mc4
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Jul 15, 2008
- Messages
- 283
I'm not claiming to be the inventor of any of these combinations because the truth is most people with a brain can be creative enough to think of this stuff. But for the people who haven't or would like to contribute to improving snakes game here are a few things that I like to do with snake. ( One of the reason's i like snake so much is because he is very good with traps. I like to think of it as playing a game of chess. Certain moves can force your opponent into a position where they are vulnerable and can't escape.) Sorry no video of any of these yet but they are all combinations i've used against human players.
Fun with grenades
Snakes grenades are incredibly useful and allow for a large range of creativity. Here are a few things i like to use grenades for.
Edge guarding
1. One cool thing you can do when pursuing your opponent off the edge is leaving a grenade on the edge. What this does is protect your return. For example, say your opponent is close to the edge and you go for a spike but miss. You are now in a situation of vulnerability where your opponent will beat you to the edge and will be in a position to edge guard. The grenade that you left on the ledge will either blow up your opponent or close enough to the opponent where they must retreat or dodge making your chances of returning safely without being edge guarded (like being grabbed out of a cypher now thats no fun lol)
2. Edge hogging with a grenade. Simply drop a grenade near the edge then short hop, pick up the grenade in air ( using z) then land on the ledge. What will happen is an explosion while you are hanging on the ledge and will force your opponent away from your ledge either onto the platform where there is a point of vulnerability upon landing (unless the char has a very good recovery such as pit) or they will simple try to dodge the explosion and miss the ledge. The opponent may also brave the hit and hey you atleast got some extra damage. This will never stage spike your snake from the ledge, if it blows you up it will simply throw you up into the air
3. I've found this very effective on chars with recoveries like marths. The character has to rely on a vertical recovery. So in a situation when the character must recover vertically Jump off the stage and drop a grenade in the characters general area (with z assuming you already grenade dropped with shield) and picked it up). This has worked for me to blow the character out of their recovery, sometimes even resulting in a stage spike.
4. This next one i like and have actually seen some people do. When your opponent is recovering vertically jump off the stage and drop a c4 in their general area. Then blow the c4. This will work similar to situation 1 above. The advantage is you can time it and it has a stronger explosion ( better knock back and better chance at stage spike.
5. Why not combine #1 and #4. Pick up a grenade jump off the stage and grenade drop (with z) using your second jump drop a c4 after it ( jump back toward the stage of course) blow the c4 and you'll have a greater range attack and more probability of blowing your opponent out of their vertical recovery.
Recovery
1. One neat trick that can throw your opponent off is using a grenade to recover, granted you may take damage. When knocked off the stage pull out a grenade. short toss this grenade so it remains close to you. then cypher towards the grenade and air grab it ( with z) this can be used in one of two ways. The first way is to change your trajectory so you can remain at a distance from the opponent for a better recovery. (if the opponent is ledge guarding and your recovery would force you to land near the opponent the grenade will blow you up and you can pull out another cypher and you'll have a much higher vertical recovery keeping you further away from your opponent. The second is to use the grenade to throw at your opponent, and it will already be cooked so it will explode closer to your opponent. You'll just need to know how close to be to the stage so that you don't kill yourself.
2. This one depends heavily upon the stage and your skill with catching grenades. If you are in a situation where your vertical recovery will lead to ledge guarding or you just won't make it then you can use a grenade. I find this to be more practical on a stage like yoshi story with a straight sides all the way down. Pull out a grenade and either hard throw or normal throw (depending on how close you are) at the stage. the grenade will bounce back toward you and you can catch it (with z) then have a grenade ready to blow you up improving your recovery. Now you can use your cypher, blow up then use your cypher again. This one can be extremely tough but may work better than c4 tricks when you are close to dying from vertical ( and you could accidentally fast fall while trying to blow yourself up with the c4)
Offense
1. I haven't seen any snakes other than my snake use glide tosses. It as a good approach and or mind game. Simply run toward your opponent glide toss backward (usually what i have observed is the character will try to attack in anticipation of my attack) this will force a retreat to keep you away from the attack and you can follow up with anything ( i like mortar slides). Depending on your spacing from the opponent you could even grab, but those are usually close calls.
