Official 4BR Tier List v1.0 - Competitive Impressions

[~ Gheb ~]

Japanese majors are true majors.

I also think that determining a list of top 10 players is a futile effort.

 

[LancerStaff]

Got me on that one. I swore you could glide out of Wings of Icarus, though... Been a long time since I played Brawl...

You can, though I don't remember the specifics. I'm sure you could wing refresh, fly out and cancel WoI, then jump and glide. (And then WoI again because wing refresh was borked lol.) Can't quite remember if the wing refresh was necessary to glide from it.

 

[my_T]

People please......WHEN YOU COMPARE ONE PLAYER TO ANOTHER, YOU NEED TO TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION WHAT CHARACTER(S) THE PLAYER USES

Players like FOW, Ally, and Ranai among others have always performed very well. How can you guys not take match-ups into consideration? I see people saying stuff like "X has never taken a set off Y so i don't think they're top 10"

WHAT DO YOU EXPECT?!

Some of the top players have been running around with Sheik, Diddy, ZSS, Rosa, Cloud, MK (pre-patch), Sonic and all of their jank since the games release.

The fact that FOW, Ally, and Ranai perform so well using the characters they use is a clear testament of their skill. All three of them are top 10 in my book

 

[Trunks159]

Kind of funny because this tourney could've been a whole other level of crazy if Venom beat ZeRo and Nairo lost to Alph (a set where Nairo practically lost already).

Who else knew full well going in that Leo was going to beat Nairo? Practically Hyuga all over again.

 

[Djent]

Kamemushi won the last 3 singles tournaments he's attended, and has made like 8-9 consecutive top 8s. FWIW he's the strongest threat in Japan right now period. Competition for spots in "top X" lists is incredibly fierce, but he's certainly a candidate given any 2-digit value of X.

EDIT: To answer Gheb, he won a 128-man single elimination tournament the same weekend as KSB.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

He won the last two, right? KEN won Umebura 22 where Kamemushi placed 4th.

 

[Das Koopa]

Japanese majors are true majors.

The region is inconsistent so it's hard to use it as a metric, hence I want to see how he does in the U.S. and if he can stack up to Abadango's amazing accomplishments. That being said, he probably can since he's a rare example of a consistent player in the region, and has beaten some of its strongest players.

I also think that determining a list of top 10 players is a futile effort.

A top list isn't really isn't really futile unless you give arbitrary numbers. Better to take the players who set themselves on another level rather than come up with the "top" number first, so I guess it'd the 7 I listed in some order > everybody else, similar to Melee having its own "6 Gods" thing.

 

[teddystalin]

Kamemushi won the last 3 singles tournaments he's attended, and has made like 8-9 consecutive top 8s. FWIW he's the strongest threat in Japan right now period. Competition for spots in "top X" lists is incredibly fierce, but he's certainly a candidate given any 2-digit value of X.

Wouldn't it be great if a new underplayed zoner came and took Japan by storm every six months or so? Here's hoping Taiheita picks up the slack and starts winning everything if Kamemushi ever stumbles.

 

[Megamang]

AFAIK, Kamemushi is coming to America to compete this summer, as this was a prize for a tournament he won.

Scatt Kame double megaman team gonna destroy the meta, 2% at a time.

teddystalin its funny you mention that, because one of the few characters that makes Kame switch isn't shiek like Scatt, but actually Lucas. Trying to zone pk fire is rough, zair is really good at slapping you back, and his increased healing actually makes pellet healing significant. I'd rather fight Sonic/Mario/Fox than that damn blond punk.

Not sure on Kame always staying Mega, just from the GF's I have watched he doesn't seem to hate Shiek.

 

[Mario766]

Has Japan changed how they do their tournaments?

Because last time I tuned into one, they were doing Bo1 pools and it wasn't fun to watch at all.

 

[Wintermelon43]

AFAIK, Kamemushi is coming to America to compete this summer, as this was a prize for a tournament he won.

Scatt Kame double megaman team gonna destroy the meta, 2% at a time.

teddystalin its funny you mention that, because one of the few characters that makes Kame switch isn't shiek like Scatt, but actually Lucas. Trying to zone pk fire is rough, zair is really good at slapping you back, and his increased healing actually makes pellet healing significant. I'd rather fight Sonic/Mario/Fox than that damn blond punk.

