A deeper look at friendly matches.

[Saltix]

Hopefully this thread can blossom into a helpful informative topic but that's wishful thinking.
Lets get this started.

I'm looking to get better at brawl and become the best that I can possibly be. One of the best ways to get better is to go to tournaments and to play as many people as possible.
What if you don't have access to a tournament scene that often? What if you play 95% of your matches in a non tournament setting. This large majority of matches is classified as "friendly matches"

Friendlies tend to be exactly what they are, and nothing more. Typically it is just a match between you and a friend, and nothing is usually on the line. With that being said, would you be the type of person who goes all out on such a minor match? Friendlies are played numerous times that each game may not even seem that important to your many sets.

Now here is what I'm wondering. I want to get better. I play MANY more friendlies than I do tournament matches. And since nothing is on the line, I tend to not go 100%. I want outside input. Is this what you guys do? When I'm playing friendlies, what should I be doing? Should I be looking for new opportunities and trying new things? Should I do things that I normally wouldn't do? I want your opinion.

And as I previously stated, I'd like for this topic to really become a deeper look into friendlies. That will only be possible with help from various members of the community.

 

[The_NZA]

I dont know about you, maybe its that im relatively new to tournaments, but I do far better in friendlies than I do in tournaments, since there is nothing on the line. I usually improve in friendlies. Tournaments are just the center stage that reflects that improvement and places me relative to others.

 

[Big Red]

Friendlies are where are all of your improvement should come from. In friendlies you should try new things, where in tounaments you want to rely on everything you learned from friendlies. I mean, you don't want to question anything you do in tournaments, you don't ever want to say "I wonder if this attack will outprioritize his." You learn that stuff in friendlies so you can play your best in tourney.

 

[PK-ow!]

Now here is what I'm wondering. I want to get better. I play MANY more friendlies than I do tournament matches. And since nothing is on the line, I tend to not go 100%. I want outside input. Is this what you guys do? When I'm playing friendlies, what should I be doing? Should I be looking for new opportunities and trying new things? Should I do things that I normally wouldn't do?

Screw around. Have fun. Try new stuff. Be ridiculous.

Play some matches to specifically avoid using what works for you. I.e., say "I'm not gonna use bair!" with Falco in a match. Try and have a creative insight.

Alternatively, play in an open manner with your opponent for the following purpose: Getting right to your weaknesses and/or practicing to learn specific data procedurally, such as priority relationships, as Big Red said. Being open means forgoing techniques of deception - telling your opponent everything, in real time even. This is to make him a more idealized version of the opponent you're practicing for. Tell him your patterns of response, suggest to him every way he might try to beat you. Get the same from him.

And as I previously stated, I'd like for this topic to really become a deeper look into friendlies. That will only be possible with help from various members of the community.

Looking forward to it.

 

[SothE700k]

If you need to get something going for you when it comes to fighting for something, the next best thing to a tournament match are money matches. If the people you play are willing to atty up some cash, there you go.

As for just the friendlies, most people here would have their match recorded and go all out. After its posted, people will give feedback to what you did right and wrong.

 

[Jack Kieser]

Hell yeah, I try my hardest in friendlies (much to the chagrin of my friends). If I'm experimenting with a new strategy or practicing a new combo, tech, or what have you, I'll never improve if I'm just half-assing it. Personally, I think the connection between friendlies and their impact on tournaments is downplayed to the point where we look at friendly matches as 'inferior' (oh, it's just a friendly; it doesn't matter). Then, people think that tournaments are where you improve and experiment and... well, that rarely works.

Friendlies are very important to growing as a player. That said, you have to use friendly matches and tournament matches in concert. You'll never REALLY progress unless you do both. If all you do is go to tournaments, there's too much on the line to really branch out. If all you do is friendlies, you never push yourself to the brink. They are both very important to growth as a player.

 

[MuraRengan]

There are two types of friendlies.

Noob Friendlies and Competitive Friendlies.

Noob friendlies would be matches where you and a friend basically screw around with no regards to anything beyone having fun.

Competitive Friendlies are friendlies where the match isn't serious, yet both people are trying hard to win.

As you can imagine, competitive friendlies are the only matches you can gain anything from. A competitive friendly match can have just as much, if not more value than a tourney match. Like a tourney match, two people are playing to the best of their ability. However, unlike a tourney match, winning or losing doesn't matter. Without the distraction of trying hard to win with the skill you have, you have more room in matches to analyze how you, yourself play and notice points during the match when you made a bad decision or missed a good opportunity (especially in Brawl since it's so **** slow). Then, after you've taken a mental note of these things you can learn from them in practice on CPUs or in Noob friendlies.

