ZSS KO moves.

[SinkingHigher]

Hey all.

I'm training my new secondary main, Samus, and of course, at some point, I will need to be able to play just as good as ZSS.

I'm having trouble with her though. I'm used to strong characters, like Zelda, which can KO with pretty much every single move.

It seems like ZSS can only KO with >B and down-B

Am I right in thinking this?

Her smashes are really weak. F-Smash is almost useless. Perhaps I'm not hitting with the right part.
Her U-Smash is overshadowed by her ^B. If you're lucky, maybe you can spike with this.

Her tilts are alright, and her aerial game is good, but it''s just weak.

Can I get some pointers from you guys? She is a great character, and her speed and agility allow for combos which make up for the glaring lack of decent Smash attacks, but sometimes you just need to go for the quick kill.

 

[DarkShadowRage]

She can KO at 68% with a Fair or Bair.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOBlklzpdSg&fmt=18
You can see as that happend to me here, btw Bunny is from Smashboards.

and I just noticed I abused Side-b a bit much in that fight, but as bunny told me "You went berserk" she had beaten me in every round before that.

 

[wavelucas]

her Down B is an increadible spike, anle to kill with a Side B to Down B>A, B ,or Z can kill very qickly, along with her armor pieces

 

[DarkShadowRage]

Down B is indeed an incrediable spike, it's just landing it is the problem.

You have to be rather precise or you might SD.

 

[Orichalcum]

10 >B bairs

 

[Johnthegalactic]

for the down-B spike, I ground jump out, down-B spike, then return with my second jump to spare.

 

[Adapt]

Look at DSR's vid at 44 seconds in, that's the best way to get kills with ZSS imo, follow off the stage and bair/fair

 

[DarkShadowRage]

Look at DSR's vid at 44 seconds in, that's the best way to get kills with ZSS imo, follow off the stage and bair/fair

Just don't be doing that to ganon, or you could be having a nice hand to hand confrontation with a ganoncide >_>

 

[Adapt]

This works for ganon, but it's good for a lot of characters:
go under him and try for an up-b spike, if he airdodges, then hop and use bair/fair. If done correctly you hit him just as the air-dodge wears off and he doesn't have time to ganoncide you. If he doesnt air-dodge, he gets spiked

 

[zero5]

Hey all.

I'm training my new secondary main, Samus, and of course, at some point, I will need to be able to play just as good as ZSS.

I'm having trouble with her though. I'm used to strong characters, like Zelda, which can KO with pretty much every single move.

It seems like ZSS can only KO with >B and down-B

Am I right in thinking this?

Her smashes are really weak. F-Smash is almost useless. Perhaps I'm not hitting with the right part.
Her U-Smash is overshadowed by her ^B. If you're lucky, maybe you can spike with this.

Her tilts are alright, and her aerial game is good, but it''s just weak.

Can I get some pointers from you guys? She is a great character, and her speed and agility allow for combos which make up for the glaring lack of decent Smash attacks, but sometimes you just need to go for the quick kill.

i usually KO with a bair, fair, side b, and on occasion a fsmash.. her down b isn't really reliable as a KO move but when used properly it catches opponents off guard..

her uair can also kill at high %

her usmash is usually used for hyphen smashing and a great way to rack up damage.. and her up b -> dsmash -> up b is a good combo but i believe people can DI out of it (need verification) if they know its comming.. the biggest difference between the usmash and the up b is that you can use the up b in the air.. this gives Zamus a great advantage in her air game.. also if used in the air correctly it pulls people down to you and give you a clear hit for a bair, uair, fair and if you land before you can pull of an areial you can up tilt..
here's a great example in the link: video by Claw http://youtube.com/watch?v=Gzp5GgikJuM

hope this helps

 

[DeliciousCake]

Aerials.

10 bairs

 

[Cboy]

Down Smash should be a near KO if you ever hit with this when the opponent is over 80% damage, you must remember you can execute ever single one of ZSS including air/ground/special attack from a down smash, the fate of the enemy is in your hands. So be creative for a beautiful ko.

 

[DeliciousCake]

Down Smash should be a near KO if you ever hit with this when the opponent is over 80% damage, you must remember you can execute ever single one of ZSS including air/ground/special attack from a down smash, the fate of the enemy is in your hands. So be creative for a beautiful ko.

Wrong. ZSS' short hop is too high to land an aerial straight out of a D-smash.

 

[Cboy]

your wrong mines never fail, you will never master zss is your unable to air attack out of a down smash.
its all about timing, if you master the timing of the stun you can air attack when they pop upwards from the stun
check this out.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=B6JjjdoCLOA

 

[DeliciousCake]

0:55 - Marth pops out of d-smash stun into b-air. That is not on the ground.

