9/11...Oh man I can't believe I'm doing this...

[Smoke and smash]

So, today marks the 8th anniversary of 9/11, a day of which I'm sure all of you are familiar with. This topic I'm about to start may cause a lot of controversy, and honestly I'm expecting a lot of you to be disgusted with what I'm about to say. I love controversy, and I love pissing people off. However I am not doing this purely for those reasons; I'm not doing this just to play devil's advocate. I'm doing this to get people to think, something which most of you aren't accustomed to doing.

With that being said: Is establishing a day of remembrance for 9/11 a good thing?

I think we should forget about 9/11. I don't see anybody mourning all the children who die of birth defects. I don't see anybody mourning the people who die of starvation, horrific diseases, or even simply people who die in daily car crashes. I could go on but my point is this: You can't discriminate people in death.... Choosing who deserves the blessings and attention of an entire country is just wrong. What makes them so great? Why are their lives more valuable than anybody else? 3,000 people died on 9/11, but in places like Africa there are genocides in which as many as millions of people die; nobody cares about that.

What exactly, is it that dictates who is deserving of remembrance more-so than say, me, you, the guy down the street, or anyone else who is dead or will be dead one day?

Everybody feels that it is their duty to pray for the lives lost and their families and whatnot, but those people didn't die fighting for my rights, fighting to protect my country, or fighting for my life. They died because they were a victim of outside factors beyond their control. People die of such conditions regularly, and it is wrong to say somebody's life, or lack of life in this case, is of more importance than somebody else. When I die, I don't expect the entire country to mourn and pray for me. And believe me, they won't.

9/11 has spun so far out of control that is has made the people of America think it's okay to terrorize other countries and that anything we do is justified. This bull**** has got to stop, so please stop supporting the "always remember, never forget" mentality and just ****ing forget about it already.

By promoting the remembrance of 9/11, you are fueling the fire for the war on terror. This is a war which can never be truly won, a war which only kills MORE innocent people.

The Patriot act is evil, an abomination to our constitution, and because of everybody's nationalistic mentalities, such an evil has become a reality. Nobody even bothered to read exactly what it was. It was passed as law not even 2 months after 9/11, in fact the act was never even debated. If people weren't so emotional about 9/11, perhaps somebody would have stopped to read it for a second. Please, let 9/11 fade away.

 

[Fuelbi]

I think your right on all this. Its been eight ****ing years. Its like mourning a loved one. Your gonna have to move on with your life at one point. And yes all this remembrance is feuling the war even more than it needs to be. I agree with you one hundred percent. BTW what does devils advocate mean?

 

[Smoke and smash]

It means arguing a point, usually on the losing side, just for the sake of arguing.

 

[:mad:]

I think your right on all this. Its been eight ****ing years. Its like mourning a loved one. Your gonna have to move on with your life at one point. And yes all this remembrance is feuling the war even more than it needs to be. I agree with you one hundred percent. BTW what does devils advocate mean?

America has this thing for remembering the important events of the past. 9/11 was a national tragedy that shouldn't be forgotten. It's not as if they've made a holiday like 'Veterans Day', which I'm sure you two would object to since we're honoring the people that fight for our freedom.

I did chuckle a bit at you asking what Devils Advocate means, try googling it.

 

[Omnicron's Baklava Enterprises]

I may consider you a good friend just because of that post.

It should not be remembered because of all the reasons that you stated, also because whenever they remember that day, many think of Muslims and extremists.
My friend actually began to rant about it earlier today because apparently he lost his uncle in it. Funny considering that thousands more on the Internet also state that they lost family members; they are just trying to get attention and compassion from others.

I witnessed the collapse of the towers on BBC when I was 5 years old. The only thing I thought was that "Oh... Now I won't be able to venture up those towers now."

