3DS Legal stages?

[Raijinken]

I don't think I'd say Dreamland counts as variety, when unless they enforce the blast zone consistency based on past games, it's just flavorful Battlefield with a random element.

 

[Luigi player]

I don't think I'd say Dreamland counts as variety, when unless they enforce the blast zone consistency based on past games, it's just flavorful Battlefield with a random element.

The stagelayout would probably be bigger, dunno about the blastzone, and yeah it would have the tree. It also looks much better esthetically... imo 8)
Well with the bigger layout and probably different blastzone I'd put it as a different stage than BF.

 

[IsmaR]

Dreamland 64 wouldn't have any problem differentiating from BF.

Same with Miiverse if it wasn't (isn't?) Wii U exclusive.

 

[Routa]

Brinstars lava was seen as too strong very early in the game, and Arena Ferox is a super campfest that should've never been legal in the first place.

Lava isn't as a big problem as people think. I mean it isn't as bad as Mute City's road.

Arena Ferox is a super campfest? Have you even tried to play on Tomodachi Life? From my experience Arena Ferox is far from being a campfest. Camping in Arena Ferox is as hard as camping in BF. Ofc fighting wont be as fast phased as in BF, but it is far from being campy. Stages with no plathform as ideal for camping.

And the Tomodachi Life... I would rather have Dreamland as a starter stage. I mean have you guys fought against Cpt. Falcon in Tomodachi Life? It is very one sided (or in this case one altituded?). The person at the bottom plathform (or the stage floor) has a huge advantage.

 

[ぱみゅ]

Isn't only about the bottom floor, overall mobility is pretty potent
Any character that can juggle decently suddenly becomes a beast.

 

[NegaNixx]

My stage list looks like:

Battlefield
Final Destination
Yoshi's Island
Prism Tower
Arena Ferox
Reset Bomb Forest
Brinstar
Tomadachi Life
Unova Pokemon League
-
Alternatives:
Spirit Tracks
Mute City
Corneria
Jungle Japes
Tomadachi Life

FLSS used.

 

[Routa]

So it looks like legal stages for now are:
BF
FD/Omegas
Yoshi's Island
Prism Tower

Stages that have some flaws, but can be used:
Arena Ferox
Brinstar
Reset Bomb Forest

Stages that need more testing:
Unova Pokemon League
Jungle Japes

 

[Dapplegonger]

The Tortimer items really aren't too big a deal. The damage healed is negligible, and the items are basically just "item-ified" versions of moves that actual characters have (Diddy's banana, Peach's vegetable). The one problem for me is the lack of a grabbable ledge on one side, but I still think it's a viable stage.

As for Reset Bomb Forest, what exactly are the timings of the transformations? Like, how long does the first transformation stay relative to the crazy one? If the second transformation is much shorter than the first, like Pokémon Stadium, it shouldn't be much of an issue.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

The Tortimer items really aren't too big a deal. The damage healed is negligible, and the items are basically just "item-ified" versions of moves that actual characters have (Diddy's banana, Peach's vegetable). The one problem for me is the lack of a grabbable ledge on one side, but I still think it's a viable stage.

As for Reset Bomb Forest, what exactly are the timings of the transformations? Like, how long does the first transformation stay relative to the crazy one? If the second transformation is much shorter than the first, like Pokémon Stadium, it shouldn't be much of an issue.

The coconuts and durians sometimes explode when you throw them, although I can't recall offhand how much damage they do and I don't think anyone really knows how likely they are to do so. (Although I guess you can still draw parallels to Peach's odds of pulling a Bob-omb.)

 

[Dapplegonger]

Well Peach's vegetable thing and the banana are fine, but I didn't realize that they sometimes explode. Even if Peach can sometimes pull a bobomb, explosions might be a bit much.

 

[ぱみゅ]

Tortimer's Island only real issue is its size. It's gigantic and people usually live absurdly long.
Items are annoying and all but not a real problem, unless you REALLY consider honeycombs game-breaking (heads up: they aren't).

