“There are no low tier characters, only low tier players.”

[Grunt]

tiers dont exist...it so obveuos u guyz are so dum and gai.

okey first of all characacter has pros and con so u rly cant say any1 is worse den da other u stupid nubs. Lol i culd pwn u guys so hard. i pwned my friend who uses Snake w/ captain falcon so deres proof tiers dont exist lol u guyz are dum.

TIERS R 4 QUEERS LOL N0000000000000000000BS

dis guy speekz truf, u guise dun no nufin.

 

[PCHU]

How can anyone really be cheap?
If you're a good enough player, then shouldn't you be able to space yourself well enough to be able to evade any "cheap" attacks?

I'm well aware that Snake's punch is some crap (Come on, he could play piano three feet away with that thing) but nothing is truly cheap.
Cheap is when your opponent can OHKO you without even moving, no matter where you are.
I don't see Snake KOing me from the other side of New Pork City.

Metaknight is a decent character, however, he CAN BE BEATEN.
Some people don't realize this and freak out when they face one.
That causes losses, but it's THEIR OWN FAULT.
I should bold that.
IT'S THEIR OWN FAULT that they have the mindset that they can't win.
IT'S THEIR OWN FAULT that they choke and fail.
IT'S THEIR OWN FAULT that they believe there's no solution.

See what I mean?
I'm not being one of those "You've just gotta believe!" freaks.
I'm saying there is a way around everything.
Somehow, someway, anything can be beaten (with the exception of God).
You just have to play smart and not be a complete idiot, running into a fully charged Ikesmash.

 

[Firus]

Allow me to rephrase. “There are no cheap characters, only cheap players.”



Agree? Disagree?

What do you think? Personally I agree, any character can beat any other character if they try hard enough. I use Meta Knight and I've gotten my fair share of flames.

"Meta Knight Spams"
"He's Cheap"

Well I don't spam, calling a character cheap is just another John in my opinion. When fighting a Meta Knight or a Ike or any character that is called cheap, you should know that how to beat them. Take advantage of Meta Knight's lightweight. Time Ike's attacks and counter.
But still, people disagree, and I don't see why.

Its the players choice to spam and camp, its not the characters fault. Someone prove to me that this statement is wrong, or help defend it.

In other words, tires don exits?

I agree that any character can beat any character. Clearly it can. I do think that trying to invent tier lists is kind of hopeless, because it's always going to be different because...everyone plays differently with different characters. Tiers do exist, they're just impossible to decipher. I mean, Meta Knight is supposed to be god tier and I think he sucks.

So I'd say tier lists cannot be accurate. Tiers exist, it's just impossible for anyone to accurately define them.

But certain characters are better in certain aspects, and some characters just were not balanced correctly.

And if a character has a highly spammable move, it doesn't matter if it's the person that's spamming. It's still the character that's to blame for that for having the move that is able to be spammed.

Not that Sakurai cares, since it's not about winning or losing to him..

That said, I say cheapness doesn't matter. As it was said, play to win, there's no cheapness.

 

[kr3wman]

In other words, tires don exits?

I agree that any character can beat any character. Clearly it can. I do think that trying to invent tier lists is kind of hopeless, because it's always going to be different because...everyone plays differently with different characters. Tiers do exist, they're just impossible to decipher. I mean, Meta Knight is supposed to be god tier and I think he sucks.

So I'd say tier lists cannot be accurate. Tiers exist, it's just impossible for anyone to accurately define them.

Not that Sakurai cares, since it's not about winning or losing to him..

That said, I say cheapness doesn't matter. As it was said, play to win, there's no cheapness.

That's just wishful thinking man.

Not that Sakurai cares, since it's not about winning or losing to him..

I think he cares about making MONEY MONEY MONEY!

 

[KoJ]

You have GOT to be kidding me. Go face a Metaknight, or even better, Akuma, then say there are no cheap characters. Fireballs ftl.

How can anyone really be cheap?
If you're a good enough player, then shouldn't you be able to space yourself well enough to be able to evade any "cheap" attacks?

