3DS Legal stages?

[Woohoo982]

Reset Bomb is going to Counterpick.

 

[NegaNixx]

Reset Bomb is going to Counterpick.

There are no counterpicks in an FLSS system

 

[Jaguar360]

I just had a nice play session today where I experimented with all or most of the stages mentioned in the thread. Thoughts:

Spoiler

• Really digging Reset Bomb Factory right now. The platform placement on both transformations are weird, but interesting as well. The diagonal platforms on the second transformation take a bit of getting used to, but aren't really problematic. I noticed when playing Pikachu that his movement is really great on this stage complemented with Quick Attack. The weird spiky dragon hazard thing on the bottom of the second transformation is mostly irrelevant tbh. The sides have lower blast zones than the average stage, which is good for characters with good back and forward throws. Definitely a good counterpick stage imo.
• Rainbow Road is really fun. Cars are easily to avoided, especially for characters like Greninja with good mobility. Most of the stage's layouts are really cool. However, the section where you're basically forced into a corner with the diagonal ramp with cars above you is kind of awkward to fight on and the stage does change which sections you go to every other time (thankfully there are only two patterns though). Other than those things, I like this stage and would like to see it as a counterpick.
• Brinstar seems okay. Once you get used to the gap on the base platform, it's cool to fight on. The blastzone on the top is kind of low, but not too low, which is cool for characters with vertical k.o. moves like Mewtwo. Lava is almost a non-issue. Only real problem I have with this stage is that characters with poor recoveries are screwed if they're caught in the gap when it breaks, but this can be solved with a little adaptation really. I support this stage as a counterpick.
• Tomodachi Life is interesting. The ceiling is low on the upper floors and roof, which is again good for Mewtwo, Greninja and other vertical k.o.ers. Also good for characters with bad recoveries since the distance between the bottom blast zone and bottom ledge is short. Horizontal projectiles lose a lot of viability on this stage since characters can move from floor to floor with such ease. Camping might be an issue. Not too sure on this one, but leaning towards counterpick for now.
• Feelings on Mute City are still the same. Characters can fight pretty normally for the most part on the two platforms and the two cars aren't problems. The hazardous road isn't too difficult to fall onto, though characters with recoveries that aren't too quick to activate or are punishable can struggle to recover because they will either hit the road or get punished on the platform since there are no ledges. Overall this is a fun stage with great music and I hope it becomes a counterpick, but it does have a couple issues or weird things that may need to be adjusted to.
• Unova Pokemon League is better than I remembered. Platform placement is solid; having Pokemon Stadium's placement on 3DS is nice. Ramps are kind of high risk/high reward since they can get some early k.o.s with horizontal k.o. moves, but are vulnerable to destruction if one of the dragons appears. Speaking of the dragons, Zekrom's attacks are easy to avoid and the stage reminds me of Halberd when he appears. I didn't see Reshiram at all today strangely enough, but I remember the flames being kind of difficult to avoid when the hit center stage. Overall, this is a cool stage, but Reshiram may be problematic. Thinking that it could be a good counterpick though.
• Spirit Train is okay to fight on, but I'm not sure if I like it so much. One of the things bothering me is that you can knock someone off the stage to the right and immediately kill them when they hit the track on the broken carriage and the carriage with multiple platforms. Also, the sudden movement of the stage can be jarring at times. Not really liking this right now.
• Jungle Japes has a cool layout and I kind of like it right now. I do think that the low distance between the platforms and the river can be a bit unfair and janky though. Still, viewing the river as a blastzone that you can escape from with a second jump or quick and long recovery helps. Unsure on this stage.
• Paper Mario is pretty bad competitively imo. The third transformation is horrible since they're is little room to move with the the bowser head in the middle screws things up with the gap in his mouth and the lack of ledges. The wind is annoying on the first transformation and the walk-off doesn't help its case. Second tranformation is okay imo, but the bouncing of the ship is a bit jarring. Dislike this one.

