2.6 Falcon

[skstylez]

Even though Falcon Kick to knee sound enticing I don't feel that would solve any of his problems.

Witnessed this first hand from Silentspectre... be careful what you wish for.

 

[Strawhat09]

Being able to jumpcancel falcon kick would be pretty badass.

 

[GeZ]

I feel like a lot of you guys are largely missing why Captain Falcon struggles, and why it's harder to remedy than slightly tweaking specials. The thing with Falcon is his weaknesses stem almost in there entirety from the same basis his strengths do. He's got great a great rushdown and combo game, inversely he's punched in the face to death by a lot of the cast. In this case it's his weight that causes BOTH of these. Tweaking his weight to make him less comboable would make other characters less comboable to him. Same with his fall speed. His recovery is just bad. Always has been. It definitely puts him down a bit but that's because he's got such rushdown ability. His recovery is akin to the Space animals, which is to say, predictable and with less than fantastic priority. But he can show them, and a whole **** ton of the cast, the business with his knee's, energy legs, and man arms. I could go in greater detail but what I'm getting at is that Falcon might not need a more solid move set, but instead more solid players. So instead of wishing things were better, don your spandex and put on your nipple caps, it's time for Falcon Dunk!

 

[Nguz95]

A very fair point. However, weight has almost nothing to do with fall speed. It controls horizontal knockback and vertical knockback (to a degree). Fall speed is a composite of terminal velocity and gravity. This explains why characters like Samus can be heavy and floaty at the same time. Changing his weight would just make him experience different knockback. Increasing his weight a little would make him last longer, but it would make him easier to combo. Decreasing his gravity a little would make his fast-fall slower. He would experience less hitstun as well. However, he would lose some combo ability, and he would feel completely different from Melee.

 

[GeZ]

The point is, and what I'm not hearing much against, that changing these aspects change the rest of his game. Now I know that weight and fall speed aren't related but the point stands, Falcon would become very unfalcon, very quickly.

 

[Nguz95]

The point is, and what I'm not hearing much against, that changing these aspects change the rest of his game. Now I know that weight and fall speed aren't related but the point stands, Falcon would become very unfalcon, very quickly.

Very true. I think you are right. Cfal needs a supportive, devoted fanbase before we count him out.

 

[Strawhat09]

I was just thinking that the ability to cancel falcon kick would be super stylish. I dont think it should be implemented into his aresenal. His falcon kick already has amazing priority...It often catches people offguard. I'm pretty sure falconkick only loses to a small amount of moves. For example, Wario's side b and a stichface. Im not sure about DK groundpound or Charizrd's dsmash...Also, when Falcon does an aerial forward b,and comes in contact with something, you can DI foward or back, which will affect his aerial movemwent(Not to much of an extent, but you might be able to escape a punish. Falcon is a solid character..Im done johning for him. Short hop knees do incredible shield stun and if spaced correctly, you can go for another spaced knee, grab, dtilt...nair...(this might not work opn characters with superior grab range like ddd and marth...Also I try to escape shield pressure with shorthop aerial falcon kick. It catches folk offguard. All and all, the project m scene needs better falcon representatives. Im trying my best to be a better one. Word of advice to falcon mains, if you're coming from melee do not implement your playstyle into project m. Tweak it a bit and make some adjustments because pm is a different atmosphere. Im done for now. Peace Guys!

 

[GeZ]

I'd actually say that copy pasting melee Falcon strategy mostly works, in regards to mindset. Falcons game hasn't changed from melee much at all, which makes me happy because high speed, rushdown, mixup, combo, beatdown, RUNRUNRUNRUN, is super fun. And with the roster tweaks he's been given some tough opposition, but that should affect how you approach those matchups rather than Falcon. His breathing down neck until death is eternal, his application of it has changed. Also I just have to ask, do people really use falcon kick as an attack? I don't mean this to be condescending but jesus is it bad. Punishable as hell, not his best kill option, doesn't lend to combos, etc etc. Even as a mixup I see no reason to use this over his insane grab game, dash dancing, aerials, or raptor boost mixup.

