Meta 2015 Community Tier List Voting

[EddyBearr]

Kirby > Ness > Pichu > Bowser

 

[Llumys]

One last revision of my list:

Your ordering seems fine, but I think it's important to separate tiers properly. Captain Falcon is not in the same league as Fox, nor is Mario in the same league as Pikachu, and calling Mr. Game & Watch a B-tier character is silly.

Example tiers:

S: best
Fox, Falco, Marth, Sheik

A: viable (upper)
Peach, Jigglypuff, Captain Falcon, Ice Climbers

B: viable (lower)
Pikachu, Samus, Yoshi, Luigi

C: mediocre
Dr. Mario, Ganondorf, Mario, Young Link

D: bad
Link, Donkey Kong, Mr. Game & Watch, Mewtwo

F: unusable
Pichu, Zelda, Ness, Bowser, Roy, Kirby

 

[MurphyPrime]

I'm hesitant to put Bowser below Kirby, only because DJ seems to make it work. To me, the bottom 4 are Bowser>Kirby>Pichu>Ness.

 

[EddyBearr]

That's definitely a reasonable view. However, apart from The Moon, any time I've seen DJ Nintendo beat someone with Bowser, it's been because they had no clue whatsoever what to do. When I look at Bowser's frame data and see that he takes almost long enough to react to just to become airborne, alongside horrendous mobility and very laggy altogether, it seems to me that Bowser is almost deserving of his own tier of horrible.

 

[Plunder]

Using DJN's sets is kind of a joke (especially against the Moon)....DJ is excellent with Bowser and proves the character has worth, but he doesn't play him against all the tournament characters. How about against any Peaches? ICs? Falcons? Samus? Luigi? etc.... There's a reason you don't see DJN bust his Bowser out against most characters, he's got a VERY VERY bad MU spread. Bowser can only really do mediocre against FFs that have to approach closely, PLUS he is really bad on FD.

Kirby's stage and MU spread is not nearly as bad, it's still terrible but it's more average across MUs that Bowser can't possibly ever win.

 

[CuRsE]

I'm open to suggestions here. Please correct me if I'm wrong somewhere, but please give a reason.

S:








A:







B+:



B:




C-:

F:



Please rate how I did and correct me if needed.
11/16/15, 8:35 PM EST edit: > and >

 

[MurphyPrime]

Why is Ganon over Luigi, and why is Jiggly Puff lower than Falcon?

 

[pichuplayer]

I'm open to suggestions here. Please correct me if I'm wrong somewhere, but please give a reason.

S:








A:







B+:



B:




C-:

F:



Please rate how I did and correct me if needed.

7 is what i rate it DK is better than Roy Yoshi is better than Mario Luigi is better than Ganon puff is better than Ic's and Falcon finally Doc shouldn't be 9th 11th or 12th is more like it

 

[CuRsE]

Why is Ganon over Luigi, and why is Jiggly Puff lower than Falcon?

Ganon over Luigi was a mistake, my bad. As for Falcon and Jiggly, Falcon's meta game and overall arsenal TO ME, based on what IVE seen from these characters and by looking at their arsenal, is better than Puff's, but not at ALL by far.

7 is what i rate it DK is better than Roy Yoshi is better than Mario Luigi is better than Ganon puff is better than Ic's and Falcon finally Doc shouldn't be 9th 11th or 12th is more like it

Another mistake, Jiggly is higher than IC, my bad. Why is DK better than Roy exactly? Doc has an extremely good arsenal and great kill setups. The Melee characters are not extremely far apart from skill, unless comparing an S to an F tier. So when looking at this tier list, just imagine a numbers system, and them being very close to each other.

 

[Dire Creeper]

I'm open to suggestions here. Please correct me if I'm wrong somewhere, but please give a reason.

S:








A:







B+:



B:




C-:

F:



Please rate how I did and correct me if needed.

Yoshi and Luigi should be above Ganon, Doc should at least be below Pikachu, and DK and Pichu w/o a doubt should be above Roy.

