Social 7th Heaven - Cloud Social Thread

[7NATOR]

I've never played final fantasy 7 before...

How good is it

Also to let you know, Smash 4 isn't the first Smash game Cloud appeared in

There were 2 smash games (Unofficial / No Brawl mods) that Cloud appeared in before appearing in smash 4

Can you guess what they are

 

[Tino]

Well for starters, today is my first time playing Final Fantasy VII, a game I've been wanting to try out since the day Cloud was confirmed for Smash back in November.

And from what I've played, I really enjoyed it so far and I've put in an hour and a half into the game.

I'm pretty sure it's one of them fan made Smash games you find on PC like Smash Flash or whatever.

 

[7NATOR]

Okay

Can you race chocobos and do awesome minigames

also Super smash flash 1 is one of those games, there is a Lesser known fangame that featured Cloud ( in his Advent Children costume) and is discontinued

 

[JesseMcCloud]

Anyone else read 7NATOR's posts in this guy's voice?

 

[7NATOR]

What does Herbert have to do with my posts

Wait.. Herbert is his name right?

 

[Lady Kuki]

Discussion time!

Didn't watch the entire set, but I heard M2K's Cloud got 3-0'd by Mew2's Mewtwo. Any thoughts on this? Could it be just M2K's match up inexperience or an unfavorable match up for Cloud? Maybe people are even starting to find more effective ways of edgeguarding Cloud. :0

I need to actually watch it before saying anything about it, but for those who have seen the set, what are your thoughts?

 

[Strong-Arm]

Cloud isnt flawless nor perfect. I picked up Lucina to cover the several existing meh MUs for him

 

[Deleted member]

Discussion time!

Didn't watch the entire set, but I heard M2K's Cloud got 3-0'd by Mew2's Mewtwo. Any thoughts on this? Could it be just M2K's match up inexperience or an unfavorable match up for Cloud? Maybe people are even starting to find more effective ways of edgeguarding Cloud. :0

I need to actually watch it before saying anything about it, but for those who have seen the set, what are your thoughts?

People are learning just now to take advantage of his garbage recovery.

Besides that, as a Mewtwo main it's not outright horrible for him but he's definitely at a disadvantage vs. Cloud, it's doable however. We have the mobility to match his, edgeguard him almost for free, and him limit camping against us is pretty ineffective considering our many ways to counteract it.

 

[Lady Kuki]

Cloud isnt flawless nor perfect. I picked up Lucina to cover the several existing meh MUs for him

Oh I know Cloud isn't perfect. Not with that recovery. I'm just wondering if Mewtwo is a threat to Cloud and if Cloud's viability will go down due to his awful recovery. Not that I think Mewtwo is bad; he is pretty good now thanks to his buffs.

People are learning just now to take advantage of his garbage recovery.

Besides that, as a Mewtwo main it's not outright horrible for him but he's definitely at a disadvantage vs. Cloud, it's doable however. We have the mobility to match his, edgeguard him almost for free, and him limit camping against us is pretty ineffective considering our many ways to counteract it.

I've noticed. I haven't fought very many Mewtwos with Cloud, but when I did, I did notice I had a harder time getting in and dodging his attacks since Mewtwo is deceptively fast. I'm not sure if Mewtwo has always been fast even before the patch though; I didn't play him much when he was out.

 

[Strong-Arm]

Cloud is viable. I still dont think hes solo main material. He basically spawns at death percent. People are finally optimizing their characters against him and learning how to deal with his recovery which is awful no matter how much work we put into making it "better". I think Cloud needs a secondary in all honesty.

 

[Deleted member]

Oh I know Cloud isn't perfect. Not with that recovery. I'm just wondering if Mewtwo is a threat to Cloud and if Cloud's viability will go down due to his awful recovery. Not that I think Mewtwo is bad; he is pretty good now thanks to his buffs.

I've noticed. I haven't fought very many Mewtwos with Cloud, but when I did, I did notice I had a harder time getting in and dodging his attacks since Mewtwo is deceptively fast. I'm not sure if Mewtwo has always been fast even before the patch though; I didn't play him much when he was out.

Mewtwo got walk/run speed buffs in 1.1.3. He now dashes as fast as Meta Knight, making him have the 11th/12th highest dash speed in the game. It also helps he has the 3rd highest air speed (even if his air acceleration sucks) and a great airdodge.