 

[Routa]

Reset Bomb Forest

• First phase lasts about 55 sec.
• First changing takes about 5 sec.
• Second phase lasts about 1min and 8 sec.
• Second changing takes about 7 sec.
• 15 sec after Second phase starts the hazard appears to the field and stays there for about 12-13 sec. It appears again after about 15 sec has gone since it last appeared and stays there again for about 12-13sec
• Hazard does about 12% and KOes at about 123%. Also it doesn't hurt the player when the player is grabing from any of the ledges.

 

[Woohoo982]

Reset Bomb Forest

• First phase lasts about 55 sec.
• First changing takes about 5 sec.
• Second phase lasts about 1min and 8 sec.
• Second changing takes about 7 sec.
• 15 sec after Second phase starts the hazard appears to the field and stays there for about 12-13 sec. It appears again after about 15 sec has gone since it last appeared and stays there again for about 12-13sec
• Hazard does about 12% and KOes at about 123%. Also it doesn't hurt the player when the player is grabing from any of the ledges.

Darn the crazy transformation lasts longer than the stable one. Really good chart though.
You think i should make a poll saying whether or not Reset Bomb Forest should be legal?

 

[Routa]

You think i should make a poll saying whether or not Reset Bomb Forest should be legal?

I think that would be a good idea.

 

[Infinite901]

I like to break down stage lists into how liberal you are with your stages, (breaking it into 1, 3, and 4x+1 sized lists for consistent striking) with larger stagelists having more potentially degenerate aspects:

1 Stage: (For Glory scrubs only)
Final Destination

3 Stage (This or 5 stage are probably the best)
Final Destination
Battlefield
Yoshi's Island 2

5 Stage: (My personal favorite list)
Final Destination
Battlefield
Yoshi's Island 2
Prism Tower
Arena Ferox

9 Stage: (I could see this happening occasionally)
Final Destination
Battlefield
Yoshi's Island 2
Prism Tower
Arena Ferox
Tomodachi Life
Tortimer Island
Jungle japes
Unova Pokemon League

13 Stage: (This is pushing it)
Final Destination
Battlefield
Yoshi's Island 2
Prism Tower
Arena Ferox
Tomodachi Life
Tortimer Island
Jungle Japes
Unova Pokemon League
Reset Bomb Forest
Distant Planet
Brinstar
Dream Land

17 Stage: (Experimental sets/friendlies)
Final Destination
Battlefield
Yoshi's Island 2
Prism Tower
Arena Ferox
Tomodachi Life
Tortimer Island
Jungle Japes
Unova Pokemon League
Reset Bomb Forest
Distant Planet
Brinstar
Dream Land
Mute City
Rainbow Road
Paper Mario
Boxing Ring

21 Stage: (Just going to do this one to get some outliers)
Final Destination
Battlefield
Yoshi's Island 2
Prism Tower
Arena Ferox
Tomodachi Life
Tortimer Island
Jungle Japes
Unova Pokemon League
Reset Bomb Forest
Distant Planet
Brinstar
Dream Land
Mute City
Rainbow Road
Paper Mario
Boxing Ring
Corneria
Spirit Train
Pictochat 2
Gaur Plain


And those last 2 or 3 lists are seriously, SERIOUSLY stretching it.

 

[ぱみゅ]

I personally would put Pictochat 2 in the 17-stage, it is no way worse than Boxing Ring or Dream Land.

 

[CSWooly]

I realise I forgot to include Prism Tower on my list.

 

[NerdThomas3]

Starters
FD
Battlefield
Yoshi's Island

Counters
Unova
Prism Tower
Brinstar
Tortimer Island
Arena Ferox
Boxing Ring
Corneria

Needs testing
Tomadachi Life
WarioWare Inc.
PictoChat 2
Find Mii

Banned
Everything Else

Yes, I know Boxing Ring has walk-offs, but it's balanced for the most part. No hazards to completely screw you over. Ignore the walk-ofss and it should be counterpicked. Omegas could be allowed, but some Omegas have wall-jumping capabilites while others are floating platforms with no walls to jump off of. Either way, they're legal. If agreed to play on FD, you can choose FD or an Omega. This way, no stages are banned. I'm hoping this rule becomes official.

