Official 4BR Tier List v2.0 - Competitive Impressions

[Yikarur]

NHSmash 3, Alkmaar, Netherlands (123 Entrants)
1. Mr.R
2. Larry Lurr
3. S1
4. LoNg0uw
5. Badr
5. Ramses
7. Gregs
7. Meru

 

[valakmtnsmash4]

Genesis saga isnt the only thing happening tonight. Shulla-bra tokiagi qualifier is going on right now as well

Stream: http://live.nicovideo.jp/watch/lv287417670

Translated pools: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...PB9YSDLNof2chpyjr6o7A8ic8/edit#gid=1799085633 Notable players: Raito, Kome, Kirihara, OCEAN, Ri-Ma, Paru, FILIP, and DIO.

This tournament is happening in Kyushu, which is the far west of japan. So most top japan players arent there since its too far away and karisuma is yesterday. Kirihara is in attendance, so this should be interesting!

 

[FeelMeUp]

ZeRo played pretty terribly in teams and isn't looking too sharp in singles either.
Edit: Over a year later and ZeRo still can't DI ladder combos properly :/

 

[JB333]

Salty Arena Cup #3 (France, 60 entrants) https://smash.gg/tournament/salty-arena-cup-u-3/events/wii-u-singles/brackets/104316

1. Glutonny
2. Griffith
3. Elexiao
4. Ogey
5. ZHT
5. Vanaheim
7. B-Black
7. Anoer

 

[sups48]

Zero is ridiculous. Bowser is good but he isn't even top of high tier, he gets ruined by Villager and Mega man. He cant do anything because of pellets and metal blade. Tough guy helps but you just end always being out of range. Metal blade can consistently do 15 damage Z dropped and bowsers landing options are exploited even further with Up-Air. you know what just going to leave this here.

 

[Game7a1]

Invasion 11 (New England (CT), 76 Entrants) http://challonge.com/invasion11singles
1st Raffi-X
2nd Pugwest
3rd Light
4th Kuma
5th FP Kogarasuma
5th Hazmatt
7th HSG Craftis
7th UG Lingling
--------------------------------------------
Seems to be a good weekend for Sonic and ROB.

 

[TDK]

2GGC: Genesis Saga (466 Entrants) (Vegas?)

1st: TSM l ZeRo
2nd: 2GG l Komorikiri
3rd: CLG l VoiD
4th: Tweek
5th: FOX l MVG l MKleo ( Maybe ? )
5th: eM l Zenyou
7th: Yatta l JK
7th: Circa l 6WX
9th: SS l Mr. E
9th: K9sbruce
9th: Eon
9th: Javi
13th: RNG l Dabuz
13th: Rich Brown
13th: DSS
13th: DNL l Marss

----

Super Smash Geek #4 (72 Entrants) (Montreal, Quebec)
1st: SuperGirlKels
2nd: Venom
3rd: Holy
4th: DarkAura

Including SSG4 because it's as big as GUMS 12, which got its top 4 on @Das Koopa's rankings, so this should?



EDIT: Completely unrelated but Ayapero 2-0 Kirihara

I love Japan

 

[Aaron1997]

Don't blink because G4 is next week and Pools have been released
https://smash.gg/tournament/genesis-4/events/wii-u-singles/brackets

Projected round 2 pools

Wave 1

Dathvs JK
Ri-mavs VoiD
Pink Fresh vs Ryo or Afro Smash
Kamemevs Xaltisor Shaky

Wave 2

ANTIvs MVDor SS
Ned or Mister Eric vs 6WX
Abadangovs OCEAN or Mr Con Con
Samsoraor Jtailsvs Itoor TLTC

Wave 3

DarkShadLegendor Puppehvs Dyror Sinji
LarryLurrvs Kuroor 8bitman
Marssvs K9sbruce
Captain Zackvs Sajor Nyanko

Wave 4

Earthvs FOW
Dabuzvs Umekior SlayerZor Sol
ESAMor Aerolinkvs False
Komorikurivs Aarvarkor Hackoruor KOSSismoss