 

[Strawhat09]

Project m has a lot of surprise attacks that require the opponent to know it's coming. If you watch Kage's Ganon in melee, he gets a ton of kills using downB. Going back to project m, falcon kick is a very powerful and fast move. Ganon's downb is fast, and Wario's forward b are not necessarily fast, but they can be used randomly...they have a lot of priority and knockback. I dont like to use Falcon kick randomly anymore...It does frustrate opponents if they catch themselves getting hit by that move far too many times...it can force oppenents into their sheilds in anticipation of that move. All in all, falcon kick doesnt lead to anything..i wouldnt count it out, though... It's very good against lightweights such as spacies and g&w. I tend to not use it at all for an entire game and surprise a lightweight with it when theyre at high percents...another thing, the crouch canceling in Project m ****s on Falcon. Spaced sheild pressure such as nairs and fairs dont work on the entire cast...Id like to believe that falcon kick comes out fast enough to where an opponent wont see it coming...It helps raise percentage until the character falcon is against can no longer be punished with a CC grab, downsmash or whatever...It's very punishable at low percents, so as far as viable options go for falcon, downB is not one of them.

 

[GeZ]

I'm confused as to the point of this post. You state a bunch of, i'd say, questionable situations where it works as well as any other mixup, and then reiterate at the end that it's not a viable option. Are we in agreement or what?

 

[Ace55]

Falcon kick is useful for getting back to center stage when you're cornered to the edge. That and recovery is about all I use it for.

 

[Strawhat09]

I'm struggling to put my thoughts into words, tbh. I agree with you that falcon kick doesn't lead to any setups. I still think this move is still viable...it just needs to be used appropriately. Its a circumstantial move that I will still try to implement here and there.

 

[Oro?!]

Falcon Kick kills, combos, is really fast, and is really hard to punish if used correctly.

 

[DMG]

It should hit exactly like Wizard Kick

 

[GeZ]

Falcon Kick kills, combos, is really fast, and is really hard to punish if used correctly.

I can agree with fast and hard to punish if used right, but does it kill against anybody but the really heavies? And I know you can combo into it but Falcon is supposed to really chase down his opponent. Falcon kicking them out of the range of your wonderfully muscley arms, legs, knees, and nipples seems counter intuitive unless your confident in it's killing potential which again, I'm unsure about vs anything but heavy chars. But if you guys got the know how, I'd love to be proven wrong. I was just coming here to ask if anybody had any other moves to use for consistent kills besides The Knee. My games reached a stumbling block in that aspect.

 

[DMG]

Don't need outright kills half the time. His edge guarding is decent enough, and for floaties/people you can't do that to, chances are you can Uair them to death AKA Mario and Peach and friends get boned if they are above you. If you're not getting hit, and keep them in crappy positions, that's good enough usually to "eventually" convert. If you need a kill, sure it's obvious Knee is the solution 90% of the time. But you can be ahead and have significant positional advantages, and ride those until something better will unfold. Doesn't necessarily have to be Knee every stock.

 

[GeZ]

Swiggidy swag. Uair to death is delicious, and I see what you mean by putting opponents in disadvantageous positions. Thanks DMG.
I was wondering what some good approaching options are with Falcon, because I've been integrating mixing up Nair, Dair, Fair, or fast falling the Nair so the first hit connects and going for grabs, along with raptor boost, or faking the Aerial and going for a fast fall grab. That's all I've got though and I get slapped out of those options and around often. Should I play the neutral game more and look for openings? And if so, what counts as an opening?

 

[DMG]

Get used to DDing a lot and waiting for them to mess up. Patience when approaching is key, because even though Falcon is fast, he doesn't have the range or ridic frame data to make it work as much as other characters.

 

[GeZ]

I've heard that advice before, but what constitutes as a mistake? Some kind of approach? Or do I wait for them to get in to some kind of pattern and then fly in? I've just been fuzzy on the what I'm waiting for part.
Alternatively I do very well with frantic study, so if you could recommend me a player, or link a vid, that showed off a great Falcon, I could work off that.

 

[DMG]

Well the basic idea with fast ground characters is using that speed to either prematurely bait them into a response (that you get to punish), or actually executing that threat of being close with an attack. Which one to go for is something you have to judge at that time, based on who they are playing and how they are playing. If you aren't sure, then take your time and feel them out for a good while. Falcon is usually fast enough that he warrants a timely response by the other person, otherwise they'll likely get mowed over. Even characters that do very well against him, like Falco and Sheik, don't want to chance Falcon being all in their face. Try to abuse this with a variety of options once you get to a reasonable range. Run up and shield, run flying at or through them with an aerial, run at them and then aerial in place, threaten to grab, Dash Dance in place (near them obviously, not much point doing an in place DD at the edge of FD completely away from them), Dash Dance backwards, DD Juke quickly in their face and go straight at them instead, etc

You can't always just GG the opponent and know the correct option to pick. Each individual option, for the most part, probably won't shut down the other guy or even work most of the time. It's when you take the entire package of viable options, and boost it by being a fast nimble character like Falcon, that it becomes a lot harder to deal with. For each option you have, they probably have a counter, but when they have to consider your speed and the other choices you have (some of those choices possibly beating their own option), it alleviates a lot of the pressure you have of being super precise and correct. That kind of speed, if slapped on a character with a bit more range or attack speed or rush down, honestly is close to broken.