As for "getting better" it's not a topic that can be easily explained. I'm much more of a Melee buff than Brawl so some of my statements here might not apply to Brawl.

"Getting better" has two forms, natural development and deliberate study. Natural development always comes first. Natural development is the skill gained from playing the, character, stage, etc. over and over again and becoming familiar with it. Natural development is just as it sounds, it's you innately becoming aware of everything about gameplay. This alone can take you towards an average skill level, however, with natural development, you will reach a point where there's nothing else you can gain from just playing.

This is where deliberate study comes into play. Deliberate study is when you look for innovative tricks, combos, maneuvers, etc., or copy them from others and incorperate them into play. For instance, a Luigi player may not know how useful shoryuken is until they see a video of someone doing the many instances when it can be used. It is when this player learns these things and incorporates them in play that he has used deliberate study.

Deliberate study may also open doors for more natural development. For instance, a Falco player may use deliberate study to learn to chaingrab, but after that has been learned, that person will naturally learn that they can use nair after a dthrow to continue a combo.

 

[Mith_]

There are two types of friendlies.

Noob Friendlies and Competitive Friendlies.

Noob friendlies would be matches where you and a friend basically screw around with no regards to anything beyone having fun.

Competitive Friendlies are friendlies where the match isn't serious, yet both people are trying hard to win.

As you can imagine, competitive friendlies are the only matches you can gain anything from. A competitive friendly match can have just as much, if not more value than a tourney match. Like a tourney match, two people are playing to the best of their ability. However, unlike a tourney match, winning or losing doesn't matter. Without the distraction of trying hard to win with the skill you have, you have more room in matches to analyze how you, yourself play and notice points during the match when you made a bad decision or missed a good opportunity (especially in Brawl since it's so **** slow). Then, after you've taken a mental note of these things you can learn from them in practice on CPUs or in Noob friendlies.

As for "getting better" it's not a topic that can be easily explained. I'm much more of a Melee buff than Brawl so some of my statements here might not apply to Brawl.

"Getting better" has two forms, natural development and deliberate study. Natural development always comes first. Natural development is the skill gained from playing the, character, stage, etc. over and over again and becoming familiar with it. Natural development is just as it sounds, it's you innately becoming aware of everything about gameplay. This alone can take you towards an average skill level, however, with natural development, you will reach a point where there's nothing else you can gain from just playing.

This is where deliberate study comes into play. Deliberate study is when you look for innovative tricks, combos, maneuvers, etc., or copy them from others and incorperate them into play. For instance, a Luigi player may not know how useful shoryuken is until they see a video of someone doing the many instances when it can be used. It is when this player learns these things and incorporates them in play that he has used deliberate study.

Deliberate study may also open doors for more natural development. For instance, a Falco player may use deliberate study to learn to chaingrab, but after that has been learned, that person will naturally learn that they can use nair after a dthrow to continue a combo.

Brilliant post.

 

[Crizthakidd]

make sure u both agree its gonna be a fool around friendly with chars like falcon or something before u start the match the other type are serious friendlies where both players are playing and having fun but want to win and will actually try with one of their secondaries even main

 

[Rapid_Assassin]

It's important to play lots of matches vs. people who are better than you. The only type of thing you'll learn from playing a sucky player is which attacks are faster, will outprioritize, etc. A sufficiently good player will be able to push you to the limit, especially if they're either a) one of the people winning tournaments or consistently placing in them, b) knows you well enough, or c) both. If they're the ones winning tournaments, you're not going to come across much better than that in tournament. If they know you well enough, and are better, chances are that they can exploit whatever they know about you better than you can exploit what you know about them.

Shameless plug: http://allisbrawl.com/blogpost.aspx?id=7021

 

[Kinzer]

Don't sandbag, at least not when the opponent expects you to do your best against them.

Friendlies allow you to get some practice in, tournament fights are just the "showm ya skills!" fights where you pull absolutely no punches.

I may be wrong, but that's the way I see it.

 

[CR4SH]

The shoryuken issue is a great example.

In a tournament setting you usually get one to three openings (or at least I do) per set for a shoryuken. Less if the person knows you well. More if they don't. Throwing around a shoryuken anywhere outside of an obvious hole is a TERRIBLE idea in a tournament setting. So the only time you ever use it is when you're certain that it will hit. But how do you know when that is? Friendlies.

In a friendly match you can attempt to punish every mistake they make with an outlandish attack. Or even try to only hit them with it. This shows you what works, and often it suprises you. Maybe upon landing, they leave themselves juuuuuust open enough to fit in a punishing move. But that's something you should NEVER try in a tournament match unless you know what the outcome will be.