 

[pichuplayer]

Ganon over Luigi was a mistake, my bad. As for Falcon and Jiggly, Falcon's meta game and overall arsenal TO ME, based on what IVE seen from these characters and by looking at their arsenal, is better than Puff's, but not at ALL by far.


Another mistake, Jiggly is higher than IC, my bad. Why is DK better than Roy exactly? Doc has an extremely good arsenal and great kill setups. The Melee characters are not extremely far apart from skill, unless comparing an S to an F tier. So when looking at this tier list, just imagine a numbers system, and them being very close to each other.

I can agree with most of what you said but DK and maybe Pichu are better than Roy because the have more options and have some advantages over higher tiers

 

[MurphyPrime]

As much fun as Roy is... he is terrible. He only manages to do well against fast fallers (and by well I mean isn't an auto lose). The only reason I think he isn't last is cause he can handle the spacies a bit better than some other low tiers. In all honesty he probably is the worst character in the game. But my love for Roy prevents me from putting him last.

 

[Delta Chae]

Here's my take:
S: Could win a major
1:
2:
3:
4:
A+: Could win a regional, in the right hands could win a major.
5:
6:
7:
8:
A: Might win a regional, could place top 8 in a major in the right hands.
9:
10:
11:
12:
13:
B: Might place top 32 in a regional, could make it out of pools in a major with difficulty.
14:
15:
16:
17:
F: Pools fodder, these characters will not be ranked numerically because I feel that past this point any difference in numerical ranking is purely subjective and nearly impossible to accurately pin down.

 

[Modesty]

I'm open to suggestions here. Please correct me if I'm wrong somewhere, but please give a reason.

S:








A:







B+:



B:




C-:

F:



Please rate how I did and correct me if needed.
11/16/15, 8:35 PM EST edit: > and >

I think you're gonna have a tough time justifying Falcon over Jiggs and Icies. I also don't like Doc so high, he just doesn't get any meaningful results in comparison with Pikachu Luigi and Samus. I think Luigi is the strongest Mario brother in the current meta game.

 

[FooltheFlames]

Yoshi is that high because not only has aMSa placed very impressively with him, but he pretty much wrote the book on how to play as Yoshi. And that book isn't private to himself - he published it by getting such amazing results to be seen on Youtube. Plus it's not like no one else can read that book, take notes and gain the skill level of aMSa. If he can do it, anyone can.

Roy is placed this low because he's such an abysmal character. Bad hitboxes, bad recovery, the worst aerials in the game and only having a couple KO moves (which makes him more predictable about what he'll do to opponents at high %) are only a few prime examples of his flaws. I could go on forever, but I should end with the fact that most of his aerials don't kill till around 300-350%.

So I was right about Amsa being the reason. ^^
True what you say about the book, and how it isnt private, anyone can study Amsa matches and imitate his play style- BUT not just anyone can be Amsa. Just like I cant be you or you can be me, or how neither of us can be M2K; only Amsa can do what Amsa does, he's a wonderful anomaly among Melee players.

Too true about Roy. Worst. Aerials. EVER. I just cant play as him... I've been playing Melee for years, and I still cant play as the boy or the captain or the ice chumps- everyone else I'm at least passable with.

FooltheFlames I strongly disagree with Link and Young Link having the tools to win. They have awful defense, okay recovery, okay combos and bad killing. Yoshi has a respect-commanding recovery, great combos, great defense, and good killing. Yoshi was in this boat for a long time where people knew he had this amazing tech, but people assumed it was too hard to implement (few-frame links, reaction time, etc.). Link and Young Link aren't exactly in the same boat. They're definitely not significantly far from DK.

Fair enough. But you do realize everything you're saying about the Links, others have said the same exact things about Yoshi at some point? The Links just need their own Amsa to come and rescue them out of the top of Low Tier to the bottom of Middle Tier where they belong.
OR! Better yet... we should have a "Borderline Tier" in between Low and Mid just for the two Links! I think that's where they truly belong; but I'm also fine with where they are placed, it's good for them and me cuz many people underestimate Link players... hee hee hee~ >:D

 

[CuRsE]

Eh, I don't know about Roy, tbh. He's always been a questionable character to me. His aerials may not be great, but Roy has alot of potential people just don't know how to use. Aside from that, Doc is better than Luigi, due to the fact Luigi's kill setups often revolve around luck of the draw, and perfect precision and timing. Doc has amazing kill setups on his own, and can trip people up with a simple up-air, up-air, weak up-air and side or up-smash, and can end people's hopes of recovery with his cape.