Not sure on Kame always staying Mega, just from the GF's I have watched he doesn't seem to hate Shiek.

inb4 2GGT:Kamemushi Saga

 

[Mario766]

inb4 2GGT:Kamemushi Saga

2GGT: Nihon-hen when


SoCal make it happen.

 

[juddy96]

AFAIK, Kamemushi is coming to America to compete this summer, as this was a prize for a tournament he won.

Scatt Kame double megaman team gonna destroy the meta, 2% at a time.

teddystalin its funny you mention that, because one of the few characters that makes Kame switch isn't shiek like Scatt, but actually Lucas. Trying to zone pk fire is rough, zair is really good at slapping you back, and his increased healing actually makes pellet healing significant. I'd rather fight Sonic/Mario/Fox than that damn blond punk.

Not sure on Kame always staying Mega, just from the GF's I have watched he doesn't seem to hate Shiek.

Kame has amazing chemistry with Daiki (who might be going to EVO too?) whether it's double megaman, double cloud, double yoshi, double WFT, they have a double everything

 

[aεrgiα]

Trend I think I'm seeing as of this moment? (In order)

Top 10 Characters in terms of most results (With my opinion too of course. Trying to make this as least biased as possible)



Diddy and Sheik I don't think need explanations

Zero Suit is usually just behind those 2 in every major

After those 3 we've mainly seen Fox as of late

Mario could actually be in front of Fox but ANTi can't make up his damn mind on focusing on his godly Mario. Also, we got a TON of high level Foxes along with Larry compared to, like, 3 or 4 notable Marios? (Ally, ANTi. Zenyou, and the MArio who beat ESAM? Meanwhile, we got guys like Ksev, Megafox, Sodrek, Xzax, VoiD who pockets Fox and his amazing at him too, and Larry)

Cloud is 6th because he poops all over Sonic and Rosa and we've seen it consistently in sets like M2K/Tweek vs Dabuz/6WX but we tend to see him get bopped by the guys in front of him or just falling short.

Sonic is 7th because he just generally has solid results overall but doesn't seem to make it past the characters in front of him.

Rosalina is 8th because Dabuz is a thing but.... that's it. Also he got rekt by Larry, M2K, and Tweek. He still hasn't beaten Mr. R as far as I know and only beat Nairo once. There's also Falln but he can never beat Larry sooooooo

Ryu is 9th due to the several Ryus we've been seeing place here and there. Trela's victory at Pink Fresh Saga over various people and characters is also a factor. There's also that tourney this past weekend with DJ Jack getting 2nd (Forgot who he lost to). I can totally see him continuing to rise up because he has a good match up with Sheik, Fox, and Sonic. Plus his meta is underdeveloped and yet it's already really good so far.

Bayonetta is 10th because she still made those results pre-nerf. I still think she's bonkers because Witch Time and if you DI improperly she can still potentially 0-death you. Her nerfs will probably make her drop further though. Plus she never really got 1st at any huge tourney even before nerfs showing that although she was nuts, she wasn't unbeatable. Just overtuned


Opinions?

dabuz beat mr r at shots fired in winners(but lost to him in losers iirc) and im pretty sure hes beaten nairo at least twice but since im going off memory i could be wrong

People please......WHEN YOU COMPARE ONE PLAYER TO ANOTHER, YOU NEED TO TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION WHAT CHARACTER(S) THE PLAYER USES

Players like FOW, Ally, and Ranai among others have always performed very well. How can you guys not take match-ups into consideration? I see people saying stuff like "X has never taken a set off Y so i don't think they're top 10"

WHAT DO YOU EXPECT?!

Some of the top players have been running around with Sheik, Diddy, ZSS, Rosa, Cloud, MK (pre-patch), Sonic and all of their jank since the games release.
The fact that FOW, Ally, and Ranai perform so well using the characters they use is a clear testament of their skill. All three of them are top 10 in my book

well while what you say isnt wrong, let me put it this way, if you have 2 cooks, and one uses the newest technology, a variety of pots, top quality knives and makes a 5* dish for you to eat and the other uses a butter knife and an old frying pan to do everything and manages to make a 3* course with that, is the second cook the better one? and whose dish would you buy(put in your top 10)? as a top player(or top anything) the tools you use matter, and while using worse tools than someone else is certainly very impressive and worthy of respect, it doesnt make your product better(or the placing in a smash related context).


also:
i dont really like the whole honest characters topic because its way too subjective but when people say mario doesnt have anything stupid... all i can say is, how is this not stupid?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wz6gyakkFSg#t=2m50s

 

[Teshie U]

Has Japan changed how they do their tournaments?

