4BR Smash for Wii U Tier List v2.0

Many fighting game communities will often make a tier list for their game, often as a reference for discussion of tournament viability. Smash is certainly no exception, with tier lists for all Smash games, and with Back Rooms often being the main body that organizes and crafts them with the help of correspondents and members.

The first Super Smash Bros. for 3DS and Wii U tier list was released in Spring 2016, for Patch 1.1.3. It's been nearly half a year, and the meta has seen shocking shifts in its rulesets, character viability and more thanks to 3 new patches and 2 new characters.

As a disclaimer, the 4BR acknowledges that tier lists aren't always accurate and are often controversial. However, we do want to study the game and give a take on the current meta, adding yet another important snapshot to the history of the game.

The community has been vigilant for this game since the very beginning, with 2016 being a fantastic year thus far for Smash. From competitors and dataminers to content creators and tournament organizers, it's been quite the ride. And with the future for Smash 4 getting bigger and brighter, it's only natural to say that the meta will constantly evolve as time goes on. With that out of the way, we'd like to introduce you to the second official tier list for Super Smash Bros. for Wii U.

Procedure

Starting in early June 2016 (after Smash 'N' Splash 2), we asked 4BR members to distribute all the characters in the game (with the exception of Mii Fighters due to a lack of consistency regarding their legality) across tiers; players could have as many tiers as they want, and even order characters within their tiers. Players had to assume that this was under Version 1.1.6 of the game and that customs were off. In addition, players were allowed to place Miis (either under their 1111 loadout, or an XXXX loadout) if they so desired for an addendum. At this time, the 4BR does not have an official stance or recommendation on ruleset matters, including Mii Fighters. As with the previous vote, we also reached out to correspondents from outside the 4BR to help with this project and added a handful of applicants to the 4BR to help partake in this project.

For example, here is my vote, which was ordered within tiers:

Spoiler: Example Vote

We decided to run voting until August 8th, the week of Super Smash Con, to allow for more thoughts about July's tournaments to run in, especially EVO 2016. Eventually, we ended up with a total of 56 votes, with 31 US voters and 25 international voters.

The following people submitted a vote:

Spoiler: List of Voters

@---
@-6WX-
@~Pink Fresh~
@AeroLink_the_SoulMaster
@Alphicans
@Ambrose
@Camalange
@Catana
@CHOMPY
@CYVE
@Dabuz
@earth_tyt
@EcneBanjo
@Espy Rose
@Fox Is Openly Deceptive
@FullMoon
@Ghostbone
@istudying
@JJROCKETS
@John12346
@kameme8808 (Kamemushi)
@KENisbg (KEN)
Gunla
@Luco
@M@v
@Marc
@Marcbri
@Meru.
@Mr E
@Mr-R
@Myran
@NickRiddle
@Player-1
@Pugwest
@qb9b (9B)
@Ray_Kalm
@Raziek
@Red Ryu
@Remzi
@RichBrown
@rintarosu10 (RIN)
@san.
@Slice~ (Beefy Smash Doods)
@Seagull Joe
@Shaya
@SS_and_TH (Komorikiri)
@SSB_Ned (Ned)
@SShane (SS)
@Thinkaman
@Trela
@Tweek
@UltimateRazer (GrimTurtle)
@vyQ (Beefy Smash Doods)
@Xiivi
@Zan-
@Zigsta

As with the previous tier list, we will not be publicly releasing individual votes; however, all voters are free to share their votes with the public.

Results

Thanks to @Locuan (vote formatting) and @Shaya (processing), we were able to generate the average placements and groupings (tiers) of the cast. Furthermore, we have included standard deviations for both of these results and the weighted group score, which considered characters per group and the placement differences between v2.0 and v1.0 (with Marth and Mewtwo having the biggest jumps, both in the positive direction).

