A list of every move that ground locks

[altairian]

It seems like you need to clarify what you mean by "this move jab locks". You're saying that it doesn't necessarily force them to stand, but it locks them, but it doesn't necessarily lock them for long...which is highly confusing. I know this is a work in progress but perhaps you could create some categories and list what moves fit in which category (x move force stands, y move can initiate a jab lock, something like that?)

 

[saviorslegacy]

Toon Link's Dtilt locks?

yep

Ike's Fair locks?

That thing has way too much knockback to lock. Same with the rest of his moves. None of his moves have a "weak" hit on them like G&W's fair or Falcon's Bair. And he doesn't have anything that knocks the opponent at the right angle to lock.

It does jab lock.
While knock back plays a part it does not say what jab locks and what doesn't.

None of the moves you listed for Zelda can jab lock

For bair and fair, you can hit them once for the bounce animation, but the second time you trie the lock cant continue >.< And her jab reaches too high in some cases, and has too much knockback usually.

All of what I listed locks.

It seems like you need to clarify what you mean by "this move jab locks". You're saying that it doesn't necessarily force them to stand, but it locks them, but it doesn't necessarily lock them for long...which is highly confusing. I know this is a work in progress but perhaps you could create some categories and list what moves fit in which category (x move force stands, y move can initiate a jab lock, something like that?)

k, jab locks= making a foe bouncy on the ground when struck with an attack allowing you to either tech chase (if the move has to much lag), finish with a strong move or continue a jab lock combo by using another jab lock.

ps Just fyi, this is what makes a moves jab lock.
If you attack someone and they just slide. If they perform a landing animation then it doesn't jab lock. I perfect example is Ike's jab. Notice how they go into a landing animation? Now use his Fair. They will take a good ammount of damage, but they will slide.
Now once the foe gains in percent certain moves start to make them have that landing animation.


Every jab lock move has the ability to force a get up. SOme can just like auto do it. Others jab lock normally and allow rolling, but if you attack a foe with a jab lock on a certain frame then you can force a get up.

 

[Ugg]

Oops, I got ahead of myself.

Calling it "force get up" is not legit. Because that name implies that when you perform this you make them stand, which is not true. I can use over half of the moves that jab lock and not force a get up unless I want to.
Calling it "jab lock" works since everyone knows what it is. If anything else it deserves a new name such as "Terra Lock" (terra meaning earth, aka the ground, so it would be called the ground lock... but cooler).

Well, put it like this.

Every move that, as you call it "jab locks" also forces a get up. That's why they do that bouncing animation. After the bouncing animation, they get up. It ALWAYS happens. The only reason that they're not getting up is because you're hitting them again before they can get up, forcing another bouncing animation, which is why it's a lock.

 

[saviorslegacy]

Well, put it like this.

Every move that, as you call it "jab locks" also forces a get up. That's why they do that bouncing animation. After the bouncing animation, they get up. It ALWAYS happens. The only reason that they're not getting up is because you're hitting them again before they can get up, forcing another bouncing animation, which is why it's a lock.

Yes, every move that jab locks also forces a get up.

No, it does not always happen. They either have to be attacked by a strong jab lock attack or they have to be struck on a certain landing frame.
I posted a video above that proved this.

This is partly true. While most jabs hit them fast enough that you hit that frame, if you stop the first time they will stand up cuz you have not struck that frame yet (unless you get it the first time).



I am starting to think a jab lock is an unintended program. There is an untechible frame where they can be jab locked. When this frame is struck and you stop the jab lock it forces a get up. I believe that sliding attacks glitch the game making them repeat the landing animation.
I say this cuz the untechible frame can be struck during a jab lock. Meaning it is registering a landing.

That and Sakurai wanted to make a game that everyone can be good at and jab lock combo's kinda destroy his goal (even though they are hard to perform).

 

[Ugg]

Yes, every move that jab locks also forces a get up.

No, it does not always happen. They either have to be attacked by a strong jab lock attack or they have to be struck on a certain landing frame.
I posted a video above that proved this.

This is partly true. While most jabs hit them fast enough that you hit that frame, if you stop the first time they will stand up cuz you have not struck that frame yet (unless you get it the first time).