Because Americans pay so much attention to this one and small (compared to the genocides, et cetera) event, they make it seem that just because roughly 3000 of their people died, that they are the only important ones around the world.
They are not, really.
You are correct! So very correct! What about those genocides in Africa? What about the civilians that die every day within that war and the civilians that die within those riots in China and Iran?
America may be safer, that does not mean that they are important.
It should be forgotten... Yes, those deaths are tragic, but the deaths of millions from disease and genocide in Africa are much more tragic.
And every time they recall 9/11, they promote more hate and thus promote the War on Terror.

My friend stated out of rage "Those dumb Muslims", I was viciously hurt by that comment.
So much blinded hatred.

Forget 9/11, it wasn't that bad, compared to the genocides, diseases, riots, et cetera.

 

[:mad:]

I'll go ahead and take a shot at this.

It should not be remembered because of all the reasons that you stated, also because whenever they remember that day, many think of Muslims and extremists.

I imagine people would think of this because the act was carried out by middle-eastern terrorists.

My friend actually began to rant about it earlier today because apparently he lost his uncle in it. Funny considering that thousands more on the Internet also state that they lost family members; they are just trying to get attention and compassion from others.

What? That doesn't only apply to family members of those victims on planes, people look for sympathy every day. Most of which are smarter than the people you described because they don't seek compassion on the internet.

I witnessed the collapse of the towers on BBC when I was 5 years old. The only thing I thought was that "Oh... Now I won't be able to venture up those towers now."

It didn't directly affect you, so I imagine it didn't have a big impact on your life. You didn't care.

Because Americans pay so much attention to this one and small (compared to the genocides, et cetera) event, they make it seem that just because roughly 3000 of their people died, that they are the only important ones around the world.

I'm pretty irritated with this section of your post. The death toll doesn't need to be in the 6th figure for a tragedy to be a big deal. The country is taking steps to protect itself so things like this won't ever happen again. Americans aren't obligated to care about other parts of the world, but they do anyway. I did enjoy how you continued the trend of "americans are stuck-up snobs that only care about themselves." We're among the first countries that come rushing to help.

What about those genocides in Africa? What about the civilians that die every day within that war and the civilians that die within those riots in China and Iran?
Their country may be safer, that does not mean that they are important.

None of these apply to the USA. We're not going to dedicate a day to remembering the many genocides of other countries, that's just plain ignorance.

It should be forgotten... Yes, those deaths are tragic, but the deaths of millions from disease and genocide in Africa are much more tragic.
And every time they recall 9/11, they promote more hate and thus promote the War on Terror.

You're entitled to your opinion, but once you pass it off as an irrefutable fact, you're becoming no better than those no good, stubborn, pig-faced Americans.

My friend stated out of rage "Those dumb Muslims", I was viciously hurt by that comment.
So much blinded hatred.

He was talking about the terrorist groups that brought forth the act, not every single Muslim in the entire world. Think.

Forget 9/11, it wasn't that bad, compared to the genocides, diseases, riots, et cetera.

You just don't get it, I suppose.

 

[.Marik]

Was 9/11 a terrorist attack, or a conspiriacy orchestrated by the Bush Administration team which subsequently and intentionally blamed the Muslim religion?

Take your pick, I've always wanted to make a thread about this, just never had the time or motivation to do so.

 

[Smoke and smash]

Was 9/11 a terrorist attack, or a conspiriacy orchestrated by the Bush Administration team which subsequently and intentionally blamed the Muslim religion?

Take your pick, I've always wanted to make a thread about this, just never had the time or motivation to do so.

Go for it. I wouldn't mind participating in a debate about that.

Actually on second thought, I doubt anybody here would even take the debate seriously. It would either be full of mindless flames or not have anybody post in it at all.

Only one way to find out, right? =)

 

[Frank West]

...um people don't actually believe a president would devise an assault of that magnitude on his own country do they?

anyways, It always happens this way. During pearl harbor there was huge anti-japanese sentiment for a long while. It's only natural but it blows over. People should realize we don't remember 9/11 as a day to shake our fists at those stinkin muslims for what they did to us, we do it as a lament for lost victims. And besides most people that possess at least half a brain realize Muslims=/=Taliban Extremist and are not further fueled with prejudice whenever they think about 9/11.

