Q&A Mechanics & Techniques Discussion

[Lavani]

I have not seen a perfect pivot with different lengths....

Well, now you have.

 

[UzakiuzuG]

Well, now you have.

This looks so sleek

 

[Sonicninja115]

Well, now you have.

Is it okay if I borrow the Gif?

 

[Lavani]

Is it okay if I borrow the Gif?

Go for it.

 

[Lavani]

There isn't an english resource for ledge options, but sixriver has the data on the third tab for each character.

If you don't want to deal with the language barrier and/or don't need character-by-character specifics, they don't vary much and can be generalized:

• All ledge options have their invincibility start frame 1.
• Standard getup takes around 34 frames and only has one vulnerable frame at the end.
• Ledge attack takes over 20 frames to hit, loses invincibility 3 frames before the attack, and takes around 55 frames total.
• Ledge jump is 12 frames and fully invincible, but being that one can't shield while airborne and airdodges have startup, they're still briefly punishable.
• Ledge roll is ~49 frames with the invincibility wearing off around ~24-33 frames in.

 

[Vipermoon]

• Ledge jump is 12 frames and fully invincible, but being that one can't shield while airborne and airdodges have startup, they're still briefly punishable.

Do you mean 12 frames to be airborne? And are you saying the only ledge jump vulnerability is the start-up of air dodge (so usually 2 frames)? That doesn't sound right.

 

[Lavani]

Well that's an awkward looking merge. I should probably edit that post for clarity.

Do you mean 12 frames to be airborne? And are you saying the only ledge jump vulnerability is the start-up of air dodge (so usually 2 frames)? That doesn't sound right.

Not 12 frames airborne, 12 frames from when you start the ledge jump animation. Your character spends most of that time on the ledge still, with invuln wearing off just slightly above floor height.

You're invincible the entire time you're committed to the ledge jump animation though, yes.

 

[Vipermoon]

Well that's an awkward looking merge. I should probably edit that post for clarity.


Not 12 frames airborne, 12 frames from when you start the ledge jump animation. Your character spends most of that time on the ledge still, with invuln wearing off just slightly above floor height.

You're invincible the entire time you're committed to the ledge jump animation though, yes.

Interesting... it seemed a lot riskier. I'll take your word for it because even with google translate I couldn't find the ledge stuff for each character.

 

[Jaxas]

Wait wait wait, if ledge jump is fully invincible and it's AD startup lag that's punishable, does that mean that Ryu could ledge jump -> TSRK and be fully invincible until the attack comes out?

I mean obviously it would lose to shield but that could still be pretty big...

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Wait wait wait, if ledge jump is fully invincible and it's AD startup lag that's punishable, does that mean that Ryu could ledge jump -> TSRK and be fully invincible until the attack comes out?

I mean obviously it would lose to shield but that could still be pretty big...

If it's buffered, yes.

 

[Lavani]

Wait wait wait, if ledge jump is fully invincible and it's AD startup lag that's punishable, does that mean that Ryu could ledge jump -> TSRK and be fully invincible until the attack comes out?

I mean obviously it would lose to shield but that could still be pretty big...

I haven't really looked into it myself but apparently you're limited in what you can buffer out of ledge jump. TheReflexWonder would know more about it than me, but I remember him making a video mentioning this awhile back.

 

[Masonomace]

On to the good stuff, weight dependent throws:​

Conditions: Mega Man in training mode on omega Gaur Plains

Using Foxy's frame advance method, it seems like heavies have a better frame advantage vs weight dependent throws because there is more time between the moment of being thrown (when damage happens) and the thrower's FAF.

Example: Mega's dthrow.

• On Lucario (weight 99) it hits on f16, and has an FAF of 40. I will use this as a baseline as it follows @Ffamran 's data.
• On Bowser (weight 128) it hits on f19 (+3), and has an FAF of 48 (+8).
• On Dedede (weight 119) it hits on f18 (+2), and has an FAF of 45 (+5)
• On Marth (weight 90) it hits in f15 (-1) and has an FAF of 38 (-2).
  
