1.0.6: How will he get nerfed, and how do you want it?

[warriorman222]

Obviously, Diddy is seen as the best character. We all know that.

So, in the Nintendo Direct, there was an announced 1,0,6 patch coming with balancing. Obviously Diddy will be nerfed simply for being the best character. So, the question is: How will he get nerfed, basing it off previous patches and logic? How should he be nerfed, in your opinion?

Since I made the thread, I may as well answer first:

How he will: He'll probably have his uair slowed down, his dthrow ruined, fair and bair weakened, and Banana and Monkey Flip will likely get nerfed too. It seems Sakurai's team likes to ruin every part of an overcentralizing effect, rather than one part.

How he should: Cut fair damage in half. and increase uair's startup by 10 frames, increase the endlag by 7. Double base knockback, increase knockback growth by a good amount. Launch opponents diagonaly up and behind him.There. now it's a read required to kill with more reward.

That's it. While I like the "NO NERFS!" Route, I'd rather just get rid of HOO HAH, then buff everyone else.

How would you guys nerf Diddy? How do you think it would happen? Would you even nerf him at all?

 

[pershona]

I would make his recovery really awful and easy to gimp if i would have to nerf him.

 

[Diddy Kong]

How I want Diddy nerfed: not.

 

[Creede]

I hope he isn't nerfed. It's sad when characters that really aren't OP get nerfed.

On the other hand, better nerf Greninja.

 

[guedes the brawler]

the diddy complainers are just sheep riding on the hoohaa hate train

 

[Narth]

the diddy complainers are just sheep riding on the hoohaa hate train

Not true. I think Diddy should be nerfed just a tiny bit, and then he can remain among the top characters without the hate. I don't want him to be obliterated. No one does.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

It's hard to say how he should get nerfed. The primary reason Diddy is so good is because his moveset is so coherently constructed and above average. Nerf just one move, and you've still got plenty more moves that can replace it, especially regarding his aerials. For instance, if you toned down Fair's KO potential, Diddy only needs to switch to RAR Bair.

Regarding Diddy's Uair, the strength of the attack is in the frame 3 hitbox. This move is the go to not just for true combo followups out of Dthrow, but for combo breaking. In addition, since there is no sourspot present with the move, it's clear that this is an attack that's easy to land. What I would do is not tone down its excellent Knockback growth, but tone down the damage it deals. Remember that knockback in Smash 4 depends both on values and the damage dealt. Uair deals 8% and can combo into itself at low percents. I want to see this toned down as far as 5%. This will result in the move killing at later percents, and giving less hitstun so that it wouldn't combo into itself at very early percents. Remember that this is an easy and common attack to land, so the reward should be smaller than other moves.

I'd also like to see D tilt have more end lag. Though that may be just me being salty. The move does have a 20% chance to trip and comes out on frame 4 with about as much range as his slower Ftilt. With his poor jab and slow Ftilt, this easily makes it Diddy's best poke in neutral (at least as far as staying on the ground). Without a banana in hand, Diddy can be fairly susceptible to close quarters combat on the ground, unless he spams that Dtilt. I kind of want to take this from him. More end lag on the Dtilt will make it still a great answer to being pressured, but also be unsafe on shield. As it is now, you cannot shield grab this move, unless you got a perfect shield, which is easier said than done when you are on the attack.

I personally think Diddy's Monkey Flip is hard to punish, particularly when used at the right height. With his super crawl potential out of a short hopped monkey flip, that air to ground mobility with no lag is just a little absurd in my eyes. I would tweak Monkey flip so that the transition point where the move "auto cancels" into a normal falling state be pushed back at least 10 frames or so. Whatever it takes so that Diddy cannot perform this trick without the aid of platforms or with a single jump. I love super crawl as an advanced technique, but I don't like it being performed so freely with Diddy Kong. By taking this away, Monkey Flip will be a more reasonable move to punish as he lands on the ground, and thus not used as much.

 

[Quillion]

Really, just make his up-air have less knockback growth and a bit more base knockback.

As a Diddy main, I want the Hoo Haa to be kept as a nice bread-and-butter plus the ability to continue it if you have the skill. But I have to admit that it kills way too early on all characters.

 

[Wintropy]

Just make it slightly more difficult to kill with Hoo-Ha and decrease the range of Monkey Flip. I'd be content with that.