Sure, when half of a character's moveset is overpowered, I can sure help by DODGING. Never mind that dodging won't win you a match.

I'm well aware that Snake's punch is some crap (Come on, he could play piano three feet away with that thing) but nothing is truly cheap.

Snake's forward tilt can do 20 damage, and has almost as much range as Marth's. You don't call that overpowered?

Cheap is when your opponent can OHKO you without even moving, no matter where you are.
I don't see Snake KOing me from the other side of New Pork City.

Let's use an example from Pokemon. Mewtwo, one of the cheapest ones, was required to actually hit you. Did that stop him from being banned from non-uber tournaments?

Metaknight is a decent character, however, he CAN BE BEATEN.

Akuma could be beaten. Didn't stop him from being the most overpowered thing on the planet.

Some people don't realize this and freak out when they face one.

Or they just try to fight normally and still get screwed over.

That causes losses, but it's THEIR OWN FAULT.

EXCUSE ME? Do you know how ridiculous that sounds? "Oh sir, I got fireballed three times in a row by Akuma, but it's my own fault." "Oh sir, I lost in a fist fight against someone with a gun, but it's my own fault." "Please sir, could you K.O. me 3 times in a row with Meta Knight? It's my own fault that Ganondorf couldn't even touch him."

IT'S THEIR OWN FAULT that they have the mindset that they can't win.

Get infinite grabbed by DDD, and then tell me it's the mindset.

IT'S THEIR OWN FAULT that they choke and fail.

Choking/Failing. Plenty of times, I go into a match completely confident, only to have my own backside served to me on a plate with a side of potatoes.

IT'S THEIR OWN FAULT that they believe there's no solution.

Of course there's a solution. Get better. But wait, what if that Meta or Snake get's better? Remember, Smash doesn't exist in a vacuum.

I'm saying there is a way around everything.

There's a way around fighting someone when he has a gun; Surrender, or get a gun yourself.

Somehow, someway, anything can be beaten (with the exception of God).

Cheap does not mean unbeatable. Akuma was banned, but he technically wasn't unbeatable.

You just have to play smart and not be a complete idiot, running into a fully charged Ikesmash.

First of all, Ike isn't cheap. He's far worse than the real top dogs (Meta, GW, Snake, ROB, Marth, DDD...).

Second of all, running into a fully charged Ikesmash is not equivalent to getting your *** kicked by a Metaknight.

Tiers exist.

I mean, Meta Knight is supposed to be god tier and I think he sucks.

So I'd say tier lists cannot be accurate. Tiers exist, it's just impossible for anyone to accurately define them.

Could you explain why Metaknight is currently winning more tournaments than any other character? Could you explain why Link, Samus, Captain Falcon, and Bowser aren't as lucky?

But certain characters are better in certain aspects, and some characters just were not balanced correctly.

You just explained why the tier list exists.

 

[kr3wman]

Cheap does not mean unbeatable. Akuma was banned, but he technically wasn't unbeatable.

Yeah, he was unbeatable against anyone not Gouki, I do believe. Top 8s in tournaments in the mid-90s were all Akumas, I do believe.

I do believe.

 

[Jiangjunizzy]

why do you people keep bringing up akuma have you guys even played street fighter 3

he's AVERAGE at best.

 

[kr3wman]

why do you people keep bringing up akuma have you guys even played street fighter 3

he's AVERAGE at best.

He's high tier in Third Strike.

In Turbo he's unbeatable. Noob.

 

[Graz69]

i totally agree


for instance im a lot better with peach (who most would consider a low tier character) than i am with metaknight, who is top tier.


the tier list dosent incorporate the players fighting style, people who find it easier to play as someone with speed might choose sonic over snake, while people who like strong smash attacks would do the opposite.

 

[Vulcan55]

Tiers do exist, they're just impossible to decipher. I mean, Meta Knight is supposed to be god tier and I think he sucks.

Just because you suck with him, doesn't mean he sucks.

why do you people keep bringing up akuma have you guys even played street fighter 3

he's AVERAGE at best.