Wave 5

Zero has a bye and will play the winner Rain/Legit vs Brood/Dkwill
Rainor Legit vs Brood or DKwill
Mew2king vs Pugwest
Tweekvs Zenyou
Zinotovs Manny

Wave 6

Rich Brownvs Nakator Nick Riddle
Ranaivs Xzaxor James
Allyvs Regi
Locasor Raptorvs Falln

Wave 7

9Bvs Salem
Mr.Evs Elegent
Dayvs Scattor Raito
MKLeovs You3 or JJrockets


Wave 8

Mr.R has a Bye and will play the winner of Trevonte vs Fatality
Trevontevs Fatality
Tyrantvs Nietono
Nariovs Zanor DJ Jack

 

[TDK]

Damn all those Bayo team kills

Also Kuro making his international debut too? Geez.

 

[SaltyKracka]

ZeRo played pretty terribly in teams and isn't looking too sharp in singles either.
Edit: Over a year later and ZeRo still can't DI ladder combos properly :/

2GGC: Genesis Saga (466 Entrants) (Vegas?)

1st: TSM l ZeRo
2nd: 2GG l Komorikiri
3rd: CLG l VoiD
4th: Tweek
5th: FOX l MVG l MKleo ( Maybe ? )
5th: eM l Zenyou
7th: Yatta l JK
7th: Circa l 6WX
9th: SS l Mr. E
9th: K9sbruce
9th: Eon
9th: Javi
13th: RNG l Dabuz
13th: Rich Brown
13th: DSS
13th: DNL l Marss

----

Super Smash Geek #4 (72 Entrants) (Montreal, Quebec)
1st: SuperGirlKels
2nd: Venom
3rd: Holy
4th: DarkAura

Including SSG4 because it's as big as GUMS 12, which got its top 4 on @Das Koopa's rankings, so this should?



EDIT: Completely unrelated but Ayapero 2-0 Kirihara

I love Japan

The irony. It burns.

Anyways, can we just agree to lay to rest all the stupid "but cloud isn't actually all that good u gaiz" posts? As long as he keeps appearing in top placements with even half this much representation, he's going to be a top tier for the foreseeable future.

 

[blackghost]

Don't blink because G4 is next week and Pools have been released
https://smash.gg/tournament/genesis-4/events/wii-u-singles/brackets

Projected round 2 pools

Wave 1

Dathvs JK
Ri-mavs VoiD
Pink Fresh vs Ryo or Afro Smash
Kamemevs Xaltisor Shaky

Wave 2

ANTIvs MVDor SS
Ned or Mister Eric vs 6WX
Abadangovs OCEAN or Mr Con Con
Samsoraor Jtailsvs Itoor TLTC

Wave 3

DarkShadLegendor Puppehvs Dyror Sinji
LarryLurrvs Kuroor 8bitman
Marssvs K9sbruce
Captain Zackvs Saj

Wave 4

Earthvs FOW
Dabuzvs Umekior SlayerZor Sol
ESAMor Aerolinkvs False
Komorikurivs Aarvarkor Hackoruor KOSSismoss

Wave 5

Rainor Legit vs Brood or DKwill

Wave 6

Rich Brownvs Nakator Nick Riddle
Ranaivs Xzaxor James
Allyvs Regi
Locasor Raptorvs Falln

Wave 7

9Bvs Salem
Mr.Evs Elegent
Dayvs Scattor Raito
MKLeovs You3 or JJrockets


Wave 8

Trevontevs Fatality
Tyrantvs Nietono
Nariovs Zanor DJ Jack

ok this is a conspiracy. top three bayos foght each other?? seriously can diddy get the same treatment lol.