Revised list:
Starter

• Battlefield
• Final Destination
• Yoshi's Island
• Omega stages (Counterpick or paired with FD if 3 stage starter list)
  
• Prism Tower (Counterpick if 3 stage starter list)

Counterpick

• Arena Ferox
• Reset Bomb Factory
• Brinstar
• Unova Pokemon League
• Mute City
• Rainbow Road
• Tomodachi Life
• (possible) Jungle Japes

 

[NegaNixx]

Do you all really think that separating FD and Omega forms is a good idea? I don't think the wall jump dynamic is so game changing as to require two strikes for essentially two FDs. Just allow Omegas throughout (including FD) especially considering there are more than two Omega Forms.

 

[Infinite901]

Do you all really think that separating FD and Omega forms is a good idea? I don't think the wall jump dynamic is so game changing as to require two strikes for essentially two FDs. Just allow Omegas throughout (including FD) especially considering there are more than Omega Forms.

Exactly. Stage striking should go to FD, but counterpicking should go to their choice, and striking FD will strike all omegas.

 

[NegaNixx]

Exactly. Stage striking should go to FD, but counterpicking should go to their choice, and striking FD will strike all omegas.

We could theoretically have a separate strike for Omegas. Say FD is the decided stage it is then decided from the three main forms of Omegas

Walled/Not Walled/Arena Ferox

So we'd do that after the initial stage strike. That I think is fair.

 

[Jaguar360]

I don't really care tbh. I honestly saw other people doing it so I just followed along, but they are really interchangeable imo aside from the wall jumps on some of them. Wall jumps really do matter for characters like Doc and Little Mac though.

 

[IsmaR]

Certain Omegas also allow certain characters to go under them. Not exactly gamechanging, but useful for recovery mix-ups.

 

[Routa]

There aren't really stages in the 3DS that are good for Little Mac (expect FD) so giving one more "flat" stage would be fair. We have a lot of stages with plathforms so 2 none plathformed stages would be nice. Also what is the point of Wall Jump if there aren't stages where you can use it?

 

[NegaNixx]

I'm pretty sure Little Mac would love Rainbow Road and Unova Pokemon League. Yoshi's Island isn't bad for him either.

We shouldn't (in my opinion) be basing a stage list on a single character, Little Mac is an Outlier on the graph. You don't judge based on the outlier you judge where the data is concentrated. That's why so many stages were banned in Brawl because they were based off of Metaknights performance which is only 34+ out of How many ever total match ups in Brawl.

 

[Routa]

I'm pretty sure Little Mac would love Rainbow Road and Unova Pokemon League. Yoshi's Island isn't bad for him either.

We shouldn't (in my opinion) be basing a stage list on a single character, Little Mac is an Outlier on the graph. You don't judge based on the outlier you judge where the data is concentrated. That's why so many stages were banned in Brawl because they were based off of Metaknights performance which is only 34+ out of How many ever total match ups in Brawl.

Well you are right. But is it fair if one character doesn't really have stages that he/she is good in? Also is it a bad thing if we have 2 stages without plathforms? I mean 2/7 (or more) isn't a lot, eh? Also they are balanced stages.

 

[NegaNixx]

Well you are right. But is it fair if one character doesn't really have stages that he/she is good in? Also is it a bad thing if we have 2 stages without plathforms? I mean 2/7 (or more) isn't a lot, eh? Also they are balanced stages.

Well I'd say its a bad thing if we lose a unique stage because of it. And to be fair the only stages that Little Mac shines in are Walkoffs. LittleMac will never get a favourable stage it's his character design mixed with competitive play.

 

[Routa]

Well I'd say its a bad thing if we lose a unique stage because of it.

Unique =/= Balanced

But I get your point. But for now I think for now we need stages that are good competitive wise and are very balanced and maybe later legalize more stages.

 

[NegaNixx]

It's a lot easier to take away stages later than add. Omegas as their own stage should be a last resort to reach a quota.