To add to what Strong-Arm said, I agree with Cloud needing a secondary. or would be good choices if you're looking towards high tiers, if not then is a good bet. To be honest I don't see what MUs Lucina does better than Cloud in.

 

[Lady Kuki]

Cloud is viable. I still dont think hes solo main material. He basically spawns at death percent. People are finally optimizing their characters against him and learning how to deal with his recovery which is awful no matter how much work we put into making it "better". I think Cloud needs a secondary in all honesty.

Yeaaah I agree with you. I do think he's still pretty good, but that recovery is just... ugh and I don't think there's a way that we can fix it.

Who would be a good secondary for Cloud? I'm co maining him with Roy (because I want Roy to get results), but due to Cloud's exploitable recovery, I may need a third character. Or not. Maybe I'm not supposed to be co maining or using three characters; I'm not sure because I'm very new to the competitive scene honestly. :X

 

[Deleted member]

Yeaaah I agree with you. I do think he's still pretty good, but that recovery is just... ugh and I don't think there's a way that we can fix it.

Who would be a good secondary for Cloud? I'm co maining him with Roy (because I want Roy to get results), but due to Cloud's exploitable recovery, I may need a third character. Or not. Maybe I'm not supposed to be co maining or using three characters; I'm not sure because I'm very new to the competitive scene honestly. :X

Having even more than one main is pushing it, but it more or less depends on your skill.

For example, I main (even if I've been really considering dropping him) and .
and are my secondaries. If you pick up another character be sure to know when to use them and dedicate time into them. I've been wanting to shave down my roster even because I don't wanna focus on four characters.

 

[Strong-Arm]

I just like Lucina (heck I still play Ganondorf sometimes) against chars like Falcon, Dedede, Kirby, etc. The Lucina buffs were just as huge as Marths and people need to stop being ignorant about them. Marth and Lucina can give Cloud a hard time too if play properly thanks to their fair buff. I chose Lucina out of personally enjoying her (Ganondorf isnt good despite my love of him sorry). But I see Ike as a good alternative in all honesty against some MUs. I should go into more depth cause that seems simple. Its not just me liking her. Its range, reliable combos, and off stage stupid fair and more.

Also for secondary options? Honestly I just go with characters that still have said range, but can recover better. I know that sounds simple but in certain mus where we NEED to recovery and dont want to die at zero *cough* falcon *cough* Its often better to go with certain chars.

Heres my personal chart for tournament play btw.

 

[Lady Kuki]

Having even more than one main is pushing it, but it more or less depends on your skill.

For example, I main (even if I've been really considering dropping him) and .
and are my secondaries. If you pick up another character be sure to know when to use them and dedicate time into them. I've been wanting to shave down my roster even because I don't wanna focus on four characters.

Yeaaaah I had a feeling that "co-maining" as they would call it wasn't such a good idea. I already thought I grew past the idea of having a whopping six "mains", but apparently even three characters is a little too much. Such a shame; I like Roy and Cloud, but both have exploitable weaknesses and aren't solo viable. Since Cloud is already getting a crap ton of results regardless, maybe I should just switch him with another high tier main who can cover Roy.

When finding a secondary, do you find the weaknesses of your main then find a character that can cover said weaknesses?

 

[Strong-Arm]

Honestly go Lucina or Marth. They got enough buffs that I see them as very VERY viable now. They do everything Roy did but a ton better imo.

 

[Deleted member]

I just like Lucina (heck I still play Ganondorf sometimes) against chars like Falcon, Dedede, Kirby, etc. The Lucina buffs were just as huge as Marths and people need to stop being ignorant about them. Marth and Lucina can give Cloud a hard time too if play properly thanks to their fair buff. I chose Lucina out of personally enjoying her (Ganondorf isnt good despite my love of him sorry). But I see Ike as a good alternative in all honesty against some MUs. I should go into more depth cause that seems simple. Its not just me liking her. Its range, reliable combos, and off stage stupid fair and more.

Also for secondary options? Honestly I just go with characters that still have said range, but can recover better. I know that sounds simple but in certain mus where we NEED to recovery and dont want to die at zero *cough* falcon *cough* Its often better to go with certain chars.

