Official 4BR Tier List V4 - Competitive Insight & Analysis

[Prince Koopa Jr]

I still think Link has certain areas he is better in, mostly range and general kill power. I look forward to seeing both succeed at Hyrule Saga, as I want to see a top 8 appearance from at least one main of each.

T's Link is a sight to behold, he really just understands the character on such a high caliber. Definitely one of Japan's most talented players.

 

[Das Koopa]

https://smashboards.com/threads/smash-4-power-rankings-directory-project-2-0.445794/

PR database more or less fully updated

 

[MarioManTAW]

I'm not MarioMan, but he gave me the go-ahead to post these:

Spoiler: S tiers

View attachment 140027
A couple things to note: Results with an asterisk by their name were not counted, since I'm pretty sure that means it was a secondary. This really only majorly affected Cloud and Falco, though. Also, I mistakenly read Wario's results as S tier and not A tier, so Wario should actually be in the lowest category. Please keep that in mind. The biggest outliers here for me are Link and Mr. Game and Watch. Link is fairly self-explanatory with T's 3rd at Civil War, but G/W seems to be a really under the radar character. What's up with him? I included the Rizeasu category for Doc because it's very likely Rizeasu could do well at S tiers with Doc as a primary and like 4 other characters for backup.

Additional list with full placements instead of broad categories:
View attachment 140035

Spoiler: S and A tiers

View attachment 140033
I weighted it so that a higher placement at an A tier was about as good as a slightly lower placement at an S tier. There isn't a whole lot of notable change (If you top 8'd an S tier you didn't change at all, and no character won an A tier that didn't also top 8 an S tier. The biggest change here was Mii Gunner.

And before anyone asks, the ordering in tiers is alphabetical.

Could be talk about Mr. Game and Watch? He's done fairly well, but I feel like we never mention him.

Good job! Also, FYI, asterisk means other characters were used prominently. While this could indicate the character being used only as a secondary, it could also be just a primary character with a secondary.

 

[Prince Koopa Jr]

https://smashboards.com/threads/smash-4-power-rankings-directory-project-2-0.445794/

PR database more or less fully updated

Thanks for posting the database Das, it is appreciated.

 

[Finh009]

Karisuma 18 (79 Entrants) (Chubu, Japan)
Bracket: https://challonge.com/karisuma18T

1st. T
2nd. Yuzu
3rd. Yakara
4th. kept
5th. DIO
5th. Sigma
7th. Majinger
7th. Fuwa

Spoiler: Rest of Top 16

9th. HIKARU
9th. Tsubasa
9th. Tsu~
9th. taranito
13th. Ankoro
13th. Hatsuyuki
13th. Nojinko
13th. DoubleA

 

[Iridium]

Karisuma 18 (79 Entrants) (Chubu, Japan)
Bracket: https://challonge.com/karisuma18T

1st. T
2nd. Yuzu
3rd. Yakara
4th. kept
5th. DIO
5th. Sigma
7th. Majinger
7th. Fuwa

Spoiler: Rest of Top 16

9th. HIKARU
9th. Tsubasa
9th. Tsu~
9th. taranito
13th. Ankoro
13th. Hatsuyuki
13th. Nojinko
13th. DoubleA

This was very great to watch. I just to know how exactly does the Link-Toon Link MU work? T has recently been destroying almost every good Toon Link in Japan: Ri-ma, Hayato. and now Sigma.

 

[Prince Koopa Jr]

This was very great to watch. I just to know how exactly does the Link-Toon Link MU work? T has recently been destroying almost every good Toon Link in Japan: Ri-ma, Hayato. and now Sigma.

Its great to see that T is in top 16, I wonder if he'll take the tournament.

 

[The_Bookworm]

I agree, toon link is a very capable character, possessing better mobility than Link and having superb setups off of bombs and his zoning ability is great. It'll be interesting to see how well the Tink mains perform at Hyrule saga.

Toon Link being the better character is almost undisputed. I am saying that despite Toon Link being a very capable character, winning the whole thing with those top tier users around seems unlikely.

 

[Iridium]

I also want to note how both T and Sigma had to beat Yuzu in GFs to win their Karisuma. Also, T vs. Yuzu in GFs was probably the hypest set I have seen in a while. T legitimately could become a top 10 player in Japan in time.

 

[WiFi]

Toon Link's bombs can combo into almost anything. They are the second best spawned item after Diddy's Banana. T only beats Toon Links because he's a very good player. Toon Link and Link go even with each other, mostly because though Link outranges Tink, Toon Link's punish game on Link is absolutely insane. Most people don't realize that Link is a fastfaller, with the 3rd fastest fallspeed in the game, allowing Toon Link to get Link to 50% with Up-tilt alone. Also, Toon Link's Up-tilt is crazy and is probably the best Up-tilt in the game.