I am starting to think a jab lock is an unintended program. There is an untechible frame where they can be jab locked. When this frame is struck and you stop the jab lock it forces a get up. I believe that sliding attacks glitch the game making them repeat the landing animation.
I say this cuz the untechible frame can be struck during a jab lock. Meaning it is registering a landing.

That and Sakurai wanted to make a game that everyone can be good at and jab lock combo's kinda destroy his goal (even though they are hard to perform).

..

In the same post, you just said that they always force a get-up, while at the same time, they don't always force a get-up.

It's like talking to a wall.

 

[altairian]

I think what he meant was that if you hit them too late, it won't force them to stand. It's not the move that's forcing them to stand, it's when they get hit.

 

[Ugg]

I think what he meant was that if you hit them too late, it won't force them to stand. It's not the move that's forcing them to stand, it's when they get hit.

.. No, it IS the move. Some moves don't force get-ups at all.

 

[altairian]

Because they knock the person in the air, yeah I get that

buuuut...if you watch his video, if you hit too late with a jab, it won't force them to stand. There isn't a magical move that always forces a get-up, it's caused by hitting with a low knockback move during a certain period of time while they're falling.

 

[zeldspazz]

k, jab locks= making a foe bouncy on the ground when struck with an attack allowing you to either tech chase (if the move has to much lag), finish with a strong move or continue a jab lock combo by using another jab lock.

I believe that is incorrect. A jab lock is when you hit a character with a move that causes that bouncing animation while they are on the ground, and you can keep using that same move without being able to escape. Its not a jab lock if you make them bounce, and then follow up with another move, or tech chase. The former is a combo, and the latter is simply a tech chase. If what you are saying is true, then Mr. Game and Watch's d-throw would also be considered a "jab lock", would it not? And you are wrong. None of Zelda's moves you listed can jab lock. Ive already listed why, but if you insist to argue thats not my problem.

 

[AfroTwist ShadowPie]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e291cu7khzE
Lrn2jab-lock, scrub.

 

[Ugg]

Because they knock the person in the air, yeah I get that

buuuut...if you watch his video, if you hit too late with a jab, it won't force them to stand. There isn't a magical move that always forces a get-up, it's caused by hitting with a low knockback move during a certain period of time while they're falling.

I know that. That should be common sense. They can't be laying down for too long. No one SHOULD be laying down for that long, anyway.

 

[Sosuke]

I still don't think TL's Dtilt jab locks. =/

I can't test is since I'm at work, but would anyone be so kind as to do it for me? =)

 

[saviorslegacy]

..

In the same post, you just said that they always force a get-up, while at the same time, they don't always force a get-up.

It's like talking to a wall.

vvvvvvvvvvv

I think what he meant was that if you hit them too late, it won't force them to stand. It's not the move that's forcing them to stand, it's when they get hit.

yep..
There are some moves that due force a get up no matter what. There aren't many though.

.. No, it IS the move. Some moves don't force get-ups at all.

exactly

Because they knock the person in the air, yeah I get that

buuuut...if you watch his video, if you hit too late with a jab, it won't force them to stand. There isn't a magical move that always forces a get-up, it's caused by hitting with a low knockback move during a certain period of time while they're falling.

There are some moves that force a get up. ie CF's Bair

Wellllll.... not exactly. No matter what the knock back is, if they slide on the ground when they are hit it will jab lock no matter what. Thing is, most moves gain knock back that makes them leave the ground.
A perfect example is that Ike's Fair jab locks, even though it has high knock back.
As the foe climb's in percentage though, they leave the ground and thus it doesn't lock.

Yep, they need to be attacked on a certain landing frame.

I believe that is incorrect. A jab lock is when you hit a character with a move that causes that bouncing animation while they are on the ground, and you can keep using that same move without being able to escape. Its not a jab lock if you make them bounce, and then follow up with another move, or tech chase. The former is a combo, and the latter is simply a tech chase. If what you are saying is true, then Mr. Game and Watch's d-throw would also be considered a "jab lock", would it not? And you are wrong. None of Zelda's moves you listed can jab lock. Ive already listed why, but if you insist to argue thats not my problem.

No, it was just confusing.

A jab lock simply means making them bounce on the ground allowing a follow up.
If you hit them with lets say Zelda's Fair and you have landing lag then they can roll before you can follow up. Thus it is a tech chase.

