4/16/11 CPR2: Resuscitating Da Metagame ft GDX/Trump/Ryder/Kyon/Dtorr/2djeff & DDD^_^

[2-DJeff]

yea because when i play ryder even though i beat him 2stock or better i dont feel safe about the mu.
like i want to be to the point where i just shut down marth

 

[CPRman01]

Hey, its Chayne, I'm mega-glad you guys had Fun. Anyway, I look forward to hearing your feedback. When we doing this again?

 

[manofgames4555]

I woulda won this if Nick woke me up to enter singles.

Maybe



















probably

Dang! I see what you mean...Hrnut :/ lol!

 

[gallax]

I hope they don't post the new PRs because some dumb ish is happening

Let's hope you don't ever play like the way you feel lol

Btw gallax ur wins vs seibrik means nothing....don't ask me why that it ask the pr panel...=/

Yeah it horrible. THey dont want me on for dumb reasons. While ryo's win vs me counts in a tourney where we argree they dont count, my wins vs seibrik in a match where we both understood that they did count doesnt count? That come complte bs.

I cant believe what happened on the PR's. I just cant.

 

[2-DJeff]

We should do our own

 

[_Dice]

We should do our own

I'd be willing to do a spreadsheet and make a formula to do it all so it'll be easy to upkeep (just enter in each new win).

 

[2-DJeff]

im down but you gotta ask the rest of cfl

 

[_Dice]

Yeah i know. i might just do it on my own out of boredom. and then offer it if cfl wants a list.

 

[2-DJeff]

ok lol you should add up all of this seasons tourneyments then

 

[_Dice]

Could you link me to the tournaments jeff? i don't really know which ones i should be including. PM them to me if you don't mind.

 

[2-DJeff]

ok
i can do that and ill like some help if im missing any

 

[gallax]

I'd be willing to do a spreadsheet and make a formula to do it all so it'll be easy to upkeep (just enter in each new win).

Already started and got the formulas ready and everything.

 

[_Dice]

Already started and got the formulas ready and everything.

let's let the guy who heavily reasearches sport theory do the work over the engineer now shall we?

 

[OverLade]

Leon sadly does not impress me...now mikehaze or royR or my boy Kadaj those mofos put it down lol


I'll play more marth for you jeff and actually play him well...maybe..roba...nah I'm not gonna do it lol

Btw gallax ur wins vs seibrik means nothing....don't ask me why that it ask the pr panel...=/

Leon and Mr. R are more impressive than any USA marth players I think their metagame is just bad.

We should do our own

And remember back when I said this and nobody wanted to do it. However we should use the same formula for calculating that the PR uses. I've already explained 345 times why a statistical spreadsheet would be incredibly innacurate, especially because of Tampa. If you want an even mildly accurate PR for CFL it has to be made by hand.

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

So.

I think i wasted 4$ on a premium membership last week.

 

[_Dice]

And yet Halzy, the current PR method becomes heavily favored to both friends of the people making it, as well as the people who play the PR the most. AKA it would likely be that Orlando has a distinct advantage because we OFTEN play D-torr, Kyon, HRNUT, GAllax, GDX, Radix, 2dJeff, all of which would have a distinct possibility of being on the PR.
Yet a PR spreadsheet formula that included wins vs randoms (though obviously worth less than wins vs PRs) would allow tampa to continually compete for PR spots since the best in tampa would consistantly be beating the rest of tampa.

I'm thinking everyone starts at 10 points, and each win counts as (LOG(points of loser)) Points. which would mean that as you beat people you add 1 point minimum per win in a bracket/money match.

A method like that would constantly allow competition, by using a LOG function it keeps a ceiling closer to allow competition near the top, but also allows players who beat other non top players to compete at a flat rate as well. and it keeps the gap between top player and mediocre player fairly large, as every win a top player gets vs other good players is always worth more than the mediocre players wins vs mediocre players.

