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Official SWF Tier List v8

Discussion in 'Brawl Competitive Discussion' started by Marc, Apr 25, 2013.

  1. Marc

    Marc Mega Admin

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    Introduction
    Below you will find the 2013 tier list for Super Smash Bros. Brawl. Unlike last time, this iteration is once again based on votes only. This wasn’t entirely by choice, as we were faced with the unfortunate reality that monetary data is no longer updated and matchup chart v3 will probably require at least another month before completion. Not all is the same as the tier lists of old however, as this time around we opted to ask the community for their opinion. Major thanks to Kewkky for overseeing this:

    Official BBR's Community Tier List Voting

    The above list was added to the 29 BBR votes and counted 5 times, meaning it ended up as roughly 1/7 of the total vote. In the Excel file below you will find the ordered list of characters with their point total, the standard deviations and highest and lowest ranking, in addition to the gaps between characters. Note that for each character the highest and lowest placing were not counted to somewhat correct for outlier votes.

    Excel file with final results: http://www.2shared.com/file/6hr0fu9a/Tier_List_Statistics.html

    This resulted in the following tier list:


    SWF Tier List v8

    Top Tier

    SS:
    :metaknight:(±0)

    S:
    :popo:(+2)

    A+:
    :olimar:(-1) :diddy:(-1)

    A-:
    [​IMG](+2) :snake:(-1) [​IMG](-1)


    High Tier

    B:
    :pikachu2:(±0) :zerosuitsamus:(+1) :wario:(-1)


    Upper Mid Tier

    C+:
    :lucario:(±0) :dedede:(±0) :toonlink:(±0)

    C:
    :wolf:(±0) :fox:(+1):gw:(-1) :pit:(+1)

    C-:
    :rob:(+1) :peach:(-2)


    Mid Tier

    D:
    :kirby2:(±0) :dk2:(+2) :sonic:(±0) :ike:(+1) :sheilda:(-3) :sheik:(±0) [​IMG](+1) :yoshi2:(-1)


    Lower Mid Tier

    E:
    [​IMG](+1) :pt:(-1) :lucas:(±0)


    Low Tier

    F:
    [​IMG](±0) :samus2:(±0) :bowser2:(±0) :falcon:(±0) :link2:(+1) :jigglypuff:(-1) [​IMG](±0) :ganondorf:(±0)



    Condensed version:
    SS: Meta Knight
    S: Ice Climbers
    A+: Olimar, Diddy Kong
    A-: Marth, Snake, Falco
    B: Pikachu, Zero Suit Samus, Wario
    C+: Lucario, King Dedede, Toon Link
    C: Wolf, Fox, Mr. Game & Watch, Pit
    C-: R.O.B., Peach
    D: Kirby, Donkey Kong, Sonic, Ike, Sheilda, Sheik, Ness, Yoshi
    E: Luigi, Pokémon Trainer, Lucas
    F: Mario, Samus, Bowser, Captain Falcon, Link, Jigglypuff, Zelda, Ganondorf



    The rules we applied were the following:
    -No single character tiers past top tier.
    -For the top tier (S-A), tier gaps were placed wherever character gaps exceeded 1.
    -For high and upper mid tiers (B-C), tier gaps were placed wherever character gaps exceeded 1.25.
    -For mid tier and below (D-F), tier gaps were placed wherever character gaps exceeded 1.5.
    -Sheilda was fixed in place directly above Sheik, as the benefits to the combination make that entity marginally better.
    The gradual increase in character gaps was implemented under the assumption that we can be less specific about character potential as we move to the lower parts of the list. Those characters are typically represented significantly less at a high competitive level than their higher tiered brethren.

    With Zero Suit Samus moving up, we found it was time to re-evaluate our tier labels and started high tier past the top 7, whereas before it started after Wario. We did this based on how people discussed the characters as well as where those who included tier labels in their vote put them. It was a somewhat tough call to make as the intuitive gap between Falco and Pikachu for many people is less pronounced than that between Wario and Lucario. However, the alternative would be to have a whopping ten characters considered top tier and have high tier reach even further, which seems like a stretch considering how few characters have solo success at the highest level. The ten characters currently considered top and high tier have an impact on the metagame and can be expected to place well in capable hands, a quality that quickly diminishes after.

    Finally, the tier list allows for more freedom for mid and low tier tournaments, as for the first you could opt to also include at least the C- tier, whereas for the latter you could opt to include the lower mid tier.



    Previous BBR Tier Lists
    v1 (September 1, 2008)
    v2 (January 1, 2009)
    v3 (June 5, 2009)
    v4 (February 26, 2010)
    v5 (September 25, 2010)
    v6 (July 4, 2011)
    v7 (April 28th, 2012)
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  2. GOofyGV

    GOofyGV Smash Ace

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    FIRST POST FOREVER!