Spoiler: Voting Data

Character | Ordered Average | Standard Deviation (Order) | Grouped Average | Standard Deviation (Group) | Weighted Group | Difference from v1.0
Diddy Kong | 1.32 | 1.501 | 9.88 | 0.391 | 9.95 | +8
Cloud | 2.18 | 2.18 | 9.84 | 0.418 | 9.91 | +10
Sheik | 2.66 | 2.734 | 9.65 | 0.7 | 9.82 | -2
Rosalina | 3.39 | 2.085 | 9.66 | 0.634 | 9.85 | -1
Mario | 4.88 | 2.443 | 9.33 | 0.786 | 9.62 | +3
Sonic | 5.39 | 2.756 | 9.29 | 0.733 | 9.61 | ±0
Fox | 5.88 | 2.376 | 9.15 | 0.776 | 9.56 | ±0
Zero Suit Samus | 7.09 | 2.182 | 8.83 | 0.782 | 9.28 | -6
Ryu | 8.41 | 4.165 | 8.68 | 0.874 | 9.14 | -5
Mewtwo | 8.46 | 3.07 | 8.72 | 0.73 | 9.21 | +27
Bayonetta | 8.93 | 3.914 | 8.74 | 0.885 | 9.14 | New
Pikachu | 13.88 | 3.274 | 7.67 | 0.9 | 8.26 | -7
Meta Knight | 14.54 | 5.931 | 7.62 | 1.092 | 8.17 | -4
Villager | 15.07 | 4.358 | 7.51 | 0.806 | 8.08 | -3
Mega Man | 15.93 | 5.837 | 7.4 | 0.937 | 7.95 | +13
Ness | 16.39 | 4.916 | 7.41 | 1.068 | 8 | -3
Toon Link | 16.64 | 3.739 | 7.23 | 0.836 | 7.82 | +5
Corrin | 17.85 | 6.337 | 7.15 | 1.107 | 7.66 | New
Marth | 19.36 | 6.852 | 7.01 | 1.063 | 7.47 | +23
Captain Falcon | 20.95 | 4.615 | 6.72 | 0.922 | 7.26 | -6
Greninja | 21.11 | 5.731 | 6.8 | 1.052 | 7.32 | +4
Lucario | 21.52 | 5.405 | 6.63 | 0.968 | 7.14 | +1
Yoshi | 23.64 | 5.201 | 6.42 | 0.984 | 6.9 | -8
Pit | 23.73 | 6.264 | 6.39 | 1.115 | 6.83 | -6
Donkey Kong | 24.41 | 4.854 | 6.27 | 0.98 | 6.68 | +2
Peach | 24.52 | 5.898 | 6.2 | 1.079 | 6.64 | -7
Dark Pit | 24.89 | 5.888 | 6.27 | 1.044 | 6.68 | -10
R.O.B. | 25.64 | 5.393 | 6.08 | 1.17 | 6.51 | -8
Luigi | 27.34 | 6.583 | 5.95 | 1.126 | 6.26 | -13
Olimar | 30.93 | 7.914 | 5.62 | 1.338 | 5.94 | -6
Robin | 30.98 | 6.396 | 5.42 | 0.931 | 5.61 | ±0
Bowser | 31.55 | 5.812 | 5.23 | 1.018 | 5.4 | -2
Lucas | 32.18 | 7.071 | 5.17 | 1.149 | 5.34 | +3
Wario | 32.61 | 4.471 | 5.26 | 0.943 | 5.43 | -13
Ike | 32.68 | 5.711 | 5.06 | 1.03 | 5.08 | -7
Lucina | 34.52 | 7.746 | 4.95 | 1.178 | 5.08 | +13
Mr. Game & Watch | 37.8 | 6.637 | 4.38 | 1.337 | 4.33 | +1
Pac-Man | 38.73 | 6.016 | 4.34 | 1.097 | 4.18 | -6
Little Mac | 38.8 | 6.891 | 4.21 | 1.149 | 4.01 | +7
Palutena | 38.91 | 5.881 | 4.11 | 1.156 | 3.94 | +12
Kirby | 39.27 | 6.413 | 4.23 | 1.166 | 4.06 | -5
Duck Hunt | 40 | 7.697 | 4.21 | 1.303 | 4.05 | +3
Link | 40.64 | 8.186 | 4.09 | 1.338 | 3.94 | +1
Shulk | 41.77 | 6.753 | 3.86 | 1.267 | 3.6 | -2
Samus | 42.66 | 6.459 | 3.71 | 1.186 | 3.49 | +8
Bowser Jr. | 43.18 | 5.907 | 3.61 | 1.138 | 3.33 | -10
Wii Fit Trainer | 43.18 | 5.465 | 3.65 | 1.043 | 3.35 | -5
Dr. Mario | 45.16 | 4.554 | 3.47 | 1.051 | 3.11 | -1
Falco | 45.75 | 4.141 | 3.25 | 1.036 | 2.86 | -9
Roy | 46.02 | 5.323 | 3.38 | 1.191 | 3.08 | -15
Charizard | 48.27 | 3.763 | 2.82 | 1.077 | 2.48 | ±0
King Dedede | 49.02 | 4.06 | 2.7 | 1.146 | 2.32 | -6
Mii Gunner | 51.26 | 6.322 | 2.28 | 1.124 | 1.7 | +2
Mii Brawler | 51.89 | 6.696 | 2.26 | 1.316 | 1.76 | -3
Zelda | 52.07 | 2.235 | 1.92 | 0.616 | 1.49 | +3
Ganondorf | 52.66 | 2.254 | 1.9 | 0.651 | 1.47 | ±0
Mii Swordfighter | 53.85 | 3.951 | 2.04 | 0.947 | 1.53 | -2
Jigglypuff | 53.98 | 1.433 | 1.72 | 0.604 | 1.35 | -1