 

[Fenny]

Don't blink because G4 is next week and Pools have been released
https://smash.gg/tournament/genesis-4/events/wii-u-singles/brackets

Projected round 2 pools

Wave 1

Dathvs JK
Ri-mavs VoiD
Pink Fresh vs Ryo or Afro Smash
Kamemevs Xaltisor Shaky

Wave 2

ANTIvs MVDor SS
Ned or Mister Eric vs 6WX
Abadangovs OCEAN or Mr Con Con
Samsoraor Jtailsvs Itoor TLTC

Wave 3

DarkShadLegendor Puppehvs Dyror Sinji
LarryLurrvs Kuroor 8bitman
Marssvs K9sbruce
Captain Zackvs Saj

Wave 4

Earthvs FOW
Dabuzvs Umekior SlayerZor Sol
ESAMor Aerolinkvs False
Komorikurivs Aarvarkor Hackoruor KOSSismoss

Wave 5

Rainor Legit vs Brood or DKwill

Wave 6

Rich Brownvs Nakator Nick Riddle
Ranaivs Xzaxor James
Allyvs Regi
Locasor Raptorvs Falln

Wave 7

9Bvs Salem
Mr.Evs Elegent
Dayvs Scattor Raito
MKLeovs You3 or JJrockets


Wave 8

Trevontevs Fatality
Tyrantvs Nietono
Nariovs Zanor DJ Jack

>Two Bayo team kills

T R I G G E R E D

Does this have to happen like every major or something?

 

[Aaron1997]

Meanwhile in Japan..

Shulla-bra Tokaigi Qualifier (112 entrants)

1. Hiro
2. Raito
3. Paru
4. Ri-ma
5.Kurihara
5. FILIP
7.Ayapero
7.Yamanyon
9.Ahiru
9.Mattun
9.OCEAN
9.Suinoko
13.AtrociousK
13.Kome
13. Lucia
13.Nojinko

I got to say. The Japanese Duck Hunts are going to be the most dangerous players at g4. Raito Beating Kome, Ri-ma and FILIP while also taking Kurihara to game 3 last stock last hit is pretty impressive.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Mr. "Infinite Neutral" Ramin.
Good lord, this guy really is the worst top player at killing.

NHSmash 3, Alkmaar, Netherlands (123 Entrants)
1. Mr.R

ZeRo played pretty terribly in teams and isn't looking too sharp in singles either.

2GGC: Genesis Saga (466 Entrants) (Vegas?)

1st: TSM l ZeRo

Bro ....

 

[Nah]

Salty Arena Cup #3 (France, 60 entrants) https://smash.gg/tournament/salty-arena-cup-u-3/events/wii-u-singles/brackets/104316

3. Elexiao

Elexiao used Robin?

 

[FeelMeUp]

ZeRo playing poorly is still better than everyone, lol. Helps that he dodged Leo.
Posted the Mr. R thing after he won, as well.

 

[JB333]

Elexiao used Robin?

Yes, I think it was against Griffith. He may have also used Robin in pools, but I'm not quite sure.

 

[blackghost]

>Two Bayo team kills

T R I G G E R E D

Does this have to happen like every major or something?

the other impact is pink womt play mirrios he ussually plays another character. most bayo players hate that fight because shes so vulnerable to witch time

 

[Yikarur]

I'm still confident that Cloud belongs in that S-Tier Club House.

 

[Ziodyne 21]

the other impact is pink womt play mirrios he ussually plays another character. most bayo players hate that fight because shes so vulnerable to witch time

I find it amusing that one of Bayo's most troublesome MU's is.. herself lol

 

[Ziodyne 21]

Meanwhile in Japan..

Shulla-bra Tokaigi Qualifier (112 entrants)

1. Hiro
2. Raito
3. Paru
4. Ri-ma
5.Kurihara
5. FILIP
7.Ayapero
7.Yamanyon
9.Ahiru
9.Mattun
9.OCEAN
9.Suinoko
13.AtrociousK
13.Kome
13. Lucia
13.Nojinko

I got to say. The Japanese Duck Hunts are going to be the most dangerous players at g4. Raito Beating Kome, Ri-ma and FILIP while also taking Kurihara to game 3 last stock last hit is pretty impressive.

I am wondering the same think about these Japanese Bayo players like Ikep and Hiro here since they do very well at their homeland and aee how they fair if they attended more major nationals.

