1.0.8 Lucina Changed: Jab

[IsaacMole]

With the new patch, Lucina's jab has changed. Notably, jab1 no longer jab locks.

Anyone notice any other changes?

 

[Yukiwarashi]

She's got at least two new voice clips: sometimes she says "Ha!!" when she attacks, and when her counter is successful she says, "You're mine!"

 

[LightLV]

"hey, there's a new fire emblem character, apparently hes really good"

"well what to do with that one fire emblem character that isn't supposed to be good? We're buffing the others."

"...hmmm"

 

[KenMeister]

Yeah, given Roy's appearance and the people who played Lucina because of the loss of Roy beforehand, does anyone still play this character? lol

 

[LightLV]

I played her today, just to see if they changed anything. Still don't notice anything that would ever make me pick her over Marth in a serious situation, and with Roy existing now, whatever 1~1.5% damage difference she has on her attacks are completely negligible in light of what kind of power Roy outputs.

I did notice the jab changes though. I was asking people if it always did that, and i guess i was right. I guess it's decent enough...again, nothing to write home about.

 

[BrendanLee]

I still use Lucina over marth cause shes more consistent but with the lack of good enough buff, Im moving on past FE characters. The jab buff is ok. Also I cant get her to say "Your mine".

 

[Kenith]

Really? Lucina almost always says "You're mine!" when countering for me.

 

[BrendanLee]

There was some sort of glitch. To get Lucina to say "Your mine" in the game I had to go and listen to her voice clips. Once I did that she says it now when I counter.

 

[Dflowen]

Same here I noticed the jab changes. 2nd hit sends them flying now. Not sure but after the 1st jab I can do a follow up grab. Someone want to give a test?

 

[BrendanLee]

I have Found a follow up. Jab 1 to Crescent slash!! Doesnt work on fast fallers, also depends on character weight. Luigi could airdodge out at low percents.

Around 106% for captain falcon (without rage)
0-40% on Ness (without rage)

 

[Duet]

Went ahead and tested her jab after jumping on her. Sad to say that I played her for about 2 minutes before switching to Lucas all day. Anyways, take all this with a grain of salt because I didn't do anything extensive, but tested with a friend on roy. I was able to get jab > grab, jab > dancing blade, jab > d tilt and Jab > fsmash to all work without him being able to get out of it while spamming up B or counter and couldnt shield.

Like I said though, take this with a grain of salt because they aren't true combos according to training mode, but it is worth exploring. At first glance it looks like we gave up the ability to jab reset to give us some very useful set ups. ESPECIALLY with perfect pivot > Jab > follow up.

Either that or Sakurai just screwed us over big time.

 

[Cactusblah]

The new jab sending enemies up is amazing. jab2 is a true combo and other follow-ups work as well. jab > Fsmash seems like a great way to kill now.

First hit of nair > jab > jab2 is a 3x true combo at around 40% against Mario and becomes easier at higher percents. Marth can't do it until around 70%.

 

[Nah]

Her Ftilt now does ~1% more than it used to. Was 9.9% before and now does 10.9%.

 

[Iceweasel]

Yeah, given Roy's appearance and the people who played Lucina because of the loss of Roy beforehand, does anyone still play this character? lol

I played Lucina because Marth sucks in Smash 4. Lucina's not great, but she's not nearly as bad.
(I have pretty much quit Lucina, but that's because I changed mains and Link can do about as well as her in the same role).

..., and with Roy existing now, whatever 1~1.5% damage difference she has on her attacks are completely negligible in light of what kind of power Roy outputs.

Which is exactly why DLC characters should be banned in tournaments. Roy is a shoe-in for high mid-tier and every Ryu video I've seen tells me he's gonna be very high or top tier. 9 months after the game has come out, and they're already selling you power.

 

[LightLV]

That doesn't really matter though, in light of Lucina. Even without Roy, she'd still be worse than Marth, and Marth isn't in the highest of spots right now anyway.

What i find disturbing is how characters like Lucina, Zelda and Samus continue to exist, patch after patch, and actually receive changes, but remain underwhelming by design. In Lucina's case it's as simple as Sakurai literally saying she's Marth Lite, which just kind of dooms her by concept.

 

[Froggy]

This new jab is amazing, I can seemingly always get follow up grabs after the first jab the second jab tumbles them over, it's incredible.

Also if you guys don't see any potential in Lucina then stop playing her, it's better than you ******** about it here.

 

[the101]

Hi. In advance, I apologize for the following statement lacking anything relating the changes made to Lucina. I feel this just had to be said.

