Smash Back Room Weekly Character Discussions! FINAL UPDATES: Ness + Lucas. All done!!

[Terywj [태리]]

#13: Samus.

-Ter

 

[Zero_Gamer]

Imma guess Snake, because he has no kill moves.

 

[Reasons]

Imma guess Snake, because he has no kill moves.

You just might be onto something.

 

[Dry Bones]

except that uh Snake has already been covered

 

[Kitamerby]

except that uh Snake has already been covered

Yeah, but his aerials are too good at comboing in and out of themselves. His ground game does seem sucky at first, too! Maybe it IS Snake!

 

[Knickknacks]

I'd say the 13th character is ZSS

 

[Fire!]

I'd say the 13th character is ZSS

Agreed. ZSS is good in the air and long range, but her Smashes suck if not kept fresh.

 

[Nitrix]

Are ZSS's whip attacks really considered long-range? I would consider them to be more like medium-range. That would only leave her blaster for long-range, but that isn't nearly good enough at long-range combat to be considered strong.

Samus however has 3 different projectiles for her long-range game, and only a few kill moves. It is Samus.

 

[fujbubccc]

Is the fact that this accurately describes so many characters indicative of the balance of the game? IE: Good long range with no kill moves is everybody and their mom, while good long range with lots of kill moves is just a few.

 

[GimmeAnFSharp]

I feel it's Samus... Zamus has good spacing, but I wouldn't call it long-range.

 

[infomon]

Are ZSS's whip attacks really considered long-range? I would consider them to be more like medium-range. That would only leave her blaster for long-range, but that isn't nearly good enough at long-range combat to be considered strong.

I agree. ZSS has a great medium-range game, but not a real long-range one. I'm also not sure I'd call her aerials "awesome".

Samus however has 3 different projectiles for her long-range game, and only a few kill moves. It is Samus.

A lot of the comments here decry Samus' projectiles, but while it might not be the best long-range, it's certainly not bad. Most characters barely have a long-range game; at least Samus has options that are (situationally) useful.

I wouldn't call Samus' aerial game "awesome", though, either. The hint says:

an awesome aerial game that can open up plenty of combos if you know how to do it right

Maybe some of Samus' aerials can combo well, if you're really good with them; is this the case? Anyone have any vids of that? Her aerials don't seem that much more impressive than her "short range game" to me.

I really think it's Yoshi. His projectile is distinctively good and puts pressure on the opponent, unlike ZSS' laser. His aerial game is awesome; his best attribute. It takes skill to combo with it, but it certainly can combo, into his ground game, eggs, or sometimes another aerial. You're not as afraid of Yoshi when he's right in front of you. He has a poor grab, and a slow roll, for example. Yoshi players afaik will generally stay slightly above ground and pick on you with the aerials.

Just my thoughts... I don't main Samus or Yoshi, though.

 

[The Halloween Captain]

I still think that Sonic's running should be considered as a long-range game, but by that standard, Captain Falcon would qualify as well.

 

[x After Dawn x]

Running towards your opponent is not long-range, that's called approaching. -_-

 

[mitchlol7]

It's samus cus her trademark is her gun which makes her not seem good

on a second note that gun/arm is cool

 

[ShadowLink84]

Long range combat does not necessarily mean the person has a projectile.

It simply means that they have a large number of options at long range.
The long range can tie in to their approach game.

Especially since Sonic fits much of the criteria, it may be a bit of a stretch but I could see it happening.

 

[Kiwikomix]

If it doesn't mean that you need a projectile, then I could see how it would be Sonic. But is his short range game really good in any way? And doesn't he struggle to get KO's even if he DOESN'T keep his KO moves fresh?
Just for clarification.

 

[WITH]

Zamus doesn't appear horrible on the surface...in fact people immediately had her at around mid to high tier in the beginning....meanwhile Samus was immediately put at near bottom tier and nobody plays her.

Also, turnips are not a good long range game. It's not like melee, now people can catch turnips while attacking, so they are hardly slowed at all by them. Not to mention she can't throw them far at all.

People need to stop reading one sentence then plugging them into their underappreciated mains, Samus is the only one that this completely fits for.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Yeah it actually is pretty good.

ASC is one of his most versatile moes.
he can chew up a shield, cancel into a grab, go into a footstool hop and avoid any sort of punishment.
If the ASC lands thats easily 30% damag, let alone the possible follows ups afterwads.
Ftilt has range comparable to Marth's Fsmash, Dtilt can trip and leads directly into a Usmash or Utilt at lower percentages.


SH Nairs can be difficult to counter for most characters.
Fsmash can be stutterstepped so that its range is actually better than Marth's Fsmash in terms of range.

His grab game is among the better ones considering he has the range and his D throw, F throw and U throw set up many options.