If you use an auto cancled sex kick and you have a jab that jab locks you can land locking and the continue locking until there is no more stage.

You cannot grab a person that has just been locked.

Test those Zelda moves then. If push comes to shove I'll upload a vid showing all of the moves that I have said jab lock that others say I am wrong.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e291cu7khzE
Lrn2jab-lock, scrub.

Boomerang> jab lock= not legit.. they can roll

I still don't think TL's Dtilt jab locks. =/

I can't test is since I'm at work, but would anyone be so kind as to do it for me? =)

If they slide it locks.

I already tested it for you. <,<

 

[Brinzy]

A lock is, for the sake of this thread, when you can hold someone in a string of attacks and there's not much they can do about it. Locks typically have to, you know, lock the character in something that goes on until the locking character ends it or the character getting locked SDIs it.

Zelda's dtilt is a lock at certain percentages because the only thing the opponent can do is SDI. Zelda's jab, fair, and bair cause a certain animation similar to your typical jab lock at a certain percentage, but there is no way you can keep your opponent in this "locked" state with Zelda because she cannot continue this unless they sit there and let her. Therefore, they are not locks; they are strings, and extremely poor ones at that. This is worthless to know even further because no Zelda is going to decay one of the strongest killing moves in the game (their strongest killing move at that) and string it together for a grand total of something that's worth far less than actually sweetspotting the kick, landing and using dtilt for a real lock, or pretty much doing everything else but this crap.

I appreciate your adamant personality when it comes to trying to find something that's gamebreaking, but stop throwing out bull**** every month.

If you hit them with lets say Zelda's Fair and you have landing lag then they can roll before you can follow up. Thus it is a tech chase.

Fair landing lag extends far more than whatever weakass thing she just did to her opponent. There's no tech chase here because she doesn't have the frame advantage to do anything.

None of this works. I don't even have to test this because I know off the top of my head that in the very unlikely situations where she's gonna have a grounded opponent and she's gonna fall and sourspot a lightning kick, she doesn't have the frame advantage to do anything afterwards. Even if these moves "lock", Zelda cannot apply them at all without outside assistance. Therefore, anything about Zelda in this thread is worthless for the character.

 

['V']

You should probably change this to "Moves that create forced get-ups" or something like that, cuz I'm pretty sure a "jab"-lock means that a person has to "jab" the other person repeatedly in their hitting-the-ground animation, thus resulting in a "lock" in which they bounce.

You should also specify which moves are required to be unsweetspotted/not tipped.

 

[zeldspazz]

A jab lock simply means making them bounce on the ground allowing a follow up.

Jab-->bouncing animation--->[insert move here] is not a lock kind sir.

 

[saviorslegacy]

A lock is, for the sake of this thread, when you can hold someone in a string of attacks and there's not much they can do about it. Locks typically have to, you know, lock the character in something that goes on until the locking character ends it or the character getting locked SDIs it.

Zelda's dtilt is a lock at certain percentages because the only thing the opponent can do is SDI. Zelda's jab, fair, and bair cause a certain animation similar to your typical jab lock at a certain percentage, but there is no way you can keep your opponent in this "locked" state with Zelda because she cannot continue this unless they sit there and let her. Therefore, they are not locks; they are strings, and extremely poor ones at that. This is worthless to know even further because no Zelda is going to decay one of the strongest killing moves in the game (their strongest killing move at that) and string it together for a grand total of something that's worth far less than actually sweetspotting the kick, landing and using dtilt for a real lock, or pretty much doing everything else but this crap.

I appreciate your adamant personality when it comes to trying to find something that's gamebreaking, but stop throwing out bull**** every month.



Fair landing lag extends far more than whatever weakass thing she just did to her opponent. There's no tech chase here because she doesn't have the frame advantage to do anything.

None of this works. I don't even have to test this because I know off the top of my head that in the very unlikely situations where she's gonna have a grounded opponent and she's gonna fall and sourspot a lightning kick, she doesn't have the frame advantage to do anything afterwards. Even if these moves "lock", Zelda cannot apply them at all without outside assistance. Therefore, anything about Zelda in this thread is worthless for the character.

I can't use force get up cuz that is also incorrect. There really isn't a set name.