 

[jigglesthepuff]

I think you're gonna have a tough time justifying Falcon over Jiggs and Icies. I also don't like Doc so high, he just doesn't get any meaningful results in comparison with Pikachu Luigi and Samus. I think Luigi is the strongest Mario brother in the current meta game.

DK under Roy? Why?

 

[Comet7]

has alot of potential people just don't know how to use.

it's hard to think of reasoning worse than this

 

[Spak]

As much fun as Roy is... he is terrible. He only manages to do well against fast fallers (and by well I mean isn't an auto lose). The only reason I think he isn't last is cause he can handle the spacies a bit better than some other low tiers. In all honesty he probably is the worst character in the game. But my love for Roy prevents me from putting him last.

Roy's bad, but he certainly isn't the worst character in the game. He has top-tier movement, F-Smash kills fairly early, his D-Tilt is really good, falling Uair combos decently, he's good against FFs, and has a OHKO on Jiggs on half of the legal stages. Granted, his combo game is horrible, wet noodle is the most depressing thing in the world, and he puts people in so little hitstun that he can get punished for landing half of his aerials, but his movement brings him up to a low tier status (mid-low if you're being kind) from garbage tier. I probably would put him 20-ish.

 

[Plunder]

Yea Roy has just enough top tier DNA to keep him in the upper low tier range.

Also almost ANY light character Roy has early up-ward kill potential on. On Yoshi's, and the PS transformations he actually has some early combo set ups into reverse blazer on Peach, Marth, Luigi, Zelda, G&W, Kirby (and Jiggs/Pichu or course). I don't see too many high level Roy's try this stuff which leads me to believe that they just don't practice it, know about them, or bother developing it. D-tilt > Reverse Blare can be very easy to land, if they don't DI and they are a light character it can mean a VERY early stock. Off higher platforms from tech chases it can be a reliable way to gain a stock in a way they don't see coming usually.

 

[CuRsE]

Roy is very underrated in most tier lists, imo, it's not like I'm calling him top tier. His speed and his agillity can be used for very agressive and defensive playstyles, some of his moves kill fairly early, his biggest weakness is his aerials, as they are laggy af and do almost nothing. The rest of Roy's moves show great possibilities of spacing and quick kills. Though, Roy's current metagame does NOT support that at all.

 

[Modesty]

DK under Roy? Why?

I based most of my low tier rankings based on how they can cheese out high tiers, since they are mostly irrelevant. I think DK pound for pound is an overall better character, but he is super easy to combo, and overall I feel there is less he can do against top tiers. Roy is a pretty bad character, but has a better tools to be a high tier killer than DK.

 

[Plunder]

I based most of my low tier rankings based on how they can cheese out high tiers, since they are mostly irrelevant. I think DK pound for pound is an overall better character, but he is super easy to combo, and overall I feel there is less he can do against top tiers. Roy is a pretty bad character, but has a better tools to be a high tier killer than DK.

Nah DK above Roy is one of those unquestionable truths.

DK has a super high fast first jump and an amazing cargo throw. It allows him to Up throw > Up Air floaties like Marth, Peach, and even Samus into KO percents. Roy doesn't have anything as reliable on non-FFers that isn't stage dependent.

 

[CuRsE]

I dont know Plunder , Roy has several good kill setups that arent stage dependent. His down tilt is a quick and easy way to get things done. His laggy aerials can trip people up, as not many are used to his aerial game. I feel Roy has much better kill setups, agility and top tier DNA to be below DK.

 

[Sleepy Driz]

I will say that I believe DK is better than Roy due to his reliable cargo throw set ups that can reliably convert a kill off a grab, but I just wanted to point out that Roy's dash dance is really good and his down tilt is amazing. His problem is just that his wet noodle aerials mean you can't really do anything good after a grab/dtilt.