We've agreed (for the most part) 8 thus far, it's just that last one as 9 or 13 is optimal but 13 may be a tad too liberal to be fully accepted.

Battlefield
Omegas
Yoshi's Island
Prism Tower
Arena Ferox
Reset Bomb Forest
Rainbow Road
Brinstar

All add different elements Omegas just add the wall to aid recoveries. I main Marth that wall definitely helps with Cresent Slash recovery, but that's all it does. I'm also a big supporter of Unova Pokemon League because it helps those with lesser recoveries. Rainbow Road also helps because a lot of the stops are walk-offs. Mute City would also help but I prefer Unova because it still allows for offstage play and edge-guarding.

I'm definitley trying to make life a bit easier for Little Mac but he needs such a polarizing stage choice that it's easier to just find stages with those elements, then have two identical stages.

 

[Xeze]

How can you find 13 stages to be competitively legal? I mean, even the Wii U version has like 8-10 good competitive stages.

 

[Routa]

How can you find 13 stages to be competitively legal? I mean, even the Wii U version has like 8-10 good competitive stages.

I think 7 stages would be good idea. I mean having way too many stages is a bad thing. Also there are 7 stages that everyone thinks are/should be legal:

FD/Omegas
BF
Yoshi's Island
Prism Tower
Arena Ferox
Brinstar
Reset Bomb Forest

 

[NegaNixx]

How can you find 13 stages to be competitively legal? I mean, even the Wii U version has like 8-10 good competitive stages.

Not looking for 13, We're looking for 9. The Wii U version also has more than 10 competitive stages. But the two are not related other than the name super smash bros.

It's like saying that Smash Melee can't have it's six legal stages because smash 64 only has two.

I think 7 stages would be good idea. I mean having way too many stages is a bad thing. Also there are 7 stages that everyone thinks are/should be legal:

FD/Omegas
BF
Yoshi's Island
Prism Tower
Arena Ferox
Brinstar
Reset Bomb Forest

7 doesn't allow for proper Full List Stage Striking.
1L-2W-1L -> 5th
1L-2W-2L-2W-1L -> 9th
1L-2W-2L-2W-2L-2W-1L -> 13th
etc...

Always ensures that the loser gets the final say in the stage selection. As well as giving the most neutral picks amongst all games in a set over all potential match ups.

Double post Mah Bad

 

[Routa]

7 doesn't allow for proper Full List Stage Striking.
1L-2W-1L -> 5th
1L-2W-2L-2W-1L -> 9th
1L-2W-2L-2W-2L-2W-1L -> 13th
etc...

Always ensures that the loser gets the final say in the stage selection. As well as giving the most neutral picks amongst all games in a set over all potential match ups.

What about 1W-2L-2W-1L -> 7th?

 

[ParanoidDrone]

What about 1W-2L-2W-1L -> 7th?

That's unfair and biased in L's favor. I can't recall the exact theory offhand but it's fairest if the same player strikes first and last. (Something to do with a disadvantage when striking first and advantage when striking last that cancel out I think? Someone check me on this.)

 

[Routa]

Well I have mostly been fighting in Hypest Online Tournaments (lovely people I have to say), so most of my opinion is based on the rule set they use.

Hypest 3DS Tournament stage choosing rules:

• Players are to ban stages from the starters list in a 1-2-2-1 striking manner, taking turns to ban maps until there is one map left (Final Destination and Omega stages are treated as a single strike).
• The remaining stage will be played on for the first game.
• The winner of the first game may ban 2 stages from any of the 7 stages listed (including the counterpick stages).
• The losing player of the last game may then choose any stage to play on from the remaining 5 stages once the two bans are in place.
• Note that bans are reset after each game, meaning, that all 7 starter and counter-pick stages are available for banning/playing on in every game.

 

[NegaNixx]

I still say that 9 is preferable but I see nothing wrong with that stage rule set.