I didn't throw anything out! Je wiz, what's ya problem? This is a LIST, not a combo.
And I have never claimed to find anything game breaking. In fact I have claimed the opposite.
I have probably said this at least ten time now or better but I guess I'll repeat it again.

"I don't have anyone to test with." I usually think of combo's from real life situations/movies or such (influences outside of Brawl). I then try and figure out how this idea can be used and I mold it and such until I find a character that can perform it. Half of the time what I end up with is nothing like what I started with.
I then bring what I found to a character board for them to test. From there someone tests with a buddy and flames me for it not being true. Other people jump in on this saying that I am BS for posting a fail combo and I flame back cuz I got pissed cuz I tried to help and I get thanked with flame. (See the logic you people make?) Smae logic is cutting your fingers because they put food in your mouth. -_-

That tech chase made no sense.
"I have lag and they rolled while I got out of lag but I can't follow up cuz I have no stun now and they are in the middle of a roll."

Yeah well the Ivysaur mains didn't benefit either. Sorry if your character isn't good in this catagory, but I'm not here to list usefullness, I am here to simply list attacks that can jab lock.

You should probably change this to "Moves that create forced get-ups" or something like that, cuz I'm pretty sure a "jab"-lock means that a person has to "jab" the other person repeatedly in their hitting-the-ground animation, thus resulting in a "lock" in which they bounce.

You should also specify which moves are required to be unsweetspotted/not tipped.

Like I said, that doesn't work. Cuz most of what I listed doesn't force a get unless they are struck on a special frame.
Read some of what is in the boards. You will see people refer to sex kicks as jab locks or other attacks as jab locks. This is because everyone knows what a jab lock is.

I am working when I can. I have a life to tend too before this thread (and the video's.. and the other threads... and the testing).

:EDIT:

Jab-->bouncing animation--->[insert move here] is not a lock kind sir.

I have explained myself more than enough times.



(@ everyone)
Since you all are so smarty than me you name it. It is not a force get up and it is not a lock. If you do not give me a name that means "bounce on the ground when you are on your from an attack that usually makes you slide" then I want you all to lay off the name.
Does it really matter what it is called? I mean there is a combo that is called "Ken Combo". Well that is stupid.
Next thing you know we're gonna have the "Fred Combo", "Rick Combo", "Dave Combo" or "Rachael Combo".

Y'all are like term Nazi's or somethin. <.<

 

['V']

*Sigh* Well good research anyway. Regardless of what it actually is.

 

[zeldspazz]

(@ everyone)
Since you all are so smarty than me you name it. It is not a force get up and it is not a lock. If you do not give me a name that means "bounce on the ground when you are on your from an attack that usually makes you slide" then I want you all to lay off the name.
Does it really matter what it is called? I mean there is a combo that is called "Ken Combo". Well that is stupid.
Next thing you know we're gonna have the "Fred Combo", "Rick Combo", "Dave Combo" or "Rachael Combo".

Y'all are like term Nazi's or somethin. <.<

It's not that information is wrong, it's that people clicking on this thread will be looking for the AT that is specified as a "jab lock". Your information is not prividing that. Since it seems you're making this list and you're providing us with this lovely information why don't you find a name that isn't currently being used for something else, and present us with an explaination for what the new name suggest. Again though, you can't call it a lock or any other term that is currently being used, since then people reading this thread will be mislead by the information.

It's simple:

Jab lock = not what you researched
Your research = make a new name

 

[saviorslegacy]

It's not that information is wrong, it's that people clicking on this thread will be looking for the AT that is specified as a "jab lock". Your information is not prividing that. Since it seems you're making this list and you're providing us with this lovely information why don't you find a name that isn't currently being used for something else, and present us with an explaination for what the new name suggest. Again though, you can't call it a lock or any other term that is currently being used, since then people reading this thread will be mislead by the information.

It's simple:

Jab lock = not what you researched
Your research = make a new name

Haha, I like you! You don't respond in flame.

I know, it is a communication problem.


k, my vote is for "terra belly flop".

 

[zeldspazz]

Haha, I like you! You don't respond in flame.

I know, it is a communication problem.


k, my vote is for "terra belly flop".