Because last time I tuned into one, they were doing Bo1 pools and it wasn't fun to watch at all.

They have a very conservative stagelist so not having CPs in the set doesn't always make a difference. The Bo1 pools are often JUST for seeding and so the lower level players can get a couple of good matches in.

For main bracket its almost always bo3 for every set.

 

[Nu~]

~ Gheb ~
A little while back you said that ROB was a subpar character overall. Could you elaborate a bit on that?

 

[Baby_Sneak]

~ Gheb ~
A little while back you said that ROB was a subpar character overall. Could you elaborate a bit on that?

His disadvantage state is absolutely depressing :/

His other areas range from decent to really good.

 

[Kofu]

~ Gheb ~
A little while back you said that ROB was a subpar character overall. Could you elaborate a bit on that?

I can input a little. His damage per hit is laughably low without a Gyro and his combos aren't especially high damage as a result. His combo throw is very susceptible to DI and rage and his kill throw is weaker than it was at release (although still decent). Mobility is average and he's highly weak to juggles thanks to his large (oddly-shaped) hurtbox and no good aerials to cover his descent. Not a huge issue but his reflector is garbage and you basically have to anticipate a projectile to reflect it (though it's fun to surprise people on occasion and it does have an active hitbox afterward).

IMO he works as a spacing character who either has speed or disjoint on his moves, never both. His projectiles help with this but can't be spammed thanks to limitations. I think he's good but don't think he really destroys any character. Understanding his game plan and how to work around Gyro (and use it against him) makes his life hard.

 

[Trifroze]

As great as Diddy's consistency is, it's also somewhat of a downfall for him, and it should probably prompt people to reconsider his position as a clear top tier. He probably is one regardless, but...

Top tiers are supposed to be more than just consistent characters. Sure, Diddy has ridiculous things like dtilt which confirms into something at basically any percent including kills with smashes and aerials, fair walls out everything with a godlike autocancel and is pretty good for trades, monkey flip is a get out of disadvantage for almost free -card and an offensive mixup in neutral that's very difficult to react to, and he gets around 15% per grab without pummels all the way to triple digits and above. His uthrow uair 50:50 is also almost as good as what Sheik used to have, at least on fastfallers.

Yet, Diddy will never kill you below 100% unless you get daired offstage or fsmashed at the ledge (both of which you shouldn't), his aerial mobility and recovery are terrible for edgeguarding, and he doesn't have any particularly highly damaging combos.

Sheik has a better neutral, more damaging combos, and while she kills considerably later than Diddy the conventional way, she can get early kills (or a ton of damage) consistently with edgeguards in several matchups, while also having at least a decent chance for those in the rest. Especially in a long bracket this translates to much less fatigue.

There's Mario who gets much more damage off of grabs along with fair mixups offstage while being able to go much deeper for edgeguards than Diddy, and Fox who gets 50%+ off of a single move in around 2 seconds and has relatively good kill setups considerably earlier than Diddy.

Mewtwo has 30-40% combos and he kills with whatever the hell he wants, while ZSS is anything but consistent but has 30-40% combos and kills with whatever the hell she wants whenever the hell she wants, Rosalina with dair, uair, good smashes and Luma jank, Ryu with SRK confirms and setups that completely **** you over if you happen to get caught by them, and Cloud with limit and a very strong juggle game.

Sonic is arguably the only other character at the top vicinity who doesn't really have any real explosiveness, and to be honest he has felt underwhelming to me as well (even though he's pretty clearly a very good character).

Diddy doesn't actually feel underwhelming, I'm actually super annoyed by him and his whole gameplan, and maybe this is all just me being hopeful that the character that gives me the most problems won't become a popular choice. That, or I might be onto something that may or may not turn out to be a considerable weakness for the character.

 

[Megamang]

Man, as someone mentioned on the GOML stream, his banana game wouldn't be so bad if he didn't have a huge mobile command grab that can smack you with a solid, strong hitbox if you are predicting the grab too frequently. Most characters can't grab with a banana in hand, he gets a command grab + grab confirms for considerable damage and crazy strong normals.

