0 death footstool combo--INESCAPABLE to floaties--video--luigi, sheik, falco, marth

[BudaBoy]

Just thought of this, don't know if it will work but would rocket barrels be viable instead of the footstool? It would spike them a second time once you're lower and get you back to the edge. Not by a wii right now so I can't try it out, but I thought I'd throw it out there.

 

[AlphaZealot]

So I watched the video...

I don't understand why you say footstool. I looks like you just hit with the kick, edge cancel the lag, and hit with the dair, then, if nessasary, footstool them. The kick > edge cancel > Dair is the awesome part, the footstool at the edge is just gravy. Good find.

 

[BudaBoy]

So I watched the video...

I don't understand why you say footstool. I looks like you just hit with the kick, edge cancel the lag, and hit with the dair, then, if nessasary, footstool them. The kick > edge cancel > Dair is the awesome part, the footstool at the edge is just gravy. Good find.

Well at the necessary low percents, isn't it recoverable without the footstool (assuming the character has some decent vertical recovery)?

 

[ADHD]

Just thought of this, don't know if it will work but would rocket barrels be viable instead of the footstool? It would spike them a second time once you're lower and get you back to the edge. Not by a wii right now so I can't try it out, but I thought I'd throw it out there.

I thought of this before and no the rocket barrels don't work

 

[Diddyknight]

Did it to my friend today XD

 

[ADHD]

Well at the necessary low percents, isn't it recoverable without the footstool (assuming the character has some decent vertical recovery)?

No, I no matter how great your verticle recovery is you cannot get back on because te footstool goes into the KO zone.
@ diddyknight awesome :D
The footstool combo works on marth at 0 too.
So what I'm finding out is, that this combo may work on more characters at higher percents. I tested luigi at 10 percent and the footstool landed perfectly when it wouldn't land at 0 percent.

Here's the thing, I tested this on other chars and for most of them the kick flip to dair kills them alone on bad recoveries at 0-5ish. For falco, sheik, and ike they are forced to use their up b and you can barrel spike them while going back onto the ledge.

 

[BudaBoy]

No, I no matter how great your verticle recovery is you cannot get back on because te footstool goes into the KO zone.
@ diddyknight awesome :D
The footstool combo works on marth at 0 too.
So what I'm finding out is, that this combo may work on more characters at higher percents. I tested luigi at 10 percent and the footstool landed perfectly when it wouldn't land at 0 percent.

Here's the thing, I tested this on other chars and for most of them the kick flip to dair kills them alone on bad recoveries at 0-5ish. For falco, sheik, and ike they are forced to use their up b and you can barrel spike them while going back onto the ledge.

I was saying without the footstool, it would be recoverable. I was responding to alphazealot who seemed to be saying that the footstool was just extra flavor but unnecessary.

 

[ADHD]

I was saying without the footstool, it would be recoverable. I was responding to alphazealot who seemed to be saying that the footstool was just extra flavor but unnecessary.

You don't need to footstool sheik or falco because you can barrel spike them when they try to get back up instead

 

[Shurk]

1st Post!

The only thing I am worried about is it seemed you went into autopilot doing the move. At least from what I saw in the video, is that is a recognizable problem to doing this "0 to footstool" or merely you were trying to pull it off and I should disregard the automatic Monkey Flip/Kick into a Dair, even though the opponent wasn't in the right area.

[Edit] This move only works when someone is recovering, the conventional way(from the edge) and not the "drop down jump up" way?

 

[bludhoundz]

To make it more applicable, I'm trying to think of ways to get the spacing.

The best I can think of is a glide toss (depending on where you are, make it forward or backward) to space yourself and leave your opponent immobile for long enough to nail them with the flip kick.

 

[ADHD]

1st Post!

The only thing I am worried about is it seemed you went into autopilot doing the move. At least from what I saw in the video, is that is a recognizable problem to doing this "0 to footstool" or merely you were trying to pull it off and I should disregard the automatic Monkey Flip/Kick into a Dair, even though the opponent wasn't in the right area.

[Edit] This move only works when someone is recovering, the conventional way(from the edge) and not the "drop down jump up" way?

No but you got me wondering since there is a slight vunerability in all ledge get-up animations except the drop down that this combo could work...

 

[Shurk]

Chrome, is it possible you can get a match where some point you used this "0 to death" thing at least once successfully? That would be much appreciated. I wouldn't mind seeing it in actual practice.

 

[ADHD]

Chrome, is it possible you can get a match where some point you used this "0 to death" thing at least once successfully? That would be much appreciated. I wouldn't mind seeing it in actual practice.

XD sadly I dont have a recording device, but maybe diddyknight can in friendlys offline or something IDK

 

[BudaBoy]

1st Post!

The only thing I am worried about is it seemed you went into autopilot doing the move. At least from what I saw in the video, is that is a recognizable problem to doing this "0 to footstool" or merely you were trying to pull it off and I should disregard the automatic Monkey Flip/Kick into a Dair, even though the opponent wasn't in the right area.

[Edit] This move only works when someone is recovering, the conventional way(from the edge) and not the "drop down jump up" way?

Unfortunately, you pretty much have to somewhat autopilot and commit to at least the dair with this approach before you can register wether or not they even sweetspotted the ledge, but it's not that big a deal since you're only just below the edge with an air jump, a monkey flip, and your rocket barrels.