• On ZSS (weight 81) it hits in f15 (-1) and has an FAF of 36 (-4).
  
• On Metaknight (weight 80) it hits in f14 (-2) and has an FAF of 35 (-5).
  
• On Puff (weight 68) it hits in f13 (-3) and has an FAF of 32 (-8).

Full numbers will eventually be recorded for each character weight and all of Mega's throws, but I'm on mobile/don't have WiFi setup at my new place and wanted to share. I think it's very close to linear... But the numbers on dthrow on dedede (weight 119) mirror the numbers on MK (weight 80) while the numbers on ZSS (weight 81) are a frame different.

Masonomace - because shield Shulk implications.

References used:
Foxy's frame advance method
Ffamran's throw data
Kurogane Hammer weights

I like this. The Monado Shield art doesn't change Shulk's weight value, but it does reduce the knockback Shulk receives, which in ties reduces the amount of hitstun. So whatever Mega Man's Dthrow frame data for the hitbox activity & the FAF is when performed on another Mega Man, that should be the same for Shield Shulk since they both share the same weight value of 102. We'll see though!

 

[TheReflexWonder]

I haven't really looked into it myself but apparently you're limited in what you can buffer out of ledge jump. TheReflexWonder would know more about it than me, but I remember him making a video mentioning this awhile back.

Yeah, to my knowledge the only thing you can buffer out of a Ledge Jump is a Z-Drop. Because of that, you'd always have to wait a frame between Ledge Jump -> True Shoryuken.

 

[JUDGE]

[AT] Roy's SH-Fair => A-Landing (techskill challenge, need help)
________________________________

As you already know, Roy is able to jump out of his Sh- Fair as well as use any of his B-Specials due to the IASA frames of his fair.
BeefySmashDoods recently released a video covering A-Landing. If you havn't watched it yet, i'd suggest to go watch it now as it will be part of this technique. I'll link the video below.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbC_nNAMYsU

So i was thinking if Roy could use this technique to cancel out the landing lag of his SH-Fair by performing an A-landing during its IASA frames.
This would basically give us a safe shield pressure tool AND a safe approach option, as Roy will have no landing lag after performing this technique.
It would hugely enhance our neutral game and emphasize his mobillity and speed. You could cover aerial approaches, pressure shields, dash in and out afterwards or grab/roll/shield/ anything really (comparable to Melee Marths usage
of sh- fair).

The downside is: I havn't been able to perform this technique yet. This is why i ask you guys to help me on this.
In theory, im certain that it should work.
Here is the link for Roy's frame data : http://kuroganehammer.com/Smash4/Roy
As you can see, we have a 2 frame time window on his up-air and down-air to perform the A-landing.
You will notice that if you succesfully throw out an aerial before landing, you will be able to see the start up animation of the aerial. This is enough evidence for us to know that it should work on paper.
However as i already mentioned i havn't been able to perform it yet, not even on 1/4 speed, granted i couldn't try it for very long (half an hour at max)

So there you go. Pls discuss and if anyone is able to succesfully replicate it, pls post some footage here in this thread.
TY

 

[Lavani]

Standard aerial autocancels don't work in a way that allows you to do that. I don't know why for sure, but my guess is that interrupting the aerial doesn't remove the flag for landing lag. At best you can throw out a less laggy aerial just before touching the ground (in Roy's case, nair has 13 frames of landing lag to fair's 15).

Airdodge and special move landing lag isn't handled the same way, which is why you can aerial autocancel things like airdodges and PK Fire.

 

[JUDGE]

Standard aerial autocancels don't work in a way that allows you to do that. I don't know why for sure, but my guess is that interrupting the aerial doesn't remove the flag for landing lag. At best you can throw out a less laggy aerial just before touching the ground (in Roy's case, nair has 13 frames of landing lag to fair's 15).

Airdodge and special move landing lag isn't handled the same way, which is why you can aerial autocancel things like airdodges and PK Fire.

this would be quite disappointing. How do you know of this? Do you have any source?
ty for the reply

 

[Lavani]

Roy's not the first character people thought of this with. Canceling Palutena's uair landing lag with fair's autocancel was something I wanted to do early in the game's life, but even if you cancel uair with fair 1 frame before landing (her fair autocancels 1-3f) you still get fair's landing lag.

