1.0.6: How will he get nerfed, and how do you want it?

[WhiteMageBD]

Give his down throw more knockback so it won't combo into uair at kill percents. Shiek and Rosa have to make a read to kill an opponent at kill percents with an uair that was from a grab. why should diddy have an auto kill grab- uair if the opponents doesn't di

 

[gameprodigy12]

I never said she couldn't be dealt with I just pointed out the idea that she's not campy is wrong

Well saying I'm wrong that she isn't campy is wrong too cause either there evidence to support that or not. She doesn't stand on the other side of the stage to zone, she has to be at the range she can do it and zone and space from there. Zoning/spacing =/= campy. The only way she can camp is by literally only standing at a corner and spam the only spamable projectile in customs and continue using it. Even then it's the player not the character and Rosalina isn't the only one who timed out during the 5 minute timer mistake were as data showed zero timeouts in 6 minute matches w/ or without customs. The farthest a Rosalina can go is defensive but she's both aggressive and defensive but campy isn't one of them.

 

[WhiteMageBD]

The only acceptable nerfs.

Also, give diddy's f-air more endlag so that you can't spam that move freely all the time

 

[Diddy Kong]

Also, give diddy's f-air more endlag so that you can't spam that move freely all the time

NO!

 

[pikazz]

NO!

I love that gif to that post. but thats sadly the truth. Diddys wins over some match up solidy on spamming Fair so I do see it as a neccesary nerf together with UAir. (with nerf means either its kill power or its spamness or both in more serious matter)

but here, have funny face.

 

[Smog Frog]

i dont expect diddy to be nerfed much at all. his design and tools are strong but not overpowering. tbh the only necessary nerfs are fair and uair.

 

[Braydon]

Diddy weighs to much. Needs weight nerf.

 

[WhiteMageBD]

NO!

Yes dude yes, you need to get good and utilize his other aierals instead of using fair all the time with no punish. Its called mix ups. if you can't live with that nerf, then you should stop playing seriously.

 

[Quillion]

I think Diddy needs a weight increase to about Mario's level. That way, even though he has deadly combos, he's more susceptible to combos himself.

 

[Diddy Kong]

F Air is already weaker than in Brawl, it was always one of Diddy's best moves. If N Air would be buffed, I would have no problems with it though. But asking for both U Air and F Air nerfs is too much. Why won't you just get gud and learn how to deal with the move?

 

[Braydon]

I think Diddy needs a weight increase to about Mario's level. That way, even though he has deadly combos, he's more susceptible to combos himself.

Increasing his weight would be a buff. Making it harder to launch him more than makes up for increased combo vulnerability. The reason heavies get comboed so much is because of their large hitbox not because weights bad.

F Air is already weaker than in Brawl, it was always one of Diddy's best moves. If N Air would be buffed, I would have no problems with it though. But asking for both U Air and F Air nerfs is too much. Why won't you just get gud and learn how to deal with the move?

What a surprise the guy named Diddy kong wants diddy to stay op...

 

[WhiteMageBD]

get good my butt, you need to get good if you can't win without spamming the same move over again without a punish. Rosalina got like a dozen nerfs and im still doing well with her. Saying that diddy will get destroyed after just two nerfs shows that you are a novice player

 

[Teran]

Diddy is fine and should be left alone

 

[WhiteMageBD]

says the guy that mains diddy. you know hes broken, stop hiding facts. solid moves, safe fair and auto kill grabs is unbalanced. even competetive players know hes unbalanced

 

[Braydon]

Diddy is fine and should be left alone

Quite the persuasive argument you've got there.

 

[Teran]

solid moves

Wow solid moves definitely OP

safe fair

A move that's safe when it's well spaced is not broken

and auto kill grabs is unbalanced.

First of all no they're not, second of all it's not even auto kill because you can DI out comfortably before you even reach kill %

even competetive players know hes unbalanced

Competitive players is a very broad term and a large number of people who fall under that umbrella don't actually have any mind for balance, design, or competition.

 

[Baby_Sneak]

I challenge anyone who thinks diddy is broken to list the number of diddys in top 8 at the lastest major tourny.

 

[Braydon]

I challenge anyone who thinks diddy is broken to list the number of diddys in top 8 at the lastest major tourny.

I challenge you to explain to me why I care. If there were no diddys, cool it was a fluke. It's not the kind of thing that would regularly happen, and one tournament proves nothing at all. One tournament is not a big enough sample size to overcome random chance.