EDIT: also a method like this would allow doubles wins to count as well, since it is no longer based on an arbitrary "who is better in this moment" game as opposed to who has beaten the best career players, though to avoid a skew towards doubles, a doubles match would likely have to be worth .5 to .75 the amount of points.

 

[HRNUT (Honey Roasted)]

Gallax the way it apparently works is if you beat someone but lose to that person the record is voided out, worst because you lost to him twice. So I said let me get this straight players don't get any reward for beating a top ranked player unless they keep a winning record over their head....

so basically enter a tourney beat everyone once and never enter again for the season and you should get on...essentially...pretty stupid I know

Its mainly because you get punished worst for entering tournies and losing rather than if you enter once beat everyone and stop playing

 

[OverLade]

The current PR system is flawed but a statistically system is still easily very flawed. Players like Ganja and Viper who place consistently in their region but may rarely play those outside of their region would be ranked top 5 due to high consistency, even if they never beat anyone really good. If some random kid down the street had a tournament every month and kept winning then he'd be 1st on the PR due to no random losses, even if all he was beating is his friends.

I completely disagree that the PR is biased towards "friends of the panelists" and I think you should definitely wait for an explanation before you make a crazy accusation like that.

 

[gallax]

Guys, i get it. I really do. Im fed up with politics of smash so much right now I could really care less about them right now. Get at me when u come to my tourney or next time we meet.

 

[VSC.D-Torr]

You're a PR member in my eyes, Gallax.

They'd probably think I'm biased for thinking that though.

 

[gallax]

Thanks d-torr. At least I dont have any pressure on me to stay on the PR's now

 

[_Dice]

The current PR system is flawed but a statistically system is still easily very flawed. Players like Ganja and Viper who place consistently in their region but may rarely play those outside of their region would be ranked top 5 due to high consistency, even if they never beat anyone really good. If some random kid down the street had a tournament every month and kept winning then he'd be 1st on the PR due to no random losses, even if all he was beating is his friends.

I completely disagree that the PR is biased towards "friends of the panelists" and I think you should definitely wait for an explanation before you make a crazy accusation like that.

I'm not saying it's super based on friendship or anything. but if all other things are equal i'd say they pick their friend over the other guy.

 

[OverLade]

I've participated in discussion for making the PRs, though this PR I didn't really look into that. However 2 or 3 PRs ago we tied up Hrnut and Nick Riddle... If there were any potential ties we would look for tie breakers. Like I said I have no idea what's really good with the new PR but I'm sure it's pretty realistic.

 

[_Dice]

I've participated in discussion for making the PRs, though this PR I didn't really look into that. However 2 or 3 PRs ago we tied up Hrnut and Nick Riddle... If there were any potential ties we would look for tie breakers. Like I said I have no idea what's really good with the new PR but I'm sure it's pretty realistic.

It's just a flaw in the panelist method of selection, it's a familiarity bias that just exists and nothing really can be done about it. it's not claiming any corruption or anything, it's just how people think thats the problem.

though a statistical LOG method would put viper higher up on the list, it would not put him near the top, since the people he would be beating would all be low point value players. while someone winning an orlando tournament you attended would have to beat out many good players. not to mention a potential point requirement to be considered for PR ranking.

for instance, 150 point minimum means that 15 no win players have to attend in order for them to get any PR points, while that number would increase as the season (and next seasons) go on it does prevent any of the issues you stated.

viper would have to attend tournaments with big names (or high attendance numbers) in order to even begin gaining points (and thus prestige for his region).

 

[2-DJeff]

Wasbt really including tampa but hey the more the marrier

 

[HRNUT (Honey Roasted)]

Wasbt......................


























Robabky meant Wasn't

 

[_Dice]

No HRnut i'm pretty sure it Wasbt a typo. i mean the apostrophe isn't even near the b key.