Diddy nair>dair is probably the easiest way to see it isn't functional, dair has a lot of landing lag and autocancels 1-16f.

EDIT: I had some time to kill so I recorded the Diddy example for proof.

 

[JUDGE]

Wow, so sad it has to be that way. But ty really much for taking your time to look into this. Greatly appreciatet.

 

[Lavani]

Interesting little quirk: if you land and use a special move on the same frame, the grounded special apparently takes priority over landing lag. Bowser can't aerial autocancel his SHAD, but he can avoid the landing lag by buffering a B move and the grounded version will come out, allowing him to SHAD into Fire Breath, Flying Slam, Whirling Fortress, or Bowser Bomb.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

Interesting little quirk: if you land and use a special move on the same frame, the grounded special apparently takes priority over landing lag. Bowser can't aerial autocancel his SHAD, but he can avoid the landing lag by buffering a B move and the grounded version will come out, allowing him to SHAD into Fire Breath, Flying Slam, Whirling Fortress, or Bowser Bomb.

Yeah the same goes for item throws. Link has the same thing going on with his SHAD.

 

[Yikarur]

this works for moves that don't have an autocancel window but would end the very next frame. You can do this with DKs fair on BF's side plattform -> ground (the downB then will be really buggy) and with Ganondorfs fullhop fair as well.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

Spotdodge Z-axis Data

I was doing some research on z-axis stuff for a friend and I noticed that there wasn't any detailed list of anything anywhere. I double checked a few moves that purportedly had z-axis hitboxes, and if I ever do a more thorough job looking into that or anything else I'll post it, but for now here's a list of all the z-axis stuff I could find on everyone's spotdodges.

Using http://kuroganehammer.com/Smash4 as a reference for spotdodge invulnerability frames, I used G&W's and ZSS's Jab 1 put out on specific frames covering specific parts of the character's hurtbox (with the help of a custom stage using a gradually sloping platform), to see if any parts of the character's hurtbox would avoid the Jab on frames of the spotdodge which did not have invulnerability. G&W's Jab 1 is a decent sized hitbox while ZSS's is a smaller one, so by comparing what can be avoided for both, you can get a pretty good idea of how far into the z-axis the areas are displaced.

Feel free to double check anything using these testing methods http://smashboards.com/threads/foxys-guide-to-testing-and-labbing.417822/ which I may update later to cover how I tested this.


Using G&W's Jab 1

Mario and Doc: back foot on frame 18.

Yoshi's: tip of nose on frame 2.

Bowser Jr's: head on frames 19 to 28; shell on frames 19 to 26.

DK: front leg on frame 3; front hand on frames 1 to 3 and 20 to 26; front arm on frames 2 to 3 and 20 to 26; back hand/arm on frame 2 to 3; head on frame 3.

Mac: back foot below knee on frame 1.

Samus: back leg on frames 24 to 29.

Pit and Dark Pit: front foot on frames 17 to 18.

Marth and Lucina: front foot on frames 18 to 22.

Ike: back foot on frames 19 to 26; back arm on frames 19 to 25.

DDD: the back half of his body on frames 20 to 22; head on frames 20 to 23.

Falco: head on frames 17 to 20; front arm on frame 17; front tip of foot on frames 17 to 20.

Pikachu: head on frames 16 to 18.

Charizard: head on frames 19 to 23; upper chest on frames 19 to 21; front hand on frame 19 to 24? (head gets in the way on 25); front knee (not foot) on frames 19 to 22.

Lucario: back leg on frames 16 to 17.

Captain Falcon: front leg on frames 19 to 29; head on frames 19 to 23? (arm gets in the way on 24); chest (armpit) on frames 19 to 22? (arm gets in the way on 23).

Villager: front part of head on frame 19.

Shulk: upper chest and head on frames 2, 19 and 20.

Pac-Man: front foot on frames 18 to 20.

Roy: front foot on frames 18 to 22.