One of the many things I love about Smash 4 is the dedication put towards the Fire Emblem franchise in particular. With Roy's return, there are as many Fire Emblem fighters as The Legend of Zelda, and that relization makes me smile. It's almost poetic how the little Japan-exclusive RPG became a staple series of Nintendo and now has its many protagonists stand with more respected characters like Mario, Link, Kirby, or Samus.

When both Robin and Lucina were confirmed in that surprise trailer last summer, I was estatic. The two protagonists I've grown to love through playing Awakening were going to be in the game.

Lucina is a character that deserves to be in Smash, it feels. I wish the circumstances in which she was developed were different, but as with Ganondorf and Falco she can be diversified in future installments if they decide to keep her, and I hope they do. Even now, playing nearly identical Marth, I still enjoy playing as her because she is and feels like Lucina. And really, that's why I'd play anyone in Smash. There's a unique individual feeling in everyone on this roster, including the clones.

While many people may have quickly abandoned her in favor of Roy and Marth, both characters I also love and appreciate, I will not stop playing with Lucina and hoping that she will see further support in tournament play and in game patches.

To those out there who are ridiculed for maining Ylisse's time-traveling princess, I encourage you to challenge their fa- err, ideology. Every fighter has depth and uniqueness to work with.

 

[Ultinarok]

I played Lucina because Marth sucks in Smash 4. Lucina's not great, but she's not nearly as bad.
(I have pretty much quit Lucina, but that's because I changed mains and Link can do about as well as her in the same role).




Which is exactly why DLC characters should be banned in tournaments. Roy is a shoe-in for high mid-tier and every Ryu video I've seen tells me he's gonna be very high or top tier. 9 months after the game has come out, and they're already selling you power.

No offense bro, but you invalidate statements when you say objectively untrue things like your first statement. Lucina is objectively worse than Marth, without question. She is a Marth with less reach, less potential damage and kill power, and is generally worse on shield and suffers from all of his same flaws while only offering consistency (and her deficits without a tipper are not as good as her advantages over the non-tipper). You may PLAY her better than Marth because she's easier to use successfully, but she is worse, and always will be simply by how she is designed. That said, I like Lucina. But I play Marth much more simply because he's better.

Additionally, Roy and Ryu are far from selling someone power. They have obvious flaws that will keep them out of Diddy and Sheik territory, such as Roy's bad recovery and difficult aerial mobility and Ryu's poor range and high learning curve. Roy is actually not much better than Marth as a whole, just much more offensively oriented and easier to use optimally (huge sweetspot says hi).

 

[Timmay08]

Hi. In advance, I apologize for the following statement lacking anything relating the changes made to Lucina. I feel this just had to be said.

One of the many things I love about Smash 4 is the dedication put towards the Fire Emblem franchise in particular. With Roy's return, there are as many Fire Emblem fighters as The Legend of Zelda, and that relization makes me smile. It's almost poetic how the little Japan-exclusive RPG became a staple series of Nintendo and now has its many protagonists stand with more respected characters like Mario, Link, Kirby, or Samus.

When both Robin and Lucina were confirmed in that surprise trailer last summer, I was estatic. The two protagonists I've grown to love through playing Awakening were going to be in the game.

Lucina is a character that deserves to be in Smash, it feels. I wish the circumstances in which she was developed were different, but as with Ganondorf and Falco she can be diversified in future installments if they decide to keep her, and I hope they do. Even now, playing nearly identical Marth, I still enjoy playing as her because she is and feels like Lucina. And really, that's why I'd play anyone in Smash. There's a unique individual feeling in everyone on this roster, including the clones.

While many people may have quickly abandoned her in favor of Roy and Marth, both characters I also love and appreciate, I will not stop playing with Lucina and hoping that she will see further support in tournament play and in game patches.

To those out there who are ridiculed for maining Ylisse's time-traveling princess, I encourage you to challenge their fa- err, ideology. Every fighter has depth and uniqueness to work with.

Pretty tough times to be a Lucina main these days. I hope they do diversify her and keep her as unlikely as it seems because I felt pretty let down by her when the game came out. Even then, I made a pact with myself when the trailer came out that I would main her and I still to this day.

I definitely hope that the metagame will evolve with Lucina, even though many will drop her for Roy. Even though I'm getting frustrated playing Lucina and always losing to the point where I'm almost quitting as well as getting frustrated because she's the "low tier version of an already low tier character", as long as there's a bit of hope for me playing this character then I'll continue to play her.

 

[Nah]

Is her new jab really that good? I'm having trouble doing anything with it other than Jab 1---> Jab 2. Am I doing something wrong or...?