Heres my personal chart for tournament play btw.
View attachment 98128

You out to get me, boy? The Dream Land crew always prevails.

Yeaaaah I had a feeling that "co-maining" as they would call it wasn't such a good idea. I already thought I grew past the idea of having a whopping six "mains", but apparently even three characters is a little too much. Such a shame; I like Roy and Cloud, but both have exploitable weaknesses and aren't solo viable. Since Cloud is already getting a crap ton of results regardless, maybe I should just switch him with another high tier main who can cover Roy.

When finding a secondary, do you find the weaknesses of your main then find a character that can cover said weaknesses?

That's practically what having a secondary means... so yeah.

Honestly go Lucina or Marth. They got enough buffs that I see them as very VERY viable now. They do everything Roy did but a ton better imo.

Marth got 5th at the latest KTAR, so I guess that's something.

I still don't think Marth is anything better than mid-tier at this point. He still suffers from poor reward on throws and a mediocre neutral. I wish fair had a more favorable autocancel window along with his other aerials but it's moreso a nitpick if anything else. If he gets more consistent higher placings in regionals/nationals then my opinion on him will prolly be swayed. Lucina's not gonna get any significant rep soon because most high-level players see no reason to play as her when Marth has a larger advantage and reward than her.

 

[Lady Kuki]

Honestly go Lucina or Marth. They got enough buffs that I see them as very VERY viable now. They do everything Roy did but a ton better imo.

Ehhhh... Never really was big on Marcina. I like Roy's playstyle much more. Plus, Marth and Lucina already kind of have dedicated players and results, even before the patch came. I know that Roy is probably pretty bad compared to them now, but I want to see if it's possible to get some kind of results with him. Worst case scenario: If I end up not getting anywhere with Roy, I could just drop him like I did with Shulk and use him in less serious fights. I don't see any harm in trying to develop the meta of an undeveloped character, even if they're not very good. =P

 

[Deleted member]

Ehhhh... Never really was big on Marcina. I like Roy's playstyle much more. Plus, Marth and Lucina already kind of have dedicated players and results, even before the patch came. I know that Roy is probably pretty bad compared to them now, but I want to see if it's possible to get some kind of results with him. Worst case scenario: If I end up not getting anywhere with Roy, I could just drop him like I did with Shulk and use him in less serious fights. I don't see any harm in trying to develop the meta of an undeveloped character, even if they're not very good. =P

If it's one thing I've learned about maining low tiers is that in the long run, you have to choose between winning when it matters or your character. It's practically your own personal choice, I've personally been using Dedede less and less in tourney because I've pretty much come to terms that he's unviable and has bad MUs with practically any relevant character (he loses to ****ing Zelda), and I get way more success using .

 

[Strong-Arm]

I think Cloud will have a harder and harder time as time goes on. Once people optimize punishing him itll be very difficult for him. Its already showing. Also another thing is that low tiers in this game are NOT as bad as low tiers were in other games. Just saying.

 

[Deleted member]

I think Cloud will have a harder and harder time as time goes on. Once people optimize punishing him itll be very difficult for him. Its already showing. Also another thing is that low tiers in this game are NOT as bad as low tiers were in other games. Just saying.

Well, yeah. Even if this game is far more balanced from the others (Brawl's balancing was cartoonishly bad, Melee's too), it's still pretty easy to tell out bad/mediocre characters from the viable ones. That said even most bottom or low tier characters can do well on a local or sometimes regional level, they'll just consistently struggle in top level since they simply lack the tools to compete.

 

[Strong-Arm]

Cloud does fine, but as players we need to be careful about handling other characters. I think we still have a long way to go. Ive heard players laugh about some MUs or make out some MUs to not be that bad, when in reality they very much are. Cloud is good, but hes no Shiek or ZSS

 

[Deleted member]

Cloud does fine, but as players we need to be careful about handling other characters. I think we still have a long way to go. Ive heard players laugh about some MUs or make out some MUs to not be that bad, when in reality they very much are. Cloud is good, but hes no Shiek or ZSS

Pretty much. I think Cloud is a very solid character but his meta is not even close to being fully discovered as it is now, he's only been out for three months. A lot can happen to him, especially as more people learn the matchup and learn to take advantage of his bad survivability offstage and lack of reliable KOing options without Limit (or Rage in some cases, like an up air or something).