Ryu: front foot (which was the back foot) on frames 2 and 18.



Using ZSS's Jab 1

Mario and Doc: back foot on frames 2 and 18 to 29; top of head on frames 2 and 18 to 22.

Luigi: back foot on frames 2 and 18 to 26; top of head above nose on frames 2 and 18 to 19.

Bowser: front shoulder on frame 3 and 20 to 26.

Yoshi's: head on frames 1 to 2.

Bowser Jr's: head on frames 19 to 28 (29 gets blocked by shell); shell on frames 19 to 26.

DK: front leg on frames 1 to 3; front hand on frames 1 to 3 and 20 to 26 (27 blocked by head); front arm on frames 2 to 3 and 20 to 26; back hand/arm on frame 1 to 3; head on frames 2 to 3 and 20; chest/shoulder on frames 2 to 3 and 20 (21 blocked by head); back leg on frames 2 to 3.

Mac: back foot on frame 1.

Link: head on frames 2 and 19 to 21.

Ganon: front foot on frames 20 to 28.

Samus: back leg on frames 1 and 24 to 29.

Pit and Dark Pit: front foot on frames 17 to 18.

Marth and Lucina: front foot on frames 18 to 24.

Ike: back foot on frames 19 to 27; back arm on frames 19 to 26; back middle area on frames 19 to 22.

DDD: the back half of his body on frames 20 to 23; head on frames 20 to 24.

Fox: head on frame 16; front foot on frames 16 to 17.

Falco: head on frames 17 to 22; front arm on frames 17 to 21; front foot on frames 17 to 23.

Pikachu: head on frames 16 to 20.

Charizard: head on frames 19 to 24; chest on frames 19 to 23; front hand on frame 19 to 24? (head gets in the way on 25); front leg/knee and foot on frames 19 to 25.

Lucario: back leg on frames 16 to 18.

R.O.B.: underneath the base on frames 18 to 26.

Captain Falcon: front leg on frames 19 to 30; head on frames 19 to 23? (arm gets in the way on 24); whole body excluding limbs on frames 19 to 26.

Villager: whole head on frames 19 to 20.

Wii-Fit: waist on frames 17 to 19.

Shulk: upper chest and head on frames 1 to 2 and 19 to 21; middle body on frame 19; back foot on frames 1 to 2 and 19 to 27.

Pac-Man: front foot on frames 2 and 18 to 23.

Mega Man: front hand on frames 19 to 21; front foot on frame 19.

Roy: front foot on frames 18 to 24.

Ryu: front foot (which was the back foot) on frames 2 and 18 (it is blocked by the other foot on the following frames).

 

[Yikarur]

wow insane work. This is crazy!

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Head and shell is, like...all of Bowser Jr., isn't it? Does that mean he has significant Z-Axis shenanigans almost as silly as Brawl Dedede? The FAF is 28, after all. x_x

EDIT: Never mind, You mean the shell on his back, not the car.

 

[Ulevo]

Does this mean that those characters with vulnerable Z-Axis frames would be more vulnerable during their spot dodges on a stage without a Z-Axis plane, such as Duck Hunt and Omega Flat Zone?

 

[Lavani]

Is there a reason you did the testing with G&W's jab? It has a fairly large radius to it (particularly for a jab) and lingers more than one frame, so I would think it reaches fairly deep into the Z-axis.

's jab only lasts 1 frame (and is frame 1), has fairly small hitboxes, and isn't tied to any bones so it's center with the playing field. I think it would fail to hit some spotdodge frames that G&W's hits.

Does this mean that those characters with vulnerable Z-Axis frames would be more vulnerable during their spot dodges on a stage without a Z-Axis plane, such as Duck Hunt and Omega Flat Zone?

It does.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

Is there a reason you did the testing with G&W's jab? It has a fairly large radius to it (particularly for a jab) and lingers more than one frame, so I would think it reaches fairly deep into the Z-axis.

's jab only lasts 1 frame (and is frame 1), has fairly small hitboxes, and isn't tied to any bones so it's center with the playing field. I think it would fail to hit some spotdodge frames that G&W's hits.


It does.