A standard deviation of (close to) 0 means that voters generally placed the character close to the average (mean), while a higher standard deviation shows that the character had a diverse range of placements. As expected, the further down the tier list one goes from the top, the larger the deviations tends to be. While the top and bottom tiers have lower standard deviation results, the middle and lower tiers were highly opinionated.

For the first time, our procedure for the Tier List asked voters for two things concurrently - tiers or groups of characters (similar to Wii U v1.0) and the orders for characters within them (overall 1-58, similar to many other past BR lists). The resulting lists were not completely congruent, with several small position swaps (orders were still maintained in the release). However, this gave us the means to decide our tier separations, reflecting how closely our voters put characters together in contrast to the volatility of ordered placements.

The Top/High/Mid/Low/Bottom divides were decided by the group score's range (9.88 - 1.72) split equally into five. The tiers primarily express point gaps of 10-9, 9-8, etc., with two exceptions. We merged the bottom tiers (2.82 - 1.72; 1.10 range), and to coincide with the high tier's split (8.25 - 6.62), we bumped up Captain Falcon, Greninja & Lucario, creating two tiers.

As such, we would like to present you with the...

Official 4BR Smash for Wii U Tier List v2.0 (Wii U Version 1.1.6)

--------------------TOP--------------------
S:
A:
-------------------HIGH--------------------
B:
C:
--------------------MID---------------------
D:
E:
--------------------LOW-------------------
F:
G:
------------------BOTTOM----------------
H:

Text Version

--------------------TOP--------------------
S: Diddy Kong, Cloud, Sheik, Rosalina, Mario, Sonic, Fox
A: Zero Suit Samus, Ryu, Mewtwo, Bayonetta
-------------------HIGH--------------------
B: Pikachu, Meta Knight, Villager, Mega Man, Ness
C: Toon Link, Corrin, Marth, Captain Falcon, Greninja, Lucario
--------------------MID---------------------
D: Yoshi, Pit, Donkey Kong, Peach, Dark Pit, R.O.B., Luigi
E: Olimar, Robin, Bowser, Lucas, Wario, Ike, Lucina
--------------------LOW-------------------
F: Mr. Game & Watch, Pac-Man, Little Mac, Palutena, Kirby, Duck Hunt, Link
G: Shulk, Samus, Wii Fit Trainer, Bowser Jr., Dr. Mario, Falco, Roy
------------------BOTTOM----------------
H: Charizard, King Dedede, Zelda, Ganondorf, Jigglypuff