2. Mortars are good for protection. So are grenades so why not use both. Standing still ( or even with a downward glide toss) throw a grenade at the ground causing a short grenade bounce, then mortar. this will usually cause two explosions on the ground. the mortar lands first and then the grenade lands very quickly after. So if you get grabbed or attacked out of your mortar, your opponent usually has two attacks coming.
3. Defense is great and so is offense, so why not use both. With moves such as fsmashes, mortars, u tilts f-tilts (whatever get creative) i like to have a grenade to follow up. So before performing any of these moves simply drop a grenade then do the move. result if you hit your opponent with the attack or miss you'll have a cooked grenade to follow up with. ex- grenade drop then fsmash, fsmash misses, pick up the grenade and throw it. (the prettier way for this particular combination is to tap a and smash the cstick at the same time causing snake to pick up the grenade while fsmashing, it has the same effect, in both cases you have a grenade ready to throw)
4. This one is kinda pointless and will probably not work. I do this if i'm just messing around or if i'm being a jerk and know i'm going to win a match lol. When you use your nikita a cool thing that can happen is if you are attacked you will lose control of it but it will continue to travel in the same direction. so what i like to do is hold a grenade then nikita and blow my self up making the nikita continue to travel in the same direction. You can either aim it towards where you think a character will be at a distance, or aim it into the air ( angled verticals) and depending on your angle the nikita will land back on the ground. This can be fun to mess around with. I usually try to do combos like throwing the opponent into the nikkta or timing a mortar to hit them at the same time ( you can get creative). This has a low probability of working but can if nothing else make for good combo video footage
What about land mines and c4?
Offense
1. Problem-Snakes explosives have good range, but sometimes they just don't have enough to hit your opponent. Solution- expand the range of the explosives. What i like to do sometimes is plant a mine near c4 or vice versa. what this does is double the range of your explosive making it more likely to hit the opponent. This way when you blow you c4 it will blow the c4 and the mine at the same time.
2. Mines are fun too bad you can't make them explode on proximity (unless you use the above lol ^) any of snakes explosives (not including rpg) can explode a mine when proximal.
Mortars- Best when the mine is on a plat form directly above you.
Grenades- simply aim and throw at the mine- this will take some practice tho in order to perform a hit from any where on the stage.
grenade variant quick explosion- you can time blowing up your mine if you drop a grenade near or directly above it ( down smash and lay your mine, immediately drop a grenade and either jump or role away)
grenade variant 2 longer explosion- lay your mine then shield dash away (keeping you close the mine) then drop your grenade. The mine will last as long as the grenade does and you'll have a larger range and timed explosion.
Nikita - aim your nikita for the mine or drop it over the mine. (obviously these are only useful when your opponent is near a mine, or any of the explosives for that matter.)
3. This one is similar to hobbling. I've only pulled this one off once ( however i don't try it too often). Grenade plants are fun and good for combos and combo finishers. The problem is that they can be easy to dodge or shield (unless when used in a combo you explode your opponent during hit stun). So after your plant short hop and foot stool your opponent. This will leave your opponent vulnerable for a second or so and while you are above there head and at a safe vertical distance, blow the c4.
The grand finale.
This one takes some time to pull off, but the result is a ridiculously ranged explosion. the key is the order.
1. When ledge guarding (or in a convenient situation) I like to drop a grenade, then drop a c4 close to it causing a bigger and wider ranged explosion.
2. Why not make the explosion bigger. Grenade drop, shield dash or short hop away, drop a c4, shield dash or short hop away, drop another grenade. Result- an even longer ranged explosion.
3. The grand finale you can cover a fourth of a stage ( close to a third on smaller stages like ) with this one. Plant a mine near a ledge. Drop a c4 close to it. Drop a grenade close to the c4. Drop another grenade close to the first. Blow the c4. This is the longest ranged attack in the game* (lol sorry had to make a few corrections and it isn't the longest ranged attack). You will only have a window of a few seconds (however long the first grenade lasts) but this is a good ledge guard technique. ( you can do in other situations that don't improve ledge guarding but it's hard to actually find the time to pull all explosives out when you are being attacked. Unless the opponent is camping, in which case if they are camping projectiles it will more than likely not work.
Using snake to me is like playing a game of chess. These are a few tactics that i like to use to force my opponent into a situation where they become vulnerable.