Yeah I'm glad you brought that up actually. It occurred to me after I had gone to bed that I had at some point assumed that G&W's hitboxes would also be on a 2D plane for some reason, and I had intended to retest everything with a smaller hitbox if this wasn't the case. This is the first time I've tested z-axis stuff so mistakes will be made. I'll re-post results later when I get time to do the testing with a smaller hitbox, but for now, the information above can still be used and may, if anything, give people a better idea of what is likely to avoid being hit with an average hitbox.

The fact that G&W's Jab lingers for more than 1 frame doesn't actually matter though because my testing methods can narrow things down to 1 frame, and I adjusted by 1 frame at a time. If anything, having the 2 frame hitbox actually sped things up slightly.


Edit: I did a bit of testing with ZSS's Jab 1 just then, and the results at this point in time are certainly interesting.
For comparison,
G&W's Jab1, decent sized hitbox, misses:
Mario's back foot on frame 18. And that's all.
ZSS's Jab 1 however, small hitbox, misses:
Mario's back foot on frames 2, and 18 to 29; top of head on frames 2, and 18 to 22.

I want to do this properly, checking each part of every character's hurtbox on spotdodge frames that lack intangibility, so it may take some time to get the full results (which I'll eventually edit back into the old post alongside the old G&W results to give people a comparison).

 

[Ulevo]

Yeah I'm glad you brought that up actually. It occurred to me after I had gone to bed that I had at some point assumed that G&W's hitboxes would also be on a 2D plane for some reason, and I had intended to retest everything with a smaller hitbox if this wasn't the case. This is the first time I've tested z-axis stuff so mistakes will be made. I'll re-post results later when I get time to do the testing with a smaller hitbox, but for now, the information above can still be used and may, if anything, give people a better idea of what is likely to avoid being hit with an average hitbox.

The fact that G&W's Jab lingers for more than 1 frame doesn't actually matter though because my testing methods can narrow things down to 1 frame, and I adjusted by 1 frame at a time. If anything, having the 2 frame hitbox actually sped things up slightly.


Edit: I did a bit of testing with ZSS's Jab 1 just then, and the results at this point in time are certainly interesting.
For comparison,
G&W's Jab1, decent sized hitbox, misses:
Mario's back foot on frame 18. And that's all.
ZSS's Jab 1 however, small hitbox, misses:
Mario's back foot on frames 2, and 18 to 29; top of head on frames 2, and 18 to 22.

I want to do this properly, checking each part of every character's hurtbox on spotdodge frames that lack intangibility, so it may take some time to get the full results (which I'll eventually edit back into the old post alongside the old G&W results to give people a comparison).

How would you reliably structure a lab test to test the Z-Axis frames on air dodges? Any ideas.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

How would you reliably structure a lab test to test the Z-Axis frames on air dodges? Any ideas.

Well I figured I'd cross that bridge when I came to it, but seeing as you're asking now, let me just think for a moment...
So obviously you'd want to be able to get it so that you're throwing out the same hitbox in the same area or e.g. a specific limb on different frames of the airdodge both early and late. Consistency is key as always.
Obviously you'd want to be taking advantage of a custom-built stage.
I would probably set up a custom stage with a spring beneath a solid platform, or perhaps multiple springs at different levels, then set up evenly spaced platforms next to it. That way I could use ZSS's Jab 1 on a character who is airdodging in the one spot up against the roof. Combined with the ability to access any frame at will, this would likely yield the kind of results I'd be looking for.
Of course that's as-yet untested, and if it doesn't work I'll just think of something else when the time comes. For now I'm just trying to get ZSS Jab data on spotdodges.

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

Can someone explain what BKB/KBG/FAF mean and how it's effective? It seems Lucas and Bowser got some buffs, but unless it explains damage or startup and endlag, I don't see how the numbers matter.

 

[Lavani]

Can someone explain what BKB/KBG/FAF mean and how it's effective? It seems Lucas and Bowser got some buffs, but unless it explains damage or startup and endlag, I don't see how the numbers matter.

http://kuroganehammer.com/Glossary

BKB is the base knockback of the attack
KBG is knockback growth, which affects how quickly knockback increases with damage
FAF is the frame you can start another action on. Essentially it's (total frames+1).