Have you even played ST?

Spoiler

noob

 

[kr3wman]

Just because you suck with him, doesn't mean he sucks.



Have you even played ST?

Spoiler

noob

He tought we were talking about SF3: Third Strike. It's no big deal, that game is more popular than turbo, but you have to know the roots.

 

[MarKO X]

Here's what happened with Akuma...

A good Akuma can beat a great anyone. Period. His combos in ST are ****ing ********. His air fireball was something people only dreamed of at the time. And his power was waaay too much. He showed up in Super Turbo and was waaaay ahead of his time. In the games of the future, the rest of cast caught up with him, but he still pwns.

And is 3S really more popular than ST? I know it is stateside, but in Japan they hold tourney for ST every week.

 

[kr3wman]

Here's what happened with Akuma...

A good Akuma can beat a great anyone. Period. His combos in ST are ****ing ********. His air fireball was something people only dreamed of at the time. And his power was waaay too much. He showed up in Super Turbo and was waaaay ahead of his time. In the games of the future, the rest of cast caught up with him, but he still pwns.

And is 3S really more popular than ST? I know it is stateside, but in Japan they hold tourney for ST every week.

I think the launch of Street Fighter 4 rekindled the interest in Street Fighter. Its popularity in Japan went up like a rocket these past few months. It's hard to say.

 

[Jiangjunizzy]

He's high tier in Third Strike.

In Turbo he's unbeatable. Noob.

In turbo, he was a secret character; a secret boss. He's supposed to be cheap.

In third strike, he may be high tier, but he's no where near as cheap as chun li, ken, or any of the other top tier characters.

all this "omg its like akuma" nonsense is ********, at least refer to a more current character thats cheap for no reason... like zasalamel from sc3, or necrid from sc2, or cable from mvc2.. half you probably never even played sf2 in its prime, much less even play as akuma in that game

 

[kr3wman]

In turbo, he was a secret character; a secret boss. He's supposed to be cheap.

In third strike, he may be high tier, but he's no where near as cheap as chun li, ken, or any of the other top tier characters.

all this "omg its like akuma" nonsense is ********, at least refer to a more current character thats cheap for no reason... like zasalamel from sc3, or necrid from sc2, or cable from mvc2.. half you probably never even played sf2 in its prime, much less even play as akuma in that game

It's kinda hard playing a game like Turbo when you're three years old.

And we're not gonna start on Third Strike tiers list. Oh god no.

 

[Sygmus]

I haven't played much Street Fighter, but I have played Naruto Gekitou Ninja Taisen. Any character can beat any character, for sure. But even so, playing as nearly anyone vs. Itachi is like bringing a knife to a gun fight. Example: Ten-Ten fights well while jumping around in the air a lot, but all Itachi has to do to ground her is jump+A.

Though SSBB is much more balanced, it works the same way. Some characters just have better abilities than others. That's not to say that it doesn't take any skill to use them correctly, you can't tell me that DDD's infinite grab doesn't provide an advantage over some others. And don't ever say "just don't get grabbed, simple as that." I've been playing Melee seriously for four years and I may be grabbed by my brother once or twice in a match, and he NEVER plays it (though he does play 64 pretty well). To suggest that I won't get grabbed against a person who may very well be better than me is unrealistic.

On a side note, I was like 5 years old when the Street Fighter 2 series started and that's when I played it the most. So I prefer SF2 Turbo, before Akuma showed up and when Chun-Li got Kikkoken.

 

[PCHU]

KoJ missed my point.
These characters are beatable.
It's called don't get hit.
I'm sorry if some characters have pathetic range against another.
I am a tier believer.
I know that some characters just suck against others.
But there is always strategy.
I'm pretty sure there is always a flaw in someone's gameplay, else they would be the master.
Exploit that flaw.
Study your opponent.
SPACE.
SPACE.
SPACE.
SPACE YOURSELF.
I really don't want to get infinited, and neither does anyone else.
So what do you do?
THINK.
How are you getting grabbed?
How are you getting KOed?
Are you falling into this?
Can you think of a way NOT to get into a KO/infinite setup?

