2.6 Falcon

[DMG]

I can't put my finger on it all, but 2.6 Falcon feels smoother and closer to Melee than ever before. I'm sure you guys have noticed something with moonwalking and Nair... Falcon is close to glory I can feel it.

How do you think Falcon is holding up as a character, as the game marches forward and other characters are getting attention? Is he falling behind the Ivysaurs and Lucas' of the game?

 

[Nguz95]

I can't put my finger on it all, but 2.6 Falcon feels smoother and closer to Melee than ever before. I'm sure you guys have noticed something with moonwalking and Nair... Falcon is close to glory I can feel it.

How do you think Falcon is holding up as a character, as the game marches forward and other characters are getting attention? Is he falling behind the Ivysaurs and Lucas' of the game?

Ivy is good now? That's interesting...

Cfal is still a very dangerous and powerful character. All of his famous combos from Melee are intact, but this time around there are more mid and heavyweights for him to go to town on. I personally think that a lot of Cfal's success depends of the character he is playing against, and since Project M has a lot of characters that are really susceptible to stuff like Uair Uair Knee and Dthrow tech chases, Cfal is still safely in the mid to high tier category.

That being said, there are also a lot of characters that will really make life as a Cfal main hard. Old problems like Jigglypuff are still around, and newcomers like Metaknight and Pit are equipped with all the tools to really gimp Cfal hard. His recovery, while definitely buffed, is still subpar, and that makes some MUs really hard.

Going back to his strengths, Cfal's deadly speed is something that can be abused against the wealth of slower characters that PM offers. You ncan really run around people like Bowser, Ike, and Ivy, and since his throw game is so fantastic you can capitalize on your speed no matter the opponent. Additionally, a lot of the new stages really work in Cfal's favor. WarioWare, Smashville, and Halberd are all stages with small walls, which means more quick Knee kills. There are also more stages with walls, which definitely helps his recovery and his offense. However, places like Castlevania and Metal Cavern, which have huge walls, can really be a problem when you are trying to get a kill.

Overall I say Cfal has retained his mid-high tier status. He can compete with virtually any character by virtue of his really strong strengths, but the new environment of PM makes it so you really have to pay attention to your opponents and the stages they choose.

 

[MVP]

pm 2.6 falcon feels soooo much better. i can't wait for the changelist so we can see what they did to make him feel more meleefied. he's so close i can feel it.

 

[Juushichi]

His weight still means that he's extremely susceptible to a lot of characters on stage when they touch him, though, so Falcon players have to be a lot more vigilant (read: lame) in dealing with that.

Zelda has 0 to deaths, GnW has 0 to deaths, Zard used to and still might, Bowser has them, plenty of characters can hit Falcon just as hard as he can them and he's got a pretty midling level recovery on top of that. His offense is still strong and vs a lot of the new cast, his speed and relative lack of commitment can be a huge problem. I'd put him right around the middle of mid tier, maybe slightly better than that. He's really fair.

Haha. Fair.

 

[Nguz95]

His weight still means that he's extremely susceptible to a lot of characters on stage when they touch him, though, so Falcon players have to be a lot more vigilant (read: lame) in dealing with that.

Zelda has 0 to deaths, GnW has 0 to deaths, Zard used to and still might, Bowser has them, plenty of characters can hit Falcon just as hard as he can them and he's got a pretty midling level recovery on top of that. His offense is still strong and vs a lot of the new cast, his speed and relative lack of commitment can be a huge problem. I'd put him right around the middle of mid tier, maybe slightly better than that. He's really fair.

Haha. Fair.

It's a good thing GnW and Zelda are lower on the usage list. Bowser and Charizard can get bodied so hard by Cfal though. As soon as either of them are above Cfal it's Uair all day. I do agree that he is a really fair character, but I feel like his weak MUs are more against gimpy characters rather than heavies.

 

[MVP]

His weight still means that he's extremely susceptible to a lot of characters on stage when they touch him, though, so Falcon players have to be a lot more vigilant (read: lame) in dealing with that.

Zelda has 0 to deaths, GnW has 0 to deaths, Zard used to and still might, Bowser has them, plenty of characters can hit Falcon just as hard as he can them and he's got a pretty midling level recovery on top of that. His offense is still strong and vs a lot of the new cast, his speed and relative lack of commitment can be a huge problem. I'd put him right around the middle of mid tier, maybe slightly better than that. He's really fair.

