Meta 2015 Community Tier List Voting

[EddyBearr]

People can main Ganon. People can't really main Young Link.

But yeah, I do think Ganon-YL is about even. There's no official matchup -- the closest thing is that last time the YL boards went through it, we figured the matchup was "extremely even".

In head-to-head, I'd say YL does better on Puff and Peach, but Ganon does better on basically all the rest.. maybe the same on Falco, ICs or Falcon or something.

In my personal tier list, I have a "niche tier". Ganon is 15 and in that tier, and YL is 16 and in that tier (while Link is 17 outside of it). Young Link is only in Niche because he has a unique niche against Peach/Puff/IC's as imo a truly viable matchup-specific secondary.

 

[Nishifue]

aaaaaaaaaa

 

[-ACE-]

Ganon might have more representation than yl but it's not much at all. Kage and Eikelmann are the only ones pushing hard at nationals. But the sfl crew and a few other good Ganons around the nation are trying hard to push the metagame.

 

[Plunder]

Ganon might have more representation than yl but it's not much at all. Kage and Eikelmann are the only ones pushing hard at nationals. But the sfl crew and a few other good Ganons around the nation ate getting hard to push the metagame.

Whatever happened to Mr. Branondorf?

also.....dang one of the mods pranked me

 

[-ACE-]

Whatever happened to Mr. Branondorf?

also.....dang one of the mods pranked me

He's good but not even bizz is as dedicated toward pushing Ganon as hard as Eikelmann and kage are currently (maybe soon he'll get his drive back). Beating multiple good spacies/sheiks in a row is what has to be achieved but not many Ganons are really doing that lol

EDIT: BIZZ playing tonight www.twitch.tv/macdsmash HYPE

 

[Nishifue]

aaaaaaaaaa

 

[Spaghetti Sammy]

Ya I'm not gunna lie Ganons pretty unpopular right now. Still like has 5 times the representation than yl.

Meanwhile, Doc mains.

 

[Nishifue]

aaaaaaaaaa

 

[-ACE-]

Speaking of poorly represented characters.

**** 20XX lol. Like 50% of any non-spacie main's focus has to be on learning how to effectively kill fox/falco. Otherwise you don't place well.

I'm actually really surprised that styles like that of m2k's sheik, wizzy's falcon, etc. haven't become popular much sooner. There's no johns for lame play when you're a spacie main, it's just body or get bodied. People should be doing everything they possibly can to make those characters miserable when developing their neutral and punish game.

 

[pichuplayer]

Meanwhile, Doc mains.

Doc imo is still good, people just won't use him

 

[Nishifue]

aaaaaaaaaa

 

[-ACE-]

Such an east coast mentality lol, but for non spacies vs spacies that's really the only way to look at the MU if you wanna win.

Lmfao I hear you but I play Ganon, you won't have to worry about me covering ALL of your tech options lol

 

[Dire Creeper]

What's a doc main? lol.

SmashMac, OTG, Boss and Velocity.

 

[Sir Bubbles]

SmashMac, OTG, Boss and Velocity.

OTG changed mains to Luigi/Fox now. He dislikes playing Doc and thinks he sucks.

 

[Dire Creeper]

OTG changed mains to Luigi/Fox now. He dislikes playing Doc and thinks he sucks.

When did this happen?

 

[Nishifue]

aaaaaaaaaa

 

[Sir Bubbles]

When did this happen?

Back in June. He's not active anymore but if he were to go active again he would move on from Doc and into a better character.

 

[DeepDish]

I think Mario does good against:
- Samus wins

IMO Samus/Mario is even. Samus/Doc is winning for Doc just because he has much more reliable kill options. Whenever the next time I get to play a Samus is, I'll record it and plan on doing an in depth analysis for both Mario and Doc v Samus.

Few people know those matchups.

 

[Dire Creeper]

Samus/Doc is winning for Doc just because he has much more reliable kill options.

By that standard, would that mean Doc does better (at least slightly) than Mario in every other matchup?

 

[pichuplayer]

IMO Samus/Mario is even. Samus/Doc is winning for Doc just because he has much more reliable kill options. Whenever the next time I get to play a Samus is, I'll record it and plan on doing an in depth analysis for both Mario and Doc v Samus.

Few people know those matchups.

maybe because this macthups is so rare that few people know it there are barley any mains for these two characters (i think)

 

[Dire Creeper]

Speaking of poorly represented characters.