 

[The-Technique]

The irony. It burns.

Anyways, can we just agree to lay to rest all the stupid "but cloud isn't actually all that good u gaiz" posts? As long as he keeps appearing in top placements with even half this much representation, he's going to be a top tier for the foreseeable future.

I don't recall any posts saying Cloud isn't good, mainly that he isn't the overcentralizing monster that some people believe he is, especially considering that the majority of top 8s at majors consist of Diddy, Bayo, Sheik, Mario, ZSS, Sonic, and less often Mewtwo, Rosalina, and Cloud as a secondary, and even less often Cloud as a solo pick.

 

[ARISTOS]

Something to note: 50-41 of the PG Global Rankings was released: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLtigBYmIJg

6 out of that 10 were unranked last time around. While the game is now on its third year, we still have a lot of new players coming out and making a name for themselves.

 

[HoSmash4]

I find it amusing that one of Bayo's most troublesome MU's is.. herself lol

Well if your character loses to like 3 characters.... Go figure

Genesis 4 will be a very interesting tournament to observe. Personal picks to make deep runs (aside from the usual) are: kuro, nietono and 9b.

 

[Nathan Richardson]

Don't blink because G4 is next week and Pools have been released
https://smash.gg/tournament/genesis-4/events/wii-u-singles/brackets

Projected round 2 pools

Wave 1

Dathvs JK
Ri-mavs VoiD
Pink Fresh vs Ryo or Afro Smash
Kamemevs Xaltisor Shaky

Wave 2

ANTIvs MVDor SS
Ned or Mister Eric vs 6WX
Abadangovs OCEAN or Mr Con Con
Samsoraor Jtailsvs Itoor TLTC

Wave 3

DarkShadLegendor Puppehvs Dyror Sinji
LarryLurrvs Kuroor 8bitman
Marssvs K9sbruce
Captain Zackvs Saj

Wave 4

Earthvs FOW
Dabuzvs Umekior SlayerZor Sol
ESAMor Aerolinkvs False
Komorikurivs Aarvarkor Hackoruor KOSSismoss

Wave 5

Rainor Legit vs Brood or DKwill

Wave 6

Rich Brownvs Nakator Nick Riddle
Ranaivs Xzaxor James
Allyvs Regi
Locasor Raptorvs Falln

Wave 7

9Bvs Salem
Mr.Evs Elegent
Dayvs Scattor Raito
MKLeovs You3 or JJrockets


Wave 8

Trevontevs Fatality
Tyrantvs Nietono
Nariovs Zanor DJ Jack

Hrmm wait a minute, a name is missing on these lists....does Zero participate in this tourney? Sorry for sounding like a NOOB but I read these lists forwards and back.

 

[ShadowGuy1]

Hrmm wait a minute, a name is missing on these lists....does Zero participate in this tourney? Sorry for sounding like a NOOB but I read these lists forwards and back.

Zero is indeed attensing G4. Probably not on the list cause his matches weren't notable perhaps.

 

[Aaron1997]

N Nathan Richardson Some pools are not finalized. (Its why wave 5 and 8 have missing sets) Zero would play the winner of Rain/legit vs Dkwill/Brood. All the other round 2 matches are a lock.

Edit: This what wave 5 looks like

Rain or Legit vs Dkwill or Brood
Zero plays the winner of the above

Mew2king vs Pugwest
Tweekvs Zenyou
Zinotovs Manny

and in wave 8 Mr.R will play the winner of Trevonte vs Fatality. This is not finalized and the winner of Rain or Legit vs Dkwill or Brood might be playing vs Mr.R instead.

 

[my_T]

G4 pools looking rough for Ness. Top level Megaman, Sheik, Rosa, Pit, Corrin, Cloud and Sonic. Also lesser threats with Samus and G&W.

Somebody doesn't want this character to succeed

 

[Goombo]

G4 pools looking rough for Ness. Top level Megaman, Sheik, Rosa, Pit, Corrin, Cloud and Sonic. Also lesser threats with Samus and G&W.