 

[ChikoLad]

I have a question regarding something I discovered for the first time for myself personally, but I'm not sure if it's new or unusual in general. Is this still the right place for that sort of question? I'm really curious about it and I can't find a place to ask. I also can't find any sort of tech that matches what happened to me.

 

[Pazx]

I have a question regarding something I discovered for the first time for myself personally, but I'm not sure if it's new or unusual in general. Is this still the right place for that sort of question? I'm really curious about it and I can't find a place to ask. I also can't find any sort of tech that matches what happened to me.

This is the right place.

Edit: if it's the walljump question then that's just a tech option, when you tech a wall you can choose to jump or not (I think it's just by hitting up/away on the stick, but I use tap jump so idk).

 

[ChikoLad]

This is the right place.

Edit: if it's the walljump question then that's just a tech option, when you tech a wall you can choose to jump or not (I think it's just by hitting up/away on the stick, but I use tap jump so idk).

And does this have a specific animation for it?

I guess I'll just post the images anyway.

Basically I was Rosalina and I got hit by Cloud's Climhazard after a failed gimp attempt, but I teched off the wall. However, while I usually just end up double jumping from something like that, what happened here was Rosalina performed a very distinct front flip animation after the tech that I don't believe I could interrupt. She doesn't do this anywhere else in the game, and I've never done it before. Normally when I tech, I just use a second jump, or if the character has a wall jump, I use their wall jump. I've never seen Rosalina do this before, though, and never happened across it in all my time playing and watching Smash. It's also worth noting that Rosalina is performing her "single jump falling animation" at the end in the last image, not the one from a double jump.

Spoiler

At first, I thought I might have just been ledge trumped due to this happening around the same time Cloud grabbed the ledge, but I double checked and her animation for being ledge trumped isn't like that at all. You can also see from the process of images, that Cloud actually grabbed the ledge well before I may have had a chance to.

And while I did search for "wall jump tech", all I could find were videos of characters like Mario and Captain Falcon doing something similar, but it looked more like they were teching, and then wall jumping with two distinctly different animations, so it looked more like people were just being creative and combining teching with wall jumping to me, since those characters have wall jumps. That's something I would do with characters who have wall jumps myself (which is all of my mains/secondaries besides Rosalina and Yoshi).

Rosalina doesn't have a wall jump though (so the previous thing I described isn't possible with her) and this is one, very specific animation I've never seen her do before (meaning this is intentionally coded and not just me exploiting the engine), so it really caught me by surprise. It sounds like you guys already know what this, but people were saying in that other thread that it should waste your second jump, but in this case, I don't think it did (I can't confirm though since I used Launch Star to get back after going down anyway, since it's faster).

I haven't seen this mentioned in the tips either (did a CTRL + F search for the word "jump" on the SSBWiki page for tips and didn't find anything matching this, just saw the tip for plain old teching). But it's definitely not me messing with the engine like those other videos I have seen, and is a very distinct wall jump animation for a character that doesn't otherwise have one. I thought it was new since I have never seen this happen anywhere before, and any video I thought might be showcasing the same thing used characters who had actual wall jumps.

 

[Pazx]

And does this have a specific animation for it?

I guess I'll just post the images anyway.

Basically I was Rosalina and I got hit by Cloud's Climhazard after a failed gimp attempt, but I teched off the wall. However, while I usually just end up double jumping from something like that, what happened here was Rosalina performed a very distinct front flip animation after the tech that I don't believe I could interrupt. She doesn't do this anywhere else in the game, and I've never done it before. Normally when I tech, I just use a second jump, or if the character has a wall jump, I use their wall jump. I've never seen Rosalina do this before, though, and never happened across it in all my time playing and watching Smash. It's also worth noting that Rosalina is performing her "single jump falling animation" at the end in the last image, not the one from a double jump.

