Official 1.1.6 Patch Notes/Patch Discussion

[KeeganKTK]

The ride never ends, does it? Welcome to the official thread for version 1.1.6. This thread not only contains the patch notes, but also the discussion for it.

Because the only changes made in this patch are to Bayonetta, we do not feel it is necessary to have a separate thread for patch notes and patch discussion. The changes to Bayonetta will be catalogued here.

Previous Patch Notes:
1.1.5 - March Update
1.1.4 - February Update
1.1.3 - December Update

File Size:
65 MB (Wii U)
325 MB/2600 Blocks (3DS) [The reason for the large file size is due to how patches work on 3DS. It must download all of the previous patches alongside new content, explaining the large file size.]

Character | Last (CDT) | Changes | Progress
Bayonetta | 19:35|

• Dtilt:
  • Hitbox Size: 3.5 -> 2.8
  • FAF: 26F -> 27F
• Fair:
  • First Hit Damage: 3.8 -> 3
  • Second Hit Damage: 2.8% -> 2.2%
  • Third Hit:
    • KBG: 82 -> 68
    • Autocancel Frame: 32F> -> 35F>
    • FAF: 36 -> 40
• Dair Landing Hit KBG: 140 -> 135
• After Burner Kick:
  • Upwards Kick:
    • All Hitboxes SDI Multiplier: 1 -> 2
    • Early Hit KBG: 40 -> 50
    • Normal Hit KBG: 30 -> 38
    • Late Hit KBG: 100 -> 112
  • Divekick:
    • Damage: 8% -> 6.5%
    • Angle: 80° -> 60°
    • Hitbox Size: 6.5 -> 4.5
    • SDI Multiplier: 1 -> 2
• Witch Twist:
  • All Hitboxes SDI Multiplier: 1 -> 2
  • Early Middle Hit:
    • Lower Hitbox:
      • Angle: 100 -> 97
      • WKB: 160 -> 140
      • Hitbox Y Position: 24 -> 21
    • Both Hitbox Sizes: 8 -> 7
  • Middle Middle Hit:
    • Upper Hitbox Y Position: 24 -> 21
    • Lower Hitbox Size: 8 -> 7
  • Late Middle Hit:
    • Upper Hitbox Y Position: 24 -> 21
    • Upper Hitbox WKB: 160 -> 135
    • Lower Hitbox Size: 8 -> 7
  • Last Hit (First Use):
    • KBG: 105 -> 80
    • BKB: 50 -> 55
    • Hitbox Size: 9 -> 8.5
    • Hitbox Y Position: 20 -> 19
  • Last Hit (Second Use):
    • KBG: 30 -> 50
    • Hitbox Size: 9 -> 8.5
    • Hitbox Y Position: 20 -> 19

| 90%

When I first saw these changes, my immediate thoughts were that "this might be a little too hard"
However, when I saw these changes in play, I lost those doubts, because even though she may not have her easy 0-death combos, Bayonetta is still a lot better than people gave her credit for. She still has her aireal combos, her Witch Time is still best counter, and her combo game hasn't changed much at all, making the only "really bad thing" about this patch is the fact I had to delete all my highlights/replays

Even when she was extremely OP I've always admired Bayo players. Now I admire them even more, seeing that the people that don't whine about the heavy nerf and actually take the time to actually figure out that not much has really changed about her. In fact, I know I don't play Bayonetta that much (and I'm too used to ground combat), but her ground combat actually has some great ways of attack as well as her air combos. As I said, I'm not a Bayonetta player, but still those were kinda my thoughts when I tried her out for my very first time after the patch.

To those of you who play Bayonetta (or any "OP" character in particular), do what you may. I find Bayonetta a really fun character to fight against, as her moves provide quite an interesting challenge in particular.

Now as far as other character buffs, I personally never thought anyone really needed a buff or a nerf this patch (at least not yet). So long as you know how to deal with the overused characters you should be fine. I keep hearing Dedede buff requests, but does he really need one? He has multiple ways to punish characters, has a strong Inhale that actually inhales projectiles, his F-tilt has long range and good for zoning, Gordos are great for getting your enemy where you want them, and Super Dedede jump gives him amazing recovery. His Side Smash is the 2nd most powerful AND has a great hitbox, Down Smash can combo into his standard attack, and his standart attack is probably the easiest "press A twice to combo" attack in the game. The only weaknesses I can think of is his slow speed, low jump, and laggy attacks. Other than that he's a great character that doesn't really need changes that bad.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Lol the salty Bayonetta "mains" complaining about the nerf. "Oh gee Bayonetta now takes skill to play I'm mad."