 

[Strong-Arm]

If you looked at my chart the chars I put 50/50 with are undecided as of now, while the go Lucina basically means go a secondary because those MUs will be pretty difficult for Cloud. I can go into depth with any of them if asked. But people need to be careful as to not pretend that our weaknesses are as glaring as they are.

 

[Deleted member]

If you looked at my chart the chars I put 50/50 with are undecided as of now, while the go Lucina basically means go a secondary because those MUs will be pretty difficult for Cloud. I can go into depth with any of them if asked. But people need to be careful as to not pretend that our weaknesses are as glaring as they are.

I wanted to ask why go Lucina for Dedede. Cloud is literally a -2 or worse MU for Dedede lol. Cloud is also a pretty terrible MU for Kirby considering his poor approach options and having almost nothing to challenge most disjoints in the game. Sure Kirby can crouch, but Cloud has Blade Bleam and dtilt.

 

[Strong-Arm]

I have poyo in my region as well as King who is one of the best Dedede players Ive ever seen. Cloud vs Kirby can go south fast. If kirby shields anything and gets a grab Cloud is going to have an awful time. Theory craft all you want but Cloud has pretty meh air mobility and kirby has a really good grab game. The drill is a night mare too for cloud as well as a multitude of other gimping methods.

Dedede is a character im undecided on as of now honestly. He should be in the 50/50 actually now that i look at it. Personally I prefer Lucina cause I can get in his face with nair, fair, etc. But Cloud shouldnt be too scared of Dedede.

 

[Deleted member]

I have poyo in my region as well as King who is one of the best Dedede players Ive ever seen. Cloud vs Kirby can go south fast. If kirby shields anything and gets a grab Cloud is going to have an awful time. Theory craft all you want but Cloud has pretty meh air mobility and kirby has a really good grab game. The drill is a night mare too for cloud as well as a multitude of other gimping methods.

Dedede is a character im undecided on as of now honestly. He should be in the 50/50 actually now that i look at it. Personally I prefer Lucina cause I can get in his face with nair, fair, etc. But Cloud shouldnt be too scared of Dedede.

All fair points.

Cloud is more effective against Dedede though. Dedede's bair outranges practically anything Lucina has and comes out deceptively fast. That, and Dedede's grab game is pretty good overall at low percents (he can do fastfalled up air chains into regrabs for work for a good amount of time). Lucina's recovery isn't very good either, so D3 can go for an edgeguard and come back onstage with very little risk considering he has 4 midair jumps and an up-B with super armor frames. Lucina has the advantage over Marth in the MU on needing to land tippers to kill Dedede but D3 still wins over Lucy solidly. Putting him in 50/50 sounds reasonable.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Fastfall uair > regrab isn't guaranteed. Opponent can spotdodge, roll, and/or jump away after they're dragged down. They can also mix up what side they come out on.

Still not a bad option at low-ish percentages, though. Just treat it like a mixup.

Smooth Criminal

 

[TTTTTsd]

Cloud's neutral game IMO is far too obnoxious and ridiculous for him to ever not be viable. Talk about how his offstage will be exploited but we're one year in and we've barely developed edgeguards on a universal level (because Smash 4 does not reward these very much honestly, that's a whole other discussion) and I've only ever seen Cloud get gimped when he's forced to dip low which does not happen on a largely frequent basis.

There is a point to be made, yes the character will obviously see counterplay as time goes on but if his neutral game keeps developing the way it is and more than likely will, it's going to be very minimal compared to what you can do in return to your opponent. He has one of the best neutrals in the game I'd wager, and in a game like Smash 4 where your neutral is SO SO SO important, this is a boon.

Just my two cents but I don't think he's going to go down very far. This character's only ever going to drop if he doesn't dominate or win neutral consistently and I haven't much a reason to think that this will not be a common occurrence. I've only come to this conclusion by learning how to play patiently with Cloud.

The beauty is that all of your disjoints come out at a speed where you can play reactionary and be in proper range. That is ****ing incredible for a sword character ESPECIALLY one with high mobility.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

The main thing to keep in mind when using Cloud is that you're heavily reliant on Limit Break for Cloud's recovery. As such, Cloud hates edge-guarding with a passion, and you don't want to be reckless with your special moves while in Limit Break mode either.