 

[hey_there]

Paper Mario is a really decent stage. It's also the only stage that actively pushes you away from its walk-off, which is a big pro in its favour. Though the 3rd transformation is really obnoxious, Mac/Doc (worst recoveries imo) can wall jump off of Bowser's spinning head and grab a ledge, mitigating abuse on their otherwise poor recoveries. The biggest issue is camping/not approaching during the 3rd transformation, but otherwise I think it's overall a pretty good stage competitively.

 

[NegaNixx]

Paper Mario is a really decent stage. It's also the only stage that actively pushes you away from its walk-off, which is a big pro in its favour. Though the 3rd transformation is really obnoxious, Mac/Doc (worst recoveries imo) can wall jump off of Bowser's spinning head and grab a ledge, mitigating abuse on their otherwise poor recoveries. The biggest issue is camping/not approaching during the 3rd transformation, but otherwise I think it's overall a pretty good stage competitively.

It's exclusion is more political than preferential. It's an upward climb to legalise the stage to the entire community. And we have enough stages to fit our quota without relying on it. I was all for that stage and I still am, but it's just not worth it. There are a lot of stages that could be legal and I'd love them all to be included but it's not going to happen from a political standpoint.

Unova Pokemon League
Tomadachi Life
Tortimer Island
Paper Mario
Mute City
Jungle Japes
Spirit Tracks
Corneria
Guar Plains
Distant Planet
Boxing Ring

I or anyone could make an argument for all of the above stages but it's way more than we need and would only lead to conflict within the community. We only need one of those to make the previous list (Battlefield/Omega Destination/Rainbow Road/Brinstar/Yoshi's Island/Prism Tower/Arena Ferox/Reset Bomb Forest) 9 which reaches a requirement for FLSS. So we try to find the most competitive of the stage list to minimise confrontation while maximising variety. We have a large diverse roster it requires a large diverse stage list but not so large as to create unnecessary collusion.

 

[Dapplegonger]

Paper Mario is a really decent stage. It's also the only stage that actively pushes you away from its walk-off, which is a big pro in its favour. Though the 3rd transformation is really obnoxious, Mac/Doc (worst recoveries imo) can wall jump off of Bowser's spinning head and grab a ledge, mitigating abuse on their otherwise poor recoveries. The biggest issue is camping/not approaching during the 3rd transformation, but otherwise I think it's overall a pretty good stage competitively.

But the third transformation has no grabbable ledges at all iirc. It's totally obnoxious, lends itself to SDs, has a stage hazard, has no solid ground, and makes it incredibly easy to camp. Pretty much all transforming/moving stages are only ever legal because they have a really strong neutral stage underneath everything that balances out the really strange transformations/hazards (Halberd, Pokémon Stadium, Delfino Plaza, Lumiose City, Castle Siege, etc). Paper Mario has nothing of the sort. One transformation has a walkoff, a spring, and wind. The second transformation is pretty large, with a rocking stage and moving closer to the upper blast zone. And the last transformation is garbage. There is good counterpick material in there with the first and second transformations, but no solid neutral to balance out the garbage that is the third transformation.

EDIT: Also, I think that Tortimer Island should be looked at as a counterpick doubles stage in even more conservative rulesets. It's large size works nicely with doubles, and the items don't play a very large role in gameplay. I think it should actually replace Lumiose City in a similar way that Kongo Jungle 64 replaces FoD in doubles lists in Melee. I think that doubles requires a consistently solid ground that Lumiose City doesn't offer but Tortimer does.

 

[L9999]

Battlefield
Final Destination
Yoshi's Island
Lumiose City
Arena Ferox
Reset Bomb Forest
Tomodachi Life
Brinstar
Unova Pokemon League

 

[hey_there]

We only need one of those to make the previous list (Battlefield/Omega Destination/Rainbow Road/Brinstar/Yoshi's Island/Prism Tower/Arena Ferox/Reset Bomb Forest) 9 which reaches a requirement for FLSS.