But I didn't play Bayonetta at all....

 

[SoccerStar9001]

and her combo game hasn't changed much at all

Really? Because I heavily disagree with that.
She can't combo off of aerials outside of Uair, she can't combo off dive kick and witch twist, she can't combo off of throw, she can't really combo much if the opponent knows SDI.
Even Mario/Luigi/Sonic/Sheik/Diddy/ZSS/Cloud/Ryu have faster, more damaging, more reliable combos than her.

Now as far as other character buffs, I personally never thought anyone really needed a buff or a nerf this patch (at least not yet). So long as you know how to deal with the overused characters you should be fine. I keep hearing Dedede buff requests, but does he really need one? He has multiple ways to punish characters, has a strong Inhale that actually inhales projectiles, his F-tilt has long range and good for zoning, Gordos are great for getting your enemy where you want them, and Super Dedede jump gives him amazing recovery. His Side Smash is the 2nd most powerful AND has a great hitbox, Down Smash can combo into his standard attack, and his standart attack is probably the easiest "press A twice to combo" attack in the game. The only weaknesses I can think of is his slow speed, low jump, and laggy attacks. Other than that he's a great character that doesn't really need changes that bad.

Uhhhh...... he does need a buff if he wants to compete in high level tournaments.
Gordos are easy to counter and has high startup on them. His attacks are overall underwhelming compared to other heavyweights and his mobility is really bad.
His FSmash is the strongest in the game, but it has ridiculously high startup and endlag.
His slow speed and slow attack speed make it easy to camp him. He big size and high weight make he combo food. And he is easy to punish while having to rely on heavy reads to punish.

Dedede is a pretty bad character in high level play, he is probably better for low level play.

 

[Sliquify_Cheeze]

Bayo needed some nerfs, sure, but neutering her main combo tools was probably going too far.

I wouldn't call what she did combos. Let's be real here, I think Bayo still has potential, but the whole WT-SideB-WT-Uair with virtually no SDI-multiplier was pretty unfair. Look at characters like Corrin, no real combos or guaranteed follow-ups, still a decent character. I personally think Bayo could be the same, all she needs is a new playstyle. It's like if Melee players looked at Marth. "Oh no, he can't kill after 100%, BAD CHARACTER!". Even if he can't combo properly, he can kill, with just a bit of patience. I'll compare it to the Melee-Brawl transition. Brawl is much more slow-paced, and I get that some people can't do that kind of playstyle (myself included), but as soon as a new-more patient playstyle was discovered, it was actually fun. So I think that's Bayo right now. I think the Bayo players who stick with her now will end up giving us a dynamically different playstyle.....ok end rant.

 

[SoccerStar9001]

Let's be real here, I think Bayo still has potential

With what exactly? She doesn't have to mobility and framedata to perform Sheik style combos.

but the whole WT-SideB-WT-Uair with virtually no SDI-multiplier was pretty unfair.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJNu49zOkXE
And that was prepatch.

Look at characters like Corrin, no real combos or guaranteed follow-ups, still a decent character.

Nice try, but you aren't showing the entire picture here. Trying claim character A is decent character without X, so character B without X is also a good character is silly. Corrin herself also has many combos and her specials are extremely good. She can camp and zone with Neutral B and approach or retreat even kill with Side B, Bayonetta's Neutral only camps and has high endlag with an awkward angle, and her side B is considerably slower than Corrin's and doesn't kill.

I personally think Bayo could be the same, all she needs is a new playstyle.

That doesn't change how bad the character is. Zelda players all need to adapt a slow and defensive playstyle, but she is still low/bottom tier because of bad mobility and poor neutral.

It's like if Melee players looked at Marth. "Oh no, he can't kill after 100%, BAD CHARACTER!".

Marth has the Ken combo, he also has a great neutral and mobility so even after 100% he is still a force to be reckon with.

Even if he can't combo properly, he can kill, with just a bit of patience.

