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ZSS vs Sonic

Johnthegalactic

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I don't think I am too good, I know know never to use the grab unless I just landed a stun.

I think Sonic has a very cool moveset, enjoy playing as him, light-quick characters are my favorite.
Still, ZS Samus is my favorite.
Anyway, I think in a Sonic-ZS Samus match-up, ZS Samus has the advantage.

I think ZS Samus has a great recovery, but Sonic can really make getting back to the stage difficult for her.
 

Tenki

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Hey, if noone has anything else to add, I'm going to start compiling/condensing quotes and points that seem to be pretty solid concerning the matchup soon.

Need at least one person to reply to this thread one more time to agree/disagree, then I'm gonna start.
 

Snakeee

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Woah woah, that is not true about only using a grab out of stun. Yeah, it can be risky, but it has a good chance of connecting and if you don't use it people will shield camp you all day
 

ph00tbag

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Woah woah, that is not true about only using a grab out of stun. Yeah, it can be risky, but it has a good chance of connecting and if you don't use it people will shield camp you all day
SHHHHH! O_O
 

Tenki

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Shield camp ZSS because 'good ZSS players only use grab out of stun'

added.

loljk

but really, is this thread pretty much as far as it'll go for now? XD
 

pirateguru

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If anything I also believe that sonic has an advantage over a zss, but in now way the zss I have played are noobs. ZSS specials are very punishable by a Homing attack, a shield grab, or any sonic with a good spacing game. The only time I have ever lost to ZSS is when that ZSS stopped relying on his specials so much and started focusing on his a attacks (not smashes). He still even said he had trouble fighting me. I mean the only reason I came to this thread was to see how ZSS players feel about sonic only because I do so well against them
 

Tenki

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I still haven't fought a decent ZSS, but anyone who spams predictably gets punished by Sonic xD

btw I can get online at absurdly late times now lol.

So again, I ask, is what is posted in this thread pretty much all the information that there is to the Sonic / ZSS matchup?
=========
edit:
Tenki has played against Snakeee :D
 

Tenki

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I went up against Snakeee and well, the match is... very... even?

granted, I didn't win any whole matches, but there were times when it looked like I would have, if I could keep the pressure lol.

Too many games that boiled down to "first critical hit wins"

also, Sonic is too good with items.
And there are 3 items in the beginning of the match.

I'll post up a 'real' 'updated' description of the match-up later. It'll include moves and stuff from the Sonic side and hopefully someone from the ZSS side can confirm :p
 

ph00tbag

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Shield camp ZSS because 'good ZSS players only use grab out of stun'

added.

loljk

but really, is this thread pretty much as far as it'll go for now? XD
No, a good ZSS will probably u-tilt out of shield, as it's just about as fast as a normal shieldgrab, and puts you in the air against a ZSS. This is not something you want.
 

Adapt

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Hey Tenki, any chance of vids? I'd like to see a good ZSS-Sonic match. I don't think there is one online
 

Tenki

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^ i don't have any videos online.
recently i was thinking of using my laptop's webcam to record replays, but i really don't know how to use video editing tools to lower size or upload stuff on youtube xD

there's a small chance that Snakeee might have recorded our matches for some reason or another, but i doubt it. it was too 'random' since we just happened to be online on AiB at the same time last night.

No, a good ZSS will probably u-tilt out of shield, as it's just about as fast as a normal shieldgrab, and puts you in the air against a ZSS. This is not something you want.
i was joking about shieldcamping, in reply to another post ;P

it's a really neutral matchup, very momentum, stage, and player-based.
According to Snakeee, ZSS does well on Battlefield, which happens to be one of the worst levels for my playstyle, and flatter levels like smashville and FD are ... worse? xD
 

Adapt

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I tried using my laptop's webcam to record matches, but it worked terribly. The contrast was shot to hell, and you could barely make anything out. Then again, its not a very good webcam in the first place.
 