Haha. Fair.

thats CF frame in melee too. he punishes like a motherfooker but he can aslo be punished all the same

 

[BTmoney]

Falcon is so average. His recovery is F tier and it upsets me and everything about him defensively is still poop.

 

[Ninjamo]

I'd say he handles much better. In 2.5 he felt too... "slidey". I still hate his upB recovery though.

 

[BTmoney]

I don't get why space animals can have all their recovery mixups (while still being flat out better characters) and their up B gives them basically no landing lag while Falcon has like 1 mix up (still easily covered lmao) and an unreasonable amount of landing lag for how objectively and comparatively bad his recovery is.

His recovery in melee was bad enough but in "You Must Recover 2.6" it's even harder to stomach lol. Especially since every character's onstage game is just as good as his but they don't have ******** weights, OOS options, and hilarious tech rolls.


edit:

I haven't seen a change list but I think a fair change would be to do this:

• Give him Ganon's Aerial Down B. Falcon kick makes him go hilariously low and it's not like he needs that to be balanced he's already a fast faller and free off stage.
• Reduce Landing Lag on up B by a bit (Ganon can get it too idc)

And if you wanted to get more progressive:

• Give him half decent tech rolls, he's bad enough defensively
• Make upB come out way sooner. Like frame 3-5 (DK, hello?). I don't think Falcons would want their aerials changed even if they were made to come out faster.
• Slightly increase aerial raptor boost speed
• possibly make his up B go minutely higher

thots?

 

[Psychoace]

I'm not sure if he still has the rco lag from recovering to the ledge with falcon dive but if he did I'd start with removing that for sure.

 

[Revven]

I'm not sure if he still has the rco lag from recovering to the ledge with falcon dive but if he did I'd start with removing that for sure.

That glitch was fixed eons ago for all chars affected.

 

[Ninjamo]

• Reduce Landing Lag on up B by a bit (Ganon can get it too idc)
• Make upB come out way sooner. Like frame 3-5 (DK, hello?). I don't think Falcons would want their aerials changed even if they were made to come out faster.
• possibly make his up B go minutely higher.

I like these.

 

[DMG]

A change I would make is have Falcon flip over later in the move, and/or let him grab the edge a bit sooner in the animation so that he's not as vulnerable limb wise. I don't need his Upb recovery to go further but it's balls easy to throw an attack out near the edge and watch him run into it.

 

[BTmoney]

A change I would make is have Falcon flip over later in the move, and/or let him grab the edge a bit sooner in the animation so that he's not as vulnerable limb wise. I don't need his Upb recovery to go further but it's balls easy to throw an attack out near the edge and watch him run into it.

That's not a ba idea either, how do you feel about where he stands from a viable standpoint?

 

[Ninjamo]

I've got it! Super armor during the peak of his flip, like when he's upside-down his clenched buttcheeks absorb knockback!

 

[DMG]

Falcon's tricky to place imo. I think he's underrated by a lot of people who will give the benefit of the doubt to, say Pit or Wolf, instead of Falcon.

 

[BTmoney]

I think he probably has some auto combos worth ironing out since a lot of the cast is mid weight. I feel like he has one of the strongest mid weight combo games.

I can see him being about how good he is in melee in PM (percentile) or really really low.

I just can't find a reason to put a ton of effort into him since the PM meta is so volatile and violent and Falcon barely got by in melee. I'd be pretty damn happy if he got a notably improved recovery (like some of the stuff above), I really don't think it's fair how he is lol.

 

[DMG]

Yeah the new characters are overall perfect for getting that GG combo. Either Heavy, big sized, and kinda floaty like Wario Rob Snake, or Light + Anything which is free as ****. He doesn't really struggle vs any new characters camping, and with Sonic Lucario nerfed he doesn't have lolbad MU's from them usually.

I would play Falcon in PM every game but like you said it's getting harder and harder to stay relevant. He's in a good spot, just needs everyone else to stop being so ridiculous.

 

[Nguz95]

Yeah the new characters are overall perfect for getting that GG combo. Either Heavy, big sized, and kinda floaty like Wario Rob Snake, or Light + Anything which is free as ****. He doesn't really struggle vs any new characters camping, and with Sonic Lucario nerfed he doesn't have lolbad MU's from them usually.