Bayonetta can't kill the opponent at 0% and she can't do many thing that Melee Marth are capable of doing. Marth also stop comboing at 100%, Bayonetta stops after 10%, maybe even 0%.

Brawl is much more slow-paced, and I get that some people can't do that kind of playstyle (myself included), but as soon as a new-more patient playstyle was discovered, it was actually fun.

Except Smash 4 is faster than Brawl, and Brawl had hitstun canceling and Meta Knight.

So I think that's Bayo right now. I think the Bayo players who stick with her now will end up giving us a dynamically different playstyle.....ok end rant.

A different playstyle doesn't solve her problems, it tries to avoid it, but it will inevitably create new problems. Sooner or later, Bayonetta is goona hit a brick wall that she can't beat.
Zoning characters are still a major pain in the ass because her slow and telegraphed approach options. Now she can't even punish them properly.

 

[Flamegeyser]

I wouldn't call what she did combos. Let's be real here, I think Bayo still has potential, but the whole WT-SideB-WT-Uair with virtually no SDI-multiplier was pretty unfair. Look at characters like Corrin, no real combos or guaranteed follow-ups, still a decent character. I personally think Bayo could be the same, all she needs is a new playstyle. It's like if Melee players looked at Marth. "Oh no, he can't kill after 100%, BAD CHARACTER!". Even if he can't combo properly, he can kill, with just a bit of patience. I'll compare it to the Melee-Brawl transition. Brawl is much more slow-paced, and I get that some people can't do that kind of playstyle (myself included), but as soon as a new-more patient playstyle was discovered, it was actually fun. So I think that's Bayo right now. I think the Bayo players who stick with her now will end up giving us a dynamically different playstyle.....ok end rant.

Corrin's got good neutral and heavy disjoints. Bayo was specifically made with the idea that her neutral is mediocre, but her reward is outstanding. If you take away the reward part, you're left with just mediocre. Obviously I'm exaggerating, because we're learning more combos every day and she can still kill (with difficulty) but the nerfs were still severe.

 

[Bowserboy3]

Sees a post about Melee Marth...

he also has a great neutral

Does. Not. Compute.

Marth in Melee has tools he can use in neutral, thanks to his mobility, but they are easily telegraphed and predictable. Marth's neutral in Melee is by no mean's bad, but I wouldn't call it good, so to speak. Acceptable would be a better term.

But please, every post I have seen from you over this past week has been nothing but negativity regarding Bayonetta. I too am pretty upset about the nerfs, but I must say, they are making me develop with Bayonetta more, as opposed to relying on one thing (her death combos).

Please, lighten up a bit.

 

[SoccerStar9001]

Sees a post about Melee Marth...

Does. Not. Compute.

Marth in Melee has tools he can use in neutral, thanks to his mobility, but they are easily telegraphed and predictable. Marth's neutral in Melee is by no mean's bad, but I wouldn't call it good, so to speak. Acceptable would be a better term.

But please, every post I have seen from you over this past week has been nothing but negativity regarding Bayonetta. I too am pretty upset about the nerfs, but I must say, they are making me develop with Bayonetta more, as opposed to relying on one thing (her death combos).

Please, lighten up a bit.

I greatly apologize, I thought Melee Marth had a great neutral when people complained about Smash 4 Marth.
I am negative because currently I have not seen much development in 1.1.6 Bayonetta at all (not to be pushy for it though). Bayonetta has nothing new up her sleeve from this patch and I heavily doubt we will find anything earth shattering with her.
I will lighten up once Bayonetta's meta has advance greatly, and to do that I try to be as honest as possible, but I have Asperger so I might go a bit to far on my belief. I am glad to step back on the negativity when I can, because being negative doesn't feel good.

 

[Vipermoon]

This is completely off topic but Melee Marth's neutral is AMAZING. His dash dance and jump cancelled grab alone are enough. Then he has Fair and Nair on top of that to shut down most characters.

If you disagree with me, take it to the private conversations.