I'm not trying to say that it's super easy to defeat everyone, I'm just saying that there is a way to beat everyone, you just have to think of how you would go about doing it.
As I said before, if they are flawless, then they can't be beaten as they have MASTERED the game.

And I am well aware that it is about right next to IMPOSSIBLE for a good Ganondorf to beat an equally good Metaknight.
But hey, you can at LEAST get 40% off of him

 

[AgentJGV]

I really don't want to get infinited, and neither does anyone else.
So what do you do?
THINK.

yes but you forget, most people CANT think.


And on a serious note, Thinking during an actually match sounds great in theory but its easier said than done. I know for a fact that most people act off instinct most of the time which is usually fine in and of itself. The problem occurs when the opponent knows how to counter that instict. The player is then forced into frustration because he can't do what he's used to. I smash by two words, "BE FLEXIBLE!"

 

[JSLink]

The SSB team created Tiers to make you think some characters are better than others. It just doens't go that way. Fox/Falco/Wolf top tiers in Brawl really doens't make sense, IMO. If the people don't know how to correctly use them, why are they considered Top Tier?

I do believe in the There are no low tier characters, only low tier players.

 

[Takeshi245]

The SSB team created Tiers to make you think some characters are better than others. It just doens't go that way. Fox/Falco/Wolf top tiers in Brawl really doens't make sense, IMO. If the people don't know how to correctly use them, why are they considered Top Tier?

I do believe in the There are no low tier characters, only low tier players.

They aren't top tier because they're not the best characters in the game and aren't doing as well as Metaknight and Snake are in tournaments. I find it funny how you don't think the quality of priority, speed, power, and recovery have nothing to do with how good characters are. They are characters that are bad like Captain Falcon in Brawl because of the bad moves and qualities they have like difficulty KO, bad match-ups against a lot of characters because of bad qualities like bad priority, bad KO set-ups, bad recovery, and the like. Such ideas like "Every character is equal." are fallacious and stupid. Besides, if every character is equal, then that would mean that every character would have to be the same. Oh wait. They're not. That must mean they're different. That must also mean that they are characters that have more power, more speed, better priority, and/or better recovery than others. And the funny thing is you assume that the SSB did that to fool us into thinking that some characters are better than others. In all actuality, it's true. Fox, Falco, and Wolf aren't bad characters. They just aren't as good as Snake or Metaknight because they don't have the kind of KO options, set-ups, and priority that Snake and Metaknight have that help them against the rest of the cast. And people know how to correctly use them. The character itself just isn't good enough. Player skill doesn't determine how good a character is because the character has already been made with its strengths and weaknesses before the player even got his/her hands on the game. Oh, and I can tell by your post that you have no idea how tier lists are made.

 

[PCHU]

yes but you forget, most people CANT think.


And on a serious note, Thinking during an actually match sounds great in theory but its easier said than done. I know for a fact that most people act off instinct most of the time which is usually fine in and of itself. The problem occurs when the opponent knows how to counter that instinct. The player is then forced into frustration because he can't do what he's used to. I smash by two words, "BE FLEXIBLE!"

Well, at least someone out there plays like I do.

 

[Takeshi245]

Fighting someone using a better character that's equal to you in skill plus you using an inferior character equals you use, no matter how "flexible" you are. The person with the superior character will beat you because their character allows them more options and less mistakes than the character you have to win. Their character isn't as limited as the lesser character you're using. This is reality. Besides, this main topic has been refuted many times. I'm done here.

 

[hippochinfat!!]

dis guy speekz truf, u guise dun no nufin.

me and u r smart u no we shud teech dese gai nubz hear how 2 plai like gud ppl cuz they suck lol!!!1

 

[The Executive]

playing as nearly anyone vs. Itachi is like bringing a knife to a gun fight. Example: Ten-Ten fights well while jumping around in the air a lot, but all Itachi has to do to ground her is jump+A

If Ten-Ten jumps straight up jump+A does nothing but yeah I see your point.