I still think the edge game can be improved vs him. You can all but know the monkey flip is gonna come out since his aerial mobility is actually really bad without it. His consistency is at least hurt a little by the fact he can lose a game at any moment. But his huge normals make fighting him in the air a lot harder than it seems at first.

I also think smaller stages are a solid choice vs him, but at the same time it can backfire. On one hand, you don't want him to have unlimited stage because retreating with banana in hand is really really hard for anyone to deal with... but if you feel cramped, you don't have an out vs banana and that can be just as bad.


Its nice that as Mega you are firing pellets a lot, and this constant pressing of A can snag you a banana quite accidentally.


How does Olimar do vs Diddy? I would imagine monkey flip mixups are really really hard for him to deal with, since SH usually beats grabs and attacks. But pikmin can bring you the banana while you are zoning, which is equally awesome and adorable.

 

[Shady Shaymin]

As great as Diddy's consistency is, it's also somewhat of a downfall for him, and it should probably prompt people to reconsider his position as a clear top tier. He probably is one regardless, but...

Top tiers are supposed to be more than just consistent characters. Sure, Diddy has ridiculous things like dtilt which confirms into something at basically any percent including kills with smashes and aerials, fair walls out everything with a godlike autocancel and is pretty good for trades, monkey flip is a get out of disadvantage for almost free -card and an offensive mixup in neutral that's very difficult to react to, and he gets around 15% per grab without pummels all the way to triple digits and above. His uthrow uair 50:50 is also almost as good as what Sheik used to have, at least on fastfallers.

Yet, Diddy will never kill you below 100% unless you get daired offstage or fsmashed at the ledge (both of which you shouldn't), his aerial mobility and recovery are terrible for edgeguarding, and he doesn't have any particularly highly damaging combos.

Sheik has a better neutral, more damaging combos, and while she kills considerably later than Diddy the conventional way, she can get early kills (or a ton of damage) consistently with edgeguards in several matchups, while also having at least a decent chance for those in the rest. Especially in a long bracket this translates to much less fatigue.

There's Mario who gets much more damage off of grabs along with fair mixups offstage while being able to go much deeper for edgeguards than Diddy, and Fox who gets 50%+ off of a single move in around 2 seconds and has relatively good kill setups considerably earlier than Diddy.

Mewtwo has 30-40% combos and he kills with whatever the hell he wants, while ZSS is anything but consistent but has 30-40% combos and kills with whatever the hell she wants whenever the hell she wants, Rosalina with dair, uair, good smashes and Luma jank, Ryu with SRK confirms and setups that completely **** you over if you happen to get caught by them, and Cloud with limit and a very strong juggle game.

Sonic is arguably the only other character at the top vicinity who doesn't really have any real explosiveness, and to be honest he has felt underwhelming to me as well (even though he's pretty clearly a very good character).

Diddy doesn't actually feel underwhelming, I'm actually super annoyed by him and his whole gameplan, and maybe this is all just me being hopeful that the character that gives me the most problems won't become a popular choice. That, or I might be onto something that may or may not turn out to be a considerable weakness for the character.

This x100. Diddy has some solid tools in the neutral and is arguably the most consistent top tier, but I don't know if consistency is going to be so useful in a meta where every effing top tier seems to have some godly trump card that can instantly reverse the momentum of a match.

Diddy certainly has comeback potential, no doubt about it. A diddy with rage gets a lot off of grab conversions and his damage output from winning the neutral is good for getting momentum back. I just think he has to work way harder to get there than cloud, ryu or even mario, for the reasons Trifroze mentioned.

I'm not saying Diddy is the pikachu of our new meta (his representation, results and theory all indicate otherwise), but we may be overrating him on a similar basis that we overrated pikachu.

 

[SaltyKracka]

"I dunno guys, we might be overrating Diddy on account of his being too consistently overpowered"

u w0t, m8?

 

[FullMoon]

I have to say, if Mario turned out to be the best character in the game it would be nothing short of appropriate.

 

[Baby_Sneak]

"I dunno guys, we might be overrating Diddy on account of his being too consistently overpowered"

u w0t, m8?

Smash 4 characters

Over powered

Pick one.