Graphic Version

Smashboards Tier List Maker Version:

Addendum for Mii Fighters:

Of the votes we collected, 27 of them had Mii Fighters. While we were not able to accrue enough data for XXXX Miis, we did find results with 1111 Miis, which placed them into the bottom tier as follows:

H:

Conclusions

With the Summer of Smash coming to a close, there have been many unique advancements in the Smash 4 metagame that will be reflected within this tier list. Ever since the first tier list was released, Bayonetta took the world by storm; two of the top tiers in the last list received big changes, knocking them down a tad; everyone picked up Cloud; and Mega Man became a big threat. Other characters became relevant thanks to buffs, such as Marth and Mewtwo. Even though future patches are unlikely, it's safe to assume that the tier list will evolve quite fruitfully, as seen with previous Smash games.

What do you think of the tier list? Do you agree with the placements, or would you place certain characters differently? Let us know what your thoughts and questions are and we will try to address the most common ones in a followup article, which will include statements from various members of the 4BR.

Special thanks goes to Shaya and Locuan for their help with processing the votes and results; Camalange, Shaya, @Marc, Vayseth and Events2Compete (Joe Fattal) for assisting with the collection of outside votes; and shrooby for creating the tier list image. Lastly, I'd like to give a special thank you to all the voters for their time and input into crafting this tier list. I was proud to take the mantle for the second tier list and receive help from so many people.

 

Mario is just a super solid character with really good results (mainly because of Ally) and he isn't hard countered by any character

Extremely hard countered by Rosalina, Sonic and Mewtwo. Loses to Luigi too.

 

Why is Kirby so high? For someone being above at least 3-5 characters with better results I can't see him in F Tier at all. He's G Tier or possible contender for bottom tier.

 

Extremely hard countered by Rosalina, Sonic and Mewtwo. Loses to Luigi too.

I wouldn't say that those match ups are anywhere near "extremely hard". While they are losing match ups they're still winnable. I also don't believe Mario loses to Luigi I think that that match up is even.

 

I wouldn't say that those match ups are anywhere near "extremely hard". While they are losing match ups they're still winnable. I also don't believe Mario loses to Luigi I think that that match up is even.

Rosalina absolutely destroys mario. Every matchup is winnable but mario shouldnt be above sonic or fox.

 

when can we create a match-up chart

 

when can we create a match-up chart

This. The game has been out for almost 2 years now and we already have our second tier list. I think we have enough data to make our first matchup chart at least decently accurate.

 

Switch and tiers

 

What the hell is this?

Ike is focking Middle tier??

Sure, he is a snail in speed, but he can kill with smashes at 40%, aether-stage-spike at 0%, and even though he doesn't have long comboes, his aerials are strong and reliable, with up throw to up air can kill if your opponent airdodges after every throw.

Ugh, fine. I guess I need to accept my fate, and confess that Ike is still a fundamentals character and doesn't stand out in any way.

Hes just so underrated ;~;

 

Switch and tiers

Nah is definitely mid tier. She should be a bit higher imo, maybe D tier, bottom of C tier at MOST. Her and shouldn't be as far apart as they are to begin with though.

 

If you space properly as Marth then you have better damage output and kill potential than Corrin.

Didn't intend to trigger you, I'm just saying, Marth has a lot of good options and can play better against other characters more consistently than Corrin, in my opinion.

 

This. The game has been out for almost 2 years now and we already have our second tier list. I think we have enough data to make our first matchup chart at least decently accurate.

the problem with making a match up chart right now is that there is some characters that are still vastly unexplored and most people just assume that a match up is good or bad with these characters based on that without actually exploring the match up in detail

 

the problem with making a match up chart right now is that there is some characters that are still vastly unexplored and most people just assume that a match up is good or bad with these characters based on that without actually exploring the match up in detail

That is true, but would it be that much different from the BR releasing a tier list slightly before a big patch with two new characters and drastic balance changes?
I know things like this happen (I doubt people could have known that Mewtwo would become a top tier, or that other characters would see drastic jumps like this), but it would be good for us to have a baseline we can discuss and work with.