 

[Routa]

Change Corneria into Reset Bomb Forest. Corneria's hazards impact the battle way too much. Also they are way too "random".

Also if you ask me, Omegas should be splited in to 2 groups, FD/Omegas and WJ-Omegas.

 

[clydeaker]

Tomodachi Life doesn't have any hazards, moving platforms, walk offs, transformations, low ceiling, Uneven sides, etc... so why would it be a counter pick? Are platforms now ban worthy? I know there not, but please explain to me why it's a counter pick instead of a starter.

 

[Kofu]

Tomodachi Life doesn't have any hazards, moving platforms, walk offs, transformations, low ceiling, Uneven sides, etc... so why would it be a counter pick? Are platforms now ban worthy? I know there not, but please explain to me why it's a counter pick instead of a platform.

More mobile characters can camp there against slower ones. I still think it's all right, though.

 

[Infinite901]

Tomodachi Life doesn't have any hazards, moving platforms, walk offs, transformations, low ceiling, Uneven sides, etc... so why would it be a counter pick? Are platforms now ban worthy? I know there not, but please explain to me why it's a counter pick instead of a starter.

Actually, the ceiling is EXTREMELY low. Rest kills Bowser from the top floor at ~30%.

 

[Routa]

More mobile characters can camp there against slower ones. I still think it's all right, though.

Fight as Ganondorf against Cpt. Falcon in Tomodachi Life. After that come back and tell us how balanced that stage is.

 

[Xeze]

My personal opinion on 3DS legal stages would be like this:

Starters:
Battlefield
Final Destination + Omega stages*
Yoshi's Island

Counterpicks:
Arena Ferox
Prism Tower
Rainbow Road (doubles only)**

Notes:
* not all omega stages should be allowed. Omegas like Balloon Fight due to the background color can be quite annoying to fight on.
** the reason why Rainbow Road can be allowed in doubles is due to the fact that when 4 human players are fighting in this stage, the Shy Guy karts won't show up which basically are the main hazard in this stage. Therefore it would be fine for 2 vs 2.

 

[Routa]

** the reason why Rainbow Road can be allowed in doubles is due to the fact that when 4 human players are fighting in this stage, the Shy Guy karts won't show up which basically are the main hazard in this stage. Therefore it would be fine for 2 vs 2.

Really? Can anyone els confirm the lack of Shy Guys in Rainbow Road, when there are 4 human players? I could see Rainbow Road being legal in doubles if the lack of Shy Guys is true.

 

[Xeze]

Yep I did many doubles battles with friends on that stage and the Shy Guys never appeared.
Reset Bomb Forest behaves in a similar way. With 4 human players, on the second part of the stage, the bonefish doesn't show up and the breakable structures aren't there. Only the 4 main platforms.

 

[Woohoo982]

Just a side story:
I was Bowser Jr. on Flat Zone 2. I rush at an opponent with Koopa Car,he jumps and....Jr loses a stock.
No joke-I literally SD'd by attacking.
Anything with lower blast line removal=ban

 

[ParanoidDrone]

Just a side story:
I was Bowser Jr. on Flat Zone 2. I rush at an opponent with Koopa Car,he jumps and....Jr loses a stock.
No joke-I literally SD'd by attacking.
Anything with lower blast line removal=ban

You can cancel the Clown Car dash by jumping at the very least, and I think you can tilt the stick backwards to force an early skid

 

[Jaguar360]

Starter

• Battlefield
• Final Destination
• Yoshi's Island

Counterpick

• Omega Stages (starter if 5 stage starter list)
  
• Prism Tower (starter if 5 stage starter list)
  
• Arena Ferox
• Tomodachi Life
• Brinstar
• Mute City

I personally see no problem with Omegas being starters, but we'd need a fifth stage to have a 5 starter list and none of the other stages fit for a starter other than maybe Prism Tower.

Arena Ferox is okay since it has no hazards or walkoffs or anything. The platform placement is weird and annoying, but it can be dealt with.