 

[Nah]

Most people don't realize that Link is a fastfaller, with the 3rd fastest fallspeed in the game, allowing Toon Link to get Link to 50% with Up-tilt alone.

What you're thinking of is his fastfall speed, which is what is the 3rd highest in the game, because, for whatever reason, his speed nearly doubles when Link inputs a fastfall. His regular fall speed is 24th-27th in the game, slightly above average.

 

[WiFi]

Oh, but still, big hurtbox+ Up-tilt= Lot's of percent.

 

[The_Bookworm]

I also want to note how both T and Sigma had to beat Yuzu in GFs to win their Karisuma. Also, T vs. Yuzu in GFs was probably the hypest set I have seen in a while. T legitimately could become a top 10 player in Japan in time.

If T does become a top 10 player in Japan, not only it will make Japan seem like a weirder region than it already is with their mid tier characters, but it will solidify Link's position in the tier list.

 

[Rizen]

Toon Link's bombs can combo into almost anything. They are the second best spawned item after Diddy's Banana. T only beats Toon Links because he's a very good player. Toon Link and Link go even with each other, mostly because though Link outranges Tink, Toon Link's punish game on Link is absolutely insane. Most people don't realize that Link is a fastfaller, with the 3rd fastest fallspeed in the game, allowing Toon Link to get Link to 50% with Up-tilt alone. Also, Toon Link's Up-tilt is crazy and is probably the best Up-tilt in the game.

Link's bombs are objectively better than TL's. Link's bombs do more damage which means more hitstun. They can be planted; TL's bombs always explode when the contact the ground. Link's bombs also aid recovery with slightly shorter fuses. Link can true combo bombs>Fair just like TL. TL has the combo advantage because his higher jumps, better air acceleration and f5 jumpsquat (vs Link's f7).

Nah covered Link's fall speed. TL's Utilt gets more like 30% on Link. IMO Ganon has the best Utilt.

...JK it's Fox. His is f3 and can 2 frame ledge grabs if I'm not mistaken.

IMO TL slightly beats Link. TL can outcamp by virtue of mobility and a boomerang with a returning hitbox and wider angles. Link is terrible at chasing down opponents.

 

[Routa]

Speaking of spawned items... Diddy's banana isn't that great. While tripping is great... that is all it can do. What makes Banana seem so great is thanks to Diddy's amazing throw data along with him throwing very low. That + his great ground mobility make Banana look like the greatest projectile ever even tho it is outclassed by Bombs and Metal Blade in every situation and Bike along with Pac-Man's fruits in some situations.
I would go as far and claim Banana to be 2nd worst spawned projectile after the Turnips.

 

[Skeeter Mania]

Also, Toon Link's Up-tilt is crazy and is probably the best Up-tilt in the game.

Are we forgetting Fox, Ryu, and Kirby exist? Maybe also Bayo?

...JK it's Fox. His is f3 and can 2 frame ledge grabs if I'm not mistaken.

...JK it's Fox. His is f3 and can 2 frame ledge grabs if I'm not mistaken.

Again, forgetting someone?

 

[WiFi]

Fox's Up-tilt is much better than Ryu's. Ryu's despite having a large hitbox, it is only good for True Shoryuken confirms while Fox's Up-tilt is massively disjointed to the point it hits in front of him, frametraps by literally hitting the opponent, catches ledge getups, combos into everybody's favorite 16% Up-Air strings, vortexes, combos into itself, kills at higher percents and much more. I'd go so far as to say that Fox wouldn't be top tier without that move, as its his best grounded move. Without Up-tilt, Fox can't do half the things he can do in neutral or advantage. Most of his good combos would be gone as well.

Toon link still has a top 5 Up-tilt though...

Edit: Bayonetta's Up-tilt is a slightly better version of Mario's, but nowhere near as good as Fox, Kirby, Ryu, or Toon Link's.

 

[The_Bookworm]

Fox's Up-tilt is much better than Ryu's. Ryu's despite having a large hitbox, is only good for True Shoryuken confirms while Fox's Up-tilt is massively disjointed to the point it hits in front of him, frametraps by literally hitting the opponent, catches ledge getups, combos into everybody's favorite 16% Up-Air strings, vortexes, combos into itself, kills at higher percents and much more. I'd go so far as to say that Fox wouldn't be top tier without that move, as its his best grounded move. Without Up-tilt, Fox can't do half the things he can do in neutral or advantage. Most of his good combos would be gone as well.

Toon link still has a top 5 Up-tilt though...

Edit: Bayonetta's Up-tilt is a slightly better version of Mario's, but nowhere near as good as Fox, Kirby, Ryu, or Toon Link's.

