it and Magnet right...does tie in horizontal range with Zamus' 2nd jump and DSpecial...of course...if you really think Ness' speed is an issue...you could try to throw PK Jump in...as long as you aren't in danger from falling of course (as in close enough to the stage that a mess up won't suck)...

Ness's PKT can be intercepted just by touching the head, while ZSS's tether only fails when someone is hogging the edge. If Ness's PKT2 does hit something, the distance gets cut. That sucks.

Touching the head...you mean the thing that is only 1/6th of the full move?
And the distance drop is really based off where Ness hits in the move...still at the most, the distance cut will still equal to Mario's full range of 4 in the vertical test I made (in that Ness' range for recovery really is 3 (double jump only) to 4-6 (cut PKT2 at the low range/non cut PKT2))...

And you forgot about the fact that Rope Recoveries can only work 3 times before you have to hit solid ground again to recharge it...but whatever...it really isn't much of an issue...

Ness vs. Ness... swat it, hit it with thunder, or absorb it. Dair Ness while he's using it or nair him farther away.

I'm aware that Ness is open when he has to use his thunder...however until then he is sort of hard to mess with...which is why I gave him that 3/5...

When is she ever going to get the ledge and hang there long enough for PKT to hit her? She should be able to start pulling herself up very soon after grabbing the ledge.

The point was that the tail was going to hit her right away...and lead into a PKT stage spike...not her hanging there being open to Thunder...

Not to mention, if Ness is using PKT... he's not on the ledge, so there goes edgehogging.

Goodbye edgehogging chance...hello split chance opening to Bair stage spike/Pillar Spike...

But whatever...if I made it 3.5/5 for Zamus would that work better for you?

It would mean that she isn't open that much when coming back, and she...while her rope can be screwed with...it still isn't as easy as some other things...

BTW Fun fact...while Ness and Zamus tie in max horizontal range...they also tie in max vertical range (unless Zamus gets a wall jump off...then she can beat Ness in that...

However she has to use the wall jump from her 2nd jump...not the Dspecial one...the lag on that is enough to remove any vertical range given (unless you actually hit the stage of course) and any action just adds to the stun time in this case...however the Wall jump from her 2nd jump lets her make any action she wants w/o much issue (Plus the 2nd jumps range is just great as well if you need the wall)

 

[AndrewCarlson]

Pit is definitely not 3/5. His recovery is not dependant on his Up-B and mostly revolves around his glide, which you'll have a hard time gimping. He has 3 mid-air jumps in addition to the glide, so it's nearly impossible to gimp a good Pit. Should he need to use his Up-B, it's also flexible enough to maneuver back to the stage easily out of danger since it has great aerial mobility.

 

[_clinton]

Pit is definitely not 3/5. His recovery is not dependant on his Up-B and mostly revolves around his glide, which you'll have a hard time gimping. He has 3 mid-air jumps in addition to the glide, so it's nearly impossible to gimp a good Pit. Should he need to use his Up-B, it's also flexible enough to maneuver back to the stage easily out of danger since it has great aerial mobility.

Is his WoI as mobile as PKT? Which btw can mess with the glide as well if you aren't careful...still again...3/5 just means that they can be pretty hard to gimp but they do have openings overall...IMO

 

[AndrewCarlson]

Is his WoI as mobile as PKT? Which btw can mess with the glide as well if you aren't careful...still again...3/5 just means that they can be pretty hard to gimp but they do have openings overall...IMO

It's more mobile than PK Thunder. And it moves a lot faster and easier than ROB's Up-B, which you have listed as 4/5. Take into account Pit's extra mid-air jumps, an excellent mid-air shield for blocking both physical attacks (which would actually reverse Ness in mid-air and potentially give Pit an opening to retaliate) and reflecting projectiles, and his fast glide (faster than Meta Knight's) and you have one of the hardest recoveries to gimp overall. I believe it should be 5/5, since his recovery is just behind Meta Knight's in terms of safety. All in all, projectile gimping is ineffective while using physical attacks are too risky.

 

[PKSkyler]

gimping ganon with the pkt tail is very fun. lead them under the stage a bit then hit them with the head. stagespike

Should he need to use his Up-B, it's also flexible enough to maneuver back to the stage easily out of danger since it has great aerial mobility.

PKT is quick enough to tail whip pits up b or just hit him with the head. once hit hes got no more up b and hes screwed unless hes close to the stage. Sure his other jumps might be hard to gimp but i dont see how wings of icarus is hard to gimp especially vs Ness whos got a quick projectile that can be controlled.

 

[_clinton]

It's more mobile than PK Thunder. And it moves a lot faster and easier than ROB's Up-B, which you have listed as 4/5.

Sir...you are aware that getting the most out of ROB's USpecial requires that you don't blow away his fuel...in fact getting the most out of it happens when you keep pressing B...but you also have other things with ROB...like its Bair, Top, Laser...and so on...

What I'm saying is...ROB's Uspecial sort of beats Pit's Uspecial in everything total overall...in fact I think I have ROB at 4/5 only because you can't air dodge during his Uspecial...but really now...Pit's Uspecial sort of is a last resort anyway...

Take into account Pit's extra mid-air jumps, an excellent mid-air shield for blocking both physical attacks (which would actually reverse Ness in mid-air and potentially give Pit an opening to retaliate) and reflecting projectiles,

His Mid-air shield isn't much use vs. PKT's tail...but whatever

and his fast glide (faster than Meta Knight's)

Glides aren't much of an issue for Ness really IMO

All in all, projectile gimping is ineffective while using physical attacks are too risky.

