• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

ZSS Move Discussion/My Insights

InterimOfZeal

Smash Champion
Joined
Apr 7, 2005
Messages
2,932
Location
Aurora, Colorado
Played Melee for 6 years, traveled OoS, won a few tournaments, placed top 4 in a lot more. Didn't really do anything with Brawl, aside from making top 5 at FR using Sonic, Jigglypuff, and Kirby. Beat HMW at OC3, though I think he wasn't really known back then? I'm not pro by any means, but, I'm decent enough, and here are my thoughts!

---

Jab. Seriously, it's either 1 or 2 frames. It gets you out of a lot of tight situations, and you can just jab and run away, or go for some sort of mix-up.

Don't be afraid to retreat. ZSS is at her most threatening when running away. Bair, pivot grab, reverse pistol, side-b, and the list goes on. I wish she had a moonwalk, but ohwell.

Her grab is equal parts terrible and incredible. It has ridiculous range, and a fair amount of active frames, but the recovery is just... oof. The easiest way to land grabs is retreating pivots, or via pistol pressure.

The pistol is weird to use at first, but I've grown to like it. It's essentially Sheik's needles, with much less priority, and it's lagless on the ground instead of in the air. If your fingers are up to it, dash, then sh a pistol, and dash cancel as soon as you land. You cover a lot of space, your pistol will clash with other projectiles (giving you a free approach while ivy lags from razor leaf), and you're left in a position to play her yomi game. Charged shots are ideal, but you can go into quick mix-ups with uncharged as long as you realize that you're both at a neutral position, and they have to play the guessing game vs you.

You can play ZSS many ways, but it's best if you can switch between her styles at will. She can do decent zoning using dsmash, sideb, pistol, and her various AAs, she can rush down with pistol, jab, and uair gimmicks (as well as sweet, sweet nair), with grabs thrown in to keep them honest. I think she's best at mid-low range (around 1/4 of FD), so I try to weave in and out from there. Similar to Marth, you threaten with your dashdance, range, and speed.

Dsmash is a fantastic, but hard to use and easy to punish, AA. If you guess right on where they're going to land, any trades that don't send you too far away to follow up are worth it. You get a lot of damage off this, and free mix-ups.

Usmash is what I use when I know upb won't hit, but it's so far otherwise not really worthy of note. I'll try to figure it out.

Dash attack is only good as a "get away", and that's only if they don't cc it. You can also use it to finish combos.

Utilt ehh. Probably could do nair>utilt. Idk

Dtilt is like Sheik's dtilt, maybe a little worse. It's fast as hell, though, so you can do stupid things on shield like jab>dtilt, run away> reverse pistol/pivot grab/side b/fsmash

Fsmash is really good, and really bad. Don't miss with it, don't use it at low percents. It covers so many angles, and at high percents the weak hitboxes can set up kills. The strong ones murder people, and I use this sparingly as an AA.

Ftilt is a really good poke, just don't get predictable with it. close-mid range "get off me".

On the subject of shoryukens, she has next to nothing. Once you're in on ZSS, pressure all day. She has particular trouble with GnW and Mario, due to their combos, CC, and close range games. If you don't control the pace of the match, you lose.

Use dair like a stomp, or to cross up their shield. You can do silly stuff at low percents like dair>dsmash, but it's really hard to set up. The hitstun on this is ridiculous. Also, you almost never need to l-cancel it (which messes me up sometimes.)

Fair is a kill move. That's about it, for me. You can use it as a combo ender, maybe like cf nair, but idk. She has better aerials. Not to say this move is bad.

Bair is pinpoint jigglypuff. Hits hard, is fast, but has a very precise hitbox. You can do WoP stuff with it, kinda.

Uair is still godly. You'll alternate between this and nair, mostly.

Nair is just... wow. Characters with high priority nullify the beam (gnw fair straight beats it, ugh), but other than that, it's incredible. I use it like a Marth fair, and it combos pretty much the same. shffl nair>shffl nair>uair is a pretty decent combo that works on a lot of characters, but with bad DI you could probably just nair all day. A good trick is to jab their shield, run to the tip of nair's range, and sh. If they drop their shield for almost any reason, it's a free combo. If they sidestep, ff and grab/whatever. If they roll away from you, you get pistol space (though not optimal) and are back at neutral, and if they roll toward you... wellllllllll

I'll write more about her b moves and grab later, but those are the basics that I've learned so far. Downb is a move I need to use a lot more, it gives her so much mobility.
 

Translucent

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 20, 2012
Messages
354
This is really useful to read, thanks for posting this.
I do feel like a lot of the time dtilt will be better than ftilt because you can space it from a bit farther back and you can follow up.
 

Yeroc

Theory Coder
BRoomer
Joined
Feb 28, 2004
Messages
3,273
Location
In a world of my own devising
Up B OOS is a halfway decent punish against people directly in front of you. It hits somewhere in the neighborhood of frames 4-7 (don't remember off the top of my head) and has positive advantage (~5-10 depending on %) on standing techs, about 20 or so for techrolls, and can get resets on missed techs iirc. Used in conjunction with proper followups on their tech responses, it's a good way to get yourself out of sloppy pressure.