How is Bayo's up tilt better than Mario's? Her up tilt hitbox is worse, and has two individual hits in which they don't always connect with eachother (although it usually does at most scenarios).

 

[WiFi]

How is Bayo's up tilt better than Mario's? Her up tilt hitbox is worse, and has two individual hits in which they don't always connect with eachother (although it usually does at most scenarios).

Combos into Witch Twist, which is a much better advantage situation than Mario's Up-Air to Up-B 50-50s. It also doesn't require rage jank to kill like Mario stuff does. Individually, Mario's is technically better, but given the character's entire kit, Bayonetta's Up-tilt leads to one of the best advantage states in the game, that is, doing Bayo combos with Witch Twist and ABK.

 

[ArnoldPalmer]

Toon Link's bombs can combo into almost anything. They are the second best spawned item after Diddy's Banana. T only beats Toon Links because he's a very good player. Toon Link and Link go even with each other, mostly because though Link outranges Tink, Toon Link's punish game on Link is absolutely insane. Most people don't realize that Link is a fastfaller, with the 3rd fastest fallspeed in the game, allowing Toon Link to get Link to 50% with Up-tilt alone. Also, Toon Link's Up-tilt is crazy and is probably the best Up-tilt in the game.

Links bombs also combo into almost everything and can be thrown in a way that they dont explode when they hit the ground allowing him to set up landing traps toon link can only dream of
Link also has 50%+ combos out of bombs and potential 0-deaths thanks to footstool stuff that he can pull off thanks to his high fast fall speed and sex kick nair
Im not saying he's a better character, but his bombs are a stronger tool imo

 

[The_Bookworm]

Links bombs also combo into almost everything and can be thrown in a way that they dont explode
Link also has 50%+ combos out of bombs and potential 0-deaths thanks to footstool stuff that he can pull off thanks to his high fast fall speed and sex kick nair
Im not saying he's a better character, but his bombs are a stronger tool imo

Some of those combos require set ups and reads to do.

 

[WiFi]

Links bombs also combo into almost everything and can be thrown in a way that they dont explode when they hit the ground allowing him to set up landing traps toon link can only dream of
Link also has 50%+ combos out of bombs and potential 0-deaths thanks to footstool stuff that he can pull off thanks to his high fast fall speed and sex kick nair
Im not saying he's a better character, but his bombs are a stronger tool imo

Yes. But are those combos easy to pull off and are guaranteed at high levels of play to work? No. Diddy's Banana combos are 100% guaranteed and are not technically demanding whatsoever. Banana also isn't a bad item. It gives Diddy free combos and can act as a combo breaker itself, as it clanks with a lot of moves. I also play Fox, a character with similar fast-fall footstool stuff and I can tell you, there is a reason why you rarely see this stuff at high levels of play. It's because it's hard to pull off and it isn't guaranteed like Diddy's Bananas. T's use of Bombs is much more optimal than say, Izaw's usage of bombs. Due to the mechanic of Smash as a whole, 0-deaths are very difficult to do and as a result aren't used too much at high levels. (Unless you are a Bayonetta, Mario, or Zero Suit main).

 

[Prince Koopa Jr]

Links bombs also combo into almost everything and can be thrown in a way that they dont explode when they hit the ground allowing him to set up landing traps toon link can only dream of
Link also has 50%+ combos out of bombs and potential 0-deaths thanks to footstool stuff that he can pull off thanks to his high fast fall speed and sex kick nair
Im not saying he's a better character, but his bombs are a stronger tool imo

Link can really create greater traps with his bombs, especially when using the tech known as bomb sliding. T always makes the best use out of his bombs and gets many high damaging combos off of them, they are a very versatile projectile. Also, both Tink and Link can use the explosion from a held bomb to have their double jump/up b restored.

 

[Iridium]

If T does become a top 10 player in Japan, not only it will make Japan seem like a weirder region than it already is with their mid tier characters, but it will solidify Link's position in the tier list.

Honestly, he has been doing a lot better than some of the players above him, such as Earth and ikep.

 

[Skeeter Mania]

Ryu's despite having a large hitbox, it is only good for True Shoryuken confirms

It's also a good anti-air and combos into more than just True Shoyuken. Plus there's its high effectiveness against fast-fallers.

 

[ArnoldPalmer]

Yes. But are those combos easy to pull off and are guaranteed at high levels of play to work? No. Diddy's Banana combos are 100% guaranteed and are not technically demanding whatsoever. Banana also isn't a bad item. It gives Diddy free combos and can act as a combo breaker itself, as it clanks with a lot of moves. I also play Fox, a character with similar fast-fall footstool stuff and I can tell you, there is a reason why you rarely see this stuff at high levels of play. It's because it's hard to pull off and it isn't guaranteed like Diddy's Bananas. T's use of Bombs is much more optimal than say, Izaw's usage of bombs. Due to the mechanic of Smash as a whole, 0-deaths are very difficult to do and as a result aren't used too much at high levels. (Unless you are a Bayonetta, Mario, or Zero Suit main).