 

[Baby_Sneak]

I challenge you to explain to me why I care. If there were no diddys, cool it was a fluke. It's not the kind of thing that would regularly happen, and one tournament proves nothing at all. One tournament is not a big enough sample size to overcome random chance.

I said major. As in, big time players. WHOBO

 

[Quillion]

Again, I'd prefer if Diddy was just barely changed. I think small change is the best change.

Tone down knockback growth on u-air, but leave everything else as is.

Then buff everyone else.

 

[W.A.C.]

The good way to balance Diddy Kong:
Reduce knockback to his up air, reduce knockback to his forward smash, modify his down throw so it isn't as easy to get an up air kill but still make it possible, and maybe reduce the priority to his side special kick. You would have a very fun A tier character that's still combo heavy but not over-powered.

The lousy way to balance Diddy Kong:
Add lots of lag to his aerials to make him less able to do combos and be way more punishable. Let's just do this to every top tier character so we have way less possible combos and followups. Also further nerf his bananas to where they can only be thrown once and make his peanuts even slower so his camp options are even more limited, so he's forced to be even more aggressive in this game but beyond punishable with much of his aerials forcing him to rely mostly on ground based attacks. Sounds fun?

I highly doubt they'll go the route in my "lousy way" example, but if that did happen, that would suck. He's supposed to be a fast character with good aggressive and camp options. Considering how Mew Two did a down throw up smash combo in the recent Mew Two trailer, I can't imagine Diddy's combo game going to utter hell.

 

[SphericalCrusher]

I don't want anyone to get nerfed... I hate balance patches. People need to learn to solve their problems instead of getting Nintendo to patch them out. Diddy is beatable. A minor nerf would not hurt... but we all know it won't be that easy.

 

[ddonaldo]

What about if the only change was to his grab range, lets say make it like robins. He has tools that make grabbing easy enough and grabbing an opponent is very rewarding so like most fighting games make the main tool harder to land but keep the reward for doing it.
e.g. Gouken is sf4, he gets so much out of a back throw, so capcom made it have more frames to tech out of it since he could get a free ultra

 

[Braydon]

I said major. As in, big time players. WHOBO

And that proves diddy isn't top tier how? Again one tourney is not enough evidence.

 

[Teran]

And that proves diddy isn't top tier how? Again one tourney is not enough evidence.

Nobody's saying he isn't a top tier character, the issue is that being top tier =/= broken as a lot of newer Smash players seem to think.

There will always be top tier characters, and they will always dominate tournament results. This has been the case for competitive games since they've been a thing.

 

[Braydon]

Nobody's saying he isn't a top tier character, the issue is that being top tier =/= broken as a lot of newer Smash players seem to think.

There will always be top tier characters, and they will always dominate tournament results. This has been the case for competitive games since they've been a thing.

But diddy has broken matchups where he has almost guaranteed wins.

 

[Quickhero]

But diddy has broken matchups where he has almost guaranteed wins.

Please tell me the match-up(s) where Diddy goes 70-30 or higher? (With customs on, preferably) Those match-ups are basically guaranteed wins, but from what I see, Diddy Kong only has a noticeable advantage against a lot of characters. An advantage? Yeah. Almost guaranteed win? Definitely not.

I have yet to see a character (with customs on, at least) that loses to Diddy Kong so hard that he prevents said character from being viable. There is a reason why almost every character is able to have decent success at a tournament level.

 

[Teran]

But diddy has broken matchups where he has almost guaranteed wins.

That's more to do with those characters being horrendously bad, they're disadvantaged against the majority of the cast. Diddy, with a moveset that cohesively ties together many fundamentals, pisses on such characters.

That doesn't make Diddy broken as a character, for winning matchups due to solid fundamentals. If a character's moveset is so bad that they have no viable way to avoid being grabbed, they were never going to win a tournament anyway.

 

[erico9001]

Death to the hoo hah!!

 

[WhiteMageBD]

(A move that's safe when it's well spaced is not broken)

Say what you will, f-air is getting nerfed for being an abusable safe move. Look at what happen to rosalina nair for being a spammy safe move, they made the hitbox smaller, it has less knockback and does less damage

 

[HeavyLobster]

But diddy has broken matchups where he has almost guaranteed wins.