Spoiler

At first, I thought I might have just been ledge trumped due to this happening around the same time Cloud grabbed the ledge, but I double checked and her animation for being ledge trumped isn't like that at all. You can also see from the process of images, that Cloud actually grabbed the ledge well before I may have had a chance to.

And while I did search for "wall jump tech", all I could find were videos of characters like Mario and Captain Falcon doing something similar, but it looked more like they were teching, and then wall jumping with two distinctly different animations, so it looked more like people were just being creative and combining teching with wall jumping to me, since those characters have wall jumps. That's something I would do with characters who have wall jumps myself (which is all of my mains/secondaries besides Rosalina and Yoshi).

Rosalina doesn't have a wall jump though (so the previous thing I described isn't possible with her) and this is one, very specific animation I've never seen her do before (meaning this is intentionally coded and not just me exploiting the engine), so it really caught me by surprise. It sounds like you guys already know what this, but people were saying in that other thread that it should waste your second jump, but in this case, I don't think it did (I can't confirm though since I used Launch Star to get back after going down anyway, since it's faster).

I haven't seen this mentioned in the tips either (did a CTRL + F search for the word "jump" on the SSBWiki page for tips and didn't find anything matching this, just saw the tip for plain old teching). But it's definitely not me messing with the engine like those other videos I have seen, and is a very distinct wall jump animation for a character that doesn't otherwise have one. I thought it was new since I have never seen this happen anywhere before, and any video I thought might be showcasing the same thing used characters who had actual wall jumps.

I'm not personally familiar with Rosalina's wall jump tech animation, but I can confirm that every character can do it. It does not waste your second jump.

http://www.ssbwiki.com/tech#Wall_tech_jump.2FWall_jump_tech

 

[ChikoLad]

I'm not personally familiar with Rosalina's wall jump tech animation, but I can confirm that every character can do it. It does not waste your second jump.

http://www.ssbwiki.com/tech#Wall_tech_jump.2FWall_jump_tech

Oh OK, thanks! Weird that I couldn't find anything on this anywhere else though, or that it isn't even in the tips.

 

[I speak Spanish too]

Well, now you have.

From this GIF, Fox's Perfect Pivot seems to have 3 different Perfect Pivot lengths.
The first his hindleg is lined up perfectly with the 3rd block.
The second his hindleg is slightly up on the 4th block.
The third his hindleg covers most of the 4th block.

My question is though is that are these all of the lengths for Fox's Perfect Pivot, and can all perfect pivots have 3 different lengths?

As for foxtrots, I have the same question.
I am able to a maximum range foxtrot and a shortest ranged one but are there also length divisions for foxtrots also?

This information would be very helpful to me! Thanks!

 

[Lavani]

From this GIF, Fox's Perfect Pivot seems to have 3 different Perfect Pivot lengths.
The first his hindleg is lined up perfectly with the 3rd block.
The second his hindleg is slightly up on the 4th block.
The third his hindleg covers most of the 4th block.

My question is though is that are these all of the lengths for Fox's Perfect Pivot, and can all perfect pivots have 3 different lengths?

As for foxtrots, I have the same question.
I am able to a maximum range foxtrot and a shortest ranged one but are there also length divisions for foxtrots also?

This information would be very helpful to me! Thanks!

I only showed three lengths to prove the point, I haven't made an effort to measure how many different lengths you can get. That number would be the same as the number of frames into a dash you can perfect pivot for though, since longer slide = waiting longer before pivoting.

I haven't looked into foxtrot mechanics beyond the basic level of executing them so I can't answer that question.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Deviating lengths for perfect pivots makes sense, since it's not just one frame of the dash animation that it works. I noticed a similar phenomenon with pivot grabs. All pivot grabs performed at a run should be the same distance due to having the same momentum, but the instant pivot grabs, those performed from a dash, have varying distances depending on how early into the dash animation that a pivot grab is registered. As far as I know, no character actually reaches maximum running speed on frame 1 or even the first 5 of dash.

 

[Sonicninja115]

Wouldn't there be as many lengths as there are frames in the initial dash? So if you can wait a max of 5 frames before turning, you would press right on the fifth frame to get the most distance. Or you could press right on the second frame to get the least distance.