Meta 2015 Community Tier List Voting

[M3ll0w]

Is this what characters we played? Didn't leffens fox win?

 

[GoldenMasterSword]

lol people putting Falcon in top 4.
He's too inconsistent now to be put above his current placing. I'd argue ICs over him, as well as Pikachu if it wasn't so uncommon and literally being carried by Axe.

 

[the muted smasher]

Ics are trash they just happen to have a large pool of skilled players.

Ics Lose to most mid, high top tiers. They only beat sheik and puff by a little bit.

I mean zedla, game and watch, gannon, doc, luigi all can give ics a really hard time which is nuts seeing how hard they get trashed by peach falcon and fox

 

[GoldenMasterSword]

Those characters only fill in very specific niches and only Luigi and Ganondorf have any significant players that can make top 96 at EVO.
ICs mains tend to be better than Luigi and Ganondorf mains. I'm sorry.

 

[the muted smasher]

But besides sheik, puff, and pika who viable do ics do remotely decent against? They lose only a little to falco I guess.

Gannon is even with marth and beats ics and luigi and samus. Honestly You'd have to be high to think falcon is worse than ics cause he has 3 bad match-ups that aren't even near what ics have to deal with vs peach

Ics have more flaws and opening than anyone in the game, it's just they have a higher skill pool of players placing

 

[vexoskeleton]

But besides sheik, puff, and pika who viable do ics do remotely decent against? They lose only a little to falco I guess.

Gannon is even with marth and beats ics and luigi and samus. Honestly You'd have to be high to think falcon is worse than ics cause he has 3 bad match-ups that aren't even near what ics have to deal with vs peach

Ics have more flaws and opening than anyone in the game, it's just they have a higher skill pool of players placing

About a year ago this is what nintendude said about icies top tier match ups
https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/1wzroz/melee_matchups_s_a_tier_as_according_to/cf6zw4v

Fox: -2
Falco: 0
Sheik: +1
Marth: 0
Jigglypuff: 0 or +1
Peach: -2 or -3
Falcon: 0 or -1

Falcon is worse not because of how match ups should be but because falcon can die much earlier because of his bad recovery and icies have wobbling which also for comebacks significantly easier than falcon and many times their punishes are just as harsh as a falcon's, icies also have some crazy desync mixups that are very hard to react to that allow them to get in.

 

[EddyBearr]

To add on top the Nintendude matchups, Fly Amanita has said that he thinks IC's are probably even at worst with Luigi/Doc/Mario and that Ganon countering Ice Climber is "a myth". These quotes are from reddit:

"Zelda, Mewtwo, and all other garbage characters for that matter, are not very good against ICs."
"IC's probably win [against Young Link]"
"[Ganon countering Ice Climbers] is a myth"
"It's a weird matchup, but I'm pretty sure IC"s win [60-40 against Dr. Mario]
"It's around [60-40 IC's favor against Luigi] if played well by both sides."

www.reddit.com/user/DC_Phalloides

Personally, I think IC's have 5 losing matchups: Fox, Marth, Peach, Falcon, Samus. Of those, I think only Peach and maybe Samus are worse than what Falcon has against Fox/Falco/Sheik. IC's beat Sheik, beat Puff, go even with Falco, and beat everything except Samus below the top 8.

 

[M3ll0w]

I don't think IC's are over him he's too fast and can separate them easily

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Guys, spread the word. Ask your favorite player to vote! It only takes a few minutes and it would help the entire community!

 

[Spaghetti Sammy]

Shroomed better get in here and say Doc is Top 5 or I'm gunna John Cena suplex someone over the top turnbuckle.

 

[pichuplayer]

Shroomed better get in here and say Doc is Top 5 or I'm gunna John Cena suplex someone over the top turnbuckle.

What?

 

[GoldenMasterSword]

I don't think IC's are over him he's too fast and can separate them easily

I don't think Marth is over Yoshi, he's really heavy and armors through everything easily

 

[Spaghetti Sammy]

What?

Shroomed better get in here and say Doc is Top 5 or I'm gunna John Cena suplex someone over the top turnbuckle.

 

[The Soap]

Shroomed better get in here and say Doc is Top 5 or I'm gunna John Cena suplex someone over the top turnbuckle.

Do you really think he would have switched to Sheik if he thought Doc was top 5?

 

[MegaMagikarp]

Hopefully the pros all partake in the tier list because reading a lot of these comments not only is the bias real but the stupidity is too.

 

[Spaghetti Sammy]

Do you really think he would have switched to Sheik if he thought Doc was top 5?

Yes
He switched to Shiek so people would take him seriously
I would know
My Dad works for Shroomedtendo

 

[vexoskeleton]

Hopefully the pros all partake in the tier list because reading a lot of these comments not only is the bias real but the stupidity is too.

it's impossible to not have bias when making a tier list as a tier list is based on your own personal experiences and believes in how the characters perform against the rest of the roster in a competitive environment.