My issue with your list of 8 standard stages is that Paper Mario is a more competitive stage than Rainbow Road, and fits quite well over it. I claim it's a more competitive stage because despite not being static, it's both completely predictable and there are no stage hazards that attack the players, unlike Rainbow Road. Personally I love Rainbow Road, but it has a a transformation without safe spots from the Shy Guys, which makes it less desirable for competition in my eyes.

Anyway, my vote for the stages you listed other than Paper Mario is either Tortimer Island or UPL. Tortimer Island is pretty inoffensive, though fruit and sharks can sometimes be a bit intrusive, and it sucks that one side of the stage never has a grabbable edge. I think everyone agrees UPL with Zekrom is totally fine, but Reshiram is pretty annoying, though not game changing imo. As for the other stages, I have been successfully camped and have successfully camped people on Tomodachi Life and Guar Plains, so I don't think they're fit for competitive play. The walk-offs in Boxing Ring and Distant Planet present the same problems any stage with permanent walk-offs has. Corneria and Japes are both very obnoxious, with the intrusive lasers and ridiculously low ceiling on the former, and a windbox that's basically death at any percent beneath the latter. Mute City and Spirit Tracks are interesting stages with dangerous floors instead of edge guarding, but that isn't necessarily a bad thing.

But the third transformation has no grabbable ledges at all iirc. It's totally obnoxious, lends itself to SDs, has a stage hazard, has no solid ground, and makes it incredibly easy to camp.

The floating platforms on either side of Bowser have grabbable edges, actually. I agree the third transformation is obnoxious, but the first and second transformations are solid. Everything about the stage, including the minor randomness of whale/blooper and Bowser's spin, is on a strict timer, making it all very easy to predict and play on. I wouldn't put it over Battlefield, but it's a good choice for counterpick.

 

[Dapplegonger]

The floating platforms on either side of Bowser have grabbable edges, actually. I agree the third transformation is obnoxious, but the first and second transformations are solid. Everything about the stage, including the minor randomness of whale/blooper and Bowser's spin, is on a strict timer, making it all very easy to predict and play on. I wouldn't put it over Battlefield, but it's a good choice for counterpick.

I agree that the first two transformations are good stages, but they are good counterpick stages. The stage needs a solid neutral around which the transformations are centered. The rock transformation in Pokémon Stadium works because the default layout is just so good. Walkoffs in Delfino are fine because the default layout is really solid. Caves of life in Arena Ferox work because it is Final Destination in between the bad stuff. Paper Mario is acceptable to acceptable to bad, whereas the ones that do work are great to acceptable/bad.

EDIT: Also, I do think that we should take into consideration the fact that character matchups matter on each of these stages. To properly demonstrate what I mean, I'm going to create an extreme but simple example. Say two characters will be playing against eachother, Character 1 and Character 2. If we have five stages, three of which benefit Character 1 and one of which benefits Character 2 and one is neutral, the first match will not take place on the actually neutral one: it will take place on something that benefits Character 1. Obviously we can't balance it for every matchup in the game, but we can try and generalize. We can divide the stages into categories: good for projectiles vs good for rushdown, good for mobile vs good for slow, good for vertical killers vs good for horizontal killers. We could even just examine the top tier matchups and organize how good each stage is for some of the more common matchups. Then we can organize our list so that for the most matchups possible, the most neutral stage possible is chosen by stage striking. If we do starter vs counterpick, we also have to take into consideration that if we, for example, have several stages that benefit the same type of character, it will be impossible for someone playing against that character to ban stages that won't severely disadvantage them (an extreme character like Little Mac won't be able to ban 5 super dynamic stages that will severely hurt his chances). This has turned into a bit of a rant so...

tl;dr: We need to make sure that most matchups will play out on the most neutral stage possible for the first match, and no character will have to play on a severely disadvantageous stage if the player bans stuff intelligently.

 

[NegaNixx]

My issue with your list of 8 standard stages is that Paper Mario is a more competitive stage than Rainbow Road, and fits quite well over it. I claim it's a more competitive stage because despite not being static, it's both completely predictable and there are no stage hazards that attack the players, unlike Rainbow Road. Personally I love Rainbow Road, but it has a a transformation without safe spots from the Shy Guys, which makes it less desirable for competition in my eyes.