 

[CuRsE]

I will say that I believe DK is better than Roy due to his reliable cargo throw set ups that can reliably convert a kill off a grab, but I just wanted to point out that Roy's dash dance is really good and his down tilt is amazing. His problem is just that his wet noodle aerials mean you can't really do anything good after a grab/dtilt.

Well, that "wet noodle" is anything but bad. His ability to keep them at a close range with it having littile knockback allows quick and extended combos, while his side allows him to float longer, which can let him land a footstool or spike.

 

[Plunder]

Sorry CuRsE , but no. Maybe if you play only FFer CPUs on FD Roy might seem better or barely even with DK.

DK above Roy is not something to even question really. DK can convert and kill characters that Roy can only get a hit or 2 on at a time and has serious trouble killing.

Well, that "wet noodle" is anything but bad. His ability to keep them at a close range with it having littile knockback allows quick and extended combos, while his side allows him to float longer, which can let him land a footstool or spike.

omg....footstool.....spike. Now it makes sense, you're talking about the wrong game. Have you even played Melee?

 

[CuRsE]

Spikes and footstools arent hard in Melee....

 

[CuRsE]

I saw my mistake, im rushing these posts. Footstools arent in Melee. Meteorsmashing is though. Sorry for my stupidity from rushing these posts.

 

[Dolla Pills]

It is almost impossible to send someone to the bottom blastzone with Roy. I believe his only moves that send at downward trajectories are down air (very hard to get the right hit box, extremely easy to meteor cancel, and due to Roy's fall speed and the move's lag if you use it offstage you are probably dead) and one hitbox of one of the double edged blade (which isn't very practical either).

 

[Comet7]

there's a weird hitbox of roy's up smash that's a spike, but it's extremely unconventional (not even close to working in tournament because of how bad it is...).

roy doesn't have the ability to juggle floaties, and his "ko setups" don't exist. either late up air or fair only confirm a f smash at 90%+, according to stuff in the 2013 thread. ...there isn't anything else other than edgeguarding, which everybody else in the game can do, and probably better than roy anyway (i don't know too much about roy, but his frame data is rather mediocre...).

 

[Delta Chae]

Yea Roy has just enough top tier DNA to keep him in the upper low tier range.

Also almost ANY light character Roy has early up-ward kill potential on. On Yoshi's, and the PS transformations he actually has some early combo set ups into reverse blazer on Peach, Marth, Luigi, Zelda, G&W, Kirby (and Jiggs/Pichu or course). I don't see too many high level Roy's try this stuff which leads me to believe that they just don't practice it, know about them, or bother developing it. D-tilt > Reverse Blare can be very easy to land, if they don't DI and they are a light character it can mean a VERY early stock. Off higher platforms from tech chases it can be a reliable way to gain a stock in a way they don't see coming usually.

I've tested this myself, at least on Yoshi's and this would only be relevant on PS if you were on the rock or grass transformations and given people's tendency to avoid the spots where this would be relevant, reverse blazer is not that useful.

First of all, even set up from a down tilt off the top platform and with no DI, reverse blazer will not kill Peach, Marth, or Luigi. Secondly, reverse blazer on any opponent that is not holding perfectly still is extremely difficult to land. Reverse blazer will still kill Puff, G&W, and Pichu in one hit but the only one of these characters that matters is Puff and even then it's only good for rest punishes and does not compensate for Roy's other shortcomings.

 

[Spak]

there's a weird hitbox of roy's up smash that's a spike, but it's extremely unconventional (not even close to working in tournament because of how bad it is...).

roy doesn't have the ability to juggle floaties, and his "ko setups" don't exist. either late up air or fair only confirm a f smash at 90%+, according to stuff in the 2013 thread. ...there isn't anything else other than edgeguarding, which everybody else in the game can do, and probably better than roy anyway (i don't know too much about roy, but his frame data is rather mediocre...).

Yeah, there's the Fire Spike which has so much endlag that you have to do it from a platform to recover, tends to slow down FFers because the KB is so bad, and is very easy to meteor cancel, the weird hitbox on his U-Smash which spikes, but basically requires the opponent to SDI off-stage or get tippered by it on the very top-right of his completely vertical sword, and the third up-hit of DED's sweetspot which has good KB and meteors, but it can still be meteor cancelled it's one of the hardest meteors to land in the game and has no practical use.