 

[aBlackCat]

Is her new jab really that good? I'm having trouble doing anything with it other than Jab 1---> Jab 2. Am I doing something wrong or...?

You cant get jab to fsmash?

 

[Froggy]

You cant get jab to fsmash?

Does jab to f-smash really work? I was just thinking about characters that might try to nair to avoid the grab, no reason you can't smash them out of that. But does it really work raw like that?

 

[aBlackCat]

Does jab to f-smash really work? I was just thinking about characters that might try to nair to avoid the grab, no reason you can't smash them out of that. But does it really work raw like that?

i see 1st hit nair jab fsmash and jab fsmash

 

[Froggy]

i see 1st hit nair jab fsmash and jab fsmash

Will test this out when I get home.

 

[r_greening1]

No offense bro, but you invalidate statements when you say objectively untrue things like your first statement. Lucina is objectively worse than Marth, without question. She is a Marth with less reach, less potential damage and kill power, and is generally worse on shield and suffers from all of his same flaws while only offering consistency (and her deficits without a tipper are not as good as her advantages over the non-tipper). You may PLAY her better than Marth because she's easier to use successfully, but she is worse, and always will be simply by how she is designed. That said, I like Lucina. But I play Marth much more simply because he's better.

Additionally, Roy and Ryu are far from selling someone power. They have obvious flaws that will keep them out of Diddy and Sheik territory, such as Roy's bad recovery and difficult aerial mobility and Ryu's poor range and high learning curve. Roy is actually not much better than Marth as a whole, just much more offensively oriented and easier to use optimally (huge sweetspot says hi).

I just wanna say your statement on Lucina being "generally worse on shield" is untrue. Whenever Marth gets a tipper, he suffers ~1.5x hitlag to compensate for the knockback and damage. The bad thing is that he'll suffer the ~1.5x hitlag even on shield, making Lucina generally more safe. Also about the reach, it's only a marginal difference that will make no difference in almost any circumstance; other than the situational tippered f-smash on battlefield. The potential damage difference only relies on Marth hitting nothing but tippers. Honestly, I think the only thing Marth has over Lucina is tippered smashes (If he gets them) and a marginal advantage over a shieldbreak.

 

[Locuan]

I just wanna say your statement on Lucina being "generally worse on shield" is untrue. Whenever Marth gets a tipper, he suffers ~1.5x hitlag to compensate for the knockback and damage. The bad thing is that he'll suffer the ~1.5x hitlag even on shield, making Lucina generally more safe. Also about the reach, it's only a marginal difference that will make no difference in almost any circumstance; other than the situational tippered f-smash on battlefield. The potential damage difference only relies on Marth hitting nothing but tippers. Honestly, I think the only thing Marth has over Lucina is tippered smashes (If he gets them) and a marginal advantage over a shieldbreak.

Tipper Smashes are 1.5x hitlag, tipper anything else is 1.25x. Lucina constantly has 1.0x hitlag. Marth's hitlag varies from 0.7x, 1.25x, and 1.5x. Marth mains have the ability to switch between sour-spot and tipper spacing when they require it. For Marth's at a high level its not about "tippered smashes (if I get them)" as you state; their thought process is more along the lines of "I'll use a tipper in this situation, I won't use it in this case." This flexibility of choosing between when to use sour-spots (for stringing attacks better and getting more damage in) and using a tipper smash to successfully get a stock from a read is what makes Marth a more complex and effective character. Through this process they also can avoid situations where they would suffer a lot of hitlag from a missed tipper smash.

With that being said, Marth vs. Lucina discussions that can lead to flame wars are discouraged. So while this discussion is nowhere near that point (in other words carry on), nor it seems it will get to that at all, keep this in mind everyone. I'm watching

 

[thrillagorilla]

Quick question... has Lucina always had iasa frames on her forward air or is it new this patch? I never remember being able to cancel a forward air into a forward b before now.

 

[H-O-G]

Quick question... has Lucina always had iasa frames on her forward air or is it new this patch? I never remember being able to cancel a forward air into a forward b before now.

Yes, it has always been possible to do

 

[thrillagorilla]

Yes, it has always been possible to do

Thank you for the clarification, much apriciated.

 

[Freelance Spy]

Hi. In advance, I apologize for the following statement lacking anything relating the changes made to Lucina. I feel this just had to be said.

One of the many things I love about Smash 4 is the dedication put towards the Fire Emblem franchise in particular. With Roy's return, there are as many Fire Emblem fighters as The Legend of Zelda, and that relization makes me smile. It's almost poetic how the little Japan-exclusive RPG became a staple series of Nintendo and now has its many protagonists stand with more respected characters like Mario, Link, Kirby, or Samus.