 

That is true, but would it be that much different from the BR releasing a tier list slightly before a big patch with two new characters and drastic balance changes?
I know things like this happen (I doubt people could have known that Mewtwo would become a top tier, or that other characters would see drastic jumps like this), but it would be good for us to have a baseline we can discuss and work with.

I think rather than just releasing a match up list it should be more of a thread where all match ups can be discussed

 

I think rather than just releasing a match up list it should be more of a thread where all match ups can be discussed

That could be good too. Then at least we have a better idea on the general consensus of each matchup.

 

Diddy is NOT top tier. He would be high but definently not in the highest rank. He is either High or top of mid.

 

Diddy is NOT top tier. He would be high but definently not in the highest rank. He is either High or top of mid.

Diddy has an insanely good neutral game, amazing match up spread, pretty good kill confirms, a good combo game, and amazing results

 

ZSS below Rosaluma? Shulk bottom 15? I don't think so.

 

..........

 

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How come Roy is so low? Is he just a bad character or do not many players pick him up?

 

How come Roy is so low? Is he just a bad character or do not many players pick him up?

It's a little bit of both that make Roy's placement low, Roy also doesn't have very much depth as far as the future meta for him goes

 

Ah I see. Thanks for the reply.

 

Poor yoshi

 

Poor yoshi

I feel like Yoshi's placement is purely off of results as not a lot of people play him and those who do play Yoshi, don't do well on a national level. But on a local level he can do well

 

I seriously don't see at dead-last. While she is still easily bottom-tier, she still has blatant advantages over , , , , , , through exploiting their horrendous frame data and non-existent recoveries (bar Shulk's Jump Monado Art)

At the very least, I see her between and .

 

I seriously don't see at dead-last. While she is still easily bottom-tier, she still has blatant advantages over , , , , , , through exploiting their horrendous frame data and non-existent recoveries (bar Shulk's Jump Monado Art)

At the very least, I see her between and .

While I agree that Puff very well could be farther from last there isn't any players proving that right now.

 

While I agree that Puff very well could be farther from last there isn't any players proving that right now.

Her abysmal endurance makes her too risky to play, and her laughable priority isn't winning anybody over either (by itself, it's not terrible, but Jigglypuff doesn't take trades well at all by design). If players can get past those issues, then yeah, I could see Jiggs crawling up just a tad, but that will take a while if it happens at all.

Granted, if that happens, I also see Ganon and Roy going up a couple places - not much, but they are also just a tad too low.

 

I know that Lucina lacks the results, but I see no reason why she should be 2 tiers below Marth. Did they both not get virtually the same buffs? But I guess being a worse version of Marth, she is going to have little in representation.

I also feel that Roy is better than that, but he also has very little rep; can't think of anyone noteworthy aside from Ryo, and he uses Corrin and Ike more.

Go and watch Izaw's video for the Art of Marth and he will explain all the differences in Marth and Lucina. Lucina has better match ups against certain characters than Marth butt overall he has a better match up spread.

 

Her abysmal endurance makes her too risky to play, and her laughable priority isn't winning anybody over either (by itself, it's not terrible, but Jigglypuff doesn't take trades well at all by design). If players can get past those issues, then yeah, I could see Jiggs crawling up just a tad, but that will take a while if it happens at all.

Granted, if that happens, I also see Ganon and Roy going up a couple places - not much, but they are also just a tad too low.

Not too mention the fact that she gains almost nothing off of a throw. So you can mainly sit in shield if you are scared for making a move. Pound does good shield damage, but you don't really have to worry too much seeing as that most characters can run away from Puff long enough to gain most of their shield back.