I guess bottom line is: no we shouldn't as a country be moping about this for the next 50 years, but to forget about it would be utterly disrespectful to too many parties to name.

 

[Smoke and smash]

...um people don't actually believe a president would devise an assault of that magnitude on his own country do they?

You'd be surprised. I can show you some interesting things, if the topic happens that is.

 

[-ACE-]

The events that took place on 9/11/01 serve as a way for Americans to remember that although we are the most powerful nation in the world, we are by no means invulnerable to acts of Terrorism. It reminds us, as a nation, that security and defense should always be of utmost importance. I agree that we shouldn't dwell on the past. I also feel that there is a lesson to be learned from this event, and THAT is something that we shouldn't forget.

 

[Frank West]

You'd be surprised. I can show you some interesting things, if the topic happens that is.

Bush is ********. But not that ********.

 

[Aesir]

I love how people seem to think that the government is so sneaky that they can get away with a conspiracy that elaborate; yet they can't even handle Katrina properly lol.

The events that took place on 9/11/01 serve as a way for Americans to remember that although we are the most powerful nation in the world, we are by no means invulnerable to acts of Terrorism. It reminds us, as a nation, that security and defense should always be of utmost importance. I agree that we shouldn't dwell on the past. I also feel that there is a lesson to be learned from this event, and THAT is something that we shouldn't forget.

Not quite, what 9/11 should symbolize is if we continue to police the world history will repeat it's self.

 

[-ACE-]

I love how people seem to think that the government is so sneaky that they can get away with a conspiracy that elaborate; yet they can't even handle Katrina properly lol.

Unbelievable. I was thinking the exact same thing a few minutes ago haha.

Edit: Sorry for this unnecessary post.

 

[Mr. Rogu]

we shouldnt forget about it cause that day made everyone realize that we need better security at airports.

however

we should stop acknowledging it during our day cause really, is nothing to celebrate about. pearl harbor is in a way similar to 9/11, but yet, we dont do anything for that

 

[Smoke and smash]

Bush is ********. But not that ********.

Hehe, save it for the topic when it happens. Except, you know, elaborate and stuff.

 

[Omnicron's Baklava Enterprises]

imagine people would think of this because the act was carried out by middle-eastern terrorists.

Which then they tend to relate to the whole of the Middle East, so sad it is. Not just America, Britain does too.

? That doesn't only apply to family members of those victims on planes, people look for sympathy every day. Most of which are smarter than the people you described because they don't seek compassion on the internet.

Well then why do the people on the Internet use a tragic event just for their sympathy? It is extremely selfish.

didn't directly affect you, so I imagine it didn't have a big impact on your life. You didn't care.

Again, did you not see that I said that I was a mere 5 years old? At that age most humans cannot comprehend such an act. Besides, when I first discovered what had really happened, I was quite shocked. Now, however, I think that they should hold just a minor memorial for it, not focus on it for a whole day every year.

I'm pretty irritated with this section of your post. The death toll doesn't need to be in the 6th figure for a tragedy to be a big deal. The country is taking steps to protect itself so things like this won't ever happen again. Americans aren't obligated to care about other parts of the world, but they do anyway. I did enjoy how you continued the trend of "americans are stuck-up snobs that only care about themselves." We're among the first countries that come rushing to help.

I know America has helped in Africa, but were they the ones to get there first?
I'm not making out America to be a fully ignorant and racist country, insha'allah it is not!
They are just more of the many countries that attempt to help, they do not just come rushing in, the United Nations does. The United Nations is an international body, not fully American.

None of these apply to the USA. We're not going to dedicate a day to remembering the many genocides of other countries, that's just plain ignorance.

Seems more like sympathy if you dedicate a day to millions of deaths instead of just 3000. However, I am not saying literally to do so.
And this makes Americans want to worry about what happened in their country 8 years ago instead of thousands of deaths happening elsewhere at the moment? Ouch.

was talking about the terrorist groups that brought forth the act, not every single Muslim in the entire world. Think.