 

[Modesty]

UPDATED:

S Tier:
1. Fox
2. Falco
3.Marth
4. Sheik
5.Peach
6.Jigglypuff
7. Ice Climbers

A tier:
8. Captain Falcon
9. Samus
10. Pikachu
11. Luigi
12. Yoshi
13. Dr. Mario
14. Mario​

B tier:
15. Ganondorf
16. Young Link
17. Link
18. DK​

C tier:
19. Roy
20. Game & Watch
21. Zelda
22. Mewtwo
23. Ness
24. Pichu
25. Kirby
26. Bowser


Feel free to ask questions if you have them.​

 

[pichuplayer]

S Tier:
1. Fox
2. Falco
3.Marth
4. Sheik
5.Peach
6.Jigglypuff

A tier:
7. Ice Climbers
8. Captain Falcon
9. Samus
10. Luigi
11. Yoshi
12. Dr. Mario
13. Mario
14. Pikachu​

B tier:
15. Ganondorf
16. Young Link
17. Link
18. Roy
19. DK​

C tier:
20. Ness
21. Zelda
22. Mewtwo
23. Game & Watch
24. Pichu
25. Kirby
26. Bowser


Feel free to ask questions if you have them.​

one complaint pika below Mario?! i mean Doc i can understand but Mario?!

 

[Lopopka]

I did
Fox"Come On"
Falco -possibly better than fox depending on stage!
PuffHmm... some will see why I put puff here.
Sheik |
Marth|
Peach|
IC Wobble!
CF|
Doc|
PikaV
Samus
ganon
Luigi
YL
Link
mario
Yoshi
Roy
DK
Zelda
G and W
M2
Kirby
Ness
Pichu
Boswer

 

[pichuplayer]

I did
Fox"Come On"
Falco -possibly better than fox depending on stage!
PuffHmm... some will see why I put puff here.
Sheik |
Marth|
Peach|
IC Wobble!
CF|
Doc|
PikaV
Samus
ganon
Luigi
YL
Link
mario
roy
Yoshi
DK
Zelda
G and W
M2
Kirby
Ness
Pichu
Boswer

one thing wrong with this why is Yoshi so low?!

 

[NIFOFD]

one thing wrong with this why is Yoshi so low?!

Agreed. Yoshi should never be below Roy. Also Roy is way too high.

 

[Lopopka]

Agreed. Yoshi should never be below Roy. Also Roy is way too high.

Actually I just switched it SO yoshi is higher than him due to yoshi play style But once again roy's true potential hasn't been unlocked so give it time x)

 

[pichuplayer]

Agreed. Yoshi should never be below Roy. Also Roy is way too high.

yeah yoshi should be at least below Luigi or Ganon at least!

 

[Lopopka]

one thing wrong with this why is Yoshi so low?!

I just switched them x)

 

[NIFOFD]

Actually I just switched it SO yoshi is higher than him due to yoshi play style But once again roy's true potential hasn't been unlocked so give it time x)

Roy is trash. Please do not think he is good. I will elaborate more when not on my phone if needed.

 

[pichuplayer]

Actually I just switched it SO yoshi is higher than him due to yoshi play style But once again roy's true potential hasn't been unlocked so give it time x)

I just switched them x)

1.look at my last post 2. two i said that before you did that 3. we are talking about now!

 

[Spaghetti Sammy]

I did
Kirby
Kirby
Kirby
KIRBY

Nice meme

 

[Modesty]

one complaint pika below Mario?! i mean Doc i can understand but Mario?!

I think Pikachu gets overrated because Axe is unreal, and Mario has better match ups against the top tiers. I think this part of the tier list is super close though and could see pika as high as 11-12.

 

[pichuplayer]

I think Pikachu gets overrated because Axe is unreal, and Mario has better match ups against the top tiers. I think this part of the tier list is super close though and could see pika as high as 11-12.

most likely if someone used pika the same way that axe does the same results would come through mario is not good at all but is still a solid character

 

[That1Roy]

ness is s tier

 

[Plunder]

I think Pikachu gets overrated because Axe is unreal, and Mario has better match ups against the top tiers. I think this part of the tier list is super close though and could see pika as high as 11-12.

Now way d00der, Pikachu should never EVER be below Mario. That would be like putting Falco above Fox.

 

[Modesty]

most likely if someone used pika the same way that axe does the same results would come through mario is not good at all but is still a solid character

I think Mario is a somewhat underdeveloped character, and that if someone played him as well as axe plays pikachu, that person would be better off. I believe in Mario potential lol.

Now way d00der, Pikachu should never EVER be below Mario. That would be like putting Falco above Fox.

Am I being memed?

ness is s tier

Ness is Ness tier

 

[Brandonr15]

I did
Fox"Come On"
Falco -possibly better than fox depending on stage!
PuffHmm... some will see why I put puff here.
Sheik |
Marth|
Peach|
IC Wobble!
CF|
Doc|
PikaV
Samus
ganon
Luigi
YL
Link
mario
Yoshi
Roy
DK
Zelda
G and W
M2
Kirby
Ness
Pichu
Boswer

Lol I was totally gonna question you about Kirby, but then I saw the joke.