I stand by my assertion that Diddy is not overpowered or broken, but I do think a bit of balance would go a long way. He doesn't need a major overhaul, just a few subtle tweaks.

 

[Quillion]

Just make it slightly more difficult to kill with Hoo-Ha and decrease the range of Monkey Flip. I'd be content with that.

I stand by my assertion that Diddy is not overpowered or broken, but I do think a bit of balance would go a long way. He doesn't need a major overhaul, just a few subtle tweaks.

Indeed, small change is the best change.

 

[Meek Moths]

so the real problem here is up air. this sole move is breaking the metagame. I support fast and smart play like in melee, but the uair just flat out wreaks havoc in smash4. it's very fast, combo move, kill move, can be used after hard to DI down throw...it's just too much. I would definitely tone it down a litttle.

then I'd give diddy aids

 

[Mahgnittoc]

TBH, the top 10 all have very similar traits to Diddy yet they aren't being cried about. I'd make U-air like from 12 and increase the ending lag on it so it isn't so free to use. This will stop u-air to u-air while at the same time not nerfing the damage/knockback. D-throw to U-air isn't a problem, it's a set-up. After Slightly tweaking U-air I'd make him slightly lighter. This forces Diddy to pick his trades.

 

[Luigi player]

Just a little nerf would suffice in making him less "easy to play and win with".
Like a few more frames (~3) lag after the dthrow, a later autocancel for his uair, more base knockback for uair but less knockback growth so early combos aren't as "braindead" and later it won't be an easy KO really early.

Most of Diddys problems are just players not knowing how to play against him. If you do he becomes a reasonable character, but of course a very strong one. A small nerf would help most players deal with him more easily and still leave him as a very good character which he should be.

 

[pikazz]

how I want diddy to be nerfed:
- UAirs Killing power so it cant kill. longer start up and endlag
- FAir less killing power, longer endlag
- BAir, 2-4 frames slower start up
- Dthrow being send diagonally backwards instead for straight upwards, can have the same power and endlag
- Remove his Smash SideB or put him in Special Fall after use
- 5-7 frames extra endlag on DownB
- 10 frames extra endlag on B
- Side Smash has 7 frames extra endlag
- Down Smash deals little less %
- DTilt has 4-5 extra endlag
- decrease his weight, he is too heavy for being a chimp

 

[Creede]

how I want diddy to be nerfed:
- UAirs Killing power so it cant kill. longer start up and endlag
- FAir less killing power, longer endlag
- BAir, 2-4 frames slower start up
- Dthrow being send diagonally backwards instead for straight upwards, can have the same power and endlag
- Remove his Smash SideB or put him in Special Fall after use
- 5-7 frames extra endlag on DownB
- 10 frames extra endlag on B
- Side Smash has 7 frames extra endlag
- Down Smash deals little less %
- DTilt has 4-5 extra endlag
- decrease his weight, he is too heavy for being a chimp

What I got from this was "Make a good character bad."

Diddy isn't OP guys... He is good, but not OP. Just play safe around him, no matter what character you use.

 

[HeavyLobster]

Uair's startup should be slowed by a couple frames, its endlag should also be increased, and its hitbox should be nerfed, mainly horizontally/below him. It should still be fast and powerful, but shouldn't frametrap or hit below him. Fair's damage should be reduced by 1% and maybe come out slightly slower. Uair doesn't need to come out frame 12, somewhere between frame 5-7 would be fine with actual endlag and modest hitbox nerfs. Dashgrab can also come out a frame slower and have a couple extra frames of endlag. Diddy's not broken, but toning down his bread & butter a bit would bring him more in line with the rest of the cast.

 

[ミスティック Speed]

Nerf the majority of his air attacks. He should be good after that. His ground game is completely fine as is, imo.

 

[Quickhero]

Nerf his U-air slightly so he cannot kill-confirm until the opponent is at around 120-135% on average and maybe increase start-up on Monkey Flip so it's a bit more punishable and everything should be good.

Significantly nerfing a top tier character that ONLY has low risk - high reward, rather than someone that actually completely controls the metagame and makes it so a lot of the cast is unviable simply because of the character existing seems way over the top (Meta Knight in Brawl did this, Diddy Kong does not whatsoever) and completely detached from reason.

 

[Dre89]

Nerf his U-air slightly so he cannot kill-confirm until the opponent is at around 120-135% on average and maybe increase start-up on Monkey Flip so it's a bit more punishable and everything should be good.