And just incase you didn't catch it in the beginning i'm not claiming to be the inventor of any of these techniques because i have seen some of them used by other people. However i did think them up on my own, but so have a million other snake players...
Fun with grenades
Snakes grenades are incredibly useful and allow for a large range of creativity. Here are a few things i like to use grenades for.
Edge guarding
1. One cool thing you can do when pursuing your opponent off the edge is leaving a grenade on the edge. What this does is protect your return. For example, say your opponent is close to the edge and you go for a spike but miss. You are now in a situation of vulnerability where your opponent will beat you to the edge and will be in a position to edge guard. The grenade that you left on the ledge will either blow up your opponent or close enough to the opponent where they must retreat or dodge making your chances of returning safely without being edge guarded (like being grabbed out of a cypher now thats no fun lol)
2. Edge hogging with a grenade. Simply drop a grenade near the edge then short hop, pick up the grenade in air ( using z) then land on the ledge. What will happen is an explosion while you are hanging on the ledge and will force your opponent away from your ledge either onto the platform where there is a point of vulnerability upon landing (unless the char has a very good recovery such as pit) or they will simple try to dodge the explosion and miss the ledge. The opponent may also brave the hit and hey you atleast got some extra damage. This will never stage spike your snake from the ledge, if it blows you up it will simply throw you up into the air
3. I've found this very effective on chars with recoveries like marths. The character has to rely on a vertical recovery. So in a situation when the character must recover vertically Jump off the stage and drop a grenade in the characters general area (with z assuming you already grenade dropped with shield) and picked it up). This has worked for me to blow the character out of their recovery, sometimes even resulting in a stage spike.
4. This next one i like and have actually seen some people do. When your opponent is recovering vertically jump off the stage and drop a c4 in their general area. Then blow the c4. This will work similar to situation 1 above. The advantage is you can time it and it has a stronger explosion ( better knock back and better chance at stage spike.
5. Why not combine #1 and #4. Pick up a grenade jump off the stage and grenade drop (with z) using your second jump drop a c4 after it ( jump back toward the stage of course) blow the c4 and you'll have a greater range attack and more probability of blowing your opponent out of their vertical recovery.
Recovery
1. One neat trick that can throw your opponent off is using a grenade to recover, granted you may take damage. When knocked off the stage pull out a grenade. short toss this grenade so it remains close to you. then cypher towards the grenade and air grab it ( with z) this can be used in one of two ways. The first way is to change your trajectory so you can remain at a distance from the opponent for a better recovery. (if the opponent is ledge guarding and your recovery would force you to land near the opponent the grenade will blow you up and you can pull out another cypher and you'll have a much higher vertical recovery keeping you further away from your opponent. The second is to use the grenade to throw at your opponent, and it will already be cooked so it will explode closer to your opponent. You'll just need to know how close to be to the stage so that you don't kill yourself.
2. This one depends heavily upon the stage and your skill with catching grenades. If you are in a situation where your vertical recovery will lead to ledge guarding or you just won't make it then you can use a grenade. I find this to be more practical on a stage like yoshi story with a straight sides all the way down. Pull out a grenade and either hard throw or normal throw (depending on how close you are) at the stage. the grenade will bounce back toward you and you can catch it (with z) then have a grenade ready to blow you up improving your recovery. Now you can use your cypher, blow up then use your cypher again. This one can be extremely tough but may work better than c4 tricks when you are close to dying from vertical ( and you could accidentally fast fall while trying to blow yourself up with the c4)
Offense
1. I haven't seen any snakes other than my snake use glide tosses. It as a good approach and or mind game. Simply run toward your opponent glide toss backward (usually what i have observed is the character will try to attack in anticipation of my attack) this will force a retreat to keep you away from the attack and you can follow up with anything ( i like mortar slides). Depending on your spacing from the opponent you could even grab, but those are usually close calls.
2. Mortars are good for protection. So are grenades so why not use both. Standing still ( or even with a downward glide toss) throw a grenade at the ground causing a short grenade bounce, then mortar. this will usually cause two explosions on the ground. the mortar lands first and then the grenade lands very quickly after. So if you get grabbed or attacked out of your mortar, your opponent usually has two attacks coming.