Also Ganon is very overrated. He does have very great moves, and amazing punishes, but he has many flaws like slow ground game, susceptibility to combos and chain throws, being easily bogged down by fast attacks and projectiles, and being arguably the most vulnerable character to edge guarding.

He is played very well in tournaments, but he still has many flaws.

Also I don't think Mario should be under Link, or YLink.

These are just some questions, and opinions

 

[Plunder]

Lol I was totally gonna question you about Kirby, but then I saw the joke.

Also Ganon is very overrated. He does have very great moves, and amazing punishes, but he has many flaws like slow ground game, susceptibility to combos and chain throws, being easily bogged down by fast attacks and projectiles, and being arguably the most vulnerable character to edge guarding.

He is played very well in tournaments, but he still has many flaws.

Also I don't think Mario should be under Link, or YLink.

These are just some questions, and opinions

I have a very rudimentary Ganon, and yet it's still able to contend with almost all of the local top tier users (Fox, Falco, Falcon, Peach, Sheik). And they know the MU and they are very technical and intelligent players (most place well at regionals).

Ganon is slow but he controls a massive amount of space around him, has high percentage CC, the only really great ledge jump, fully invincible ledgestall, great tech rolls and roll, etc. Fox or Falco can combo him a ton, but then he gives em 4 hits and they are done. The same goes for Falcon, Sheik, Marth, Puff, ICs....on paper he seems to be terrible but I can tell you that I'd bet money that my crappy barely practiced Ganon can do work on anyone in here that thinks he's overrated. Also people forget this because most Ganons don't like to abuse it, but he has chain throws on almost every single top tier. So having a chain throw against him doesn't really matter since it goes both ways.

 

[Spaghetti Sammy]

Mario and Doc are pretty good.
There is

 

[Kider]

yoshi somehow making it in a melee tourney, wut?

 

[NIFOFD]

I have a very rudimentary Ganon, and yet it's still able to contend with almost all of the local top tier users (Fox, Falco, Falcon, Peach, Sheik). And they know the MU and they are very technical and intelligent players (most place well at regionals).

Ganon is slow but he controls a massive amount of space around him, has high percentage CC, the only really great ledge jump, fully invincible ledgestall, great tech rolls and roll, etc. Fox or Falco can combo him a ton, but then he gives em 4 hits and they are done. The same goes for Falcon, Sheik, Marth, Puff, ICs....on paper he seems to be terrible but I can tell you that I'd bet money that my crappy barely practiced Ganon can do work on anyone in here that thinks he's overrated. Also people forget this because most Ganons don't like to abuse it, but he has chain throws on almost every single top tier. So having a chain throw against him doesn't really matter since it goes both ways.

Having a chaingrab does matter even if it goes both ways, the ability of a character to actually get a grab is a huge factor in any matchup. Ganon might be able to follow up his throws well, but the reality of the situation is that he shouldn't be getting those grabs in the first place (assuming his opponent is actually good).

Also, spacie chaingrabs are not ignored by Ganon mains because they "don't like to abuse it" rather because they are incredibly difficult to execute consistently.

I do not want to sound rude, but "contending" with players who merely place well at regionals with a character that you do not frequently practice does not mean anything for the viability of the character in the current meta.

 

[Plunder]

Having a chaingrab does matter even if it goes both ways, the ability of a character to actually get a grab is a huge factor in any matchup. Ganon might be able to follow up his throws well, but the reality of the situation is that he shouldn't be getting those grabs in the first place (assuming his opponent is actually good).

Also, spacie chaingrabs are not ignored by Ganon mains because they "don't like to abuse it" rather because they are incredibly difficult to execute consistently.

I do not want to sound rude, but "contending" with players who merely place well at regionals with a character that you do not frequently practice does not mean anything for the viability of the character in the current meta.

You missed the whole point. I've played Ganon a total of maybe 100 hours (probably my least practiced character) and I'm still able to hold my own against some of the top local players and their top tiers who have invested years in their main. Ganon only needs one good read and then it's over after a few hits, compare that to how many inputs and commands a spacie has to chain to get ganon to KO percent (not a gimp). Also the Spacie and Sheik CG is not hard at all, have you even played Ganon before? And getting a grab isn't that difficult either - CC into grab is extremely common since Ganon has such a high weight, plus shield grabbing happens pretty often even at a high level against spacies .

Your last sentence is rubbish because I was just addressing those that say he's overrated, he's definitely not currently. I was not trying to elevate his "viability", so essentially your whole comment was misguided.

 

[GoldenMasterSword]

Top local players...
These are players that you're used to fighting.
Hard reads are easier to make. Hard reads are also very inconsistent and do not make a character amazing.
This falls under one of the reasons why I consider Captain Falcon below ICs, and Ganondorf below Mario (maybe even Young Link).