 

[Hero_2_All]

I wouldn't call what she did combos. Let's be real here, I think Bayo still has potential, but the whole WT-SideB-WT-Uair with virtually no SDI-multiplier was pretty unfair. Look at characters like Corrin, no real combos or guaranteed follow-ups, still a decent character. I personally think Bayo could be the same, all she needs is a new playstyle. It's like if Melee players looked at Marth. "Oh no, he can't kill after 100%, BAD CHARACTER!". Even if he can't combo properly, he can kill, with just a bit of patience. I'll compare it to the Melee-Brawl transition. Brawl is much more slow-paced, and I get that some people can't do that kind of playstyle (myself included), but as soon as a new-more patient playstyle was discovered, it was actually fun. So I think that's Bayo right now. I think the Bayo players who stick with her now will end up giving us a dynamically different playstyle.....ok end rant.

Corrin main here... she has probably the best true combo game of the swordies (not gonna count MK, thats a butter knife there). Great true combos is kinda Corrin's thing. It is one of the biggest things that sets her apart from the other swordies (that and some good other tools). What can be said about her true combos though is they are consistent, but not insane length or dmg wise. Most are about 2-4 hit true combos doing about 16- 31 dmg; she also has a 42 dmg footstool combo at low percent. Corrin though can follow up into these combos from most of her moves at most percents leading into a couple kill confirms at kill percents ( the windows when most these confirm are true, and kill is tight though). This is of course coupled with her amazing juggle game, and on low percents she can juggle with titls for upwards of 40 dmg sometimes (these tilts juggles frame trap most characters, and trade with characters with frame 3 aerial options).

 

[Kittenpuncher]

Dat booty OP pls nerf

 

[Bowserboy3]

This is completely off topic but Melee Marth's neutral is AMAZING. His dash dance and jump cancelled grab alone are enough. Then he has Fair and Nair on top of that to shut down most characters.

If you disagree with me, take it to the private conversations.

Actually, I was totally in a Smash 4 mindset, and I can't believe I completely forgot about jump cancelled grabs... shows you how long of i've been focusing on Smash 4... now I feel foolish.

Upon more thought, I think I was being a little hasty. Overall, I don't think it's the best neutral, but it's certainly one of the better overall in Melee.
---
However, back on to Bayonetta, hopefully she can develop more as a character now people won't just rely on her death combos.

 

[ExiaPilotDedede]

has a strong Inhale that actually inhales projectiles.

This seems like a good thing, but it actually gives him 20 frames of endlag with no reward. If it gave him health back it would be justifiable, but an inhaled projectile is probably the easiest thing to punish on dedede.

his standart attack is probably the easiest "press A twice to combo" attack in the game..

It's easy to use sure, but it's not actually a locking attack. Even if you get hit by the first jab, just hold shield and you will block the second one and the infinite.

 

[Sliquify_Cheeze]

This thread is getting increasingly away from Bayo.....whoops. But, honestly, I'd be genuinely interested to see what Bayo players can do now. It's like when Shulk or Donkey Kong or something is played well at a high level, it's really interesting to watch.

 

[Jamesibell]

Any proof? At all? Because placebos are very, very, common, and basically everyone trustworthy in regards to data mining has said that only one character's been changed.

I have to take it back now, I looked in on it and it turns out it was just his Aura/Rage. Sorry

 

[KeeganKTK]

Really? Because I heavily disagree with that.
His FSmash is the strongest in the game, but it has ridiculously high startup and endlag.

His is the 2nd most powerful if you count 190% Max Aura Lucario Side Smash

 

[Flamegeyser]

I'm using lots of utilts now, it's a great neutral option, not to mention tied for our fastest ground attack. Hell, it can even combo off of our aerials if FF'd, and off of Heel Slide.

 

[Katuro117]

At the risk of getting shot.
Maybe it will make Bayonetta use a little more variation? And thus more interesting to watch?

 

[Sliquify_Cheeze]

At the risk of getting shot.
Maybe it will make Bayonetta use a little more variation? And thus more interesting to watch?

Hell yeah, and as someone who watches more than plays, that will be very good.

 

[ぱみゅ]

Ok so this thread seems to be going nowhere, the patch was pretty straight-forward with its intention, and funny enough, Bayonetta is still as dividing as ever, possibly even more now since her players are undecided whether how much the changes impacted her game. But anyway, at this point we all are only speculating about her specifics, and that can very well be done in any of the threads already dedicated to Bayonetta.

 

[John12346]

So, I've been meaning to ask.

Apparently, there were rumors of changes to Palutena's Temple and Pokémon Stadium 2. I know neither stage is tournament legal or anything like that, but did we ever figure out what happened to those stages? Did anything happen at all?