Frankly, your opponent sucked. If you were playing that online, he must have had horrible lag. If you weren't, he is an absolutely horrible smash player, or was purposely sandbagging that round to make you look good.

 

[DarkShadowRage]

0:55 - Marth pops out of d-smash stun into b-air. That is not on the ground.

Frankly, your opponent sucked. If you were playing that online, he must have had horrible lag. If you weren't, he is an absolutely horrible smash player, or was purposely sandbagging that round to make you look good.

Cake, let's try not to let this explode into an all out flame war please? >.>

 

[Cboy]

how bout i try that out on you, and you will see what i mean. i can do stuff with zss that you can only dream of.

 

[DeliciousCake]

Yeah, sure. Come play me in person and we'll see how many of those you pull off.

 

[DarkShadowRage]

how bout i try that out on you, and you will see what i mean. i can do stuff with zss that you can only dream of.

And you, please stop with all the egotastic crap.
=/ If you wanna show your stuff fight cake in person then.
Prove to him you are better, but seriously...don't say you are all that and a bag of chips unless you can prove it.

Just chill out will ya?

 

[Cboy]

Well lets get back to the basics, My original point was simple and correct before cake tried to correct me, you can execute all of zss attack after a Down smash, the target is stunned for 3 sec, depending on damage when they pop up from a stun they are unable to perform any, dodges/attacks when they pop up for a short duration.

 

[James Sparrow]

how bout i try that out on you, and you will see what i mean. i can do stuff with zss that you can only dream of.

lol who are you?

 

[DarkShadowRage]

lol who are you?

James your sig still makes me blink everytime you post

 

[James Sparrow]

I'm glad ahahhaa

 

[Cboy]

Your not getting the point cake... here is the point, what i am saying is you can execution any move you want to ko on a enemy out of a down stunned here is a example of simple ko out of a down stun.
down smash+ forward Special
down smash+ down smash+ BAir
down smash+ down smash+Fair
down smash+ down smash+ Uair
these are all ko from down smash that does alot of damage and will never fail if you execute with proper spacing and timing. do you understand now cake. if you master the timing of down smash you can execute alot of finisher. and those are a few. here is another
if you opponent is by a ledge and you stun them from max distant. you can do this spiking combo if you time it right.
down smash+ down smash+Down special and form the kick at the right time inward you can spike a opponent. if you perform it right. trust me i have play some of the best i am also rank 14 SSBBplayers.com so i am not some noob.

The higher damage your opponent has the higher the stun will pop them in the air leaving them open to you air attacks. that is why this combo are all consider to me to be a finisher and they do well over 30 damage for the most part

 

[zero5]

your wrong mines never fail, you will never master zss is your unable to air attack out of a down smash.
its all about timing, if you master the timing of the stun you can air attack when they pop upwards from the stun
check this out.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=B6JjjdoCLOA

0:55 - Marth pops out of d-smash stun into b-air. That is not on the ground.

Frankly, your opponent sucked. If you were playing that online, he must have had horrible lag. If you weren't, he is an absolutely horrible smash player, or was purposely sandbagging that round to make you look good.

ok.. i agree with Cake here about Cboys opponent sucking.. he/she did actually suck.. doesn't DI properly and he just ran into you d-smashes about half the time.. kinda looks fake..

on the other hand.. Cboy, yes d-smash -> whatever works.. but you shouldn't be so egotistical about it or your "skills" in Brawl.. the game is still young and no one can say their the best right now.. but about the video.. it seems like you're promoting that website on YouTube.. you only have one vid on that profile.. so stop hiding.. if you wanna prove that your good then show us your real video page.. other than that.. don't come on here and say that you're "superuber1337omgwtfpwnd" at Brawl..

 

[Adapt]

I'm pretty sure you can do a bair out of a single dsmash... but only at high percentages (above ~80 but different for each character) otherwise they can escape easily. if you do a single d-smash, you can SHFF a bair and hit them before they leave the stun animation. I'd create a short vid, but I don't have capture equipment or even a camera.

and the video cboy mentioned is not how to do it at all... the marth there sucked.

 

[DarkShadowRage]

I have to say something about that video though.