**** 20XX lol. Like 50% of any non-spacie main's focus has to be on learning how to effectively kill fox/falco. Otherwise you don't place well.

So true. Spacies are actually my favorite matchups.

 

[Nishifue]

aaaaaaaaaa

 

[Bad1]

S
A
B
C

I think Yoshi, Luigi, and (less likely, but possibly) Ness have some potential that is going untapped. Didn't put Sheik in S-teir because I don't see anyone using her to win but rather as an alt. More development and I think Sheik could easily rival fox but that's just a newbie's opinion.

Fox/Marth I see essentially the same rank. Not sure I understand why Falco does worse on average than fox but it is what it is. Would really love to see some Falcon players start taking wins though.

Samus tbh I could put in A but for now top of B is good for me.

 

[DMWN]

Man, Melee's roster is so small you can assign a letter of the alphabet to each character...!
Heheh...
Anyway...

S Tier:
Fox
Marth
Sheik
Falco
Ice Climbers
Jigglypuff
Peach
A Tier:
Captain Falcon
Pikachu
Luigi
B Tier:
Ganondorf
Samus
Young Link
Yoshi
C Tier:
Link
Dr. Mario
Mario
Zelda
D Tier:
Expansion Pak
Mr. Game & Watch
Ness
Mewtwo
F Tier:
Roy
Bowser
Pichu
Kirby


Call me biased, but Ness really isn't that bad, even with his abysmal range and poor neutral. His recovery is good if it's spaced from the ledge properly, his back aerial can be used out of a short hop to get some respectable damage and knockback, and a double jump-cancelled down aerial is great for setting up.
He's still pretty bad, though. Just not as bad as Roy.
Mewtwo is a fun one. I feel as though its aerial game is underestimated and can be worked with, similarly to Ness. Teleport is also underused and is great for recovery. Again, it's still bad, but it can be worked with when one puts their mind to it.

 

[-ACE-]

Any list doesn't have the highest tier as Fox Falco, Marth and Sheik (and only those 4 in any order) is wrong imo. That has not changed and never will. Some people really sleeping on sheik (accept for those going strictly off tourney wins - that I can see).

 

[Nishifue]

aaaaaaaaaa

 

[pichuplayer]

Man, Melee's roster is so small you can assign a letter of the alphabet to each character...!
Heheh...
Anyway...

S Tier:
Fox
Marth
Sheik
Falco
Ice Climbers
Jigglypuff
Peach
A Tier:
Captain Falcon
Pikachu
Luigi
B Tier:
Ganondorf
Samus
Young Link
Yoshi
C Tier:
Link
Dr. Mario
Mario
Zelda
D Tier:
Expansion Pak
Mr. Game & Watch
Ness
Mewtwo
F Tier:
Roy
Bowser
Pichu
Kirby


Call me biased, but Ness really isn't that bad, even with his abysmal range and poor neutral. His recovery is good if it's spaced from the ledge properly, his back aerial can be used out of a short hop to get some respectable damage and knockback, and a double jump-cancelled down aerial is great for setting up.
He's still pretty bad, though. Just not as bad as Roy.
Mewtwo is a fun one. I feel as though its aerial game is underestimated and can be worked with, similarly to Ness. Teleport is also underused and is great for recovery. Again, it's still bad, but it can be worked with when one puts their mind to it.

why is yoshi below Young link? also you missed DK unless expansion Pak is DK

 

[UpBforVictory]

Here goes nothing..

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=====

Is Luigi top 10 bias???

G&W added

 

[Dire Creeper]

Here goes nothing..

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Is Luigi top 10 bias???

Nah, he has the potential, but that won't mean much to others coming from me lol.

 

[Hat N' Clogs]

Here goes nothing..

SS

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I

You missed G&W fyi

 

[pichuplayer]

Here goes nothing..

SS

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=====

Is Luigi top 10 bias???

Luigi top ten sure Doc above yoshi no and you missed Game

 

[MudkipUniverse]

IMO Samus/Mario is even. Samus/Doc is winning for Doc just because he has much more reliable kill options. Whenever the next time I get to play a Samus is, I'll record it and plan on doing an in depth analysis for both Mario and Doc v Samus.

Few people know those matchups.

It actually could be even. Actually, it probably is even.