Somebody doesn't want this character to succeed

With so many bad matchups, how should he not run into some of them?

 

[Peppermint1201]

G4 pools looking rough for Ness. Top level Megaman, Sheik, Rosa, Pit, Corrin, Cloud and Sonic. Also lesser threats with Samus and G&W.

Somebody doesn't want this character to succeed

When your list of bad matchups is this large, I think it's counterproductive to point and yell "bracket luck" when there's clearly an issue with Ness' ability to perform on a national level.

 

[JB333]

G4 pools looking rough for Ness. Top level Megaman, Sheik, Rosa, Pit, Corrin, Cloud and Sonic. Also lesser threats with Samus and G&W.

Somebody doesn't want this character to succeed

For a tournament with over 1,000 entrants... it doesn't look that bad for Ness mains. Now for Bayonetta mains and Fatality it does look pretty bad. Bayo cause of the Dittos and Fatality cause he's projected to face 2 high level sheiks in a row, before top 32.

 

[my_T]

Peppermint1201 Good point

Actually, now that I look at the other pools they all look kinda bad for a Ness main. Though, the pools that the Ness mains are in seem to be the worst pools for Ness to be in.

Taranito and S1 are going to be there as well so hopefully at least one of them can make it far

 

[FamilyTeam]

Hello people.
A few months ago I started following the Twitter page Lucina Memo, which is a bot that automatically posts pictures and videos of anything technical Lucina related in Smash 4, and it is quite frequently updated. Recently, the person that runs the bot, クロマキチャンネル (Kuromaki's Channel) uploaded this video, showing some obscure differences between Lucina and Marth:

A lot of this stuff is no news if you've been following this person's Twitter page, but some of it is. In sum, some of the most surprising things:

• For no discerinble reason at all, Marth rolls almost a whole step longer than Lucina. I haven't a clue why that is the case, but it is;
• Something funky's going on with their Shield Breaker range;
  
• Lucina's shorter height (0.92 units versus Marth's 0.96, source is one of my modder friends) actually allows her to hit crouching opponents and dodge projectiles slightly better, displayed in the video with Bayonetta's crouch and Robin's Thoron respectively, although it may work with others. Her shorter height, however, does make her snap to ledges very slightly less precisely;
• Lucina keeps slide momentum with Jab 1, Spotdodge, Up Tilt (not shown), Down Smash (not shown) and Shield Breaker (not shown), Marth only keeps his momentum with Shield Breaker. The rest sticks him to the ground. This means that Lucina can Perfect Pivot into those moves and slide quite a fair while using them (very useful in PP UTilt's case) while Marth will stick to the floor. As shown in the video, for the standing Up Tilt, Marth takes a step forward before the move while Lucina doesn't, but I guess the only practical difference this makes is that this really doesn't help him during the Perfect Pivot;

These are all small differences and I doubt any of them matter much, but still, it's good information to know.

 

[blackghost]

I find it amusing that one of Bayo's most troublesome MU's is.. herself lol

in canon that makes perfect sense lol. but honestly bayo is the one high tier whose MU chart feels like its getting much worse. luigi, bowser, shiek, link, tink, ness, lucas, and mario feel like they are characters that long term will gain favorable mus against her. luigi may already have one. i'm basing that onhow easily elegant has plowed through bayo players recently and luigi can edgegaurd and gimp her at any percent.
the combo characters in my list nullify batwithin to be a huge liability (especially shiek, luigi, and mario) becaus ethier superior movement speed and frame data allows for combo extensions.
also any one else suprised at pink's performance at gnenesis saga? losing at top 48?
im going to keep a close eye on not just the outcome of bayo player matches but how clsoe they are. and if she potentially could have shiek syndrome moving forward as people get better with di and sdi.