Not really. Diddy beats a ton of characters like 60-40, but has very few MUs more polarizing than that, and those that are are against characters who just aren't any good. Sheik on the other hand is far more polarizing, as her design straight up takes a dump on zoners, most heavies, and anyone who's prone to gimps. Diddy is consistently good against everyone and his reward is a bit better than it should be, but he has nothing which straight up invalidates an otherwise capable character.

 

[SpandexBullets]

Honestly, I think Diddy's sole nerf should be that his down throw gives vertical knockback, so that backair followups at 60 are really the extent of its usefulness.
To compensate for this, he should be able to chaingrab the entire cast (including sandbag) to oblivion. His up air should come out on frame ZeRo, cancel into itself (as spamable as brawl metaknights) and be able to carry opponents from 0 - 70%. His primary kill move should be side-B, which gains super armor and transcendent priority, as well as a hitbox as big as Ike's final smash. Talk to any serious Diddy main, they will not disagree with what I'm saying.

And his banana sets you on fire.

but I think Shiek is #1.

(I think my first point makes sense tho.)

 

[Wintropy]

I don't think the case is helped by people treating the "Diddy is broken" mantra as gospel. By contrast, telling others to "git gud" isn't really a sufficient counter-argument.

We'll see how it goes when the patch actually occurs. Either way, it should definitely make things more interesting across the board, so I'm happy. :3

 

[Braydon]

I don't think the case is helped by people treating the "Diddy is broken" mantra as gospel. By contrast, telling others to "git gud" isn't really a sufficient counter-argument.

We'll see how it goes when the patch actually occurs. Either way, it should definitely make things more interesting across the board, so I'm happy. :3

Diddy is broken, git gud.

 

[O1DsLeNdYwHiTe]

Okay, couple of things here for both sides of the argument, because I'm considerably neutral when it comes to this whole Diddy thing.

First of all, the "get good" arguments is of irrelevancy to both sides of the cause, not to mention it contradicts the intentional points that are trying to be taken into consideration altogether. So uh, yeah, stop utilizing it. It doesn't solve nor prove anything. If you're going to defend or attack a certain character in a situation like this, provide factual evidence or relatable points to support that said cause. Don't just complain, whine, and repeat the same thing you implied in a previous post over and over again, just because you have this false impression that it's benefiting your opinion when it's only driving people away from agreement even more. The sound of a broken record isn't going to prevent nor encourage the nerfing of Diddy.

Here's all I inquire, and rebuttal if you must. Just nerf the outrageous kill potential of u-air...that's it. That's all I'm asking. Is that too much to ask? Or is the game going to be "boring as ----" just because one move is nerfed in start up or kill potential? I don't see that being logical at all, but I'm not of any noticeable authority so, what do I know?

I don't mind the fair pressure, it's an effective tool, and far from being of uair's stature. I don't want Diddy to be obliterated to the bottom of the tier list like some people seem to want. What needs to be taken into consideration is what will satisfy both sides of the spectrum not just what will benefit "you". I can understand at a competitive level, it's normal and at times acceptable to want your character to be at top level, but sometimes you have to be considerate of other players whether you agree with it or not. That goes for the opposing side as well.

Diddy has plenty of other kill options other than uair, nerfing it won't cripple him as a character. You'll just have to work a bit harder. But that's okay, if one's as dedicated to a character as they claim, then they'll stick with the character and put forth that effort, right?

 

[WhiteMageBD]

Okay, couple of things here for both sides of the argument, because I'm considerably neutral when it comes to this whole Diddy thing.

First of all, the "get good" arguments is of irrelevancy to both sides of the cause, not to mention it contradicts the intentional points that are trying to be taken into consideration altogether. So uh, yeah, stop utilizing it. It doesn't solve nor prove anything. If you're going to defend or attack a certain character in a situation like this, provide factual evidence or relatable points to support that said cause. Don't just complain, whine, and repeat the same thing you implied in a previous post over and over again, just because you have this false impression that it's benefiting your opinion when it's only driving people away from agreement even more. The sound of a broken record isn't going to prevent nor encourage the nerfing of Diddy.

Here's all I inquire, and rebuttal if you must. Just nerf the outrageous kill potential of u-air...that's it. That's all I'm asking. Is that too much to ask? Or is the game going to be "boring as ----" just because one move is nerfed in start up or kill potential? I don't see that being logical at all, but I'm not of any noticeable authority so, what do I know?