When both Robin and Lucina were confirmed in that surprise trailer last summer, I was estatic. The two protagonists I've grown to love through playing Awakening were going to be in the game.

Lucina is a character that deserves to be in Smash, it feels. I wish the circumstances in which she was developed were different, but as with Ganondorf and Falco she can be diversified in future installments if they decide to keep her, and I hope they do. Even now, playing nearly identical Marth, I still enjoy playing as her because she is and feels like Lucina. And really, that's why I'd play anyone in Smash. There's a unique individual feeling in everyone on this roster, including the clones.

While many people may have quickly abandoned her in favor of Roy and Marth, both characters I also love and appreciate, I will not stop playing with Lucina and hoping that she will see further support in tournament play and in game patches.

To those out there who are ridiculed for maining Ylisse's time-traveling princess, I encourage you to challenge their fa- err, ideology. Every fighter has depth and uniqueness to work with.

Personally I like all three of my Marth style lords, at first I thought I'd just switch to Roy because first glance he seems so much better. Then I started noticing what was patched with my real favorite blue haired lords. I'm happy to say that Marth is still my favorite, and that he feels much better nownow.

. Since the same buffs apply to Lucina I have actually been using her as much as I thought I would when she was announced. Plus, I've noticed a MUCH more reliable combo game Luci has. It seemed like that back in the 3ds days but she feels even better. Add the fact she does better vs spacing characters that Marth struggles with, and you have yourself a good secondary with little to no extra practice.

The future is not written, there will be a day Marth and Lucina grace the top tier. Until then I'm going to continue to practice my favorite character so I can be the best when they do get the deserved treatment.

One change to Lucina that would make me straight up main her would be to add the line "Hope will never die!".

Best line in Awakening.

Is her new jab really that good? I'm having trouble doing anything with it other than Jab 1---> Jab 2. Am I doing something wrong or...?

. Practice it more. It's a timing thing, there's a certain frame ya gotta hit it on.

Also I don't think it's true, its not true on Marth until very high percentage, but I could be wrong because NOBODY IS TRYING TO FIND OUT ABOUT THIS POSSIBLE GAME CHANGER! Like, people totally give up on Luci becase she was bad patches ago.

Give it a moment like DB, and if it turns out that it is not true, then use utilt and use the FSMASH as a mindgame or mixup at KO percentage. I think grab and DB also work after jab, needs more testing. Lucina probably has more combo potential than Marth from these new buffs.

Stick to her and find out. Maybe next patch sends her over shiek!? It's an exciting time to have a " bad" character. Look at ike!

ONE MORE THING!
Practice mode combo counter has been proven to not be reliable. Practice with a friend who can DI, perfectly, time first frame hitboxes or counters/nairs, and shield or dodge... It's the only way to know for sure.

...that was a lot of edits and it might be the first time I remembered not to double post....

 

[Froggy]

So many people liked my previous post, I'm touched ^_^

I guess all this ******** about Lucina has been annoying for a while huh?

 

[LightLV]

I just wanna say your statement on Lucina being "generally worse on shield" is untrue. Whenever Marth gets a tipper, he suffers ~1.5x hitlag to compensate for the knockback and damage. The bad thing is that he'll suffer the ~1.5x hitlag even on shield, making Lucina generally more safe. Also about the reach, it's only a marginal difference that will make no difference in almost any circumstance; other than the situational tippered f-smash on battlefield. The potential damage difference only relies on Marth hitting nothing but tippers. Honestly, I think the only thing Marth has over Lucina is tippered smashes (If he gets them) and a marginal advantage over a shieldbreak.

Regardless, none of this is enough to make Lucina even marginally better than Marth in any real situation. She's just too lacking without that tipper hitbox. They should have just made her a few frames faster and decreased her strength to make her unique. The whole "marth lite" concept is one of the worst i've seen in a fighitng game, to be honest.

 

[Freelance Spy]

Regardless, none of this is enough to make Lucina even marginally better than Marth in any real situation. She's just too lacking without that tipper hitbox. They should have just made her a few frames faster and decreased her strength to make her unique. The whole "marth lite" concept is one of the worst i've seen in a fighitng game, to be honest.

Then clearly you haven't even tried to explore the character. If you had youd know there are many little things that not only set her apart, but actually work out better for her in some scenarios. Add to the fact she seems tohave more unexploredunexplored combo potential than Marth. She is definitely worth the practice, if only to pull her out versus other spacers Marth has a hard time tipping. Definitely not as bad as you seem to think.