Every transformation on Rainbow Road has safe zones from the Shy Guys, and the only transformation I can think of without a safe zone has the shy guys showing where they'll come from. You also have the benefit is seeing where you will be going next by just looking at the stage. The Shy Guys don't kill until late, unless they're at the top of the screen where they obviously kill earlier.

Paper Mario like I said is a great stage and I love it. But it has just as much going against it as it does going for it. I'm well aware that everything is on a timer. Except Bowser's head closing shut, but Rainbow Road is the more competitive stage, when looking at it as a whole instead of hazard vs hazard. It offers areas that the whole cast can succeed in as opposed to Paper Mario which is more volatile to the whole cast.

 

[hey_there]

Every transformation on Rainbow Road has safe zones from the Shy Guys, and the only transformation I can think of without a safe zone has the shy guys showing where they'll come from.

Paper Mario like I said is a great stage and I love it. But it has just as much going against it as it does going for it. I'm well aware that everything is on a timer. Except Bowser's head closing shut, but Rainbow Road is the more competitive stage, when looking at it as a whole instead of hazard vs hazard. It offers areas that the whole cast can succeed in as opposed to Paper Mario which is more volatile to the whole cast.

http://smashboards.com/threads/rainbow-road-research-notes.374070/ The area labelled 'Ramp' doesn't have safe spots.

If it didn't have random Shy guys, it wouldn't be arguing against it, but as it is they are a random hazard that both interrupts the match and can kill players, which is why I would rather have a different stage. And the whole cast can succeed Paper Mario, even Mac. Mac can take full advantage of wall jumping during the third transformation to deal edge guarding, and he also enjoys the close quarters of the smaller platforms.

In any case, you have Paper Mario as the possible 9th stage in your list, so why can't it be included?

 

[Dapplegonger]

While I don't think either Paper Mario or Rainbow Road should be the 9th stage (don't understand why they are the only ones being discussed at this point, as I've expressed in earlier posts Tortimer and Unova seem to be better picks), Rainbow Road seems to be less intrusive matchups wise. Sure most of the transformations are safe when you are in the air, and that seems to benefit more mobile characters, but there are also platforms that permit even less mobile characters to stay safe. Unova, however, seems to be an upgrade to Rainbow Road. Both have hazards that take away from the overall stage, but Unova is less affected by hazards and still maintains a unique platform layout that isn't degenerate to competitive play. We already have Lumiose which is basically Rainbow Road minus hazards and with fewer degenerate layouts (only one section of walkoffs vs most sections in Rainbow Road), so Unova seems to be a better fit. Tortimer Island as well, despite the size, still seems to be a good fit over Rainbow Road.

 

[NegaNixx]

http://smashboards.com/threads/rainbow-road-research-notes.374070/ The area labelled 'Ramp' doesn't have safe spots.

If it didn't have random Shy guys, it wouldn't be arguing against it, but as it is they are a random hazard that both interrupts the match and can kill players, which is why I would rather have a different stage. And the whole cast can succeed Paper Mario, even Mac. Mac can take full advantage of wall jumping during the third transformation to deal edge guarding, and he also enjoys the close quarters of the smaller platforms.

In any case, you have Paper Mario as the possible 9th stage in your list, so why can't it be included?

I'm fine with I I'm just playing devils advocate.

While I don't think either Paper Mario or Rainbow Road should be the 9th stage (don't understand why they are the only ones being discussed at this point, as I've expressed in earlier posts Tortimer and Unova seem to be better picks), Rainbow Road seems to be less intrusive matchups wise. Sure most of the transformations are safe when you are in the air, and that seems to benefit more mobile characters, but there are also platforms that permit even less mobile characters to stay safe. Unova, however, seems to be an upgrade to Rainbow Road. Both have hazards that take away from the overall stage, but Unova is less affected by hazards and still maintains a unique platform layout that isn't degenerate to competitive play. We already have Lumiose which is basically Rainbow Road minus hazards and with fewer degenerate layouts (only one section of walkoffs vs most sections in Rainbow Road), so Unova seems to be a better fit. Tortimer Island as well, despite the size, still seems to be a good fit over Rainbow Road.