Significantly nerfing a top tier character that ONLY has low risk - high reward, rather than someone that actually completely controls the metagame and makes it so a lot of the cast is unviable simply because of the character existing seems way over the top (Meta Knight in Brawl did this, Diddy Kong does not whatsoever) and completely detached from reason.

He can't kill confirm on anyone above 90%.

Anyone getting 'kill confirmed' at 120% off a throw isn't DIing correctly.

 

[Nabbitnator]

Diddy has other ways to kill so i think just up air should be nerfed and just turned into a combo tool. He can kill with fair and his smashes.

 

[Shanoa]

I don't use Diddy but I think that he is not an overpowered character by any means and I won't get salty whenever I fight one in a tournament.

As a Rosalina main, I know how bad it feels when your character takes a heavy nerf (Rosalina was nerfed the most in the first balance patch, and the Luma respawn timer increase hurt us so badly because we're designed to rely on Luma).

Diddy is obviously going to end up like Rosalina but these are the only changes I think should happen:

-Uair startup increased
-Fair damage and knockback decrease
-Bair damage decrease

Imo, these are the only things that need changes to tone down his airgame reasonably. Monkey Flip, D-Tilt and Banana are just great, fair and punishable moves in his moveset and nerfing those too will hurt Diddy too much.

I wish you Diddy mains good luck in the 1.0.6. balance patch. Wish us Rosalina mains good luck too. I really hope the balance team thinks that our last nerf was good enough.

 

[Diddy Kong]

how I want diddy to be nerfed:
- UAirs Killing power so it cant kill. longer start up and endlag
- FAir less killing power, longer endlag
- BAir, 2-4 frames slower start up
- Dthrow being send diagonally backwards instead for straight upwards, can have the same power and endlag
- Remove his Smash SideB or put him in Special Fall after use
- 5-7 frames extra endlag on DownB
- 10 frames extra endlag on B
- Side Smash has 7 frames extra endlag
- Down Smash deals little less %
- DTilt has 4-5 extra endlag
- decrease his weight, he is too heavy for being a chimp

How I want you to stop complaining / trying to ruin my main:
-Get gud

 

[pikazz]

How I want you to stop complaining / trying to ruin my main:
-Get gud

What I got from this was "Make a good character bad."

Diddy isn't OP guys... He is good, but not OP. Just play safe around him, no matter what character you use.

 

[Bob da Bob]

I'm not a diddy main but I have faced some good diddies and tbh I really don't see him as "broken" like many people say. Tbh I don't even think he is the best character in the game (definitely high tier though) but that is just my opinion. But since he is most probably going to get nerfed I would say just make up air and back air a bit slower and weaker.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Says the person who wants Diddy to be Zelda-bad...

Here, take a picture of Diddy instead.

 

[MrGame&Rock]

Give Diddy some very small nerfs, like decreasing the knockback growth on up air and maybe give it an extra 2 frames startup. Thats it. Then wait for the customs meta to develop and have the rest of the cast catch up

 

[Diddy Kong]

Give Diddy some very small nerfs, like decreasing the knockback growth on up air and maybe give it an extra 2 frames startup. Thats it. Then wait for the customs meta to develop and have the rest of the cast catch up

The only acceptable nerfs.

 

[FullMoon]

Really, just nerf his Up-Air and F-Air. Make so that Up-Air can't kill super early like it already can and make it less safe to throw around; and also make so that his F-Air has more landing lag so that Diddy can't wall characters off just by spamming F-Air.

Those are the one things that make Diddy a very abusive character and make him so easy to win with. The rest is fine. It's just those two moves that need to be toned down.

 

[pikazz]

Really, just nerf his Up-Air and F-Air. Make so that Up-Air can't kill super early like it already can and make it less safe to throw around; and also make so that his F-Air has more landing lag so that Diddy can't wall characters off just by spamming F-Air.

