Delta-cod
Smash Hero
Maybe everyone below him is just more terrible.
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Official SWF Tier List v8
- Thread starter Marc
- Start date
ChickenWing13
Smash Lord
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- Frosty93
F*ck the tier list!
Elyssa Xey Hexen
Broken!
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I disagree with Peach being worse than Sonic. Sadly, my impressions of sonic are few and far between. The only problem I see with peach is that she cannot get past being easily juggled. She has the worst options out of any character I think at getting back down when you look at how her mobility in the air prevents her from preventing the opponent from doing much.
Best(MK)
Air Dodge Lasts 39 Frames
Invincible Frames 3 – 28
Worst (Peach)
Air Dodge Total: 49
Invincible Frames 4 – 19
Lets couple this with one of the games worst fast fall speeds and air dodge is not very useful in the air. Then after this, floating is not all that useful in brawl, imo. Its still better to have it than not at all because you get greater control over your recovery, but still pretty much all characters will fall faster and accelerate faster up to peach when she is in the air. Simply wait out her float. 2nd jump is not extremely useful earlier in recovery because the height gain is pretty poor and slow to accelerate. And, because of her slower falling speed her aerials are not all that great for preventing people from attacking her. You can typically out space her in the air.
When peach is lower to the ground (short hop height) many of these faults are actually really good or negligible. Air dodge doesn't matter if you manage to do into the ground to avoid the lag. Float is rather useful for many ground related defenses and offensive attacks. The big plus to Peach over Sonic is having better ground tools. I believe she actually has guaranteed punishes on characters at lower percents that hardly any other character can claim. Many punishes are subject to well-timed attacks or appropriate DI. However, peach manages to work in guaranteed lower percents punishes that will work until you start getting close to 100% range. With the help of turnips, she can maintain a rather nice advantage near the edge.
Sonic reminds me too much of Falcon and Marth from melee. He has to rely more upon movement and waiting for the opponents to commitment to an attack before rushing in and getting a punish. However, his punishes like the most of the brawl cast are one hits before its still no longer really an advantage for him anymore.
Dekillsage
Smash Lord
It's not an issue of being smart. DDD's recovery isn't good and you can force him to up-b because even though he has multiple jumps they become ****tier with each jump he does. If he's up to his 3rd jump they start doing jack **** for ddd when he's off stage, and chances are he wont reach the ledge unless he was already over it.
This is what you do
1)knock ddd off stage/
2) jump at ddd and stay right out of fair range(char dependant)
3)If ddd does fair hit him and recover on stage. If he doesn't hit him anyways. If he turn around bairs chances are he used his jump. Good for you!
4) If he's over the ledge hit him before he reaches it, if he's under the ledge just stand there because he wont be able to grab it with his last few jumps.
5) punish up b with fair
Doesn't apply to smash "recover for free on a platform" ville
ChickenWing13
Smash Lord
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- Frosty93
I think players should start experimenting with low tiers nowadays, seeing as this game is now 5 yrs in the making. It would be pretty interesting to see a complete change in the tier list.
If only players would look at brawl in a more fun perspective rather than competitive, but nope its all about ranking and bringin in the dough
If only players would look at brawl in a more fun perspective rather than competitive, but nope its all about ranking and bringin in the dough
Dekillsage
Smash Lord
It's really fun to play a game where when you win it feels like you genuinely outplayed and outsmarted your opponent.
Then you fight metaknight and that feeling is lost.
4-19/49, good lord its that bad? I thought it was like 4-29.
Peach is a better secondary than Sonic, but Sonic is better overall. She gets trashed waaaaaaaaaaay too easily by MK.
What is Dark Peach even talking about with Snake. When had a top Snake lost to a Peach?
Peach is a better secondary than Sonic, but Sonic is better overall. She gets trashed waaaaaaaaaaay too easily by MK.
What is Dark Peach even talking about with Snake. When had a top Snake lost to a Peach?
Dekillsage
Smash Lord
You end up realizing you didn't out play the MK player and won because they killed themselves.
Don't know how you can outplay someone who has a character who has answers to everything, can't be edge guarded and can always return to neutral whenever he feels like it.
The best answer.
pidgezero_one
((((((((((( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) gotta go fast!
That does not disprove my sentence
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
You plug your opponent's controller back in and say GG.
Dark.Pch
Smash Legend
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Man, this won't be much of a challenge............oh well
And sonic does not do better than peach vs snake. I could break this down in a very simple format that does not even need for me to hit you with a text book of Peach knowledge. I will state one thing on this though. Sonic can not lock down snake when he gets in. I on the other hand can do that. Peach has one of the best 50/50's in this game when she gets someone on block or pressure. All Sonic can do is hit and run.
But as I said, Im just waiting for more BS answers as I been hearing thus far as to why he is better before I kill this.
He isn't and I can easily break down while. Im just waiting to hear all the ******** answers as too why people think he is a better character before I shut down this whole operation.
And sonic does not do better than peach vs snake. I could break this down in a very simple format that does not even need for me to hit you with a text book of Peach knowledge. I will state one thing on this though. Sonic can not lock down snake when he gets in. I on the other hand can do that. Peach has one of the best 50/50's in this game when she gets someone on block or pressure. All Sonic can do is hit and run.
But as I said, Im just waiting for more BS answers as I been hearing thus far as to why he is better before I kill this.
When has sonic mop the floor with a top snake?