The only thing Prism Tower and Rainbow Road have in common are that they are Travel/Transforming and they both have an FD like phase.

And I do enjoy me some Unpva Pokemon League.

So
Battlefield
Omega Destination
Yoshi's Island
Prism Tower
Arena Ferox
Reset Bomb Forest
Brinstar
Unova Pokemon League/Paper Mario/Rainbow Road/Tortimer

Something to that effect?

 

[Dapplegonger]

I think that's good. While I disagree with paper mario and rainbow road, I'm willing to compromise if the other two are taken into serious consideration as well.

 

[ShortcutButton]

A stage (Tomadachi Life) is not well suited for competitive play if Sonic can uthrow -> uair on the top platform and kill almost immediately.


EDIT: uthrow ---> upb ---> uair

 

[Infinite901]

What's up with everyone considering Brinstar as a sure stage? I... don't like it. It's mostly the fact that the when the acid goes all the way up it leaves almost nor room to fight. Also it can cause bs saves, and it's incredibly difficult to tell and a bit arbitrary when the acid is technically on-screen or no. I don't like it.

My list would be:
FD/Omegas
Battlefield
Yoshi's Island
Prism Tower
Arena Ferox
Reset Bomb
Jungle Japes (It's not bad, guys. Respect the water and you'll be golden.)
Unova League

And I'm unsure of a ninth... I've been doing a lot of testing recently and these are the stages that seem very solid, but I'm having a hard time deciding on a ninth. Mute City seems good, but it's very different. Distant Planet's main problem is actually he pellets imo. The battle will hardly ever go to the walkoff. Tomodachi has the obvious camp potential, but I think we really need a major example to flat out strike it. I've been leaning towards Tortimer, as none of the issues are huge, but it has a bunch of small issues that are a detriment. Paper Mario is really good except for transformation 3, though the ship lifting up can also cause some strange happenings. Rainbow Road I dislike immensely, for the same reason as Brinstar, you're often left with hardly any room to fight. You can avoid the hazards, yes, but then you're actively doing that instead of fighting. (This could be said for Reshiram, but I think it's not as extreme.)

 

[Dapplegonger]

What's up with everyone considering Brinstar as a sure stage? I... don't like it. It's mostly the fact that the when the acid goes all the way up it leaves almost nor room to fight. Also it can cause bs saves, and it's incredibly difficult to tell and a bit arbitrary when the acid is technically on-screen or no. I don't like it.

I think the reasoning behind Brinstar is that the acid stays for a much shorter time the higher up the acid goes. The acid barely gets all the way up before sinking back down for the highest level. Also, I'm not sure why you're concerned with "bs saves" when you are okay with Mute City, which has those the entire time. I'm sure someone else would be able to explain it better than I, but I do think Brinstar is a viable stage.

EDIT: Brinstar was also legal in many Brawl rulesets when Meta Knight was banned. The biggest issue appears to be sharking, as the lava takes a really long time to kill and doesn't stay more than a couple of seconds at a time. Now that we have Meta Knight out of the picture, sharking is much less of an issue and the stage is much more viable.

 

[ぱみゅ]

A stage (Tomadachi Life) is not well suited for competitive play if Sonic can uthrow -> uair on the top platform and kill almost immediately.

Why would anyone competent get grabbed at the top platform against Sonic?

And Brinstar works on a timer that seems identical than Brawl's.

 

[Jaguar360]

To add onto that, any character afraid of the insane vertical k.o. potency at the top should try to stay in the middle and bottom platforms really.

Also, I think it's pretty obvious that this game is going to have a slightly more open and different stage list than the Wii U version. We should keep that in mind if we're picking 9+ stages for this game.