S
A
B
C

I think Yoshi, Luigi, and (less likely, but possibly) Ness have some potential that is going untapped. Didn't put Sheik in S-teir because I don't see anyone using her to win but rather as an alt. More development and I think Sheik could easily rival fox but that's just a newbie's opinion.

Fox/Marth I see essentially the same rank. Not sure I understand why Falco does worse on average than fox but it is what it is. Would really love to see some Falcon players start taking wins though.

Samus tbh I could put in A but for now top of B is good for me.

having ness at 15th is absurd. I guess he could get higher than his current tier list placing if ness players got better (far length wavedashes, dtilt resets, star jackets, more Ftilt). Simna is terrible representation for top level ness.

Luigi top ten sure Doc above yoshi no and you missed Game

I actually think that Doc is better than Yoshi.

oh and also you missed "& Watch"

 

[EddyBearr]

Luigi top ten sure Doc above yoshi no and you missed Game

Doc can easily be seen as better than Yoshi. Shroomed's results within the last 3 years that still involve Doc can be great evidence of that.

 

[UpBforVictory]

Luigi top ten sure Doc above yoshi no and you missed Game

i was actually gonna put yoshi under falcon but idk

 

[Spaghetti Sammy]

\
C Tier:
Link
Dr. Mario
Mario
Zelda

How much meth have you been injecting directly into your eyeballs.
There is no way, no possible way, that Doc, a character who consistantly got Top 8 (when Shroomed ran with him) is worse then Link or Yoshi.

People are not sleeping on Doc, they are going into a cryogenic deep sleep for hundreds of years on Doc

 

[MudkipUniverse]

doc is damn good and people saying shroomed maxed his potential are wrong.

 

[1MachGO]

How much meth have you been injecting directly into your eyeballs.
There is no way, no possible way, that Doc, a character who consistantly got Top 8 (when Shroomed ran with him) is worse then Link or Yoshi.

People are not sleeping on Doc, they are going into a cryogenic deep sleep for hundreds of years on Doc

Doc can easily be seen as better than Yoshi. Shroomed's results within the last 3 years that still involve Doc can be great evidence of that.

doc is damn good and people saying shroomed maxed his potential are wrong.

Not necessarily disagreeing with the notion that Doc has been underrated, but I would say evidence is being misconstrued here. How much weight can we give to Shroomed's results with Doc in 2013? The meta was different. Just look at Shroomed vs. Leffen in a year's time. Leffen started camping the **** out of him and while Leffen's MU inexperience and Shroomed's absurd clutch factor took him the distance, it still wasn't enough.

And perhaps that's the factor people are missing here. How important was MU inexperience in a mid tier's success? Shroomed's results in majors has always been cited as disproportionately better than the ones he had in locals. Obviously player to player experience is important, but you can't deny that MU inexperience saved Shroomed's *** in sets like the one he had vs. Dart or that his ability to outperform Norcal in majors has significantly stagnated since his switch to a more common character (CEO 2015 being the only exception; but he tanked at Evo so its whatever). aMSa isn't much different; its probably more likely he'll get top 8 at another major than win a Japanese tournament at this point.

Regardless, my main point is that you should look deeper than the results themselves. Consider the caliber of opponents Shroomed had to face as well as the significance of MU inexperience.

So is Doc underrated? Looking at some of these tier lists... I would say he is a bit. But he is a grab desperate character trying to compete with opponents that either utterly outrange him or out maneuver him (or sometimes both). At least Yoshi has an OP ledge stall and an aerial thats safe of block. Would love to see someone push Doc to his limit though.

 

[vexoskeleton]

doc is damn good and people saying shroomed maxed his potential are wrong.

shroomed constantly went to last stock against mango's fox and you think he didn't max his potential? Only TAS could then.

 

[pichuplayer]

i was actually gonna put yoshi under falcon but idk

Yoshi under falcon but above pika and samus that to high imo

doc is damn good and people saying shroomed maxed his potential are wrong.

Doc is good but even though shroomed quit Doc and went to shiek he might be the only Doc we'll see in a while or forever

It actually could be even. Actually, it probably is even.

having ness at 15th is absurd. I guess he could get higher than his current tier list placing if ness players got better (far length wavedashes, dtilt resets, star jackets, more Ftilt). Simna is terrible representation for top level ness.


I actually think that Doc is better than Yoshi.

oh and also you missed "& Watch"

i did miss & watch but that was intentional XD

 

[Pud'N]

yo when is this "official" list coming out?