Those are the one things that make Diddy a very abusive character and make him so easy to win with. The rest is fine. It's just those two moves that need to be toned down.

this is the nerfs that I would love to happen, I want tho more nerfs, but these are a must and can live without the rest of the nerfs

 

[Zegend]

Honestly, I love that Diddy's top tier. His aggressive playstyle is the only thing keeping top competitive matches from being boring Rosalina campfests and Shiek dittos all over the place. He's actually one of the only top tier character actually fun to play against. Rock on, diddy nerds.
I think that he needs some startup lag on uair, and a couple frames of startup lag on dtilt and fair. That's honestly everything he needs to be balanced. Maybe a cooldown for spawning bananas. (7 seconds, maybe?)
I'd much rather someone like Sonic or Rosalina nerfed into the ground, but the idea is in everyone's heads that "DIDDY IS OP xxDddddd look at me guys i know everything about competitive smash, everyone else is fine but **** DIddY!! !! !", and I have a horrible feeling that Nintendo is gonna listen to that dumb opinion and completely ruin Diddy while keeping the other top tiers (Sonic, Rosalina, Luigi, Villager) nearly unchanged in the next balance patch.

 

[kirby3021]

I don't think Diddy is super OP and even though I don't play him, I like playing against him because it brings out my best game (if I want to have a chance). I think some minor nerfs to his aerials would leave him a great character without accusations of being OP.

 

[DungeonMaster]

My guess is they are simply going to increase the bounce from the d-throw. This will reduce the combo range from its very easy and huge range to something requiring a deeper knowledge of percents and not guarantee kills. This is the simplest thing to do without re-design of the character in a more radical way, which is doubtful. Zamus likely gets the same treatment.

 

[SpottedCerberus]

I don't think they'll nerf him too much. They might do something to make his hoo-hah shenanigans a bit more difficult or less effective. I think that's fair and it would be perfectly sufficient. Diddy is far from broken; he's just ridiculously safe.

But they nerfed the hell out of Rosa, and it was way more than was necessary. So who knows.

 

[gameprodigy12]

Honestly, I love that Diddy's top tier. His aggressive playstyle is the only thing keeping top competitive matches from being boring Rosalina campfests and Shiek dittos all over the place. He's actually one of the only top tier character actually fun to play against. Rock on, diddy nerds.
I think that he needs some startup lag on uair, and a couple frames of startup lag on dtilt and fair. That's honestly everything he needs to be balanced. Maybe a cooldown for spawning bananas. (7 seconds, maybe?)
I'd much rather someone like Sonic or Rosalina nerfed into the ground, but the idea is in everyone's heads that "DIDDY IS OP xxDddddd look at me guys i know everything about competitive smash, everyone else is fine but **** DIddY!! !! !", and I have a horrible feeling that Nintendo is gonna listen to that dumb opinion and completely ruin Diddy while keeping the other top tiers (Sonic, Rosalina, Luigi, Villager) nearly unchanged in the next balance patch.

Diddy may be fine, but he still needs so tweaks to his power and frames a little, Shiek might get hit and same to Sonic, Rosa will not and should not get nerfed cause she's already been nerfed. Plus she isn't campy either. Luigi idk but he shouldn't and villager again idk.

 

[HarajukuNinja]

I honestly don't believe he's broken, but here's a few tweaks I have in mind:

-Add startup and reduce knockback of his u-air
-Reduce knockback of his f-air

That's it. I don't want him to be ruined or anything. Just tone down a couple of things to make him seem less like a "brain-dead character."

 

[Zegend]

Plus she isn't campy either.

What are you talking about?
every single match in this set either went to time or had 4 seconds on the clock at the end.
at least diddy can actually get matches finished.

 

[Dre89]

Diddy may be fine, but he still needs so tweaks to his power and frames a little, Shiek might get hit and same to Sonic, Rosa will not and should not get nerfed cause she's already been nerfed. Plus she isn't campy either. Luigi idk but he shouldn't and villager again idk.

What do you mean Rosa isn't campy she literally stands on the other side of stage and zones you out with what is basically a permanent projectile.

 

[pikazz]

What do you mean Rosa isn't campy she literally stands on the other side of stage and zones you out with what is basically a permanent projectile.

Luma cant be shield so if she shields, aim for it.
or you can grab and toss right away wthout giving rosalina to think and mindgaming her in the air

Rosa is campy but she can be deal with

 

[Dre89]

Luma cant be shield so if she shields, aim for it.
or you can grab and toss right away wthout giving rosalina to think and mindgaming her in the air

Rosa is campy but she can be deal with

I never said she couldn't be dealt with I just pointed out the idea that she's not campy is wrong

 

[pikazz]

I never said she couldn't be dealt with I just pointed out the idea that she's not campy is wrong

sorry, my mistake xD

either how, if diddys UAir stronkness and speed and Fair abusement is still in after the patch, Diddy will still be toptier D: