1.0.6: How will he get nerfed, and how do you want it?

[Quillion]

The good way to balance Diddy Kong:
Reduce knockback to his up air, reduce knockback to his forward smash, modify his down throw so it isn't as easy to get an up air kill but still make it possible, and maybe reduce the priority to his side special kick. You would have a very fun A tier character that's still combo heavy but not over-powered.

The lousy way to balance Diddy Kong:
Add lots of lag to his aerials to make him less able to do combos and be way more punishable. Let's just do this to every top tier character so we have way less possible combos and followups. Also further nerf his bananas to where they can only be thrown once and make his peanuts even slower so his camp options are even more limited, so he's forced to be even more aggressive in this game but beyond punishable with much of his aerials forcing him to rely mostly on ground based attacks. Sounds fun?

I highly doubt they'll go the route in my "lousy way" example, but if that did happen, that would suck. He's supposed to be a fast character with good aggressive and camp options. Considering how Mew Two did a down throw up smash combo in the recent Mew Two trailer, I can't imagine Diddy's combo game going to utter hell.

My God, yes!!!

Jesus, people. All of you need to hack your Wii and install Melee: SD Remix right now. THAT is the way a game should be balanced: SUBTLE changes.

 

[O1DsLeNdYwHiTe]

"Brawl Meta Knight"

 

[AnchorTea]

Super-duper-simple answer: Get rid of HOO HAH and slightly decrease damage and knockback on all moves.

 

[Quillion]

Super-duper-simple answer: Get rid of HOO HAH and slightly decrease damage and knockback on all moves.

Again with this.

No. KEEP the hoo hah. Reduce U-air knockback growth so that it's ONLY a combo move and NOT A FINISHER.

 

[W.A.C.]

im not saying to nerf him to near uselessness. just give him the rosalina treatment. Rosalina is still high tier despite being nerf the hardest. Plus, diddy is way too easy to learn, he shouldn't be any higher than high tier to begin with because of the low learning curve. Dabuz said that in a texas tournament had 75% of the players play as diddy. Thats a problem in it by itself. Diddy needs more weaknesses to compensate for his low skill ceiling. So it forces people to play with other characters.

I'd argue they over nerfed Rosalina. If any of the high tier characters should've been the best, she was the best candidate because she had the highest learning curve. They did a much better job with Shiek's nerfs because they focused more on nerfing her fantastic killing power for a character that was fast with an amazing recovery than messing with her frame data. They did add more end lag to her needle storm though. I honestly wouldn't mind if they reverted some of her nerfs in the next balance patch that involved the unnecessary end lag increase for some of her moves. I'm just really worried they'll mess with Diddy's frame data and I do not want that to happen. If they nerfed his killing power to where players have to put more effort into getting the kills and rely more on combos than overall strength, I'm fine with that as long as they don't go overboard. Way too many characters had their frame data messed with in the last balance patch, which was completely unnecessary. For example, some people thought Yoshi's dash attack and down air were too OP, so they added more lag to the moves which hurt his combo game and made him his aerial options less safe. Those nerfs sucked.

 

[HeavyLobster]

I'd argue they over nerfed Rosalina. If any of the high tier characters should've been the best, she was the best candidate because she had the highest learning curve. They did a much better job with Shiek's nerfs because they focused more on nerfing her fantastic killing power for a character that was fast with an amazing recovery than messing with her frame data. They did add more end lag to her needle storm though. I honestly wouldn't mind if they reverted some of her nerfs in the next balance patch that involved the unnecessary end lag increase for some of her moves. I'm just really worried they'll mess with Diddy's frame data and I do not want that to happen. If they nerfed his killing power to where players have to put more effort into getting the kills and rely more on combos than overall strength, I'm fine with that as long as they don't go overboard. Way too many characters had their frame data messed with in the last balance patch, which was completely unnecessary. For example, some people thought Yoshi's dash attack and down air were too OP, so they added more lag to the moves which hurt his combo game and made him his aerial options less safe. Those nerfs sucked.

Can't say that Rosa was overnerfed when she's still top 5 and has polarized matchups against a number of characters. You can reasonably argue that they went about nerfing her in the wrong way while leaving some of her more polarizing attributes(GravPull) intact, but if the goal of a balance patch is to make all characters reasonably close in viability while minimizing polarizing matchups there are still aspects of Rosa that would need to be toned down. As far as Diddy goes, his Uair's frame data is absurd, and at the very least it needs more endlag and a hitbox nerf. Its kill power is good but not overwhelming, and the real problem is that it creates braindead frametraps at kill % rather than it killing too early. Reduced KB would just make it combo better, and it wouldn't mean much if it can't kill if you can get to kill %s for free with it and then just Banana -> FSmash. As is simply being above Diddy means free damage regardless of reads, and considering how easy it is for Diddy to put you in that situation, I don't see any way to reasonably balance Diddy without changing Uair's frame data.

 

[SpandexBullets]

Yeah, I'm sorry, but Diddy mains who openly complain about his weaknesses...want to win and not get **** for it. Any weakness that he has, is a taste of true flaws experienced by every other character in the cast.
I have yet to see an accurate way to intercept his recovery except for nairing offstage and not dying, as diddy usually dips below the camera line to charge his recovery, meaning intercepting is not a safe option.

His recovery is not bad - it's a Space animal recovery, except you can direct the Up - B, use it instantly for shorter distance and the side-B is far better. It's average, very average.

If you really believe he has blindspots and weaknesses like recovery, why do all Diddy mirrors end in vertical kills and not an assault on these weaknesses? Don't be an apologist for the character if you just want to main him without feeling bad, it was the same **** with Meta Knight early on. I'm not saying he's that advantageous; a skillful player can counter a skillful player, but watching smashers play their mains, lose a match, and then switch to Diddy while commentators try not to mention the fact that this player is just using that same combo to score an easy win is a waste of time. Then, they keep talking about his issues with recovery because there is literally nothing to say about the match except if the opponent starts winning. That is a waste of time for the opponent as it's not the players actual skill, anyone watching who's interesting in picking up Smash 4 competitively, or good commentators who like the potential of the new cast but keep getting Diddy matches and go all silent when it's just up airs.

It's also bad for actual Diddy mains who feel bad because they liked the character so much in Brawl for his technical complexity, but it becomes obvious very early on that none of that actually matters as using that same simple combo garners results that are better in every way. He needs this nerf so they can succeed, whilst liking the character their maining as it truly shows their skill.

"Don't get grabbed" is like saying "Don't airdodge". It's a biggie when you don't want to get grabbed, and his d-tilt also launches at the same angle into up air strings. He is far, far too good.
However, it is fair to say that every other character hasn't been developed competitively yet...but Diddy wasn't developed at all. He was just easy, and if you want to win right now, there's no reason you should play anyone else. 20HH, everyone main Diddy, pick Smashville, and get that grab.

 

[SpandexBullets]

To nerf Diddy: make his d-throw much more vertical.
Probelm solved.

Less followups, easier DI, but still a viable combo that works.

 

[Pogoshark]

Let me start by saying I dont think Diddy is overpowered. He is a solid high tier character, no arguments, but Hoo-Hah is so easy to DI its embarrassing to be the person getting killed by it.
Now if Nintendo does nerf Diddy because everyone is crying wolf I think they will change the trajectory of downthrow to be more like Sonics down throw (horizontal and gives them the option to tech)

This will absolutely neuter Diddy early game damage strings and ruin his already escapable throw combo.
I really hope it doesnt happen, but it seems like the easiest quick fix for Nintendo to make Diddy bad.


As for a fair nerf I would give Diddy, I would have it so his Uair doent hit under him, and probably his weight reduced, he doesnt need more than that.

 

[O1DsLeNdYwHiTe]

Let me start by saying I dont think Diddy is overpowered. He is a solid high tier character, no arguments, but Hoo-Hah is so easy to DI its embarrassing to be the person getting killed by it.
Now if Nintendo does nerf Diddy because everyone is crying wolf I think they will change the trajectory of downthrow to be more like Sonics down throw (horizontal and gives them the option to tech)

This will absolutely neuter Diddy early game damage strings and ruin his already escapable throw combo.
I really hope it doesnt happen, but it seems like the easiest quick fix for Nintendo to make Diddy bad.


As for a fair nerf I would give Diddy, I would have it so his Uair doent hit under him, and probably his weight reduced, he doesnt need more than that.

I don't think Diddy is overpowered or broken. That uair just needs to be toned down a bit. I honestly don't think that's too much to ask at least, that's all I want, and I view that as keeping Diddy a top character with all of his other solid options and fundamentals, and a small balancing tweak that will satisfy the other players to some extent. I can't speak for everyone else cause I'm not aware of everyone's personal desires and opinions, but I don't really see any reason for that receiving excessive rebuttlement.

Let's just move on, post material on our boards that actually pertain to the development of the character's meta rather than constant rants on why the character is or isn't cheap, and await what Sakurai considers a "balance patch".

 

[Quillion]

I don't think Diddy is overpowered or broken. That uair just needs to be toned down a bit. I honestly don't think that's too much to ask at least, that's all I want, and I view that as keeping Diddy a top character with all of his other solid options and fundamentals, and a small balancing tweak that will satisfy the other players to some extent. I can't speak for everyone else cause I'm not aware of everyone's personal desires and opinions, but I don't really see any reason for that receiving excessive rebuttlement.

Let's just move on, post material on our boards that actually pertain to the development of the character's meta rather than constant rants on why the character is or isn't cheap, and await what Sakurai considers a "balance patch".

I wouldn't put it past Sakurai to appease the vocal minority, though (I'm surprised to see that most people on this thread are pretty reasonable).

Especially if there are a lot of Diddys on For Glory right now.

 

[Weeman]

I just think his Upair and Fair should be given less knockback so that they don't kill so early, that way Diddy would be like Pikachu and Sheik, very frame safe and technical character but has trouble getting kills.
The Hoo Hah would still be there but it would be strictly for percentage building combos, not kills.

 

[CSWooly]

The simplest way to nerf Diddy is make his D-Throw like it was in Brawl

 

[WhiteMageBD]

Ha, diddy fair uair, f smash, fair was nerfed. Told you guys so.

 

[Quickhero]

Ha, diddy fair uair, f smash, fair was nerfed. Told you guys so.

I don't really like being rude when making posts, but come on man, you should really make sure that your posts don't make you don't sound like a pretentious prick.

EVERYBODY saw a nerf to u-air and possibly f-smash, the question was how should it be handled. I think Sakurai handled it properly by making sure that hoohah is still a combo but doesn't kill. Yet so many people here were advocating for the death of hoohah because idk people don't like kill confirms?

You didn't "tell us" anything, it was the reasonable action and everyone expected a nerf to u-air.

 

[WhiteMageBD]

I don't really like being rude when making posts, but come on man, you should really make sure that your posts don't make you don't sound like a pretentious prick.

EVERYBODY saw a nerf to u-air and possibly f-smash, the question was how should it be handled. I think Sakurai handled it properly by making sure that hoohah is still a combo but doesn't kill. Yet so many people here were advocating for the death of hoohah because idk people don't like kill confirms?

You didn't "tell us" anything, it was the reasonable action and everyone expected a nerf to u-air.

I didn't mean to be rude to everyone, just the guy name diddy kong with the monkey avatar always boosting that diddy won't get his uair and f-air nerf. Plus his "git gud" comments are annoying.