Simply put, if Cloud gets edge-guarded after using a Limit Break boosted Climhazzard, he's pretty much a goner, which makes having to make safe landings a massive priority for him.

 

[-m0]

I'm back. Sorry that it took me so long. I feel lighter. Maybe I lost some weight, all that dilly-dallying.

I'm back guys! I missed a lot of stuff, but know that I've read it all.
I went to another tournament, and I can feel myself getting better! My reading skills are definitely improving! There was this casual 13-14 year old kid that was like, "all four of you guys can play at the same time right?" and we were all like "uh no, kinda trying to get actually useful practice in..." I did play him in an 8-stock match and I styled on him so hard... Is it wrong to style on a casual? Whatever, I got a SICK SH nair -> offstage nair -> DJ fair spike. It was sexy as hell lol. I was able to get the better of that Robin I had trouble with earlier in Cloud dittos, I got a nice nair -> rage-boosted Finishing Touch for a comeback the last game. He didn't tech it, and for that he DIED! :D

@advent Children
@Swampertrulz I didn't play FFVII, and the only things I knew about it was what I had read in this thread, and I enjoyed Advent Children Complete a lot, and I was able to grasp the story pretty well (but the action scenes were the absolute best)

@Mods
@GHNeko I think you'd make a great mod. I was thinking I could be a mod too lol, I'm at least active enough to be one... but I'm probably too new.

@Notable Cloud players
I think our notable Clouds here are TTTTTsd , @GHNeko , and @Chalice . I don't know Smooth Criminal and Strong-Arm well enough to judge, but I feel like they know what they're talking about. This brings up a sort of problem I've been having. I've been exclusively using and researching Cloud since he came out, and I'd say I'm almost tournament level. Yet when somebody uses Cloud on FG (and I can clearly tell they're not on the same level as me) and it's clearly a pocket Cloud, they do pretty much the same thing I do, though usually with more rolling lol. I think this is because I have different mindsets when playing against computers than I do when I'm playing against tournament players, and a different mindset when I'm in FG. I want to play like I don against computers; I'm much more confident and I feel like that's where I shine. But I can't in tournament. I'm assuming since it's still relatively new to me, I'm still nervous - but I'm not sure. Anybody have tips or something for this? Anybody experienced something similar?

The main thing to keep in mind when using Cloud is that you're heavily reliant on Limit Break for Cloud's recovery. As such, Cloud hates edge-guarding with a passion, and you don't want to be reckless with your special moves while in Limit Break mode either.

Simply put, if Cloud gets edge-guarded after using a Limit Break boosted Climhazzard, he's pretty much a goner, which makes having to make safe landings a massive priority for him.

Not really, If you save your jump you're all good, but normally you don't. That's why you use the hitlag sweetspot tech I found/let people know about to get damage and safely recover.

 

[mario123007]

Ok real talk. Bayonetta is going to be a nightmare for us

Sorry for quoting an old post, this thread got off radar ever since I play Cloud on my brother's Wii U, a week ago I finally got him on my 3DS.
I found myself can't get Cloud's range and timing right. Looks like I need stick on him for awhile.

I've continued to play around with Cloud, and it seems that while Finishing Touch is able to deliver strong knockback, the rewards are a lot better if you use the other special moves instead.

And of course, I like to try out customizations, so I did up the following for Cloud...

Lo-Jump is probably one of the few negative bonus effects that aren't too detrimental to the fighter, as it only weakens your fighter's ground jumps, while his/her mid-air jumps remain unaffected.

I often found my Cloud has bad luck when using the Adven costume... maybe it's just me...

 

[-m0]

Oh and @GHNeko the Ike boards discussed the Cloud MU recently and I helped out so if you want to go there and quote/just look at some of the post for your discord discussion, go ahead, just to let you know

 

[CrimsonRick117]

Oh and @GHNeko the Ike boards discussed the Cloud MU recently and I helped out so if you want to go there and quote/just look at some of the post for your discord discussion, go ahead, just to let you know

Discussions already ended yesterday, but thanks anyway for the heads up.