 

[Shurk]

Unfortunately, you pretty much have to somewhat autopilot and commit to at least the dair with this approach before you can register wether or not they even sweetspotted the ledge, but it's not that big a deal since you're only just below the edge with an air jump, a monkey flip, and your rocket barrels.

So then I guess my problem with this is the autopilot during the move. It's not wise to put one's self off the stage on purpose under any circumstances. Especially below the stage.

@Chrome; The thing is, the majority of the people I play that are good use the "fall down jump up" approach to get back on. Never pushing "X", "A", "Y" "L" R" to get back onto the ledge, because of the fact it leaves you vulnerable, Which it seems the 0-death depends on.

 

[BudaBoy]

So then I guess my problem with this is the autopilot during the move. It's not wise to put one's self off the stage on purpose under any circumstances. Especially below the stage.

@Chrome; The thing is, the majority of the people I play that are good use the "fall down jump up" approach to get back on. Never pushing "X", "A", "Y" "L" R" to get back onto the ledge, because of the fact it leaves you vulnerable, Which it seems the 0-death depends on.

I don't believe that fast falling would save you from this. The dair happens almost immediately after passing the edge, and i think the footstool happens before they regain control of the character from the spike.

 

[Shurk]

I don't believe that fast falling would save you from this. The dair happens almost immediately after passing the edge, and i think the footstool happens before they regain control of the character from the spike.

I wasn't talking about fast falling down to get away once hit. I was talking about the recovery method. Of dropping down then instantly jumping up, to prevent the lag from the conventional ways of getting up onto stage. Doing this will make it near impossible to be hit by this "0-death" combo. As you wouldn't even be in the necessary spot to get hit by it.

 

[ADHD]

I wasn't talking about fast falling down to get away once hit. I was talking about the recovery method. Of dropping down then instantly jumping up, to prevent the lag from the conventional ways of getting up onto stage. Doing this will make it near impossible to be hit by this "0-death" combo. As you wouldn't even be in the necessary spot to get hit by it.

I'm gonna see if I can find out if this combo works on all ledge get up animations

 

[BudaBoy]

I wasn't talking about fast falling down to get away once hit. I was talking about the recovery method. Of dropping down then instantly jumping up, to prevent the lag from the conventional ways of getting up onto stage. Doing this will make it near impossible to be hit by this "0-death" combo. As you wouldn't even be in the necessary spot to get hit by it.

What your referring to is called ledge hopping, and it's just as punishable as using a getting up animation. Whenever someone's on the ledge it becomes a mindgame of how they're going to get back on stage and if the other player can predict it, thus punishing it. Soooo... you can now use the 0-death combo, or at least the knowledge that you are capable of it as another factor of the mindgame forcing them to do a ledge hop, then you punish. Maybe not completely practical seeing as you have to be considerably in stage to perform the flip kick, and it's easiest to punish a ledge hop when standing at the edge, but idk... play with it.

Also, getting up from the ledge isn't the only situation this is usable. You could banana lock them right up to the edge and stop before that last throw that puts them off the side, and immediately flip kick (with spacing in mind).

 

[Shurk]

What your referring to is called ledge hopping, and it's just as punishable as using a getting up animation. Whenever someone's on the ledge it becomes a mindgame of how they're going to get back on stage and if the other player can predict it, thus punishing it. Soooo... you can now use the 0-death combo, or at least the knowledge that you are capable of it as another factor of the mindgame forcing them to do a ledge hop, then you punish. Maybe not completely practical seeing as you have to be considerably in stage to perform the flip kick, and it's easiest to punish a ledge hop when standing at the edge, but idk... play with it.

Also, getting up from the ledge isn't the only situation this is usable. You could banana lock them right up to the edge and stop before that last throw that puts them off the side, and immediately flip kick (with spacing in mind).

Thanks, couldn't remember the name for the life of me. But as I was saying the stuff you are talking about only makes the move that much MORE circumstantial, to what it already is. When I say this, I mean it is highly situational, border line 1/100 matches you might do this. [Exaggeration]. Also, if they ledgehop OUT, then come in. The most you can do it is knock them back to almost falling off the ledge, but not quite, and if you are able to knock them off the ledge with the Monkey Flip/Kick then there already at too high of damage to be simply Dair'd following it. So in this case, Ledge Hopping is ideal because it only makes it that much harder to land. In my mind rendering this "combo" unnecessary and slightly too risky to use in high level play.

 

[Diddyknight]

lol i love doing this in tournaments now XD they just get baffled by the fact that they cant get out XDXD
not exactly situational, you would have to find out how to do the setup for it and predict on what they are planning to do on the ledge. if you do it right, free spike for game sometimes.

 

[ADHD]

lol i love doing this in tournaments now XD they just get baffled by the fact that they cant get out XDXD
not exactly situational, you would have to find out how to do the setup for it and predict on what they are planning to do on the ledge. if you do it right, free spike for game sometimes.

cool that someone is making use out of it diddyknight, how do you set it up i haven't gotten an opportunity

 

[saberhof]

does this work if i glide toss a banana, and they fall around that area so i can just go for it??..easier to set up...=)

 

[ADHD]

does this work if i glide toss a banana, and they fall around that area so i can just go for it??..easier to set up...=)

Yes it should