 

[R3D3MON]

The fact that he compared Pikachu to Diddy is hilarious.

 

[SaltyKracka]

Smash 4 characters

Over powered

Pick one.

Ladder combos. Hoo Hah. Dthrow->Cyclone. Forward Air, Dthrow 50/50, Bair.

Need I prove you wrong some more?

 

[Megamang]

While 'pick 2' is kinda something where it always works, 'pick 1' is just listing two things that are exclusive.


anyways, he wasn't saying Diddy is consistently overpowered... at all... he is saying he doesn't have the super strong trump card of other top tiers, instead he has consistency. So, uhh... pick one of those I guess.


Dtilt is his thing tho


Also... woah, guys. cmon. This isn't 4chan , stop throwing 1 liners at eachother trying to get a 'gotcha' moment when you aren't even reading the point of the posts.

 

[Baby_Sneak]

Ladder combos. Hoo Hah. Dthrow->Cyclone. Forward Air, Dthrow 50/50, Bair.

Need I prove you wrong some more?

All patched out aka irrelevant.

EDIT: but Megamang 's right though so Ima just slide on by and do something else. My Bad

 

[aεrgiα]

well i dont know about you guys, but id take consistent results at the cost of a "busted trump card" anyday... and its banana thats diddys thing, and its pretty damn good TT_TT

 

[SaltyKracka]

All patched out aka irrelevant.

Oh you poor stupid summer child.

Why do you think they were patched out in the first place?

 

[Baby_Sneak]

Oh you poor stupid summer child.

Why do you think they were patched out in the first place?

Are you talking about every pre-nerf version of each top tier or just current 1.1.6 characters? If the former then there's no need to go any further than this crap that's been said.

 

[Pancracio17]

I... I dont get you salykracka, why tf would you bring that up?

 

[Mario766]

Diddy isn't just consistent.

He's to the point where it's almost oppressive to fight him, esp when banana is held. His neutral options become insanely scary, banana forces a defensive option and it's usually shield, which Diddy can beat with a long range command grab that he can mix-up into a huge disjointed hitbox that is strong, can edge cancel, and is fast.

Without banana, he still has d-tilt, yet again a frame 4 move that leads into pretty much his entire kit, combos until like 200 percent, kill confirms, and has a bigger hitbox than a lot of characters can deal with. It also has 14 frames of endlag, which is less pretty much the entire roster has for moves in general. Add onto this, he has 2 amazing aerials that he can use OoS and on reaction in general, that being F-Air and B-Air. Both are excellent, being frame 9 and 10 after his frame 4 jumpsquat. F-Air walls alone can invalidate characters to a very harsh degree, even without banana being in play.

Where Diddy is most consistent is his damage racking, and unlike Mario...

He has KILL CONFIRMS.

D-Tilt Up Smash. D-Tilt F-Smash. D-Tilt F-Air. D-Tilt air dodge read into X.
Banana toss into everything.
Up throw up-air on fast fallers
Banana glide toss d-tilt up-smash.
Banana glide toss d-tilt kill conversions in general.

If you didn't die to that? He has a frame frame 6-11 up-tilt that'll kill you off a whiff punish, or just a slight read in your movement/defense habits.

Diddy doesn't have that one move that people complain about, like pre-patch Sheik F-Air. He has an amazing kit with some of the most consistent kill conversions without lacking really anything at all. His recovery is exploitable...

Like 95 percent of the cast. I'll trade ALL THESE BONUSES for a weakness that is shared with almost THE ENTIRE CAST in general.

 

[ZSaberLink]

Face reality dude, jab 1 confirms will never come back. He'd be one of the more overpowering characters in the series from that one thing alone. Secondly, a lower FAF on Jab 2 might be decent, but he has a great confirm off jab 2 already: Spin Attack. And about N-Air, I need to explain something to you.

Spin Attack doesn't confirm off of Jab 2. Jab 2 only is a mixup. Stop spreading incorrect information. Floaties can jump out fairly easily, and fast fallers can shield. Characters with frame 3-4 Nairs can also generally just attack you instead. Nair's power is fine, but the fact that it comes out at frame 7 means we have nothing to break juggle situations except if you already have a bomb in hand.