    Edit: MK got a nice 2nd S now we only need a 3th one :ace:
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  3. -LzR-

    -LzR- Smash Hero

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    This came totally out of ****ing nowhere wtf.
  4. B0NK

    B0NK Smash Lord

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    It begins...
  5. Mr_L

    Mr_L Smash Journeyman

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    Luigi still not low tier
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  6. Myollnir

    Myollnir Smash Ace

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    ICs second, hype!
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  7. IT3M!

    IT3M! Smash Rookie

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    At least kirby didn't go down...
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  8. kyokoro_pamuyo

    kyokoro_pamuyo Moderator

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    Lucas made it up to mid tier by passing nobody. CALLED IT.
  9. B0NK

    B0NK Smash Lord

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    Stay hype on your throne of lies! [​IMG]
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  10. Delta-cod

    Delta-cod Smash Hero

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    FIRST PAGE!!!!!

    Yesh

    Constructive Edit: Marc, could you make the text not black? It's not too easy on the eyes with the default page coloration.

    Also, Wario has (+-1) next to him. I think he just went down 1 spot, though, so you might wanna remove the +. Unless the +- is there for some reason.

    ICs at second is amusing, to say the least.
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  11. teluoborg

    teluoborg Smash Champion

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    Can Sheilda and Sheik be considered as the same character now ?
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  12. Wusi

    Wusi Smash Cadet

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    fox +1 dabess
    though there need to be more fokses representing murica
  13. kyokoro_pamuyo

    kyokoro_pamuyo Moderator

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    Sheilda is a pain, the character exists, and has potential to be better than Sheik or Zelda alone, but Ed is the only one using it, so the character does not impact the metagame, but Ed does.

    Instead of Sheilda we could add Ed two spots above Sheik.
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  14. Sinbiga Doragon

    Sinbiga Doragon The Mystic

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    Falco has a "-2" but he only went down 1 spot since v7 I believe.
    Marth should also say "+2"
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  15. BSP

    BSP Banned (6 Points)

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    Lucas should've passed Luigi IMO. The latter has a near unwinnable MK MU.

    Also, what was the last Major ICs won? Idk about having them in their own tier.
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  16. Dekillsage

    Dekillsage Smash Lord

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    lol @ Ic's being in their own tier.
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  17. SSBBDaisy

    SSBBDaisy Smash Lord

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    These tier lists just get dumber every time a new one comes out.
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  18. GOofyGV

    GOofyGV Smash Ace

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    I like how high tier has 3 characters
  19. xDD-Master

    xDD-Master Smash Champion

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    Interesting new Tier List! I
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  20. Z'zgashi

    Z'zgashi Smash Legend

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    Sooooo much garbage
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  21. MaxwellMouse

    MaxwellMouse Smash Ace

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    Marth moving back up in the world. Are IC's really that good to be in there own tier. I expected them to be 2nd but not is their own tier.
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  22. SSBBDaisy

    SSBBDaisy Smash Lord

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    I was actually talking with ED about this at the last tournament I saw him at in Miami. I think since hes the only current shielda that is making an impact in the metagame we should just ditch the shielda icon and replace it with happy happy ED face. Maybe with his hat to???????????????!!! hype.
  23. Z'zgashi

    Z'zgashi Smash Legend

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    No, they arent, dunno why they have their own tier. Theyre really good, and probably #2, but putting them in their own tier implies they are an undeniable #2, and even in MK banned tournaments they arent anywhere near dominant enough to be considered an indisputable #2.
  24. Supermodel From Paris

    Supermodel From Paris Smash Hero

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    What a joke LOL

    No, seriously, Marth being top tier is the biggest joke I've ever seen. Marth barely justified his last tier list position let alone being good enough to jump two spots while the Apex winner only jumped one.

    BBR is full of retards.

    This tier list doesn't even give a basis for the discussion of the next one it's so wrong.
  25. -LzR-

    -LzR- Smash Hero

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    Don't blame the BBR. Blame the ridiculous idea of a community voted tierlist. I had no idea it was an actual vote >_>
    I thought it was just to see what the general opinion is and then compared it to the actual one, but instead random people got to make ICs #1 because everyone else says so.
  26. SSBBDaisy

    SSBBDaisy Smash Lord

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    *****es just need to learned to not get grabbed.
  27. Steam

    Steam Smash Hero

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    welp, Now D3 can ruin mid tier tournies. damn, just as soon as lucario finally ended up there too.

    and Marth top 5... is kinda a joke. but there's always been politics about that.
  28. GOofyGV

    GOofyGV Smash Ace

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    This is wrong lol. Only 1 person voted IC's on 1st place. Not even all people voted them top 2
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  29. Dekillsage

    Dekillsage Smash Lord

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    There's no peace to be found, anywhere.
    Whether or not Ic's is top 2 or 3 in the game is arguable.
    Whether or not they're in their own tier SHOULDN'T EVEN BE A ****ING DISCUSSION.
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  30. kyokoro_pamuyo

    kyokoro_pamuyo Moderator

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    Mid Tier tournaments can make the cut on C or C- and run perfectly fine.
    The thing is that DDD, Lucario and TL are too good for Mid and too bad for High.