If you want videos of PM specifically, I'd say Strawhat is probably the most current example. Most top Melee Falcon players don't play PM or prefer Melee, so not much use looking them up unless for Melee. I'm decent with the character but I'm far too inconsistent with him and I don't really main him, so I wouldn't list myself anytime soon.

 

[GeZ]

Sweetness. Thanks for the informative post. I'll get to practicing and hopefully buff up my game. As an aside, who do you main DMG?
And on an unrelated note, I was playing a match with my friend who mains Ike, and I falcon kicked him off the ledge, double jumped, and spiked, with ample time to recover. I get that it's situational, but it was still really freaking cool.
Ninja Edit: Jesus christ Strawhat, nice Falcon. I like the wavedashing to cancel your dash and platform game, let alone the raptor boost shenanigans. ****ing anyway, training more. Hopefully I'll be able to play online with some of you guys in a while.

 

[DMG]

I used to Main him in Melee, but I find it a lot easier to play Marth or OP CP Fox. If you're having an off day with Falcon, it's the worst feeling ever and you tend to get beat up for it, and unless I could solidify how I play with him I don't see myself primarily using him.

 

[Strawhat09]

Ah, I can't even begin to explain how frustrating inconsistency with Falcon is...the transition from 2.5 to 2.6 threw me off...to me pulling

 

[Strawhat09]

To me , pulling off tech skill in 2.5 was much easier because he was a bit stickier...2.6 falcon was too fast for me to handle at first...my tech skill was a mess...

 

[Strawhat09]

I'm now just starting to gain come consistency...eh :/ I need to work on my patience. I love to rush my opponent down, but I grow tired of dash dancing in order to bait, so I usually run in with a Nair and get punished...im trying to get better at spacing attacks and patience...

don't get hit- isai

 

[Ariyo]

I'm now just starting to gain come consistency...eh :/ I need to work on my patience. I love to rush my opponent down, but I grow tired of dash dancing in order to bait, so I usually run in with a Nair and get punished...im trying to get better at spacing attacks and patience...

don't get hit- isai

Which is why i agree that a jump cancelled Falcon Kick would be great. Could be similar to Sonic's current down B.

 

[Nausicaa]

So instead of wishing things were better, don your spandex and put on your nipple caps, it's time for Falcon Dunk!

Universally applicable quote is universally applicable.
This was my favorite part though. :D

 

[GeZ]

My favorite part of Falcon, and really half the reason I play him, is because he's so damn fancy. And the more drastic and pinpoint my combo turns out, the more I scream with childish glee internally whenever the Knee connects. It's all gravy. Plus whenever I do something particularly flashy all I can hear for the rest of the match is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZTHCInxt8o

 

[Strawhat09]

Did anyone watch hax play falcon in pm yesterday? He was struggling so hard!

 

[GeZ]

Jesus really? That's messed up... Why do you think he was getting tossed about? And could you link the match?

 

[Strong Badam]

A complete lack of match-up knowledge would make any seasoned player struggle.

 

[Strawhat09]

Well, NO DUH! It was so hard to watch him play Rolex, though. I hope this motivates him to play PM more instead of pushing him further away.

 

[Strawhat09]

Like

Jesus really? That's messed up... Why do you think he was getting tossed about? And could you link the match?

Basically what Strong Bad said...He wasnt used to PM's environment...It's a pretty wacky environment when you're dominantly a Melee player.

 

[Strawhat09]

I forgot the name of the twitch stream....twitch.tv/rundas? Something close to that....
It was a secondary stream at a Brawl Monthly(CROSSFIRE?) in New York.

 

[GeZ]

Yeah, I get that. There's definitely a few characters that have almost no parallel in P:M. Hopefully he sticks with it, he's a great Falcon and he'd do the Project Melee tournament scene good.

 

[Strawhat09]

Yup...he's participating in project m at big house 3 so that's kinda hype. I hope he sticks to falcon because he went fox in one round versus rolex's snake...which is so uncharacteristic of him

 

[DMG]

Maybe you didn't hear on FB, but there was a somewhat reputable rumor that he was looking into Fox for some MU's/opponents in Melee. Most people wrote it off, but it sounded decently serious.

 

[Nguz95]

That would make me sad indeed.

 

[GeZ]

I would cry

 

[CyberZixx]

Hax's falcon is so good and one of the few good falcons left. To see him go dual fox would be sad but understandable.