Off the top of my head, tourney placing Links are Zane the Pure in Texas, Scizor in SoCal, Lord Xavior in RI, Unknown in (was Paradigm Shift in FL?), Cat in Netherlands, there's also Huggles who's PRed, kxiong, ...sorry I'm not home atm and got to go. See this.
http://smashboards.com/threads/link-tournament-results-thread-25th-october.404196/page-6

Doesn't Hyrule Hero still play in Texas?

Huggles is top 10 PR in SC. KXiong I believe is Minnesota.

 

[Shady Shaymin]

Diddy isn't just consistent.

He's to the point where it's almost oppressive to fight him, esp when banana is held. His neutral options become insanely scary, banana forces a defensive option and it's usually shield, which Diddy can beat with a long range command grab that he can mix-up into a huge disjointed hitbox that is strong, can edge cancel, and is fast.

Without banana, he still has d-tilt, yet again a frame 4 move that leads into pretty much his entire kit, combos until like 200 percent, kill confirms, and has a bigger hitbox than a lot of characters can deal with. It also has 14 frames of endlag, which is less pretty much the entire roster has for moves in general. Add onto this, he has 2 amazing aerials that he can use OoS and on reaction in general, that being F-Air and B-Air. Both are excellent, being frame 9 and 10 after his frame 4 jumpsquat. F-Air walls alone can invalidate characters to a very harsh degree, even without banana being in play.

Where Diddy is most consistent is his damage racking, and unlike Mario...

He has KILL CONFIRMS.

D-Tilt Up Smash. D-Tilt F-Smash. D-Tilt F-Air. D-Tilt air dodge read into X.
Banana toss into everything.
Up throw up-air on fast fallers
Banana glide toss d-tilt up-smash.
Banana glide toss d-tilt kill conversions in general.

If you didn't die to that? He has a frame frame 6-11 up-tilt that'll kill you off a whiff punish, or just a slight read in your movement/defense habits.

Diddy doesn't have that one move that people complain about, like pre-patch Sheik F-Air. He has an amazing kit with some of the most consistent kill conversions without lacking really anything at all. His recovery is exploitable...

Like 95 percent of the cast. I'll trade ALL THESE BONUSES for a weakness that is shared with almost THE ENTIRE CAST in general.

Shield isn't the only option against diddy holding a peel. Retreating aerials, approaching with a good dash attack, and SHAD all competently snag the banana, and top level diddys have to be on point with mindgames and mixups to land it against a smart opponent.

Dtilt is strong for all the reasons you mentioned, but being a tilt means it has its limitations. It has to be used as a reactionary punish rather than something to pressure with in the neutral. Look at fox's dash attack. You're constantly scared of that move because it can be used in the neutral out of his solid dash, and 50/50s into his up air, which kills way earlier than diddy's smashes. Diddy's best chance of using dtilt is out of walk, spotdodge, or roll, all of which can be anticipated.

His recovery is far easier to exploit than you make it out to be. Monkey flip is so easy to anticipate, and people really ought to challenge it like they challenge fox illusion. Rocket barrels are cardboard. I would say his recovery is somewhat better than fox's, but also worse than mario's.

 

[Trifroze]

Diddy's strengths are well known but also often exaggerated because it's the current flavor, the whole point was that after acknowledging these strengths Diddy still needs to win neutral from scratch so many times each stock that it's not really particularly scary unless you're at very high percents. I'm just as scared of Ryu in neutral and his is bad in comparison, but he literally only needs to win it 3 times and then once more for the kill. ~Triple that for Diddy.

 

[C0rvus]

Yeah, Diddy's never killing below 100% unless he gets a spike. He trades burst strength for consistency. He really doesn't have super comeback powers like many other characters.

 

[KeeganKTK]

Official 4BR Smash for Wii U Tier List v1.0 (1.1.3 patch)

Top
S:

High
A:
B:

Middle
C:
D:
E:

Low
F:
G:

Bottom
H:
I:
J:

Graphic version:

Spoiler: Raw voting data

Character | Average Placement | Standard Deviation | Gap
Sheik | 20.0 | 0.0 | 0.0
Zero Suit Samus | 19.46 | 0.708 | 0.538
Rosalina | 18.77 | 0.87 | 0.687
Ryu | 17.95 | 1.103 | 0.82
Pikachu | 17.86 | 1.065 | 0.099
Sonic | 17.83 | 1.269 | 0.021
Fox | 17.52 | 1.146 | 0.313
Mario | 17.51 | 1.108 | 0.014
Diddy Kong | 17.43 | 0.998 | 0.082
Meta Knight | 17.12 | 1.489 | 0.307
Villager | 16.52 | 1.614 | 0.597
Cloud | 16.5 | 1.657 | 0.023
Ness | 16.39 | 1.502 | 0.11
Captain Falcon | 15.16 | 1.767 | 1.228
Yoshi | 15.15 | 1.893 | 0.013
Luigi | 14.27 | 1.996 | 0.881
Dark Pit | 13.89 | 2.138 | 0.381
Pit | 13.88 | 2.308 | 0.006
Peach | 13.75 | 2.115 | 0.133
R.O.B. | 13.63 | 2.221 | 0.12
Wario | 13.56 | 1.898 | 0.067
Toon Link | 13.2 | 2.416 | 0.357
Lucario | 12.92 | 2.224 | 0.285
Olimar | 12.47 | 2.452 | 0.454
Greninja | 12.25 | 2.633 | 0.215
Ike | 12.12 | 2.425 | 0.126
Donkey Kong | 11.8 | 2.252 | 0.325
Mega Man | 11.41 | 2.159 | 0.386
Pac-Man | 11.29 | 2.278 | 0.124
Bowser | 10.81 | 2.66 | 0.477
Robin | 10.17 | 2.722 | 0.642
Roy | 9.29 | 3.209 | 0.883
Kirby | 9.1 | 3.388 | 0.183
Bowser Jr. | 8.93 | 2.671 | 0.176
Mr. Game & Watch | 8.72 | 2.47 | 0.21
Lucas | 8.65 | 2.993 | 0.071
Mewtwo | 8.35 | 2.666 | 0.297
Falco | 8.12 | 3.026 | 0.232
Wii Fit Trainer | 8.08 | 2.674 | 0.037
Shulk | 7.75 | 2.926 | 0.325
Marth | 7.72 | 2.237 | 0.038
Link | 7.47 | 2.474 | 0.249
Duck Hunt Dog | 7.18 | 3.11 | 0.283
Little Mac | 7.18 | 2.633 | 0.009
Dr. Mario | 7.14 | 2.437 | 0.033
King Dedede | 6.04 | 2.721 | 1.107
Lucina | 5.59 | 2.547 | 0.447
Mii Brawler | 5.01 | 2.952 | 0.584
Charizard | 4.79 | 2.255 | 0.218
Palutena | 4.78 | 2.199 | 0.008
Samus | 4.12 | 1.942 | 0.656
Mii Gunner | 3.6 | 2.153 | 0.525
Mii Swordsman | 3.32 | 2.054 | 0.282
Ganondorf | 3.23 | 1.675 | 0.082
Jigglypuff | 2.79 | 2.035 | 0.448
Zelda | 1.96 | 1.259 | 0.828

Spoiler: Text version

S: Sheik, Zero Suit Samus, Rosalina & Luma
A: Ryu, Pikachu, Sonic, Fox, Mario, Diddy Kong, Meta Knight
B: Villager, Cloud, Ness
C: Captain Falcon, Yoshi
D: Luigi, Dark Pit, Pit, Peach, R.O.B., Wario, Toon Link, Lucario
E: Captain Olimar, Greninja, Ike, Donkey Kong, Mega Man, Pac-Man, Bowser, Robin
F: Roy, Kirby, Bowser Jr., Mr. Game & Watch, Lucas, Mewtwo, Falco, Wii Fit Trainer
G: Shulk, Marth, Link, Duck Hunt, Little Mac, Dr. Mario
H: King Dedede, Lucina
I: Mii Brawler, Charizard, Palutena
J: Samus, Mii Gunner, Mii Swordsman, Ganondorf, Jigglypuff, Zelda

For the longest time we've been tied to "character competitive impressions" to supplement our lack of an official tier list during the early stages of Smash 4. Constant balance patches and character releases have kept us from taking those steps for a long time now but with the advent of the 4BR (WiiU Back Room) we've together tackled the long awaited elephant in the community. However, the community that has been built up around this lapse of structure has been exceptional and we've become of the most active and critical threads on Smashboards - it needn't be forgotten and you're all apart of what makes it great!