Thank you, I like when people like me

And, since it seems to be your information, use whatever name you'd like. As you already stated, there are plenty of other "stupid" names for combos and ATs already

Once the communication problem gets out of the way, Im sure this thread has the potential to take off. Good Luck

 

[saviorslegacy]

Alright, I have a name to throw out there:
Causa (Latin for ground) Flop
Basically it is a fancy way of saying "ground flop". Which is what they are doing. Well... Bowser looks like he is humping the ground sometimes but that is not the point.

 

[zeldspazz]

Alright, I have a name to throw out there:
Causa (Latin for ground) Flop
Basically it is a fancy way of saying "ground flop". Which is what they are doing. Well... Bowser looks like he is humping the ground sometimes but that is not the point.

Here is my suggestion. This is just so we dont start flamewars and this gets locked, because you obviously put lots of research into it:

Make a video example of this (just a short, maybe 1min video)
Post in a Q&A thread, asking if there is a term for this AT (maybe describe it too for clarification)
If there isn't, then its a free-for-all, naming fest for you


That way, you don't make a name for it, to later find out (along with a wall of flame posts) that there is already a name for it. Just my suggestion

 

[saviorslegacy]

Here is my suggestion. This is just so we dont start flamewars and this gets locked, because you obviously put lots of research into it:

Make a video example of this (just a short, maybe 1min video)
Post in a Q&A thread, asking if there is a term for this AT (maybe describe it too for clarification)
If there isn't, then its a free-for-all, naming fest for you


That way, you don't make a name for it, to later find out (along with a wall of flame posts) that there is already a name for it. Just my suggestion

I am almost 100% positive that it has only been named and renamed the attack + lock.
(Laser Lock, Nair Lock, Jab Lock)

Good idea though.....

 

[SuSa]

You know... force getup or just plain out ground lock (why be so fancy? You know.... not everyone knows what crap means. Keep it simple. :|

 

['V']

That's what I suggested before...

=[

 

[SuSa]

I actually think I suggested it before you.

 

[saviorslegacy]

You know... force getup or just plain out ground lock (why be so fancy? You know.... not everyone knows what crap means. Keep it simple. :|

Cuz it is as correct as jab lock.
Causa is not fancy. This giant acronym DACUS is.
(I sure hope you didn't think flop was fancy.......) lol

I actually think I suggested it before you.

correct

 

[Crizthakidd]

all these moves just have to jab lock once right? cuz with mk anyone get can up after the second hits of jabs, ftilit,dtilit

 

[saviorslegacy]

all these moves just have to jab lock once right? cuz with mk anyone get can up after the second hits of jabs, ftilit,dtilit

Jab is incorrect. The entire jab, jab locks and since it hits so fast it forces a get up.

You can cancel the rest of those that you listed so you can just hit with the first move.. that happens to jab lock.

 

[SuSa]

Jab lock is 100% incorrect except for the jabs you have listed.

DACUS stands for Dash Attack Canceled Up Smash (None of which is some fancy word for something simple)

Causa/Terra and all this crap are just fancy words for ground/earth. How about you just say "ground lock" which would then be 100% correct for what you are doing. Locking them on the ground.

 

[saviorslegacy]

Jab lock is 100% incorrect except for the jabs you have listed.

DACUS stands for Dash Attack Canceled Up Smash (None of which is some fancy word for something simple)

Causa/Terra and all this crap are just fancy words for ground/earth. How about you just say "ground lock" which would then be 100% correct for what you are doing. Locking them on the ground.

I am calling it ground lock. <,<
I just love Latin since it is the heart of many languages.

 

[altairian]

If you edit the thread title people will probably stop *****ing

 

[saviorslegacy]

If you edit the thread title people will probably stop *****ing

I would have done it sooner but I has 6 hours of class's (college). @-@
This is a little overwhelming for a 17 year old. Owell... I guess I'll get used to it same as high school.
Any tips from you who are experienced (off topic yes... but I'm not breaking any rules SWF).

 

[Zankoku]

Dude, saviors, chill. Nobody's out to get you. You just reply in a way that gets people irritated when you disagree with them, because you say it in a way that sounds like you actually aren't even listening to them.
Everyone else who got annoyed with saviors, chill. He really likes finding stuff, and posting it. I'm still fairly dubious about his testing methods, but what can you do about it? Not like you can ask him to stop finding (or "finding") new stuff (well, you can, but it won't do much).