Well then, maybe he should master himself and say 'those dumb terrorists/extremists then. When he said "Muslim" that term still applies to so many.

Lest you antagonize me again? Merde, and I thought it was mended during the Mario discussion.

 

[Shadow13]

we shouldnt forget about it cause that day made everyone realize that we need better security at airports.

however

we should stop acknowledging it during our day cause really, is nothing to celebrate about. pearl harbor is in a way similar to 9/11, but yet, we dont do anything for that

Pearl Harbor was during WWII, 9/11 didn't happen during a time of war, that's a big difference.

Well then why do the people on the Internet use a tragic event just for their sympathy? It is extremely selfish.

So, just because people are trying to get sympathy from it we should not remember it as much? If they are that desperate, they would probably try to get sympathy from another event, maybe one more tragic than 9/11, should it not be remembered as much.

I know America has helped in Africa, but were they the ones to get there first?I'm not making out America to be a fully ignorant and racist country, insha'allah it is not! They are just more of the many countries that attempt to help, they do not just come rushing in, the United Nations does. The United Nations is an international body, not fully American.

Yet you still said that they think that they are the most important because of 3000 people in their country dying. Many things that happen to a certain country aren't remembered as much by those outside of their country.

Seems more like sympathy if you dedicate a day to millions of deaths instead of just 3000. However, I am not saying literally to do so.
And this makes Americans want to worry about what happened in their country 8 years ago instead of thousands of deaths happening elsewhere at the moment? Ouch.

What I just typed in the upper part of the post should be fine to answer this.

Well then, maybe he should master himself and say 'those dumb terrorists/extremists then. When he said "Muslim" that term still applies to so many.

I think I can relate this to a blog that turned into a debate here.
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=236966 Original Post
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=237765 PG thread

Notice he says "I'm tired of these MOTHER-****ING KIDS ON MAH MOTHER-****ING DOORSTEP!" Similar to what mad said about your friend, he doesn't mean all kids, he just means the kids on his doorstep. Should all kids take offense to that? I know it is on a different scale, but your friend is not hating the group, so does it matter that much that he called them "dumb Muslums" when he just means the terrorists?

 

[Omnicron's Baklava Enterprises]

Pearl Harbor was during WWII, 9/11 didn't happen during a time of war, that's a big difference.

So, just because people are trying to get sympathy from it we should not remember it as much? If they are that desperate, they would probably try to get sympathy from another event, maybe one more tragic than 9/11, should it not be remembered as much.

Well then, what other event in recent American history could these liars use that was more tragic than 9/11?

I think I can relate this to a blog that turned into a debate here.
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=236966 Original Post
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=237765 PG thread

Notice he says "I'm tired of these MOTHER-****ING KIDS ON MAH MOTHER-****ING DOORSTEP!" Similar to what mad said about your friend, he doesn't mean all kids, he just means the kids on his doorstep. Should all kids take offense to that? I know it is on a different scale, but your friend is not hating the group, so does it matter that much that he called them "dumb Muslims" when he just means the terrorists?

I have to say the part you just explained wasn't really a debate, it was more like a lesson.

Maybe do not forget it, but at least acknowledge it less, it happened eight years ago.

My whole opinion of 9/11 was that it was just another attempt by humans to destroy each other... How tragic our actions can turn out to be.

 

[.Marik]

Aesir, I just suggested the possibilities because I'm genuinely interested in what people think of the situation.

The OP does bring up a good point about letting this event fade slowly into oblivion, and that "why do these people get special attention?"

The reason is because it's not an individual fatality. It's a whole group of people, in the thousands, and it's a national tragedy. So out of patriotic respect, America has to pay it's due and remember these fallen citizens.

On another note, I'd think that these terrorists would want the reaction of Americans to hang their head in shame, look down at the ground, forget this ever happened, and walk around with a feeling of defeat.