    Marth is a fine character who goes even with everyone but MK in the Top Tier, he could beat everyone there but also could lose to a bunch of lower-tier characters because he goes even with a lot of them too.
    He had great results over 2012 and APEX 2013, while his +2 rise could mean more of Snake and Falco being less likely to win (overall) than he is.

    ZSS ***imo*** could've been a bit higher, either at the bottom of A- or the top of B (because I don't think Pikachu is that good of a character).
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  31. Marc

    Marc Mega Admin

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    A few things:
    -Both the BBR and the community decisively voted ICs as second. Note also that they have by far the best matchup spread after MK, which is unlikely to change with v3 of the matchup chart.
    -Both the BBR and the community put ZSS over Wario, but not many people put her higher than #9. If we hadn't made any changes to the labels, she would have probably been another top tier, but that would leave us with 10 top tiers and 3 high tiers all the same, as it would be a stretch to go past Toon Link for high tier. Brawl is a game where not too many characters fall in between the best and the mediocre characters.
    -Marth and Snake are pretty much interchangeable votewise, but IMO a jump over at least Falco is justified as Marth had two top 8 placings at APEX (as opposed to like two Snake mains in the top 32 who also used MK), has a good matchup spread and with his results can apparently do well in every major region.
  32. GOofyGV

    GOofyGV Smash Ace

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    I have to agree on this one
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  33. Supermodel From Paris

    Supermodel From Paris Smash Hero

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    I like how Marth only jumps in place relative to his current position

    Like, it never matters if Marth shouldn't have been where he was in the first place, if his placement improves he's gotta jump +2.
  34. Dekillsage

    Dekillsage Smash Lord

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    There's no peace to be found, anywhere.
    Ic's don't have a match up spread that is by far better than everyone else.

    Done with this though,
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  35. Z'zgashi

    Z'zgashi Smash Legend

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    Decisively voted =/= own tier, just because theyre the most popular pick doesnt mean they are dominant enough to warrant being an entire tier better. If you look at results, and even MUs, ICs, while probably 2nd best or at the least close to it in both categories, are only slightly better than the rest of the cast, and I can guarantee when looking at results, compared to all the other top tiers ICs would be around the 4thish area. Also, ICs DEFINITELY dont have 'by far' the second best MU spread, Oli's is VERY close behind and could arguably even be better.

    As for the ZSS thing, she won an entire national tournament, probably the biggest smash tournament there ever was and will be until smash 4, and all as a solo ZSS. How is that NOT top tier material?

    And for Marth, that one makes sense, dunno why people would make a huge deal about it, even if they disagree (which I personally do), cuz at least its plausible.
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  36. Osennecho

    Osennecho Smash Ace

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    Community average had Marth below both Snake and Falco. The average had him noticeably below Snake and barely below Falco.
    The Marth placement is pretty much a joke as far as far as I'm concerned. Yay 2 Marths did well at Apex. Ok well a ZSS outplaced them then it should also be the lowest in A or at least above Pika. After all Pika didn't do much this time. The argument holds no ground. Marths consistently do horrible in America.... Maybe it will help his meta (I hope) but a jump as high as he went is absolutely not warranted.

    Marth, Snake, and Falco should be B+ or something. They absolutely do not warrant being included with the characters above it. *Vomits hysterically and closes thread*

    Additionally getting rid of Hyrule Tier is a desecration to brawl.
  37. infiniteV115

    infiniteV115 Smash Hero

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    Yeah it's not like Apex 2012 was bigger for Brawl or anything
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  38. Z'zgashi

    Z'zgashi Smash Legend

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    Was it bigger? I honestly dont remember lol. And even if 2012's was bigger, this was still like, 2nd or 3rd biggest at the least.
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  39. FredFuchs

    FredFuchs Smash Apprentice

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    damn, no hyrule ++ tier anymore
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  40. BlueXenon

    BlueXenon Smash Lord

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    Here are my opinions:
    I was expecting Ice Climbers to be second for a long time.
    I am very suprised ZSS only moved up one spot. After what happened with Olimar last year, I expected ZSS to move up to where Marth and Falco are.
    I think Lucario is much better than King Dedede and Toon link.
    I was hoping Peach would have a huge drop, but people still think she is good.
    AlexoftheAura likes this.

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