I don't have much experience on Tomodachi Life tbh, but on paper it seems like a fine counterpick. Camping with the levels of the apartment might be an issue, but otherwise it is okay: no walkoffs, no hazards, and a solid roof to fight on.

Brinstar's only real issue is the lava, which is not hard to avoid and only comes up occassionally. It isn't hard to prepare for, though one can be knocked into the lava. However, this is really similar to the laser and bomb on Halberd, a stage that has been legal for nearly the entire duration of Brawl and SSB4U. The platform placement is nice and it could potentially be a nice counterpick.

Mute City is the other counterpick I have italicized because of hazards and is probably the most controversial. This is an interesting stage imo because the entire bottom of the stage is a hazard. While hazards are generally uncompetitive, Mute City's hazard gives meteor smashes a new use for followups. It also changes the importance of recovery since characters that hit the bottom of the stage will always recover unless at high percents, characters with bad recoveries will still get punished by taking extra damage or dying, while characters with good recoveries will be able to make it back to the platforms fine, the way things should be.

The lack of ledges is also a factor on Mute City. This may hurt most characters when recovering, but not signicantly for most and some like Jigglypuff and Yoshi are hardly affected. It also makes for a nice counterpick in customs against Villagers and other ledge campers.

While the two racing cars are another "hazard", their exits/replacements are telegraphed since the game gives players warnings when a car is about to move offstage and be replaced.

I think Mute City is very viable as a counterpick personally, but the differences may be a bit too jarring for most, so it's up to the community.

Might touch on stages I didn't include later.

 

[NegaNixx]

How many stages would be ideal for the 3DS Version do you guys think.

I feel 9 is a safe pick. It's the optimal number for FLSS which is theoretically optimal for neutral stage picking throughout all three/five games and for all match ups in the game.

-
Battlefield
Final Destination/Omegas
Arena Ferox
Prism Tower
Yoshi's Island
-
Reset Bomb Forest
Rainbow Road
Brinstar
-
9th...
|Unova Pokemon League/Tomadachi Life/Spirit Tracks/Jungle Japes/Tortimer Island/Mute City|

Rainbow Road and Prisim Tower offer a nice contrast in transformations. While Rainbow Road's hazards are telegraphed based on location or from the alarm or just seeing them.

Reset Bomb Forest has breakable caves of life, and an unobtrusive hazard that at most stops spikes and at least does nothing to intrude.

Brinstar offers an odd changeable layout that can be abused to take advantage of poor recoveries as well as harm those who like the mobility of platforms. The Acid is shown well in advance and at most forces conflict.

The stages listed under 9th have some sort if volatile property to them that can theoretically make them inappropriate for competitive play.

Any input?

 

[SpScarecrow]

How many stages would be ideal for the 3DS Version do you guys think.

I feel 9 is a safe pick. It's the optimal number for FLSS which is theoretically optimal for neutral stage picking throughout all three/five games and for all match ups in the game.

-
Battlefield
Final Destination/Omegas
Arena Ferox
Prism Tower
Yoshi's Island
-
Reset Bomb Forest
Rainbow Road
Brinstar
-
9th...
|Unova Pokemon League/Tomadachi Life/Spirit Tracks/Jungle Japes/Tortimer Island/Mute City|

Rainbow Road and Prisim Tower offer a nice contrast in transformations. While Rainbow Road's hazards are telegraphed based on location or from the alarm or just seeing them.

Reset Bomb Forest has breakable caves of life, and an unobtrusive hazard that at most stops spikes and at least does nothing to intrude.

Brinstar offers an odd changeable layout that can be abused to take advantage of poor recoveries as well as harm those who like the mobility of platforms. The Acid is shown well in advance and at most forces conflict.

The stages listed under 9th have some sort if volatile property to them that can theoretically make them inappropriate for competitive play.

Any input?