Americans should never forget this event, when American citizens contributing to the betterment of society were systematically wiped out on a suicidal kamikaze mission because of hatred. It's a psychological factor that prevents the attackers from feeling that the mission was an accomplishment, in a sense.

 

[Omnicron's Baklava Enterprises]

Americans should never forget this event, when American citizens contributing to the betterment of society were systematically wiped out on a suicidal kamikaze mission because of hatred.

Apparently, it was not fully out of hatred for America; it was also because of their version of radical Islam stating that they are dying for their God (martyr?) and that they will be aptly rewarded.

Then again, people were dancing in the streets in the more hostile countries of the Middle East because they had heard that the towers had collapsed.

I heard an interesting quote from an Iranian economist, saying:

"Never underestimate the power of an American symbol of capitalism (or pride, either one) falling to the ground in front of the eyes of their enemies."

Apparently it had a profound effect on some of these people, they were so pleased that such an atrocity had occurred.
Why not just acknowledge 9/11 less? Still acknowledge it, but look forward to the future and try not to look back at horrible past events.
People will still learn about it, yes, but over time 9/11 will probably fade as a memory.
At least it seems that our flight systems are up-to-date now thus something like that may never happen again.

 

[.Marik]

Apparently, it was not fully out of hatred for America; it was also because of their version of radical Islam stating that they are dying for their God (martyr?) and that they will be aptly rewarded.

^ And how is that not hatred for the western world?

Becoming a martyr is a large factor which encouraged the attacks, but the motive was still fueled by hatred, as these radical terrorists declared Americans as "enemies".

 

[Omnicron's Baklava Enterprises]

^ And how is that not hatred for the western world?

Oh no, I was just stating it wasn't all hatred for the Western world, I was just giving a fact about how it was also their Religion taken far beyond the limits.

Normal Muslims would be appalled at those terrorists. The people dancing in the streets? Again, they were the ones influenced by Al Qaeda's radical Islam.
It was really an incentive for them because of the 'reward' given to them in the afterlife.

 

[.Marik]

Oh no, I was just stating it wasn't all hatred for the Western world, I was just giving a fact about how it was also their Religion taken far beyond the limits.

Normal Muslims would be appalled at those terrorists. The people dancing in the streets? Again, they were the ones influenced by Al Qaeda's radical Islam.
It was really an incentive for them because of the 'reward' given to them in the afterlife.

Agreed.

10

 

[Mr. Rogu]

Pearl Harbor was during WWII, 9/11 didn't happen during a time of war, that's a big difference.

True, but the US at the time was neutral and after pearl harbor, then the US were involved in it.

The world knew of terrorism, but didnt really do major movements to stop it. After 9/11, Bush declared war on terrorism and sent people to iraq

 

[Smoke and smash]

The United States military is the largest and single most expensive terrorist organization on earth.

http://news.antiwar.com/2009/09/14/us-troops-attack-somalia/

 

[thegreatkazoo]

True, but the US at the time was neutral and after pearl harbor, then the US were involved in it.

The world knew of terrorism, but didnt really do major movements to stop it. After 9/11, Bush declared war on terrorism and sent people to iraq

Never mind the fact that declaring war on a tactic is another kind of stupid, but I digress...

 

[Shadow13]

True, but the US at the time was neutral and after pearl harbor, then the US were involved in it.

The world knew of terrorism, but didnt really do major movements to stop it. After 9/11, Bush declared war on terrorism and sent people to iraq

Yes, that is true, but WWII was bigger than anything going on before 9/11. So it is still different. WWII had millions of people dieing. Not to mention the fact that we had more people fight in WWII than we have over in the Middle East right now. After Pearl Harbor, we had much worse things going on in the world, so we kinda had something else to think about as an important thing going on. We weren't getting involved in a World War after 9/11.
We were helping Britain in the war already, so it made sense that eventually we would get pulled into WWII.
Also, Pearl Harbor was mainly an attack on our military, 9/11 was an attack on civillians. The Pentagon also got attacked, and that was the first time since the War of 1812.