I'm sorry, your trolling and reason is weak as hell. Are you even trying? I'm ticked people like you help with the rules of this community. This explains alot.Because Sonic can actually win.
Seriously all these comments to try and sound funny online and get at me are washed up. Can't you people be creative? This is hella weak and clearly shows you know nothing. Just jumping on the board wagon to seem cool and hide your heavy lack of knowledge. Comments like this just make my point every time and make me look good. If you are gonna come at me, at least try......
So you are saying Peach does better based on Sonic not winning the matchup either? If you are the smart one here, you should gladly show me some evidence that Peach is even remotely viable in the matchup. Just tell me the best snakes that have fallen to peach and when these losses occurred.
From now on, "Live and Learn" is "Hit and Run".
From now on, "Live and Learn" is "Hit and Run".
umm are talking to me or the peach guy?
Dark.Pch
Smash Legend
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I recall simply asking you when was the last time sonic mop the floor with a top snake....and it lead to something else such as this. guys make this too easy for me.
No top snake lost to a peach. Now if you dodge my question again, this means you bringing this up means nothing. if no sonic has mop the floor with a top snake, this question means nothing and holds no weight.
I ask time and time again why you guys think sonic is better. I'm actually making this fair and making you guys state your peace so this can be a fair clean debate (then I realize this is the smash community.......). And all I get back is stupid comments to sound cool and be one with the crowd online. Last chance before I make you look like the fools you are trying so hard to make me.
Why is Sonic better?
Dark.Pch
Smash Legend
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PC acting up. excuse double post
I asked first...
In any case, I didn't say Sonic does better. I personally think they are both so poor at the matchup its hard to measure because they both always lose. Since you've made the statement that Peach is better, I'd like to see what you've got that supports it. Aside from rambling theorycraft.
In any case, I didn't say Sonic does better. I personally think they are both so poor at the matchup its hard to measure because they both always lose. Since you've made the statement that Peach is better, I'd like to see what you've got that supports it. Aside from rambling theorycraft.
Sometimes you just use a character who goes.
OH MK
YOU"RE ON THE LEDGE?
OH GOODY
(Bonus points for there being an LGL and you having a percent lead)
Oh MK, you're above my head and don't have time to start gliding?
OH GOODY
Oh MK, you're off stage and I'm using invincibility from the ledge + broken aerials?
OH GOODY
MK is actually not a very good character
OH MK
YOU"RE ON THE LEDGE?
OH GOODY
(Bonus points for there being an LGL and you having a percent lead)
Oh MK, you're above my head and don't have time to start gliding?
OH GOODY
Oh MK, you're off stage and I'm using invincibility from the ledge + broken aerials?
OH GOODY
MK is actually not a very good character
Dark.Pch
Smash Legend
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Then there is no point in me getting into this. Why this whole thing was really why people think sonic is a better character in general. Im giving the others one more chance on this.
But I don't mind playing this game to make a point match up wise. Tell me just what can sonic do in the match up. There be no point in comparing anything if this is just one side. Tell me how sonic deals with snake and how he is suppose to pull off the win, and I will do the same in my next post.
But I don't mind playing this game to make a point match up wise. Tell me just what can sonic do in the match up. There be no point in comparing anything if this is just one side. Tell me how sonic deals with snake and how he is suppose to pull off the win, and I will do the same in my next post.
Why could Sonic be better in this game?
Because as a punisher from power shields, he is vastly superior to Peach.
The end.
Because as a punisher from power shields, he is vastly superior to Peach.
The end.
pidgezero_one
((((((((((( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) gotta go fast!
I nominate myself for SWF mod and BBR member
The last 5 pages of this thread made me cry.
in what way?
Dark Peach what do you want from me? I said they both suck. I said my part on overall viability of each character, but on this matchup I have no strong opinion one way or the other. I'm just asking for evidence to YOUR claim. I think you don't have any, which is why we are on "last chance" 3 or something.
If you have anything that supports your claim, say it now or admit your opinion is based on fantasy.
If you have anything that supports your claim, say it now or admit your opinion is based on fantasy.
Some times Dark.Pch has that effect on people.
LOL he would defend peach untill the end of the world but there's gotta be a point where you just got to to give up defending your character is the best unless it actually is the best character
You don't defend a character using opinions. You choose/prefer a character over others because it's your opinion that X character is your favorite one.
Not because you're obviously biased in your statements when Pikachu is concerned that everyone acts like you do.
I bet you he's going to have a really good time explaining how in 7 extra frames Peach can now usmash punish people for stocks and be the next Olimar.
yeah i see what you mean but i went as far as i can to defend pikachu. no one listened so i gave up. if anyone tries to bring it up again yeah i'll try my best to defend him but either way no one listens and lists the bad MU. and yea i admit pikachu sucks in some aspects but i feel he could do better if people give him a chance
You don't defend a character using opinions. You choose/prefer a character over others because it's your opinion that X character is your favorite one.
Not because you're obviously biased in your statements when Pikachu is concerned that everyone acts like you do.
bubbaking
Smash Hero
Can't believe I never read or even heard of this earlier. 
Oh hey, all the regulars + the regular <500 posts poster are here.
Oh hey, all the regulars + the regular <500 posts poster are here.
Player-1
Smash Legend
in my honestest onion pokmon traner is beter than peach
That Charizard powershield fsmash punish.
LEARNING THE WAYS OF ZERO SUIT.
LEARNING THE WAYS OF ZERO SUIT.