Another thing you can do is build muscle memory (partially in the "natural learning" category, but it can be directed.) Say you notice that you don't spot dodge much, or very well. Well, you can spend all day playing friendlies just trying to spot dodge everything thrown at you. Or you can jump off the stage at someone every time they get knocked off, with little or no regard for your own stock, because who really cares?

Friendlies let you know what works and what doesn't, on top of that they let you get used to executing what you know works. That way when the opportunity presents itself in a match that matters, you can execute.

p.s. All this experimentation works a hell of alot better against an opponent who is really, truely trying to kill you. If you're both ******* around, you don't gain much. So a match where one person is experimenting and the other is going full throttle is probably the best senario for getting better.

 

[Luigi player]

I probably never go 100 % in friendlies.

Most of the time I even don't go 100 % in tournament fights. I mostly only go 90+% if the fight is about even and that I really have to give my best. I did some really awesome stuff when a set was 1:1 and me and my enemy were on our last stock and had above 180 %. That was crazy and I don't really recall anytime where I was trying THAT hard.
I guess there I gave everything I had.

Uh anyway. In friendlies I sometimes play around, try new stuff... of course I try to win too and get angry if I lose, but since there's nothing on the line and I don't try my best it's not that important.

 

[Paul Hoffman]

I've found that, at least before the start of a tournament, I spend my friendly matches playing to win to get in the groove for the tournament. If I screw around during the friendlies, I tend to make more mistakes in the tournament matches, as where I play to learn, I tend to take more risks (which isn't always the best option). Of course, after the tournament matches end, there's usually time to play the game in these other modes.

I still recall once watching DSF play a friendly where nearly all he used was MK's forward-B - this is a good example for some of the ideas stated above.

 

[MRS1]

The only reason I've gotten better is because I hate losing and my roomate does too

 

[PK-ow!]

I've found that, at least before the start of a tournament, I spend my friendly matches playing to win to get in the groove for the tournament. If I screw around during the friendlies, I tend to make more mistakes in the tournament matches, as where I play to learn, I tend to take more risks (which isn't always the best option). Of course, after the tournament matches end, there's usually time to play the game in these other modes.

I still recall once watching DSF play a friendly where nearly all he used was MK's forward-B - this is a good example for some of the ideas stated above.

I find the opposite. If I 'go iron-face' before the actual tourney is on the line, I psych myself out more than competing in the actual tournament.

It seems I need to reserve certain mindsets for when they are needed; going 'out of pattern' creates some kind of disharmony and messes me up.

I enjoy relaxing before picking up the serious controller. It allows me to have some 'me time' before the potentially devastating rounds in pools, but in addition it has the benefit of increasing my creativity. This is a (recently studied but) well-documented relation of the effect of "play" on insight. If you can remove inhibition - in the form of "being comfortable with yourself and unashamed around others," (comes in degrees) - then you will be more creative. Conditions of play open up the mental barriers because you know everyone else knows everyone else (yes, twice) is going to act weird and pull off strange things. Then you simply bask in this mental state, reaping the reward.

Being creative in the task scenario is extremely adaptive. It makes you more mentally limber to play. . . well, adaptively.

 

[JPOBS]

my advice is to play 1$ MMs with your friends.

 

[Johnny Pteran]

In friendlies, you can do life-risking things with nothing at stake (like Falcon's side-B off the edge for a spike). You can also try new things and experiment around a lot too.

Things I never do, though, are chaingrabs and spam. It's just not fun, which are what friendlies are supposed to be.

 

[ExCeL 52]

I got two suggestions..

1. Hate losing.
2. Start bragging... Noone likes it.. They will play harder thus you playing harder.

 

[Saltix]

I see where some of this logic is coming from. Friendlies are a place to experiment, try new things, and learn the limitations of your characters.

I also see that the best experimenting comes from fighting an opponent who is really going all out against you.

Anything else to add?

 

[Johnny Pteran]

I see where some of this logic is coming from. Friendlies are a place to experiment, try new things, and learn the limitations of your characters.

I also see that the best experimenting comes from fighting an opponent who is really going all out against you.

Anything else to add?

+ lots of fun.

 

[KirbyBeatBox]

It really depends on my mood. If I want to show off my skills I will really try to play a game. I like to play friendly with my friends but my pride for being the best usually gets in the way. Sometimes in a 4 way match I don't care as much because of the random chance and the items. Sometimes I wish I could just play a friendly game without having to crush my opponent into oblivion, but oh well. :D

 

[Mith_]

I got two suggestions..

1. Hate losing.
2. Start bragging... Noone likes it.. They will play harder thus you playing harder.

Don't brag. If you do then your matches will become not-so-friendly.

 

[Ace Of Flames]

Yes. It's what I do. Friendlies are like testing grounds