 

[Ark of Silence101]

in canon that makes perfect sense lol. but honestly bayo is the one high tier whose MU chart feels like its getting much worse. luigi, bowser, shiek, link, tink, ness, lucas, and mario feel like they are characters that long term will gain favorable mus against her. luigi may already have one. i'm basing that onhow easily elegant has plowed through bayo players recently and luigi can edgegaurd and gimp her at any percent.
the combo characters in my list nullify batwithin to be a huge liability (especially shiek, luigi, and mario) becaus ethier superior movement speed and frame data allows for combo extensions.
also any one else suprised at pink's performance at gnenesis saga? losing at top 48?
im going to keep a close eye on not just the outcome of bayo player matches but how clsoe they are. and if she potentially could have shiek syndrome moving forward as people get better with di and sdi.

Fresh isn't Salem though.

 

[The-Technique]

Hello people.
A few months ago I started following the Twitter page Lucina Memo, which is a bot that automatically posts pictures and videos of anything technical Lucina related in Smash 4, and it is quite frequently updated. Recently, the person that runs the bot, クロマキチャンネル (Kuromaki's Channel) uploaded this video, showing some obscure differences between Lucina and Marth:

A lot of this stuff is no news if you've been following this person's Twitter page, but some of it is. In sum, some of the most surprising things:

• For no discerinble reason at all, Marth rolls almost a whole step longer than Lucina. I haven't a clue why that is the case, but it is;
• Something funky's going on with their Shield Breaker range;
  
• Lucina's shorter height (0.92 units versus Marth's 0.96, source is one of my modder friends) actually allows her to hit crouching opponents and dodge projectiles slightly better, displayed in the video with Bayonetta's crouch and Robin's Thoron respectively, although it may work with others. Her shorter height, however, does make her snap to ledges very slightly less precisely;
• Lucina keeps slide momentum with Jab 1, Spotdodge, Up Tilt (not shown), Down Smash (not shown) and Shield Breaker (not shown), Marth only keeps his momentum with Shield Breaker. The rest sticks him to the ground. This means that Lucina can Perfect Pivot into those moves and slide quite a fair while using them (very useful in PP UTilt's case) while Marth will stick to the floor. As shown in the video, for the standing Up Tilt, Marth takes a step forward before the move while Lucina doesn't, but I guess the only practical difference this makes is that this really doesn't help him during the Perfect Pivot;

These are all small differences and I doubt any of them matter much, but still, it's good information to know.

Another thing to note is that Lucina can slide past opponents after a dash side step, can be a good mixup on the ground

 

[blackghost]

Fresh isn't Salem though.

never said he was but most people say hes better than jk (idk) but if his placement is heavily tied to pinks muhe got in bracket (luigi and shiek) then bayo can't be universally seen as a top 3 character if shes bracket dependent.

 

[SaltyKracka]

also any one else suprised at pink's performance at gnenesis saga? losing at top 48?

When you let a Shiek have Smashville 5 games in a row, I can't believe you're actually trying to win.

never said he was but most people say hes better than jk (idk) but if his placement is heavily tied to pinks muhe got in bracket (luigi and shiek) then bayo can't be universally seen as a top 3 character if shes bracket dependent.

Having played JK...I don't necessarily know that I'd say he's worse than PF.

Srsly tho, Smashville. Versus Shiek. 5 games in a row.

 

[FeelMeUp]

SV in Sheik Bayo isn't that terrible. Sheik can't longrange camp you for an eternity and you don't have to deal with T&C Uair stupidity. Dreamland is like a mini FD in that most Sheiks tend to perform exceptionally well there, and Sheik:Bayo on FD is a horrible MU. I can see how they ended up there, but....not even trying to go ANYWHERE else after it clearly doesn't work for you is super questionable. At least try BF/Lylat....

 

[blackghost]

the bayo should want lylat or dh. but persinally i dont want to let shiek get her ebst stage i always ban that in tournament now.
bayo shiek is that bad because shiek gets her 50-50 back and shiek can bully bayo with sheer frame data. so her grab game is better, her neutral is miles better, she can edge gaurd bayo, and shiek ( imo) is a very hard character to wich time unless they do raw bouncing fish.