 

[gallax]

Tamps is a part of CFL. They should be included in CFL pr's if needed. That would mean more traveling to tampa tourneys by us though D:

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

SO. When i woke up i thought i twas robabky playing with Apopka today.

Turns out i actually wasbt.

 

[SAX]

SO. When i woke up i thought i twas robabky playing with Apopka today.

Turns out i actually wasbt.

Too good.
Hahahaha

So does anyone know where the thread is for monkey units 7 in Europe? I can't find it.

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

google it.

It's robabky there.

 

[SAX]

It just led me back to this link lol.

 

[Exdeath]

It just led me back to this link lol.

It wasbt doing that for me.

I completely disagree that the PR is biased towards "friends of the panelists" and I think you should definitely wait for an explanation before you make a crazy accusation like that.

I don't think that it was necessarily that they decided to **** Gallax over because of who he is, but rather were influenced when they made the much more subjective ethical decisions (e.g. Ryo Otronicon vs. having a win over Seibrik). When Gallax has clearly displayed the qualities of a PR level player (beating Seibrik, MVD, etc., dominating Orlando in general, and only losing to very high level PR players such as you, HRNut, and ESAM). IMO it looks incredibly flawed as a result.

Furthermore, as HRNut said, the PR discourages entering a tournament more than once or twice, especially high level tournaments. I used to think that it would be bad for FL to have a split PR, but as more players have stepped it up and this issue of inaccuracy has come up, I feel that the PR is currently ineffective as an actual tool for OoS. I believe that two separate PRs could be assembled that would look about as strong as the 8 man PR did when it was started.

As far as the statistical PR goes, I think that you're overestimating the effects of players who dominate lesser sub-regions (e.g. Viper in Fort Myers). The statistical impact of dominant players is curbed not too long into record keeping. In this case, Viper will probably be higher than normal (it wouldn't be odd to see Viper near Radix, for example), but he shouldn't make it into the top 10 without actually having a solid record in addition to that. This could actually happen, seeing as Viper has performed decently when he's come to Orlando (he has a winning record over GDX, for example).

 

[Exdeath]

Double Post

 

[SAX]

It wasbt doing that for me.

Then could you post the link for me?

 

[gallax]

It wasbt doing that for me.



I don't think that it was necessarily that they decided to **** Gallax over because of who he is, but rather were influenced when they made the much more subjective ethical decisions (e.g. Ryo Otronicon vs. having a win over Seibrik). When Gallax has clearly displayed the qualities of a PR level player (beating Seibrik, MVD, etc., dominating Orlando in general, and only losing to very high level PR players such as you, HRNut, and ESAM). IMO it looks incredibly flawed as a result.

Furthermore, as HRNut said, the PR discourages entering a tournament more than once or twice, especially high level tournaments. I used to think that it would be bad for FL to have a split PR, but as more players have stepped it up and this issue of inaccuracy has come up, I feel that the PR is currently ineffective as an actual tool for OoS. I believe that two separate PRs could be assembled that would look about as strong as the 8 man PR did when it was started.

As far as the statistical PR goes, I think that you're overestimating the effects of players who dominate lesser sub-regions (e.g. Viper in Fort Myers). The statistical impact of dominant players is curbed not too long into record keeping. In this case, Viper will probably be higher than normal (it wouldn't be odd to see Viper near Radix, for example), but he shouldn't make it into the top 10 without actually having a solid record in addition to that. This could actually happen, seeing as Viper has performed decently when he's come to Orlando (he has a winning record over GDX, for example).

Xdeath is the man right now. I am supportive of a split PR now. We should do one.

 

[2-DJeff]

Let's do it then

 

[pesticide]

SO. When i woke up i thought i twas robabky playing with Apopka today.

Turns out i actually wasbt.

When is the results thread gonna be made??

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

So pest.
Hows My Little Pony going.

 

[pesticide]

pretty good. watched "Dragonshy" earlier

starting to get into this show slowly but surely