I would play Falcon in PM every game but like you said it's getting harder and harder to stay relevant. He's in a good spot, just needs everyone else to stop being so ridiculous.

Truth indeed. Cfal is all about shoving it up people's poopholes though, so the underdog mentality shouldn't be too new.

I'm calling it right now though. Pit= worst MU ever. I can't think of a single character that gets crped on harder by Pit's game than Cfal. The arrows and the crazy fast tilts/smashes make him a deadly character already, but when you combine that with the best gimping in the game Cfal gets shoved in the dirt faster than you can say Hyesz.

Good thing nobody plays that fruity angel though, moving on...

The fact that most of the cast is midweight really helps. Cfal can go to town with most of his moves, and I think some of his moves, like dair, are becoming even more useful as it really sets up mid% knees for the midweights. Cfal mains are really going to have to be careful until he gets a recovery boost though. He needs that boost power to get back in it.

 

[DMG]

You can Nair Plane through arrows, or run up shield. Falcon covers so much ground that in neutral it's not very wise to arrow him much. Most Pit players I face crumble up close to Falcon's pressure. I don't get to play vs Armada every day, but I like that MU. I couldn't see it being worse than even for Falcon, I'm confident enough in that.

 

[Nguz95]

That actually makes sense. I guess I'm not imaginative enough. Or maybe I'm just a stinky Falcon... Oh well, I love the character, so I'm not dropping him anytime soon. I'm still convinced he's at least high mid tier.

 

[Strawhat09]

Falcon is kewl

 

[Nguz95]

Excellent point. You're probable the most active PM Falcon main here, what do you think? Any better/worse MUs?

 

[Strawhat09]

I don't want to say anything about falcon in 2.6 because I have not experienced 2.6 enough In fact the only practice I get is with my brother which is a ness main. after low tier city I'll see how I feel about falcon is a in 2.6. overall though I feel like Falcon is a lot smoother and he's starting to the few more like his melee self. He still has the same combo game really against the same characters as he did in 2.5. I don't know. we'll see how 2.6 works out for Falcon at the tourney this weekend

 

[BlinkIV]

To add my insight, being a Pit main. I do love the Falcon MU as well, it's really fun to play, but it's not Falcon's worst MU, by a long shot. Pit can't really outcamp Falcon, especially now in 2.6 with arrow cooldown being increased. Aside from that, Falcon actually does relatively well against Pit. Both characters can 0 to death each other, they can convert, have kill setups.

I only proclaim it slightly Falcon's favor, due to a guaranteed kill setup he has against Pit at a good %. Aside from that, it's not that bad of a MU for Falcon.

EDIT: 400th post hype.

 

[Sixth-Sense]

To add my insight, being a Pit main. I do love the Falcon MU as well, it's really fun to play, but it's not Falcon's worst MU, by a long shot. Pit can't really outcamp Falcon, especially now in 2.6 with arrow cooldown being increased. Aside from that, Falcon actually does relatively well against Pit. Both characters can 0 to death each other, they can convert, have kill setups.

I only proclaim it slightly Falcon's favor, due to a guaranteed kill setup he has against Pit at a good %. Aside from that, it's not that bad of a MU for Falcon.

EDIT: 400th post hype.

I actually agree with this, Falcon has great bnb combos on the light cast, and pit seems alot to me like Marth, where you both can easily kill eachother but it's even easier for falcon, although i think pit is a better match-up for falcon, its what DMG said, they just really can't keep up with the speed and they lose a ton of ground in seconds, plus pit doesn't seem to have a reliable way to get out of shield pressure and his weight doesn't help with Falcon's grab game.

But pit can do some nasty stuff too, so i'd actually its a 60/40 in falcon's favor

BTW you guys have to put on the freaking sound engine thing, i changed it yesterday and falcon feels even better, not to mention the rest of the melee cast

 

[Phaiyte]

inb4 change list is released and absolutely nothing happened to Falcon and everyone's just under a placebo effect

 

[MVP]

inb4 change list is released and absolutely nothing happened to Falcon and everyone's just under a placebo effect

haha funny .... now where's dat changelist?