 

[biohazard930]

Zamus doesn't appear horrible on the surface...in fact people immediately had her at around mid to high tier in the beginning....meanwhile Samus was immediately put at near bottom tier and nobody plays her.

Also, turnips are not a good long range game. It's not like melee, now people can catch turnips while attacking, so they are hardly slowed at all by them. Not to mention she can't throw them far at all.

People need to stop reading one sentence then plugging them into their underappreciated mains, Samus is the only one that this completely fits for.

Thank you. Zamus does look pretty good on the surface, if you ask me, and that's where I disqualify her.

But I might also ask how Yoshi does not fit?

 

[gallax]

samus fits the best here. no one is arguing the long rang, but the airiel game is where you are gonna win with her. her fair can potentially lead into combos along with her uair. dont forget about her zair. its one of her best attributes. she really needs to keep her fsmash or dsmash preserved since those will be her best kill moves other than trying to hit with a fully charged shot.

 

[_Phloat_]

At first I thought Lucario... I haven't seen any debate on that (I don't read to much of this thread, most is, in fact, shameless main plugging) but why not him? AS is good, BAS are good, he looks bad at close range but DT and FP hurt. His aerials combo very well IF YOU KNOW HOW =D

He seems to fit. Also, I saw him as crap until I learned to use him, but that could just be me...

 

[Frate]

Throwing in some cents here, I'm sure it's samus but...
Ness?

He's still quite bad... Don't know about long range game, and his aerials are quite comboable. I don't know about KO possibilities though...

 

[deepseadiva]

Also, turnips are not a good long range game. It's not like melee, now people can catch turnips while attacking, so they are hardly slowed at all by them. Not to mention she can't throw them far at all.

Pfft! They maybe medium-ranged, but saying anyone is "hardly slowed at all" by them is baseless. Turnips are one of the most spammable things in the game - not to mention they KILL during edge-guarding. Donk, donk, donk, death.

Long range combat does not necessarily mean the person has a projectile.

It simply means that they have a large number of options at long range.
The long range can tie in to their approach game.

Especially since Sonic fits much of the criteria, it may be a bit of a stretch but I could see it happening.

Eh, Sonic at a far distance can't do anything. He can clear the gap between long-range and close-range quite quickly, but that's not attacking at long-range - that's, like After Dawn said, approaching FROM long distances to make CLOSE-RANGE.

Throwing in some cents here, I'm sure it's samus but...
Ness?

He's still quite bad... Don't know about long range game, and his aerials are quite comboable. I don't know about KO possibilities though...

Ness has a lot of options for KOing. A dependent one being his non-decaying back throw.

 

[Mikezor]

Samus or Yoshi I would say.

 

[WITH]

Thank you. Zamus does look pretty good on the surface, if you ask me, and that's where I disqualify her.

But I might also ask how Yoshi does not fit?

Yoshi does sort of fit, but the description is much more molded to Samus. First of all, yoshi's eggs are good, but they really don't make him a long range character. Yoshi is mostly about the aerials. I think yoshi's aerials are good, but i think they are more self explanatory than Samus's...hence, the "if you know how to do it right." Also, i think Yoshi's close range game just plain sucks...it really doesn't get strong even if ur a good Yoshi, while Samus's does.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Eh, Sonic at a far distance can't do anything. He can clear the gap between long-range and close-range quite quickly, but that's not attacking at long-range - that's, like After Dawn said, approaching FROM long distances to make CLOSE-RANGE.

THat is still considered a par tof your far range game.
For example Sonic can deal with far range.
Ike however cannot.

As I said, a long range game merely means you have options while at long range, not just because you have a projectile.

If anything it leads more towards Yoshi than Samus,

 

[Yoshi Kirishima]

I've now concluded that 'on the surface' does not mean as in you don't know anything about the character at all, but it means that you know the general, like may be you played them a few times or know general stuff about them.

I've now also concluded that, like how someone else said that the 'force to be reckoned with in the future' part of the clue is too vague, that although it seems to fit Yoshi more than Samus, it fits both so it doesnt really matter.

The part of the hint that says ' this character's short range game may seen like their weakest attribute ' is now pretty much screaming at me now. I looked at this statement a lot more generally, like from a casual player's perspective. COME ON, this is MOST LIKELY Samus. Think of it: Samus = projectiles. Samus runs all around trying to spam projectiles, doesn't want to use close range because they think long range is good/better. Run run run, runs some more, projectiles, oh no they're within my range darn it i can't spam more projectiles! . So yeah... My guess is now Samus.

If you think about it, how does Yoshi's short range game look bad? If you think 'on the surface', you see his smashes, OK they don't seem too slow but not too fast, they are nice power, they have nice range. Bair is really good for approaching and such. Nair is nice for very close range/being aggressive. Ftilt also has nice range and is fast, good for keeping them away from you.