 

[TTTTTsd]

Oh, on the note of mods, I applied as well. So honestly, there's a strong chance that someone good will get the spot given that the other people who I know applied I would also trust with the job of overseeing these boards.

Soon, everyone. Soon.

 

[CrimsonRick117]

Oh, on the note of mods, I applied as well. So honestly, there's a strong chance that someone good will get the spot given that the other people who I know applied I would also trust with the job of overseeing these boards.

Soon, everyone. Soon.

That makes 3 of us now you, me and GHNeko. Not too familiar with you, but I've seen you on the boards before and you seem like a good person. Let's just keep that kind of info strictly confidential for now and good luck my friend.

 

[Strong-Arm]

I'm back guys! I missed a lot of stuff, but know that I've read it all.
I went to another tournament, and I can feel myself getting better! My reading skills are definitely improving! There was this casual 13-14 year old kid that was like, "all four of you guys can play at the same time right?" and we were all like "uh no, kinda trying to get actually useful practice in..." I did play him in an 8-stock match and I styled on him so hard... Is it wrong to style on a casual? Whatever, I got a SICK SH nair -> offstage nair -> DJ fair spike. It was sexy as hell lol. I was able to get the better of that Robin I had trouble with earlier in Cloud dittos, I got a nice nair -> rage-boosted Finishing Touch for a comeback the last game. He didn't tech it, and for that he DIED! :D

@advent Children
@Swampertrulz I didn't play FFVII, and the only things I knew about it was what I had read in this thread, and I enjoyed Advent Children Complete a lot, and I was able to grasp the story pretty well (but the action scenes were the absolute best)

@Mods
@GHNeko I think you'd make a great mod. I was thinking I could be a mod too lol, I'm at least active enough to be one... but I'm probably too new.

@Notable Cloud players
I think our notable Clouds here are TTTTTsd , @GHNeko , and @Chalice . I don't know Smooth Criminal and Strong-Arm well enough to judge, but I feel like they know what they're talking about. This brings up a sort of problem I've been having. I've been exclusively using and researching Cloud since he came out, and I'd say I'm almost tournament level. Yet when somebody uses Cloud on FG (and I can clearly tell they're not on the same level as me) and it's clearly a pocket Cloud, they do pretty much the same thing I do, though usually with more rolling lol. I think this is because I have different mindsets when playing against computers than I do when I'm playing against tournament players, and a different mindset when I'm in FG. I want to play like I don against computers; I'm much more confident and I feel like that's where I shine. But I can't in tournament. I'm assuming since it's still relatively new to me, I'm still nervous - but I'm not sure. Anybody have tips or something for this? Anybody experienced something similar?

Not really, If you save your jump you're all good, but normally you don't. That's why you use the hitlag sweetspot tech I found/let people know about to get damage and safely recover.

Itll take you a long time to get accustomed to tournament players. Theyre very different from FG and computers. To be honest just go in. Smash 4 in all truth doesnt require any technical know how (no Lcanceling, no wavedashing, etc)but its a battle like chess. Outsmart and adapt to your opponent. You never know how well you can do until you go out and try it. My advice is to just goto tournaments and do the best you can, talk to people and get involved and practice against people.

 

[7NATOR]

What's it like being in a tournament, with all the waiting and expensive everything and then feeling FELLING ABSOLUTE SALT WHEN YOU GET BODIED IN THE VERY LAST MATCH OF THE GRAND FINALS BY A AIR KO PUNCH.

My only experience playing against people is on for glory, and with people locally.... 3/5 with items, no fox, not final destination

 

[Tino]

If I ever get in a tournament, I will never get salty with the results because I don't play Smash to win. Too bad there isn't a Smash scene here in Spartanburg.

For Glory is filled with blasphemy over there, mostly by players who use the game tags to either call you out or insult you (or both). It's a good thing I don't play in that hellhole everyday and I'm more comfortable playing online Smash with friends and with people who I can trust.

 

[7NATOR]

But for me, its my only way of not playing the cpu on a daily basis

besides, its always fun to body people with characters you wouldn't normally see in tournaments
You know, Make them all salty and stuff

KING DEDEDE,JI DOUBLE G LY PU DOUBLE F, SHULK, DUCK HUNT,ETC