 

FOX IS S TIER WOO
olimar isnt bottom tier wtf even
ok

 

Poor Ganondorf. When the game first came out I was really hoping he'd move up :'( At least my boy Bowser improved a little!

 

why all character just doesn't wear space suits? with the lunar gravity of this game and its snail's velocity that force players to choose only light and quick characters or heavy defensive character, i just wait nintendo to announce Smash5 so all this mess could take a end.

 

Hbox pls help Puff again

 

I generally avoid the fray when it comes to tier list debates, but here I am to give my three pennies.

Eh wot? I can't believe are bottom tier. Makes sense given they rely overmuch on custom move sets for optimal performance. Personally, I wouldn't play them w/o them.

*sigh* Anyways... I'm not going to get salty over this; are still going to be my primary characters. I trust and respect the 4BR's judgment on the tier list.

 

Ayyeee & hopefully we DONT Get Another patch because this i sperfectly fine & perfectly Balanced

sigh... I don't know, man. I still don't like it. The only one on this list that I care enough to play at high level is Cpt. Falcon. Then again, I've been starting to be less interested in Smash 4 and back to Melee/Project M... On the bright side, Bowser is better than Doctor Mario, so take that you faker!

 

My opinions:

Top/High Tier:

• I'm actually surprised that Diddy Kong's #1. So the nerfs meant nothing to him?

• Cloud being #2 doesn't really make a lot of sense to me. He's Top 10 at best, but not Top 5.

• Sheik needs to return to #1.

• Sonic is a tad bit too high.

• Zero Suit Samus could go up more.

• Corrin and Marth need to be switched.

• Finally, Mewtwo is high tier!

• Lucario being high tier kinda baffles me. To me, he's more like top-mid.

Mid-Tier

• Is Peach really mid? I think she and Lucario need their tiers switched.

• Lucina needs to be one tier below Marth, not two.

• I'm seriously wondering how Yoshi dropped from high tier.

• The Pits need to be closer to each other, as they're mostly the same character.

• Lucas could definitely move up some.

• As long as DK, Bowser, and Robin don't drop, I'm fine. If they do, I'll still main them.

Low Tier

• Not too much to say here, but Little Mac, Duck Hunt, and especially Falco and Roy need to rise.

• Sorry, but Kirby is fine where he is.

Bottom Tier

• I don't really care for the Mii Fighters.

• Excluding Zelda, ALL of them are highly underrated. Especially Charizard.

Other than that, nice tier list.

 

My opinions:

Top/High Tier:

• I'm actually surprised that Diddy Kong's #1. So the nerfs meant nothing to him?

• Cloud being #2 doesn't really make a lot of sense to me. He's Top 10 at best, but not Top 5.

• Sheik needs to return to #1.

• Sonic is a tad bit too high.

• Zero Suit Samus could go up more.

• Corrin and Marth need to be switched.

• Finally, Mewtwo is high tier!

• Lucario being high tier kinda baffles me. To me, he's more like top-mid.

Mid-Tier

• Is Peach really mid? I think she and Lucario need their tiers switched.

• Lucina needs to be one tier below Marth, not two.

• I'm seriously wondering how Yoshi dropped from high tier.

• The Pits need to be closer to each other, as they're mostly the same character.

• Lucas could definitely move up some.

• As long as DK, Bowser, and Robin don't drop, I'm fine. If they do, I'll still main them.

Low Tier

• Not too much to say here, but Little Mac, Duck Hunt, and especially Falco and Roy need to rise.

• Sorry, but Kirby is fine where he is.

Bottom Tier

• I don't really care for the Mii Fighters.

• Excluding Zelda, ALL of them are highly underrated. Especially Charizard.

Other than that, nice tier list.

I agree with a lot of these opinions. The one thing that sticks out to me is your claim on Zelda however. I think Zelda is also underrated.

 

I agree with a lot of these opinions. The one thing that sticks out to me is your claim on Zelda however. I think Zelda is also underrated.

By that, I meant Zelda is still Bottom Tier material in my opinion, but maybe she should rise a spot or two.