I don't mind the fair pressure, it's an effective tool, and far from being of uair's stature. I don't want Diddy to be obliterated to the bottom of the tier list like some people seem to want. What needs to be taken into consideration is what will satisfy both sides of the spectrum not just what will benefit "you". I can understand at a competitive level, it's normal and at times acceptable to want your character to be at top level, but sometimes you have to be considerate of other players whether you agree with it or not. That goes for the opposing side as well.

Diddy has plenty of other kill options other than uair, nerfing it won't cripple him as a character. You'll just have to work a bit harder. But that's okay, if one's as dedicated to a character as they claim, then they'll stick with the character and put forth that effort, right?

im not saying to nerf him to near uselessness. just give him the rosalina treatment. Rosalina is still high tier despite being nerf the hardest. Plus, diddy is way too easy to learn, he shouldn't be any higher than high tier to begin with because of the low learning curve. Dabuz said that in a texas tournament had 75% of the players play as diddy. Thats a problem in it by itself. Diddy needs more weaknesses to compensate for his low skill ceiling. So it forces people to play with other characters.

 

[Braydon]

im not saying to nerf him to near uselessness. just give him the rosalina treatment. Rosalina is still high tier despite being nerf the hardest. Plus, diddy is way too easy to learn, he shouldn't be any higher than high tier to begin with because of the low learning curve. Dabuz said that in a texas tournament had 75% of the players play as diddy. Thats a problem in it by itself. Diddy needs more weaknesses to compensate for his low skill ceiling. So it forces people to play with other characters.

Why are you bothering? You must know they know that, they're just apposing diddy nerfs because they want an unfair advantage.

 

[WhiteMageBD]

Why are you bothering? You must know they know that, they're just apposing diddy nerfs because they want an unfair advantage.

Just responding to O1DsLeNdYwHiTe point.

 

[O1DsLeNdYwHiTe]

im not saying to nerf him to near uselessness. just give him the rosalina treatment. Rosalina is still high tier despite being nerf the hardest. Plus, diddy is way too easy to learn, he shouldn't be any higher than high tier to begin with because of the low learning curve. Dabuz said that in a texas tournament had 75% of the players play as diddy. Thats a problem in it by itself. Diddy needs more weaknesses to compensate for his low skill ceiling. So it forces people to play with other characters.

That's why I inquire they nerf either the kill power of the uair, slow it down, or alter it in someway to hinder it still useful and effective but a tad bit more difficult to hit. And I've noticed everytime it's brought up ( even if the d-throw wasn't even mentioned... :I for whatever reason. ) they say "just di". Yes, that is what you're supposed to do, that is what you should be doing. If you're not, that's the opponent of Diddy's own fault. So before its twisted, I'm not talking about the imfamous HOO HAA, I'm talking about the uair in general. Just stomping a mudhole in any broken record responses ahead of time.

Diddy's a fundamentally well-versed character, he can afford to lose a bit of uair capiabilities and still have a spot at the top.

 

[Apollyon]

That's why inquire they nerf either the kill power of the uair, slow it down, or alter it in someway to hinder it still useful and effective but a tad bit more difficult to hit. And I've noticed everytime it's brought up ( even if the d-throw wasn't even mentioned... :I for whatever reason. ) they say "just di". Yes, that is what you're supposed to do, that is what you should be doing. If you're not, that's the opponent of Diddy's own fault. So before its twisted, I'm not talking about the imfamous HOO HAA, I'm talking about the uair in general. Just stomping a mudhole in any broken record responses ahead of time.

Diddy's a fundamentally well-versed character, he can afford to lose a bit of uair capiabilities and still have a spot at the top.

Thank you, someone with some brains.

I have dabbled in Diddy quite a lot ever since the infamous "Hoo Hah" was created. Took me exactly 5 minutes after watching that clip to DI out of it. I've said this once on another thread, and I will say it again: Diddy is a grappling character. Yes, he has options for projectiles, but his main form of damage is, and always will be grappling. Yes, Diddy can lose power off of his u-air without much problems, however all that would accomplish is satisfying those who do not want to learn how to fight Diddy.

If you are fighting Diddy and get grabbed constantly, then that is on you. Don't want to be grabbed? Play a spacing character and bait out Diddy's moves. For instance, I like playing Marth against all Diddy's simply because if he tries to run up and grab, I can side B into him for 20%. Diddy tries to Monkey Flip? then I jump F-air his face, follow up with either side-B or grab.

TL:DR The answer is not to "git gud" but to understand the weaknesses of a character. Diddy is not broken. If anyone thinks Diddy is broken, all I will say is:

"Brawl Meta Knight"