Projectile Gimping isn't ineffective...PKT is the 2nd best weapon for gimping Pit's Uspecial in the game...and I feel it also sort of messes with his glide somewhat...hell even PK Flash can be ok for mindgames...

Overall I guess I could go 4/5 though...

 

[AndrewCarlson]

gimping ganon with the pkt tail is very fun. lead them under the stage a bit then hit them with the head. stagespike



PKT is quick enough to tail whip pits up b or just hit him with the head. once hit hes got no more up b and hes screwed unless hes close to the stage. Sure his other jumps might be hard to gimp but i dont see how wings of icarus is hard to gimp especially vs Ness whos got a quick projectile that can be controlled.

Unless Ness starts the PK Thunder before Pit activates Up-B, he's not going to hit him if the Pit knows what he's doing. And keep in mind that Pit's Up-B is usually saved for a last resort such as after using all jumps for edgeguarding. When recovering, it's mostly just the glide and multiple jumps. He's not going to use Wings of Icarus within easy reach of Ness' projectiles. Instead, he'll be using it from a safe distance so that he can easily outmaneuver them. If he's close enough to be hit by Ness' projectiles, he's more than capable of recovering without his Up-B or even the glide.

 

[_clinton]

Unless Ness starts the PK Thunder before Pit activates Up-B, he's not going to hit him if the Pit knows what he's doing.

How? PKT travels faster then the WoI's movement and I really don't see how you think Thunder is harder to control...

And keep in mind that Pit's Up-B is usually saved for a last resort such as after using all jumps for edgeguarding.

I think I've said it like 3 times now that Pit's UpB is used as a last resort...just putting that out in case you didn't read that...I'm funny that way...

He's not going to use Wings of Icarus within easy reach of Ness' projectiles. Instead, he'll be using it from a safe distance so that he can easily outmaneuver them.

How is he going to out maneuver it when it travels faster then his thing and also happens to be 3x longer or so compared to Pit?

I mean you are aware that I changed him to 4/5 because of his Glide, 3 jumps, Shield, arrows (although they aren't much of an issue for Ness), and the fact that his WoI have a wind effect that can cancel PKT if it is coming when they are out (which pretty much means I don't have to throw out Thunder until Pit starts the move), right?

 

[AndrewCarlson]

Sorry, I did not see that you changed it to 4/5. Thank you for at least hearing what I had to say. I did not mean to come off as a stubborn person by any means.

 

[_clinton]

Sorry, I did not see that you changed it to 4/5. Thank you for at least hearing what I had to say. I did not mean to come off as a stubborn person by any means.

I didn't see you as a stubborn person...I changed it to 4/5 because I felt it was to low as well overall (yes even though it was my list, I did miss it when I made it)

Pit has more range then a lot of characters for his recovery (his 2nd jumps by themselves w/o the glide get him to the same range as Ness' 2nd jump using his Fair and Magnet right (actually just a bit more really...yeah) horizontally...however they beat Ness' 2nd jump in vertical height)...and pretty good defense as well (about the same as Mario's really)...it is his Uspecial that is keeping him at 4/5

So what I'm saying is...

1. 2nd jumps total range horizontally is able to beat Ness' horizontal range by a hair...and for vertical range though...it beats his by a whole level...so...think Ness' range again...just spread out into 3 moves instead of 1 BIG one and also gets a bit more range...
2. However Pit can also glide...if he needs to...

1. Pit has arrows and even though he may not want to fire them at an unopen Ness...he still has them...
2. He also has a shield...and the shield can be compared to Mario's cape IMO pretty well...
3. Pit's Uair allows him to come in pretty well...think Ness' Fair almost...just aimed up with a smaller hitbox and isn't a full body cover...btw Pit does have one with his Nair...still not as much as Ness...but still there...so his airs can cover him all right pretty much...don't know how Pit's Uair will do vs. Ness' Dair though (he may just want to avoid that...but guess what...he can)

 

[deepseadiva]

Aww, I thought this was going to be some kind of guide showing us examples of how to deal with each characters recovery methods.

Numbers are nice I guess...

 

[_clinton]

Aww, I thought this was going to be some kind of guide showing us examples of how to deal with each characters recovery methods.

Numbers are nice I guess...

I'd rather talk about characters 1st...

Still...for characters like Diddy...PK Thunder is **** on his Jetpack for one thing...

Anyway...

You have a guide for Peach...so...what do you think of the 3/5 score?

I'm thinking it could be higher...but there are some things standing in the way of it...so...I'd like some input I guess...

There are a few things I don't really agree with myself on this list as well...(I don't think MK is ungimpable for one thing) I sort of just lied about a few of the scores overall ok...

 

[deepseadiva]

You have a guide for Peach...so...what do you think of the 3/5 score?

I never wrote a guide...

But, I'd say the 3 is kinda low. Maybe the Thunder could mess with her horizontal float recovery, and the dair could hit through the parasol occasionally, but I think Peach has too many options to get that low a score.

Her options on paper, and in order and with uses, would be:

float (distance and stalling)
forward b (distance and offensive)
toad (stalling and defensive)
up b (distance and offensive)

Peach can usually nair projectiles if they target her during her float, forward b will stage spike if you're holding the ledge for some crazy reason, toad for some coverage and that tiny air hop, and the up comes out fast enough to sweetspot away from a dair, or even hit it during its startup lag.

Not to mention if your holding the ledge after the upb, the parasol is still a constant hitbox and Ness and Peach would trade places on the ledge.

4 sounds decent.