I have Roy as a secondary and while he's fun to play against people that aren't high tier (it's still fun to wreck Spacies who don't know the MU, though), I would never dream of calling him a viable character. It is good to note that Roy's counter is a guaranteed kill on Spacies if they hit you with their Up-B's, though; it's pretty much his only character-specific edgeguarding tactic in the game.

Also, never play Roy v. Peach. Roy is so dependent on CC that if he has to go up against a Peach, he's royally screwed from Peach's D-Smash. I've won the MU before, but it was only because the peach was fairly bad.

 

[Mickey Major]

Fox
Falco
Marth
Sheik

Peach
Jigglypuff
Captain Falcon
Ice Climbers

Pikachu
Yoshi
Samus

Luigi
Dr Mario
Mario
Ganondorf

Young Link
Link
Donkey Kong

Pichu
Game and Watch
Roy
Mewtwo
Ness
Kirby
Bowser
Zelda

 

[pichuplayer]

Fox
Falco
Marth
Sheik

Peach
Jigglypuff
Captain Falcon
Ice Climbers

Pikachu
Yoshi
Samus

Luigi
Dr Mario
Mario
Ganondorf

Young Link
Link
Donkey Kong

Pichu
Game and Watch
Roy
Mewtwo
Ness
Kirby
Bowser
Zelda

Mario higher than Ganon wut?

 

[Plunder]

This site sometimes...

I've tested this myself, at least on Yoshi's and this would only be relevant on PS if you were on the rock or grass transformations and given people's tendency to avoid the spots where this would be relevant, reverse blazer is not that useful.

First of all, even set up from a down tilt off the top platform and with no DI, reverse blazer will not kill Peach, Marth, or Luigi. Secondly, reverse blazer on any opponent that is not holding perfectly still is extremely difficult to land. Reverse blazer will still kill Puff, G&W, and Pichu in one hit but the only one of these characters that matters is Puff and even then it's only good for rest punishes and does not compensate for Roy's other shortcomings.

Jun1 I'd suggest actually trying what I said before just throwing out BS like the rest of the kids on here seem to like to do.

Dtilt > Reverse Blazer does work on Peach on YS and the PS transformations as I said. So pop in your copy of Melee (if you've got one) and actually try it out. On Peach for instance it works starting from 0% from the SIDE AND TOP Yoshi's Island platforms and 2/3 transformations of PS. D-tilt is not that tough to land (your bias and ignorance is showing again) up throw tech chase is possible on both platforms, they don't have to be standing still. It's not going to be successful 100% in tournament but it is a very real option when you see an opening on lighter characters. And I'm not saying it elevates his tier status at all, that is your assumption.

So at the risk of making yourself look more ignorant I'd suggest not responding in the future to things you don't know about.

 

[Spak]

On Peach for instance it works starting from 0% from the SIDE AND TOP Yoshi's Island platforms and 2/3 transformations of PS.

% doesn't really matter because the first hit has a set KB.

 

[gmBottles]

ITT: Getting defensive as eff over low tiers

 

[Plunder]

% doesn't really matter because the first hit has a set KB.

Actually Spak, yes it does matter. You have to get enough height from the Dtilt first to get them to a point where they can be reversed blazered high enough. But also not too high so that you can reach them to combo it, so percent does matter. At 0% it works on Peach, for Samus you need a little higher percent for it to kill off top and connect.

ITT: Getting defensive as eff over low tiers

I don't really care what people think of low tiers. But when noobs try and correct something that's been tested and already proven (there is even video of it), that's the problem. Kid must have a version of Melee that doesn't exists....

 

[Spak]

Actually Spak, yes it does matter.You have to get enough height from the Dtilt first to get them to a point where they can be reversed blazered high enough. But also not too high so that you can reach them to combo it, so percent does matter. At 0% it works on Peach, for Samus you need a little higher percent for it to kill off top.

Oh, forgot you were specifying the D-Tilt setup. My B.