Think about Samus... Ok none of my aerials are really strong at all, Fair a little too slow, fast chars can come and hit me before it starts shooting in front of me. Bair, nice power, but it has a narrow hit box and doesn't stay out long. Dair... ok that's only for spikes. Upair... they either have to be very close to you or a little above you... Ok none of these aerials seem too good for killing, I'd rather run around and shoot Charged B attacks, it kills a lot easier. Fsmash, low range, it's hard to hit them like this, again I'd like to just use projectiles instead. Upsmash, this attack has no power at all! What is this? Dsmash, hits them up nicely, but again WHERE Is the POWER?!?! That's it no more close range combat, it can't kill anyone at all.

(Ok may be some things were a little exagerated, but it was due to the purpose of making some of these differences more clear.)

 

[joeysmash]

Yoshi or Ness... i dunno lol

 

[Yuna-Maria]

It's probably Samus.

 

[Nitrix]

As I said, a long range game merely means you have options while at long range, not just because you have a projectile.

I disagree:

In order for a character to have a good long-range game, they must be able to do succeed without having to close the approach. If they have to approach then their long-range game is not very strong.

Thus, a long-range character almost always has a projectile. Yoshi and Samus are prime choices for the next week imo, and I'm leaning towards Samus.

 

[kkkoala]

At first I thought Lucario... I haven't seen any debate on that (I don't read to much of this thread, most is, in fact, shameless main plugging) but why not him? AS is good, BAS are good, he looks bad at close range but DT and FP hurt. His aerials combo very well IF YOU KNOW HOW =D

He seems to fit. Also, I saw him as crap until I learned to use him, but that could just be me...

hes missing the first thing, which is being underestemated, which he definately isnt.

ness. his easy to gimp recovery makes him underestemated, good ranged game, deceptively good close range and airials. his bair and fsmash r decent to ko wit but wut kind of loser gets hit by them too often.

 

[The Halloween Captain]

Yoshi and samus don't strike me as terribly limited in their powerful attacks.

Neither does Ness, for that matter. One thing the back room does like to do is view the potential of weak-looking characters as much greater than the public gives these characters credit for. However, I agree with the back roomers, in that it does seem like public opinion is to belittle the abilities of characters so as to make for few choices when picking a tourney-viable main.

Ness does sound like the best choice, however, unless someone can think of a specific reason why it isn't him.

 

[yoshiunity]

This seem to have Yoshi written all over it. IF not, possibly Lucario. Both rely on the presistent factor. Ones for his learning curve. Another taking damage and his learning curve.

I'll lean towards Yoshi on this one though. The whole "seem horrible"=(His reputation -_-) saying seems to be a dead giveaway. Not to mention he's known for his aerial game.

 

[WITH]

Yoshi and samus don't strike me as terribly limited in their powerful attacks.

Neither does Ness, for that matter. One thing the back room does like to do is view the potential of weak-looking characters as much greater than the public gives these characters credit for. However, I agree with the back roomers, in that it does seem like public opinion is to belittle the abilities of characters so as to make for few choices when picking a tourney-viable main.

Ness does sound like the best choice, however, unless someone can think of a specific reason why it isn't him.

I can! He doesn't struggle with KOing.

 

[Browny]

^
Ness' bthrow is too good. theres almost no need to get any opponent above 120% when youve got that.

 

[Jalaga]

hold on i need to rethink this post XD

 

[Mr Mattastic]

This is the easiest one yet. Lucario people

 

[KingK]

It's sure easy to come in and make your guess without reading any of the other posts huh?

 

[ShadowLink84]

I disagree:

In order for a character to have a good long-range game, they must be able to do succeed without having to close the approach. If they have to approach then their long-range game is not very strong.

Thus, a long-range character almost always has a projectile. Yoshi and Samus are prime choices for the next week imo, and I'm leaning towards Samus.

Except Samus has HORRIBLE projectiles.
Se doens't have a good long range other than her super missiles and Zair which isn't enough.
Her charge beam sucks and lacks killing power and priority.
missiles are broken by everything.

Sonic doens't always have to approach. Pit and Samus can't use their projectiles to force him to come close nor can Link. He is too quick and would easily take advantage of the openings.

A long range game doesn't mean you don't ahve to approach, you can have options while far away from the opponent, even if they do lead to an approach game.

however as I also said its a bit of a stretch so most likely it is Yoshi.

 

[Nitrix]

Except Samus has HORRIBLE projectiles.
Se doens't have a good long range other than her super missiles and Zair which isn't enough.
Her charge beam sucks and lacks killing power and priority.
missiles are broken by everything.

Her game is actually pretty good when used properly.

A long range game doesn't mean you don't ahve to approach, you can have options while far away from the opponent, even if they do lead to an approach game.

You don't understand.