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A Controversial Proposal

Shining Blitz

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 17, 2008
Messages
79
Location
New York City
NOTE: MY MAIN PROPOSAL IS A 30% HANDICAP ON META-KNIGHT

Meta-Knight. Ah, there's the rub. The bane of the metagame. with MK in his current (and likely, permanent) spot on the theoretical teir list, he will undoubtibly become an overused character, one used as often as the melee top 4 /5 combined, in a worst-case scenario. This not only stifles the tournament potential of the other 34-38 characters, it also renders any development of their strategies irrelevent, as MK has perhaps one counter, in Yoshi. But banning MK entirely would cause an uproar amongst the hardcore and competitive of the community.

I was thinking something along the lines of a temporary ban on MK. At some point in the (hopefully) near future, I would like TOs to start banning meta-knight for, say, 6 weeks. This will allow other character's metagames to develop, as well as hone individual player's skills, so that when meta-knight returns, people will be better prepared to fight him.
, but the 30% handicap may convince them otherwise. Of course, such a handicap is somewhat controversial, but I think that it is reasonable in this one, game-breaking, extreme circumstance.
If this is ineffective, I would suggest a 30% handicap on Meta-Knight.

If MK, after all this, continues to win tournaments, I think it merits a real ban. I think that the 30% handicap is fair and balanced at the moment, and though a 6-week metagame ban to increase other char's viability may help, it may not. Besides, some TOs might ban MK anyway

I believe that this is our best course of action regarding Meta-Knight. I imagine that there will be some opposal to this idea, but you have to consider that MK is genuinely, absurdly overpowered, enough that banning him has become a 44 page topic, and it is greatly important that we take some kind of action. The smash community is responsible for the long-term viability of brawl, and I would be greatly saddened if MK became the only character ever used in tournaments, a possibility that grows more likely by the day.
 

True Fool

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 27, 2007
Messages
524
Location
Vegas
It is most certainly a controversial subject. No one likes having to ban a character, for any reason(unless they're cheap bosses, Gill, Shin-Akuma, Magaki, ect).

If my tourney said he was banned, it'd be no skin off my nose, but I can definitely understand why other players may be upset.

While I'm not certain on his current status or future status, I could see him being discovered as too unfair a character and being banned. That's not to say I necessarily agree with it, but I think I could see it happening.
 

Jam Stunna

Writer of Fortune
BRoomer
Joined
May 6, 2006
Messages
6,450
Location
Hartford, CT
3DS FC
0447-6552-1484
I don't know, I don't see Brawl surviving if the community has to resort to banning/handicapping a non-boss character. To me at least, that would signal some pretty serious problems with the game, not just Metaknight himself.
 

Vyse

Faith, Hope, Love, Luck
BRoomer
Joined
Jul 6, 2005
Messages
9,561
Location
Brisbane, Australia
A 30% handicap won't do a thing. Honestly.
30% won't stop Metaknights from doing what they do best. The issue isn't solvable this easily. It may never be solvable at all.

Talks of handicaps and bans is really unfair on Metaknight mains.

There was this thing in the early development of Melee called the Sheik phase. This is kinda like that.

It will either pass, or it'll stay the same. Metaknight can only develop so much, other characters will catch up.
 

mariofanpm12

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 20, 2008
Messages
997
Location
Louisiana
A 30% handicap won't do a thing. Honestly.
30% won't stop Metaknights from doing what they do best. The issue isn't solvable this easily. It may never be solvable at all.

Talks of handicaps and bans is really unfair on Metaknight mains.

There was this thing in the early development of Melee called the Sheik phase. This is kinda like that.

It will either pass, or it'll stay the same. Metaknight can only develop so much, other characters will catch up.
Yes, but even after catching up, Meta-Kight may still just be better.

The 30% handicap won't help, though, I agree. A Meta Knight can rack up double that much or more on most characters and not even take damage.
 

Onomanic

Heaven Piercer
Joined
May 4, 2008
Messages
2,263
Location
Westwood, NJ
Sounds... logical? I don't know, it seems a bit unfair to the MK players. I think we should let the meta game improve a bit then see if we need a handicap.
 

kirbstir

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 11, 2004
Messages
1,743
Grow some balls and figure out how to beat him, I'm sure this talk came up when dealing with Sheik chain grabbing 80% of the cast in melee and look what happened
 

Oracle

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 15, 2008
Messages
3,471
Location
Dallas, TX
I don't know, I don't see Brawl surviving if the community has to resort to banning/handicapping a non-boss character. To me at least, that would signal some pretty serious problems with the game, not just Metaknight himself.
^^^This.
I sure hope brawl doesn't survive. Then we can go back to melee
And I can play pichu!!!
 

AlcyoNite

Smash Champion
Joined
May 1, 2007
Messages
2,332
Location
**** Triangle, NC
I say learn counters or play MK. It will take a lot of work (or none at all) to make Brawl seriously viable in the competitive field of play. You can have tournaments for it, sure, but it wont be any different from having a Dragon Ball Z Budokai 3 tournament or w/e. Brawl is mainly played for money by the really good players because the same people who complain about MK are the ones who will pay money to get ***** by him. And I'm not joking; play MK.
 

clowsui

Smash Legend
Joined
Feb 14, 2007
Messages
10,184
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
no kidding
people are johnning way too much about mk
their biggest complaint is probably glide attack cancels, the range that MK covers and tornado