You can read the full article here.
A more fleshed out blurb and credits can be found there and that should be the primary external reference point.
To note, the tier list assumes no custom movesets and Mii Fighters restricted to Guest Mii sizes and a 1111 move set.
I'll summarize the procedural format as "with up to 20 divisions, and characters in the same division being equal, segregate the cast as such as 20 is best and 1 is worst". We will likely be keeping up with this format and although not explicitly stated thus far, this is so we can transition into v2 (or 1.1.4 patch or later) version easier. There is a good chance we will be expanding the user base for participation in the future and that isn't restricted to just those in the 4BR, keep this in mind .

To differentiate from the article discussion, we will be expecting discussion here on this list to be above nonsensical rants or complaints, petty jabs and otherwise. THE ARTICLE IS THERE FOR YOU OTHERWISE.
Feel free to ask as many questions as you'd like here (probably should tag me at least, I'll hopefully get more members on board in being active in the discussion too!)

Yay most of my mains are bottom teir! :3

Serriously though, do tiers really matter all that much? From what I've heard, they're all based on how well the characters do in tournament matches, and I've seen lower tiers give quite a beating to higher ones. So what's even the purpose of them? Why are there tier lists, and why do people take them so serriously (not putting labels on anyone here)?

I love competitive Smash, and from the amount of times I destroy people with bottom tier Ganondorf or low tier Kirby/Bowser (pr when I get horribly rekt by Lucina when I used Cloud), it just comes to show that the knowledge and skill of the players is what really puts an advantage at play. So are tier lists just there for show? Are they there for bias? Are they there to help players decide who's "easier" to use and who might be a little more difficult?

I'd just like to know the purpose of making lists just as these. No offense intended, just a question.

 

[ZSaberLink]

Yay most of my mains are bottom teir! :3

Serriously though, do tiers really matter all that much? From what I've heard, they're all based on how well the characters do in tournament matches, and I've seen lower tiers give quite a beating to higher ones. So what's even the purpose of them? Why are there tier lists, and why do people take them so serriously (not putting labels on anyone here)?

I love competitive Smash, and from the amount of times I destroy people with bottom tier Ganondorf or low tier Kirby/Bowser (pr when I get horribly rekt by Lucina when I used Cloud), it just comes to show that the knowledge and skill of the players is what really puts an advantage at play. So are tier lists just there for show? Are they there for bias? Are they there to help players decide who's "easier" to use and who might be a little more difficult?

I'd just like to know the purpose of making lists just as these. No offense intended, just a question.

The idea of a tier list is that given two characters of equal skill, the higher your character is in a tier list, the more likely you'll get results. However, obviously each player has their strengths and weaknesses, certain character matchups can be bad, and Smash 4 is one of the most balanced when it comes to top tiers vs. lower tiers. Like Das Koopa and I had posted a couple of weeks back, 44 out of the 57 characters placed top 16 in a tourney of 100 people or more. This is including common picks like Toon Link, Ike, and Lucario being absent that particular weekend.

The idea of top tiers typically is that they have more advantageous matchups over disadvantageous matchups and sometimes have very dominating matchups against a lot of characters.

 

[ARGHETH]

Yay most of my mains are bottom teir! :3

Serriously though, do tiers really matter all that much? From what I've heard, they're all based on how well the characters do in tournament matches, and I've seen lower tiers give quite a beating to higher ones. So what's even the purpose of them? Why are there tier lists, and why do people take them so serriously (not putting labels on anyone here)?

I love competitive Smash, and from the amount of times I destroy people with bottom tier Ganondorf or low tier Kirby/Bowser (pr when I get horribly rekt by Lucina when I used Cloud), it just comes to show that the knowledge and skill of the players is what really puts an advantage at play. So are tier lists just there for show? Are they there for bias? Are they there to help players decide who's "easier" to use and who might be a little more difficult?

I'd just like to know the purpose of making lists just as these. No offense intended, just a question.

Red Topics are explicitly banned. Any post that focuses on them is grounds for a spam infraction.

• Tier List Meta Discussion
  • "What is the point of tier lists?"

Does anybody read the rules? >.>

To answer your question, they show how good a character is st high-level play and how likely they are to place well at tournaments. The player playing the character is important, obviously, but certain characters have tools to make things easier for the player to win.