This is true but i was kind of comparing links bombs to tinks
And you dont have to 0-death off of a bomb, 40-50% is just fine and not particularly hard to do

 

[WiFi]

This is true but i was kind of comparing links bombs to tinks
And you dont have to 0-death off of a bomb, 40-50% is just fine and not particularly hard to do

Sorry, you mentioned 0-deaths. Misunderstanding. Still, Banana is a good item, and it's the reason why Diddy has the best neutral in the game. While Link's combos aren't particularly difficult, Banana combos are dumb easy.

 

[Emblem Lord]

I am willing to argue that Bayo's utilt is better than Ryu's.

Not as safe as Ryu's but still quite safe, good disjoint, cannot really challenge, better hitbox (Ryu's only hit's above his waste, so you just hit his legs. Super easy to counter poke)

 

[The_Bookworm]

Apparently in Collision XV, Salem lost to Koolaid and is sitting in the loser's bracket.

 

[Prince Koopa Jr]

Apparently in Collision XV, Salem lost to Koolaid and is sitting in the loser's bracket.

Will a sheik take this tournament, we'll have to wait and see. Its interesting to hear that Salem is now in Losers.

 

[The_Bookworm]

Will a sheik take this tournament, we'll have to wait and see. Its interesting to hear that Salem is now in Losers.

Also Dark Wizzy defeats Marss, but both are in top 8.

Winners
Light

Losers
Nairo
Marss

1st:
2nd:
3rd:
4th: Odyssey
5th: Dabuz
5th: Dark Wizzy
7th: Vivid
7th: Salem
9th: 6wx
9th: Koolaid
9th: Shoyo James (DQ'ed at Vivid match due to hand problem)
9th: Ralphie
13th: Sinji
13th: Vivi
13th: TGG
13th: Suarez
17th: BlazingPasta (Yes him, not TGG)
17th: Angel Cortez
17th: Sync
17th: Raptor
17th: SDX
17th: Law
17th: Scot!
17th: Roxas
25th: Wraith (Not to be confused with the Sonic player)
25th: Uno
25th: Frozen
25th: Unknown
25th: Gen
25th: Mr. E
25th: Riz
25th: Arhungry

 

[JustCallMeJon]

Also Dark Wizzy defeats Marss, but both are in top 8.

Winners
Nairo
Dabuz
Light
Dark Wizzy

Losers
Marss
justy
Salem
(Winner of Koolaid vs Odyssey)

9th: 6wx
9th: (Loser of Koolaid vs Odyssey)
9th: Shoyo James (DQ'ed at justy match)
9th: Ralphie
13th: Sinji
13th: Vivi
13th: TGG
13th: Suarez
17th: BlazingPasta (Yes him, not TGG)
17th: Angel Cortez
17th: Sync
17th: Raptor
17th: SDX
17th: Law
17th: Scot!
17th: Roxas
25th: Wraith (Not to be confused with the Sonic player)
25th: Uno
25th: Frozen
25th: Unknown
25th: Gen
25th: Mr. E
25th: Riz
25th: Arhungry

Just to let you know, Odyssey is a Fox main

 

[The_Bookworm]

Light defeats Dabuz 3-1

 

[Minordeth]

Oh my gooooood, Light finally took a clean set off of Dabuz. He reigned in some of those impulses that got him in trouble the last few times.

 

[Prince Koopa Jr]

Light defeats Dabuz 3-1

Light must have really improved by a significant margin to be able to defeat Dabuz a top 5 player in smash 4 3-1.

 

[Iridium]

Light defeats Dabuz 3-1

smash.gg lists it as 3-2. Was this on stream?

 

[The_Bookworm]

smash.gg lists it as 3-2. Was this on stream?

Yes. It is a small error on Smash gg's part.

Also the Vivid Lucas was surprising, but it worked only to an extent.

 

[Iridium]

Marss 3-1 Salem

 

[The-Technique]

Marrs 3 - 1 Salem in top 8 losers

So...who's the one that said Salem was gonna win it all? :^)

 

[MarioManTAW]

Regi, a Mexican Mr. Game & Watch player, placed 13th at Nairo Saga (S Tier). After that, no Game & Watch placed anything 13th or higher on a major until Maister's 13th place at GENESIS 5.

Another interesting note about that: both players beat Mistake at those respective tournaments.