Looking at this list, id take Jungle Japes Tomodachi Life and Mute City. The ground in Spirit Tracks can kill like the water in Jungle Japes but Jungle Japes is stationary and there's no worry about switching trains. Mute city hazards are easily advertised but I'd need to play on it more to say for sure. Tomodachi Life cause of no hazards. However the ceiling and floor are an issue as the bottom platform is also very low but that's why it's a counter pick. I'd say Tomodachi Life or Jungle Japes if we have to pick a 9th stage.

 

[Woohoo982]

Sure,the wii u version may be more prevalent,but why leave out the 3ds?
I think there should be a set of legal stages for it,as well.Heres my list:

Starter
Battlefield
Final Destination
Yoshi's Island

Counterpick
Arena Ferox
Prism Tower
Tomodachi Life
Brinstar
Omega Stages

Suspect
Reset Bomb Forest
Rainbow Road
Dream Land
Gaur Plain
Unova Pokemon League

Banned
Everything Else

UPDATE: Should Dream Land be legal and should I make a poll for the discussion?
(My default vote is yes)

 

[PUK]

Why paper mario is not a counterpick? There is like one walk off on one transformation, the 2nd transformation is really great, the 3rd is okay. I mean it's a 1000 miles better than gaur plain, unova, dream land. And even Brinstar maybe.
And yoshi island as a starter is insane, the ceiling is crazy low with a platform which TILTS, allowing some characters to do really silly kills. Prism tower on the opposite is the best transforming stage.

 

[Routa]

How many stages would be ideal for the 3DS Version do you guys think.

I feel 9 is a safe pick. It's the optimal number for FLSS which is theoretically optimal for neutral stage picking throughout all three/five games and for all match ups in the game.

-
Battlefield
Final Destination/Omegas
Arena Ferox
Prism Tower
Yoshi's Island
-
Reset Bomb Forest
Rainbow Road
Brinstar
-
9th...
|Unova Pokemon League/Tomadachi Life/Spirit Tracks/Jungle Japes/Tortimer Island/Mute City|

Rainbow Road and Prisim Tower offer a nice contrast in transformations. While Rainbow Road's hazards are telegraphed based on location or from the alarm or just seeing them.

Reset Bomb Forest has breakable caves of life, and an unobtrusive hazard that at most stops spikes and at least does nothing to intrude.

Brinstar offers an odd changeable layout that can be abused to take advantage of poor recoveries as well as harm those who like the mobility of platforms. The Acid is shown well in advance and at most forces conflict.

The stages listed under 9th have some sort if volatile property to them that can theoretically make them inappropriate for competitive play.

Any input?

I like it. If you ask me we could give Omegas own spot. I don't mean like every Omega but the ones that have long walls (or ledges or what ever they are) like in Wily Castle Omega. You know... Like WJ Omegas. At least there would not be hazards. But if I had to choose from Unova, Tomo, Spirit, JJ, Torti and Mute... I would choose maybe Unova or JJ. I really like Unova tbh. Only bad thing about that stage is Reshi and its flame. JJ is nice stage too, but as I have said before, the water sucks. If it didn't have water, it would be legal in 1 sec. But that is my opinion.

Ofc we could start striking from everystage, but some people think that is a stupid idea (I personally support full stage striking).

 

[NegaNixx]

Why paper mario is not a counterpick? There is like one walk off on one transformation, the 2nd transformation is really great, the 3rd is okay. I mean it's a 1000 miles better than gaur plain, unova, dream land. And even Brinstar maybe.
And yoshi island as a starter is insane, the ceiling is crazy low with a platform which TILTS, allowing some characters to do really silly kills. Prism tower on the opposite is the best transforming stage.

I love Paper Mario, don't get me wrong it's probably in my top three stages in the game, excluding it is more of a political choice than a practical one. I'm more for pushing Rainbow Road and Unova at this point. Higher chance of success.

UPDATE: Should Dream Land be legal and should I make a poll for the discussion?
(My default vote is yes)

I don't think Dream Land should be legal not because of the scrolling but because of the many caves of life it has. It scrolls too slowly to be an issue but the areas it stops at are poor competitively in my opinion.