 

[H-O-G]

I play a aggro marth. One thing that I've learned iz that marth's sourspots lead into tippers and very reliable combo strings. The hit lag from tipper is not a problem bcz most of the time my opponent is stunned or moved back far enough for me 2 b safe.
Hero King iz my main
Lucina iz my waifu
Roy iz my boy

 

[LightLV]

Then clearly you haven't even tried to explore the character. If you had youd know there are many little things that not only set her apart, but actually work out better for her in some scenarios. Add to the fact she seems tohave more unexploredunexplored combo potential than Marth. She is definitely worth the practice, if only to pull her out versus other spacers Marth has a hard time tipping. Definitely not as bad as you seem to think.

I never said she was bad. I said she is objectively worse than Marth. I don't think there's a Lucina player alive that hasn't tried to explore whatever would-be differences she has with Marth. She isn't underexplored, she's just under equipped.

No amount of little 1% damage difference is going to matter the moment you land a strike that would have tippered if you were Marth. Or would have killed if you were Marth. Or would have connected if you were Marth. This rarely ever happens in vice versa, and when it does, it's not at %s that make it worth the trouble to call it a reliable advantage over him.

That's just how Lucina is. She's just Marth without the key character mechanic that makes him...well, good. At least in previous games.

 

[sunfallSeraph]

I see a lot of the same old tired Marth vs. Lucina stuff that's been going since day 1, but not a lot of actual discussion on the ramifications of the patch changes. Can we maybe get some hard data on what true combos now at what percents, what new mixups Lucina has, new kill %'s for Dolphin Slash (oh thank Naga I can stop making a fool of myself with Crescent Slash...)? I think that would be more productive than these tired, unhelpful debates. If people want the facts about character differences, I believe there's already a stickied thread for that anyways. :b

 

[Nah]

I see a lot of the same old tired Marth vs. Lucina stuff that's been going since day 1, but not a lot of actual discussion on the ramifications of the patch changes. Can we maybe get some hard data on what true combos now at what percents, what new mixups Lucina has, new kill %'s for Dolphin Slash (oh thank Naga I can stop making a fool of myself with Crescent Slash...)? I think that would be more productive than these tired, unhelpful debates. If people want the facts about character differences, I believe there's already a stickied thread for that anyways. :b

I think the only thing that legitimately true combos from Jab 1 is just Jab 2. But that might need to get tested some.

But I tested out when Dolphin Slash kills with Lucina, and it's ~140% at the edge and ~170% center stage. On the 3DS version anyway. And idk what percentages it used to kill at pre-patch though cuz I almost never used Dolphin Slash to kill so idk how much of an improvement there was.

 

[sunfallSeraph]

I think the only thing that legitimately true combos from Jab 1 is just Jab 2. But that might need to get tested some.

But I tested out when Dolphin Slash kills with Lucina, and it's ~140% at the edge and ~170% center stage. On the 3DS version anyway. And idk what percentages it used to kill at pre-patch though cuz I almost never used Dolphin Slash to kill so idk how much of an improvement there was.

Yeah, that's what I was seeing too. I couldn't get a true practice mode combo out of jab 1 to anything else. I'd be interested to know how many frames the opponent has to actually react though, since they're so close it seems like at least DB will frame trap beautifully. If they air dodge, at least, jumps or combo-breaker moves may be more trouble to deal with. But yeah, it looks like DS kills really well now, and it makes for another mix-up out of jab. Is there a true combo from anything into Up B at kill %'s? Probably not, but it doesn't hurt to check...

 

[Wnyke]

Yeah, that's what I was seeing too. I couldn't get a true practice mode combo out of jab 1 to anything else. I'd be interested to know how many frames the opponent has to actually react though, since they're so close it seems like at least DB will frame trap beautifully. If they air dodge, at least, jumps or combo-breaker moves may be more trouble to deal with. But yeah, it looks like DS kills really well now, and it makes for another mix-up out of jab. Is there a true combo from anything into Up B at kill %'s? Probably not, but it doesn't hurt to check...

Nair can true combo into up special at kill percents... I tested on mario and it killed him around 128% in the starting position...
Also any opponent hit by jab1 cant escape a forward tilt in time with any option at around 70% or more even though it doesnt register as a true combo...

 

[sunfallSeraph]

Nair can true combo into up special at kill percents... I tested on mario and it killed him around 128% in the starting position...
Also any opponent hit by jab1 cant escape a forward tilt in time with any option at around 70% or more even though it doesnt register as a true combo...

Yeah, I knew about first-hit Nair from playing with Roy this week, but I couldn't get it to register as true very often. Good to know that it does indeed work.