3. Defense is great and so is offense, so why not use both. With moves such as fsmashes, mortars, u tilts f-tilts (whatever get creative) i like to have a grenade to follow up. So before performing any of these moves simply drop a grenade then do the move. result if you hit your opponent with the attack or miss you'll have a cooked grenade to follow up with. ex- grenade drop then fsmash, fsmash misses, pick up the grenade and throw it. (the prettier way for this particular combination is to tap a and smash the cstick at the same time causing snake to pick up the grenade while fsmashing, it has the same effect, in both cases you have a grenade ready to throw)
4. This one is kinda pointless and will probably not work. I do this if i'm just messing around or if i'm being a jerk and know i'm going to win a match lol. When you use your nikita a cool thing that can happen is if you are attacked you will lose control of it but it will continue to travel in the same direction. so what i like to do is hold a grenade then nikita and blow my self up making the nikita continue to travel in the same direction. You can either aim it towards where you think a character will be at a distance, or aim it into the air ( angled verticals) and depending on your angle the nikita will land back on the ground. This can be fun to mess around with. I usually try to do combos like throwing the opponent into the nikkta or timing a mortar to hit them at the same time ( you can get creative). This has a low probability of working but can if nothing else make for good combo video footage
What about land mines and c4?
Offense
1. Problem-Snakes explosives have good range, but sometimes they just don't have enough to hit your opponent. Solution- expand the range of the explosives. What i like to do sometimes is plant a mine near c4 or vice versa. what this does is double the range of your explosive making it more likely to hit the opponent. This way when you blow you c4 it will blow the c4 and the mine at the same time.
2. Mines are fun too bad you can't make them explode on proximity (unless you use the above lol ^) any of snakes explosives (not including rpg) can explode a mine when proximal.
Mortars- Best when the mine is on a plat form directly above you.
Grenades- simply aim and throw at the mine- this will take some practice tho in order to perform a hit from any where on the stage.
grenade variant quick explosion- you can time blowing up your mine if you drop a grenade near or directly above it ( down smash and lay your mine, immediately drop a grenade and either jump or role away)
grenade variant 2 longer explosion- lay your mine then shield dash away (keeping you close the mine) then drop your grenade. The mine will last as long as the grenade does and you'll have a larger range and timed explosion.
Nikita - aim your nikita for the mine or drop it over the mine. (obviously these are only useful when your opponent is near a mine, or any of the explosives for that matter.)
3. This one is similar to hobbling. I've only pulled this one off once ( however i don't try it too often). Grenade plants are fun and good for combos and combo finishers. The problem is that they can be easy to dodge or shield (unless when used in a combo you explode your opponent during hit stun). So after your plant short hop and foot stool your opponent. This will leave your opponent vulnerable for a second or so and while you are above there head and at a safe vertical distance, blow the c4.
The grand finale.
This one takes some time to pull off, but the result is a ridiculously ranged explosion. the key is the order.
1. When ledge guarding (or in a convenient situation) I like to drop a grenade, then drop a c4 close to it causing a bigger and wider ranged explosion.
2. Why not make the explosion bigger. Grenade drop, shield dash or short hop away, drop a c4, shield dash or short hop away, drop another grenade. Result- an even longer ranged explosion.
3. The grand finale you can cover a fourth of a stage ( close to a third on smaller stages like ) with this one. Plant a mine near a ledge. Drop a c4 close to it. Drop a grenade close to the c4. Drop another grenade close to the first. Blow the c4. This is the longest ranged attack in the game* (lol sorry had to make a few corrections and it isn't the longest ranged attack). You will only have a window of a few seconds (however long the first grenade lasts) but this is a good ledge guard technique. ( you can do in other situations that don't improve ledge guarding but it's hard to actually find the time to pull all explosives out when you are being attacked. Unless the opponent is camping, in which case if they are camping projectiles it will more than likely not work.
Using snake to me is like playing a game of chess. These are a few tactics that i like to use to force my opponent into a situation where they become vulnerable.
And just incase you didn't catch it in the beginning i'm not claiming to be the inventor of any of these techniques because i have seen some of them used by other people. However i did think them up on my own, but so have a million other snake players...
. I wanted more of a kind of *when to use things/how to get out of situations* kind of thing.