Tenki

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I tried using my laptop's webcam to record matches, but it worked terribly. The contrast was shot to hell, and you could barely make anything out. Then again, its not a very good webcam in the first place.
I'll mess around with it some other time. I have an LCD tv so there shouldn't be bars or crap like there are on some videos, provided I can convince myself to get into the whole video ordeal.

Temporary match-seeking [subject to edits]
my FC is 3394 3333 5293.
If you want a match, PM me and if I'm on SWF, I'll reply back and we can get one going. Otherwise, I'll be on allisbrawl.com's matchmaking service ;x
[edit]
vvv yeah, that's too true @.@;
 

Adapt

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I'll mess around with it some other time. I have an LCD tv so there shouldn't be bars or crap like there are on some videos, provided I can convince myself to get into the whole video ordeal.

Temporary match-seeking [subject to edits]
3394 3333 5293
I'll be free to play Brawl in about 20-30 minutes, if anyone wants a match. It'd be especially nice if it were anyone who has already contributed to this thread, since I want to see these techniques put into action.

[edit]
vvv yeah, that's too true @.@;
I don't have wifi for the summer, sorry. I would like to play even if I'm not as good as Snakee
 

Johnthegalactic

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I'll mess around with it some other time. I have an LCD tv so there shouldn't be bars or crap like there are on some videos, provided I can convince myself to get into the whole video ordeal.
I never really take videos, but btw, about LCD TVs, I might be getting one soon, then I will start recording my matches.
I am a pretty good ZS Samus player, I am a little behind on upper end techniques like wave bouncing(whatever you call it).
I havent played many people on Smashboards though.
 

Snakeee

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Tenki I did not record any, but I might actually have one or two saved on the Wii. I don't have any way to upload those though. If you want to record matches I'll definitely play you again.
And about the stages, I really dislike Smashville because it doesn't give ZSS that much space, and usually platforms are better than flat stages. However, against a character that lacks a projectile (like Sonic), they're pretty good, well FD is.
 

Tenki

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Summary?

Wow, I forgot about this thread. Heck, it's not even in the 2 pages anymore, and I had to search for it to find it. lol I'd like to think I've improved considerably since then, since apparently I can play on BF now and have worked on reading people and being more accurate.

ZSS mains, please feel free to correct, add, or anything.

Alright, so after playing against Snakeee a bunch more in the past month or so (wifi, sorry guys), I'll settle on this being an even matchup.

There are certain things to be taken into account aside from the usual Sonic disadvantages (priority,range,weight,projectile), so I'll try to address them.

The game is very momentum-based.
The beginning is crucial - if Sonic knows how to use them well and manages to take control of them, the armor pieces become a liability to ZSS. Sonic has one of, if not, the longest glide throw slides in the game, meaning he can do approaching slides while neutralizing your paralyzer, set up edgeguards to supplement his gimp game, retreat while attacking, as well as gaining a projectile to extend his reach. His speed can make taking control of items an issue.

PARALYZER...works. For the most part.

However, it is completely destroyed by Sonic's F-air. But don't feel bad, his F-air outprioritizes MK's side-B. Homing attack also tends to punish immobile shooters, so don't be TOO reliant on it.

Missed grabs are bad, but everyone knows that already. However, if he does a move with commitment to it (smashes, dash attack, initial charge to spindashes), you can grab him out of that, and accurate grabs are super effective.

Spotdodges are good, but aren't too abusable against a Sonic player, since many of his moves can cancel and have multiple ways of breaking out and punishing, or baiting moves and punishing your attacks.

If anything, some Sonic players prefer to D-air out of spring. If it's a grounded spring, you can camp the landing (it's about roll distance from the spring) with your punishment move of choice.

Other than that, I think the whole 'whoever gets under who' is pretty much right for ZSS. I play a pretty sh/ground-based game and less on juggling, but ZSS definitely feels like she has the advantage in an anti-aerial game.
 
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