It sucked, the ZSS was pretty bad.
The marth was horrible.
You relied soley on your dsmash, you didn't even use your armor parts and i'm not even sure why.
You did nothing amazing in the video at all =/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbKURHvRdUc This > http://youtube.com/watch?v=B6JjjdoCLOA

 

[Cboy]

well, i think many of you are missing the point... in the video i was just showing for example how you can execute aerial attack out of down smash move THATS IT OMG IT! nothing more and of course there are always ways to escape combo DI AirDodge jump, you can always catch people off guard no matter what!!!!!! people are not ever perfect even pros, you can get nearly anyone with combo if you can them off guard!!! I am not in any way criticizing anyone i am just trying to help the person who made this thread. The same people in ever single zss thread criticize people with really no reason at all, i am just trying to pass helping information.

 

[Adapt]

I must say, that cake vid was pretty **** sweet DSR

Players who aren't as good (like me) need more battles like that to learn from

 

[DarkShadowRage]

Yeah, cake was amazing in that video.
I try not to gloat about myself though, I think i'm pretty good but I play online alot.
But the people I play with have really good connections, and are useully really skilled. XD
I think i'm about adverage but Bunny is from smashboards(You guys might know her Kawaii Bunny) She's REALLY good, she had beaten me in every match that day up untill that, but they were all close.

Also Claw is amazing.

 

[Adapt]

I think I could be better, but I have like 2 people to play against regularly, and a few other friends, but I'm the best in our play group and I can't really get better playing the same ppl again and again

other problem: I only have wired internet for the rest of the summer (I'm away from home working), so I won't get to play online. and I'm not buying the stupid usb-ethernet adaptor

btw (and on topic lol), is there a kill percentage list for Zamus's moves? It would be nice to have for reference. I have general idea's, but no specifics

 

[DarkShadowRage]

I always know there will be someone better than me, so I never really call myself amazing.
I just practice with ZSS every single day, I mean hell since I was never into competitive Melee, I learnd everything from the ground up again.

It felt great, now i'm working hard to becoming really good with ZSS, i was amazed how far i've come in just 2 months of time XD.

And I will continue to work hard as ZSS
Hopefully one day, i'll be at a tournament and win.

 

[DeliciousCake]

Your not getting the point cake... here is the point, what i am saying is you can execution any move you want to ko on a enemy out of a down stunned here is a example of simple ko out of a down stun.
down smash+ forward Special
down smash+ down smash+ BAir
down smash+ down smash+Fair
down smash+ down smash+ Uair
these are all ko from down smash that does alot of damage and will never fail if you execute with proper spacing and timing. do you understand now cake. if you master the timing of down smash you can execute alot of finisher. and those are a few. here is another
if you opponent is by a ledge and you stun them from max distant. you can do this spiking combo if you time it right.
down smash+ down smash+Down special and form the kick at the right time inward you can spike a opponent. if you perform it right. trust me i have play some of the best i am also rank 14 SSBBplayers.com so i am not some noob.

The higher damage your opponent has the higher the stun will pop them in the air leaving them open to you air attacks. that is why this combo are all consider to me to be a finisher and they do well over 30 damage for the most part

MY point was that you cannot aerial someone who is still on the ground. If we've misunderstood each then we can come to an agreement on that. Also, I personally feel online rankings give people 0 credibility, so just because you may be rank 1 or 50 or 20684677 I really don't give a ****. I still stand by my point that the Marth player was absolutely horrendous.

And learn to ****ing type properly, you're an eyesore.

 

[DarkShadowRage]

Cake, cake...how bout some pie?

 

[25%Cotton]

if you get the opportunity, do flip jump with an early kick. this will hit them HARD (if you kick too late you'll just spike them... which of course is worthless over ground).

also you technically CAN fsmash... but it's worse than sideb.... it's only really useful in dsmash chaining (when sideb doesn't really work well)

bair is very strong. fair is good if you can time it to get the SECOND kick in. dthrow+uair+uair kills prett well also.

mostly i think i kill with bair and uair.

 

[James Sparrow]

I heard that side b kills other characters.

 

[DeliciousCake]

I heard that side b kills other characters.

You're a liar.

 

[ph00tbag]

MY point was that you cannot aerial someone who is still on the ground.

Well, with falling aerials you can. Also, against taller characters, you can pull of SH bairs and uairs on grounded opponents. It's tough, but it's doable.

 

[DeliciousCake]

Yeah, but if you try and hit someone who's stunned on the ground with a falling aerial you're going to take too long.

 

[SinkingHigher]

I haven't tested this with ZSS, but, as Zelda, if you QUICKLY slide your thumb from X to A on a GC controller, she does an f-air almost AS SOON as she leaves the ground. You can f-air as if it was a smash attack, pretty easily.

I don't know about ZSS though. I can't get hold of my Wii for a few hours.

(LOL that sounds dirty.)

Anyway, thanks guys, for the help. Thanks DeliciousCake and CBoy for the drama.