Down B immediately after jumping OOS is a good escape if nothing else.
 

WhyNotTurtles?

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jan 7, 2013
Messages
11
Location
Berkeley, CA
ZSS Flipjump

When ZSS does a Down-B and B again on another character, it results in a Flipstool. I'm wondering how viable this is for gimping, because it seems devilishly tricky to pull off.

In other words, if ZSS sends an opponent flying off the stage, she can face away from the ledge, Down-B backwards, Flipstool, jump, and Up-B back to the stage. This would result in the opponent being pushed down further.
 

Meep

Smash Rookie
Joined
Feb 26, 2012
Messages
5
Location
Vancouver, BC
When ZSS does a Down-B and B again on another character, it results in a Flipstool. I'm wondering how viable this is for gimping, because it seems devilishly tricky to pull off.

In other words, if ZSS sends an opponent flying off the stage, she can face away from the ledge, Down-B backwards, Flipstool, jump, and Up-B back to the stage. This would result in the opponent being pushed down further.
I believe it also does a flipstool if you hit them on the way up with your Down-B (No need to hit B again in this case). I often find myself falling off the stage and then Down-Bing back onto it to push recovering characters down. It doesn't gimp characters with decent vertical recovery, from when I messed around with it. ):
 

Yeroc

Theory Coder
BRoomer
Joined
Feb 28, 2004
Messages
3,273
Location
In a world of my own devising
Flipstool was intended mostly for onstage use. I might reevaluate the in-air KB though, as the move is stupidly hard to land.

It's activated by having B held down while being in range of your opponent.
 

TheNix

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 4, 2008
Messages
306
Location
Newfoundland
Probably worth noting that her ftilt angled down can outright kill people for some reason. Still not a great move, but it can be useful.
 

G13_Flux

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 1, 2013
Messages
1,076
IMO, her ftilt is great for setting up a tech chase, especially since her grab is so potent when tech chasing an opponent with them by the edge. in regards to the OP, i dont see how u think fair is a kill move. its weaker than bair, and even that is not the strongest of bairs. but i still like fair as a good defensive wall against approaching opponents, and it is a good combo tool. also, whats a shoryuken? not sure ive heard that term before.

I will agree that ZSS is best in a defensive position due to her quick attacks, great OOS, and ranged, bulky hit boxes. she is also great when underneath her opponent. up smash is great defensively, and up b can be used as an offensive (combo starting or killing) alternative. her pistol is great for forcing reactions, and almost instantly can put an opponent in a disadvantageous position.
 

InterimOfZeal

Smash Champion
Joined
Apr 7, 2005
Messages
2,932
Location
Aurora, Colorado
Think ryu and ken uppercuts. A "get off me" move. Link's upb.

Fair kills earlier than bair, in my experience... How does move decay work in this game? Because I've killed with fair at 90%, whereas bair is normally in the range of 100-150.
 

G13_Flux

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 1, 2013
Messages
1,076
jab > dtilt > utilt is a good combo at lower percents, and it even leads into other stuff like uair strings, nair strings, dair combos, or an up b > tech chase/jab reset.

down b OOS could work if u were close enough to the opponent so that u could flipstool them. it could also just function like a WD OOS and quickly move you away from them with a little bit of invincibility to cover yourself. i could actually also possibly see it being able to rocket u behind the opponent quick enough so that u can use the second part of down b (the stall and fall kick) to punish.
 

InterimOfZeal

Smash Champion
Joined
Apr 7, 2005
Messages
2,932
Location
Aurora, Colorado
I completely forgot about this thread.

Souhh, I've been practicing a few stupid things

Ledge-canceled downb kick spam is really funny, and you can always land into fsmash or whatever, or jc the down b if it looks unsafe

Against some characters, you get stupid **** off grabs. Like, dthrow a mario below 20%, and watch his DI. If he DIs up and away, but doesn't immediately jump, you can walk forward, dsmash, then whatever. I like doing

dthrow>walk dsmash>nair>grab>dthrow>dair/nair>whatever

Or, more reliable

dthrow>walk dsmash>dthrow>dair/nair>whatever, depending on DI/percent/character

There's a lot more, I'll post laterrrr

But I feel like she's still mid tier, and very gimmicky. Idk, I need to see a good zss.
 

Naughty Pixel

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 12, 2010
Messages
168
Location
NH for college, MA for breaks
Just picked got back to college (where i left my brawl disc) really REALLY liking ZSS. has anybody mentioned that her down b acts as a (imo) better wave land for lower platforms? you can go from the stage to a side platform on battlefield for example, i dont think it will work on all stages but for some it puts you right on the platform for a tech chase as an example. its very nice im gonna look more into it. In addition, if you do it near a corner and do the attack out of it, it ledge cancels just after putting the hitbox out.

Another use for down b that i find could be used for a pretty nice mix up is as a tech chase on a platform. down b in the middle then watch for their decision, attack the side rolls, or come down for a get up.
 
Top Bottom