Stage List 3.0 (with 9 stages and a full strike system in mind this time since everybody seems to like that):
Battlefield
FD/Omega
Yoshi's Island
Prism Tower
Arena Ferox
Reset Bomb Factory
Brinstar
Unova Pokemon League
Mute City/Rainbow Road/Tomodachi Life

I considered Jungle Japes, but the water is just too close to the platforms imo. I can see this making some really sad deaths in tournaments that other stages won't have so much. The platform layout is so good, but it is just ruined by the closeness of the water to me.

Feeling really good about UPL right now. Reshiram is a butt, but even the flames aren't terrible to deal with. They do restrict the safe zones of the stage quite a bit though. Zekrom isn't too bad at all. The stage layout itself is great. Very much approve of this one.

My thoughts on Brinstar, Reset Bomb Factory, Mute City and Rainbow Road are the same pretty much:

• Really digging Reset Bomb Factory right now. The platform placement on both transformations are weird, but interesting as well. The diagonal platforms on the second transformation take a bit of getting used to, but aren't really problematic. I noticed when playing Pikachu that his movement is really great on this stage complemented with Quick Attack. The weird spiky dragon hazard thing on the bottom of the second transformation is mostly irrelevant tbh. The sides have lower blast zones than the average stage, which is good for characters with good back and forward throws. Definitely a good counterpick stage imo.
• Rainbow Road is really fun. Cars are easily to avoided, especially for characters like Greninja with good mobility. Most of the stage's layouts are really cool. However, the section where you're basically forced into a corner with the diagonal ramp with cars above you is kind of awkward to fight on and the stage does change which sections you go to every other time (thankfully there are only two patterns though). Other than those things, I like this stage and would like to see it as a counterpick.
• Brinstar seems okay. Once you get used to the gap on the base platform, it's cool to fight on. The blastzone on the top is kind of low, but not too low, which is cool for characters with vertical k.o. moves like Mewtwo. Lava is almost a non-issue. Only real problem I have with this stage is that characters with poor recoveries are screwed if they're caught in the gap when it breaks, but this can be solved with a little adaptation really. I support this stage as a counterpick.
• Feelings on Mute City are still the same. Characters can fight pretty normally for the most part on the two platforms and the two cars aren't problems. The hazardous road isn't too difficult to fall onto, though characters with recoveries that aren't too quick to activate or are punishable can struggle to recover because they will either hit the road or get punished on the platform since there are no ledges. Overall this is a fun stage with great music and I hope it becomes a counterpick, but it does have a couple issues or weird things that may need to be adjusted to.

 

[Routa]

If I had to choose from Mute City, Rainbow Road and Tomodachi Life, I would choose Mute City. Why? We all know that Tomo will be campfest and combo heavy characters will rule in there, so that is why I say no to it (also the low upper blastline).
Rainbow is still no to me. The karts are, if you ask me, too hazardous to my taste. I can't abuse karts the same way I can abuse the lava in Brinstar and slow characters will have hard time avoiding them. There are other reasons also, but I think I made my point.
Now Mute City... The road or the "floor" brings something new to the table. The stage isn't perfect, but if you ask me it is most balanced and most unique from thous 3 stages.

 

[NegaNixx]

Of the three I'm advicating for Rainbow Road but if UPL is included I'm fine with losing Rainbow Road. Does anybody know why the F-Zero stage in Melee was banned? Like the specific reasoning and if it applies to both Smash 4 and Rainbow Road.

 

[Dapplegonger]

Of the three I'm advicating for Rainbow Road but if UPL is included I'm fine with losing Rainbow Road. Does anybody know why the F-Zero stage in Melee was banned? Like the specific reasoning and if it applies to both Smash 4 and Rainbow Road.

It was primarily banned because of the lack of grabbable ledges that made Jigglypuff and peach ridiculously powerful on that stage. The ledges can be grabbed in rainbow road, but the carts are much more invasive than the f zero racers ever were.