Itachi and OTK are so broken it's ridiculous, due to triplication and absurd range, respectively.

 

[CodeBlack]

(deleted, unintentional conversation necromancy)

 

[Sygmus]

If Ten-Ten jumps straight up jump+A does nothing but yeah I see your point.

Itachi and OTK are so broken it's ridiculous, due to triplication and absurd range, respectively.

True, but I rarely just jump up for no reason. I jump to throw shirikens, or to simply advance toward the opponent. Ten-Ten also jumps when using BA, BBA, or BBBA, all of which are my main combos.

Er, sorry for the off-topic post.

 

[TheDuplexDuo]

It's a paradoxical problem.

Tiers are really just popularity contests, when there popular every wants to bandwagon to sucess. And in turn it improves the whole characters game, techs, tricks. But how do they get popular in the first place? By some soul achieving very well in tournys. Anyone remember back in Melee when Ice Climbers were once considered worthless?


Another issue being those who join the N00B wagon express in order to do well at tournys MUST resort to "cheap" moves. Simply there is innovators and imitators. But basicly, Metaknights **** up the Metagame and TEIRS R 4 QUIERS. No johns. Charizard Go! Rock Smash! ******** conversation I CHOOOOOSE YOOOOU!

I love you charizard. I'll make ya a sig on day in honour of your glory-ness.​

 

[BrawlerHarrison]

I say all characters can be awesome to some extent...

I've seen atleast one of every single char play great :D

 

[PCHU]

I say all characters can be awesome to some extent...

I've seen at least one of every single char play great :D

Seen a good Samus?
Or perhaps a Lucas?
I don't see them too often.

 

[AgentJGV]

I've seen many a good lucas.
Samus just needs a chance.

 

[MarKO X]

I might be bugging a little bit, but did the title of this thread change while I was gone?

 

[TriforceMaster5282]

tiers dont exist...it so obveuos u guyz are so dum and gai.

okey first of all characacter has pros and con so u rly cant say any1 is worse den da other u stupid nubs. Lol i culd pwn u guys so hard. i pwned my friend who uses Snake w/ captain falcon so deres proof tiers dont exist lol u guyz are dum.

TIERS R 4 QUEERS LOL N0000000000000000000BS

TY!! you totally rock and I agree, there arent bad characters, only bad players, I beat Meta Knight with frikken Diddy Kong, all you gotta do is throw bananas, I beat him with Link, all you gotta do is shoot arrows, Zelda, Din's Fire, each character can get their *** beaet by any other player, the game creators didnt make the game so that one is better than the other, otherwise EVERYONE would be that one player so your just stupid for thinkig that, and people who do think that, well you wouldnt if your character was on low tier would u? i didnt think so

 

[Sosuke]

Triforcemaster, he was kidding.
...
I don't see how its not obvious.

 

[Revolver Roosevelt]

If Tiers don't exist I am SO maining Igniz in KoF 2k1

 

[kr3wman]

I might be bugging a little bit, but did the title of this thread change while I was gone?

NEEECCrrrroooooo. And no, the title still doesn't make any sense.

 

[Falconv1.0]

TY!! you totally rock and I agree, there arent bad characters, only bad players, I beat Meta Knight with frikken Diddy Kong, all you gotta do is throw bananas, I beat him with Link, all you gotta do is shoot arrows, Zelda, Din's Fire, each character can get their *** beaet by any other player, the game creators didnt make the game so that one is better than the other, otherwise EVERYONE would be that one player so your just stupid for thinkig that, and people who do think that, well you wouldnt if your character was on low tier would u? i didnt think so

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA. HA. HAAAAA.


Anyways, lol, there are terrible characters, and there are awesome characters. All fighting games have good characters, which means there must be some bad characters. Grow the **** up and realize Brawl isn't uber balanced.

 

[Finding Waldo]

I do not think they can ever make a perfectly balanced fighting game. It would take too long and no one has the patience to do so. There will always be tiers.