 

[Phaiyte]

haha funny .... now where's dat changelist?

I mostly believe that if anything happened to Falcon it's mostly via game engine rather than Falcon himself. But I'm waiting on it too.

 

[MVP]

I mostly believe that if anything happened to Falcon it's mostly via game engine rather than Falcon himself. But I'm waiting on it too.

i agree with that. i also think its the game engine fixes that made the difference for him

 

[prisoner]

I feel like his IASA may have been tweaked, particularly on the knee... or it could be my imagination, but I swear I was acting out of it sooner in 2.6... his tilts also seem more reliable/faster, but maybe I'm just figuring out how to use them.

 

[Nausicaa]

Pivot.
^Falcon wins because that exists in peak awesomeness in PM.

 

[210stuna]

Ivy is good now? That's interesting...

Cfal is still a very dangerous and powerful character. All of his famous combos from Melee are intact, but this time around there are more mid and heavyweights for him to go to town on. I personally think that a lot of Cfal's success depends of the character he is playing against, and since Project M has a lot of characters that are really susceptible to stuff like Uair Uair Knee and Dthrow tech chases, Cfal is still safely in the mid to high tier category.

That being said, there are also a lot of characters that will really make life as a Cfal main hard. Old problems like Jigglypuff are still around, and newcomers like Metaknight and Pit are equipped with all the tools to really gimp Cfal hard. His recovery, while definitely buffed, is still subpar, and that makes some MUs really hard.

Going back to his strengths, Cfal's deadly speed is something that can be abused against the wealth of slower characters that PM offers. You ncan really run around people like Bowser, Ike, and Ivy, and since his throw game is so fantastic you can capitalize on your speed no matter the opponent. Additionally, a lot of the new stages really work in Cfal's favor. WarioWare, Smashville, and Halberd are all stages with small walls, which means more quick Knee kills. There are also more stages with walls, which definitely helps his recovery and his offense. However, places like Castlevania and Metal Cavern, which have huge walls, can really be a problem when you are trying to get a kill.

Overall I say Cfal has retained his mid-high tier status. He can compete with virtually any character by virtue of his really strong strengths, but the new environment of PM makes it so you really have to pay attention to your opponents and the stages they choose.

For some reason I read Cfal as calf.

OT: He feels more like his Melee version with his fair packing the right punch, and moonwalking feeling spot on. Others are right though, other characters are getting buffed and Falcon went from straight in the middle to right in the same place as of this update. I'll tell you this though, for having Falcon as one of my mains he still is a deal breaker for telling me if you're a "Okay player" to "Oh we're playing for real now?!"

 

[-Fatality-]

Captain Falcon feels pretty great in this build, more like his Melee self than ever before.
Though I still think he's slightly underwhelming in comparison to much of the cast now.
Perhaps they could make his UP-B come out a few frames faster and have less if any landing lag.
Doing so could give him a janky, but solid OOS option, a better recovery. and a better combo game since he can now realistically combo into it.

 

[prisoner]

I agree. they should at least cut down the landing lag.

his recovery is so telegraphed; if you screw up your edge-guard and let him touch the ground, you don't deserve to get a free grab/smash attack on him. considering Fox/Falco are better characters and don't really have any landing lag on their Up-B, I don't think it would make Falcon OP at all. he'd still be screwed pretty hard if he gets hit off-stage.

 

[Ace55]

Yeah I agree on cutting down his upB landing lag. Just stopping him from landing on-stage in the first place is laughably easy most of the time.

 

[OptimusRhymez]

What about being able to jump cancel his down b?

 

[Yung Mei]

falcons alright. vs gnw, that matchup is in gnw's favor cuz bacon, though falcon can go to town on him if gnw ****s up something

falcon's alright, but i honestly think he's getting "pushed down" because quite a few characters have been introduced that give him a hard time

 

[Ace55]

What about being able to jump cancel his down b?

Even though Falcon Kick to knee sound enticing I don't feel that would solve any of his problems.

 

[210stuna]

What about being able to auto-roll left/right if you miss with side B?

I think anything changed about Falcon would have to strength or speed. Anything like a new move would just cause it's own set of pros/cons (Unless it was Falcon Punch maybe?). He's already fast, and has some strong moves. It's the lag from his specials, and slower tilts that hinder him.