GACs -> DSmash or tornado or ftilt can be solved by shielding, spotdodging -> shield or simply LEARNING THE RANGE OF SHUTTLE LOOP AND PUNISHING FROM ABOVE. seriously, shuttle loop maintains the same speed every time. just hit them through it, every character has at least one move that can

you can learn the range of all of MKs moves easily lol, just go into training mode or just ask a friend to spam a select few moves when playing MK. if you play brawl often then every day just select 15 minutes of playing as (if you're by yourself) or against MK and just ask yourself/the other ppl to throw out ftilt, dtilt, fair, dair and dsmash, MK's top 5 threats by far. if you play enough you will learn shuttle loop range, dash grab + dash attack range, the other five moves i listed up there require a bit more time to study

with tornado:

1. angle shield up. prevents poking and makes it easy to shielddrop -> whatever
2. DI...i forget, is it down and out or something? anyways most of the time MKs will get you with the edge of the tornado because you're...
3. RUN(ning) AWAY
 

OverLade

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 19, 2006
Messages
8,225
Location
Tampa, FL
I hate when people say "OMG YOU CAN SHIELD NADO"

What if they use it again? How many nados can you shiled in a row before there's nothing you can do....1.

30% wouldn't stop M2K and DSF from ****** everyone.

If you want to beat MK, then play one of the few characters who can actually counter nado and fight him. Otherwise quit brawl, because you're not going to win any larger tourneys anytime soon.
 

clowsui

Smash Legend
Joined
Feb 14, 2007
Messages
10,184
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
lol you do realize that you can just shield drop as soon as they're done with the nado?
at the exact moment his wings stop twisting you drop your shield and there you go
 

Roager

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 14, 2008
Messages
704
Location
Idaho
It doesn't really matter. You can badmouth MK all you want. It doesn't affect people. Well, that's not true. At least a few people stopped maining MK because he's such a hated char. But: M2K and DSF don't give a rat's *** what you say about MK. Why? Because they know that if it becomes tourney standard to ban MK, then Brawl will die. The community at large will have a mass backlash, Brawl will become the new swear word, and anyone who even mentions one of the new Brawl characters will be executed.

Sure, I'm exaggerating. But you get the idea. They know he won't get banned. It's just too unsafe to do that. MK mains will exist as long as Brawl does. As for the rest of us, we don't main MK. Either we want some sort of action taken, which isn't going to happen, or we don't. I don't. Why? Because sooner or later there'll be no point in maining MK anymore. If he's really such a broken character, even the MK mains will know it. And sooner or later, they too will realize that there's more to Brawl than MK. I played MK for a while. It stopped being fun. Why? He's just too easy to use. I want more challenge. So now I main Falcon and Ike.



Long post make short: MK will not be banned. MK will recieve no handicap. MK will be played. But eventually, people will stop having fun playing MK, and they will play somebody else instead.
 

Tomato Kirby

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 4, 2007
Messages
582
Roager, your signature fits this thread. :ohwell:

My solutions? Main Meta-Knight, have a counter-pick, learn the match-up, or go home.
 

icincelli

Smash Cadet
Joined
Apr 26, 2008
Messages
56
Location
riverside, ca
yeah meta knight is a cheater kinda but banns are unfair the meta mains....i think theres hope for more characters to shine.... with people like hugs rob or even more amazing hella's sonic i think theres hope yet. Some characters can gain a slight comeback like ics if they get the chance to grab a metaknight with nana still alive you can cg and pop him up the top. The majority of people just need to keep on trying to prove that other characters still have something to offer the metagame that metaknight just cant.
 

Pk_Starstorm11

Smash Cadet
Joined
Sep 5, 2008
Messages
62
Location
Kenmore/Buffalo NY
I don't like the thought of having anything banned. I mean you have to just get used to it. Its part of the game so why just take it out? Its like when my friend is Falco and gets the Smash Bawl and and just take out people on a good day, well thats why we gang-**** him and don't let him get that Smash Bawl.

I found a way around that, around Sonic's around the Fan and Ray Gun. You can find away around this.
 

TheTantalus

Smash Hero
Joined
May 19, 2008
Messages
6,887
Location
Hampstead, MD
I don't like the thought of having anything banned. I mean you have to just get used to it. Its part of the game so why just take it out? Its like when my friend is Falco and gets the Smash Bawl and and just take out people on a good day, well thats why we gang-**** him and don't let him get that Smash Bawl.

I found a way around that, around Sonic's around the Fan and Ray Gun. You can find away around this.
Maybe you don't understand competitive play.

Metaknight is on a level of his own in terms of strength and speed- no one has the potential he has. He is dominating tournaments for a reason. And in tournaments, we don't use Smash Balls, Fans, or Ray guns. This makes Meta godly unstoppable in tourney settings. There aren't many characters you can compete with him.
 

PhoenixAlpha

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 18, 2007
Messages
387
Location
Dallas - The Land of The Killers
People in competitive Brawl will do whatever works. In this case, MK works. But he isn't the ONLY one that works. Looking over the HOBO tournament results in the Houston thread, I see an MK in the top 4 every time (and in one of the HOBOs he appears twice lol). But he isn't the only one who's getting top 4, and in NONE of the HOBOs yet (tomorrow is number 10) has an MK actually won.

Take this statement for what it's worth, of course, since this is only one set of tourneys. Houston is a big place, however, and I think it's good enough to start getting a general picture.

Call me nit-picky if you wish, but I wouldn't say that MK is dominating tournaments.

I would like to see some tournament results or places where MK is actually doing enough damage
to justify the complainers. (Not trying to challenge anyone in a rude way. Seriously, if someone
has some data to show me then I'm all in to see it, because I don't know where all the hate is coming from).

EDIT: Tantalus, your name and sig are awesome!
 
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