As for other stuff:
- Locks imply a guaranteed followup. As in, you land a hit, they go into the bounce animation, and you can land another hit (probably with the same attack as the previous) etc. for a "loop," or as the Smash community terms it, a "lock." There do indeed exist attacks that do not give guaranteed followup but still cause the bounce animation. Or other things. The thing to notice here is that it is not actually "locking" the opponent, but simply hitting him. If you are familiar with the Thunders' Combo from Melee (waveshine a character that falls to the Shine, jab, punish forced wakeup with falling uair), you'll notice that it was never termed with anything close to "loop" or "lock," because though it gives a very good followup (Melee Fox uair is really **** strong), there are exactly zero things you can do after the jab that will force the opponent to stay there on the ground indefinitely. Same applies here.
- Terms and names usually come from the community. While the creator of any discovered tech or behaviors can suggest things, what will actually be used will always be decided by the 1000+ people who actually play the game and use this stuff regularly. That said, trying to come up with fancy, non-English names just because "it looks good" will probably not catch on when there is something more functional to use.
- Reading through this thread has made me realize just how little the behaviors of OTG characters has been documented (hell, OTG is just a term for a fallen character from some other fighter. I'm not exactly sure what people call it in Smash. Unteched? Fallen?). Someone will probably have to get on that eventually.

 

[saviorslegacy]

Dude, saviors, chill. Nobody's out to get you. You just reply in a way that gets people irritated when you disagree with them, because you say it in a way that sounds like you actually aren't even listening to them.
Everyone else who got annoyed with saviors, chill. He really likes finding stuff, and posting it. I'm still fairly dubious about his testing methods, but what can you do about it? Not like you can ask him to stop finding (or "finding") new stuff (well, you can, but it won't do much).

As for other stuff:
- Locks imply a guaranteed followup. As in, you land a hit, they go into the bounce animation, and you can land another hit (probably with the same attack as the previous) etc. for a "loop," or as the Smash community terms it, a "lock." There do indeed exist attacks that do not give guaranteed followup but still cause the bounce animation. Or other things. The thing to notice here is that it is not actually "locking" the opponent, but simply hitting him. If you are familiar with the Thunders' Combo from Melee (waveshine a character that falls to the Shine, jab, punish forced wakeup with falling uair), you'll notice that it was never termed with anything close to "loop" or "lock," because though it gives a very good followup (Melee Fox uair is really **** strong), there are exactly zero things you can do after the jab that will force the opponent to stay there on the ground indefinitely. Same applies here.
- Terms and names usually come from the community. While the creator of any discovered tech or behaviors can suggest things, what will actually be used will always be decided by the 1000+ people who actually play the game and use this stuff regularly. That said, trying to come up with fancy, non-English names just because "it looks good" will probably not catch on when there is something more functional to use.
- Reading through this thread has made me realize just how little the behaviors of OTG characters has been documented (hell, OTG is just a term for a fallen character from some other fighter. I'm not exactly sure what people call it in Smash. Unteched? Fallen?). Someone will probably have to get on that eventually.

O-o ... did Ankoku just deffend me?.......

Which is why I kept on trying to avoid a new name. Jab lock has already become accepted.
Wait.. what do you mean that not much has been looked into OTG?
What else is there to do now?

ps I lol'd when I found this out.
If someone is on the movinf platform at SV and they shield at the edge that is moving to that direction (ie right ledge + moving right or left edge + moving left) and you make them do a tumble fall by them using sheild. You will cause them to tumble onto the moving platfrom. lol
Like a footstool without you moving.

 

[Weruop]

pretty sure u missed oli dair (sourspot)

 

[saviorslegacy]

pretty sure u missed oli dair (sourspot)

It might ground lock. I dunno though. (I'm away from my Wii.)

I have had trouble with every Dair. It just makes them turn around and stand up.

 

[Ugg]

I actually think I suggested it before you.

I suggested it first!

Seriously, thanks for re-naming it, saviors. It's good enough.

 

[saviorslegacy]

I suggested it first!

Seriously, thanks for re-naming it, saviors. It's good enough.

Yeah well now its the week end. I get to start listing percents now.......


Wooooow... that takes a lot of time. -_-
I got the basic Mushroom Characters done.