I like it. If you ask me we could give Omegas own spot. I don't mean like every Omega but the ones that have long walls (or ledges or what ever they are) like in Wily Castle Omega. You know... Like WJ Omegas. At least there would not be hazards. But if I had to choose from Unova, Tomo, Spirit, JJ, Torti and Mute... I would choose maybe Unova or JJ. I really like Unova tbh. Only bad thing about that stage is Reshi and its flame. JJ is nice stage too, but as I have said before, the water sucks. If it didn't have water, it would be legal in 1 sec. But that is my opinion.

Ofc we could start striking from everystage, but some people think that is a stupid idea (I personally support full stage striking).

Yeah JJ has a great layout but effectively a super high lower blast zone. Unova is my preferential pick though. The only reason I mix Omegas together with FD is because if they were in the same list an opponent would need to strike them twice. As they are effectively the same stage. Characters that love Omegas love FD and characters that Hate Omegas hate FD. The main layout is so similar that its more favourable to put them together. The player can choose whatever Omega he wants. They play no differently except for Wall Jumps and Pac-Man tricks.

 

[Jaguar360]

How many stages would be ideal for the 3DS Version do you guys think.

I feel 9 is a safe pick. It's the optimal number for FLSS which is theoretically optimal for neutral stage picking throughout all three/five games and for all match ups in the game.

-
Battlefield
Final Destination/Omegas
Arena Ferox
Prism Tower
Yoshi's Island
-
Reset Bomb Forest
Rainbow Road
Brinstar
-
9th...
|Unova Pokemon League/Tomadachi Life/Spirit Tracks/Jungle Japes/Tortimer Island/Mute City|

Rainbow Road and Prisim Tower offer a nice contrast in transformations. While Rainbow Road's hazards are telegraphed based on location or from the alarm or just seeing them.

Reset Bomb Forest has breakable caves of life, and an unobtrusive hazard that at most stops spikes and at least does nothing to intrude.

Brinstar offers an odd changeable layout that can be abused to take advantage of poor recoveries as well as harm those who like the mobility of platforms. The Acid is shown well in advance and at most forces conflict.

The stages listed under 9th have some sort if volatile property to them that can theoretically make them inappropriate for competitive play.

Any input?

I actually love Rainbow Road a lot. I didn't think people would be very open to it, so it didn't include it. I think the hazards are pretty telegraphed, but there are definitely a lot of them unfortunately. Still, the stage layouts and transformations are very interesting and fun and I would love to see ti legal.

Need to play Reset Bomb Forest more tbh. Can't say anything on it yet.

 

[NegaNixx]

Rainbow Road to me is easily tied for 6th best competitive stage in the game along side Reset Bomb Forest. I don't think there are a lot of hazards more like they come in hoards. The most lethal one is the track itself, but that's generally only an issue if you've already gotten gimped.

The Cars can be shielded and avoided pretty easily I think every transformation has a safe zone except for the moon one.

I'll let you form your own opinion on Reset Bomb Forest. But it does offer a unique stage layout never seen before. With minimal intrusion as well. Which is why I like it.

 

[Routa]

I personaly dislike karts as a hazard. There isn't really a way to use it for your advantage like the lava in Brinstar (for example F-throw as Ike when lava rises and follow up with Fair). Also the Karts come kinda too fast if you ask me. I rarely get chanse to shield them 'cause there are other things I have to worry about (for example my opponent).

 

[NegaNixx]

I personaly dislike karts as a hazard. There isn't really a way to use it for your advantage like the lava in Brinstar (for example F-throw as Ike when lava rises and follow up with Fair). Also the Karts come kinda too fast if you ask me. I rarely get chanse to shield them 'cause there are other things I have to worry about (for example my opponent).

Earlier today I was actually able to abuse the Karts as Marth by U-Throwing Bowser Jr. into them at 80% killing off the top. I did it purposely. But yeah the stage would be better off without them. I'd be willing to battle you once I get home from this trip (Sunday Night). Do some stage testing.

 

[Infinite901]

At the very least Rainbow Road and Reset Bomb are pretty much definites for doubles play, as 4-person gets rid of almost any questionable stuff.