ZSS Hit-confirms

[Supermodel From Paris]

So ZSS is a character where hit-confirms matter a lot.

Up until now the convention has been that if you land d-smash once, you should do it again and then follow up, but if you don't land it, you should buffer something else like jab, dash attack, dtilt, or dash attack.

After watching Salem's videos though I came away asking why he doesn't d-smash twice. I asked around a bit and the consensus seems to be that you have about 5 frames to hitconfirm an uncharged dsmash which is pretty close to being impossible, close enough that the risk/reward ratio isn't really in your favor.

...and come to think of it, I've seen even the best ZSS players get punished for using dsmash twice (when they think the first one is going to hit and it gets shielded). I mean, when you know dsmash is coming it's a pretty easy move to simply hop over and punish.

So, guys, are we doing it wrong? Should we dsmash one time? My brain, it ´splodes.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

I always dSmash once, except if I'm sure it'll hit twice.

You basically have to anticipate whether it will hit or not.

 

[Dr. Tuen]

This may be a strategy that's more palatable for newer ZSS players as well. I'll be the first to admit that I'm somewhat weak on getting hard reads... so as I'm learning, this is a fantastic way to protect myself from a poorly chosen dsmash attempt.

My question is this: if you dsmash and jab and both hit, what do you still get as a follow up afterwords?

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

All the things you normally would've had, except on low percentages where jab breaks the dsmash stun.

 

[Ussi]

if someone knows the 2nd dsmash is coming, they can do a lot of OoS. I know i would Pika fsmash inbetween dsmashes OoS. That's takes 22 frames to do too, so imagine what others can do.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Dsmash is safe on shield the second time too, as a clarification. But yeah there are all kinds of nasty things they can do between dsmashes. I got kneed by Falcon this weekend lol

 

[Dakpo]

you don't do it when you close >_< , if your too close then you jab or something else.

Edit: maybe I'm Old timey...but i think its totally worth. I also disapprove of the other Zss Down Smash Combos, we can usually get more out of it than one down smash -> Staling our best kill move (bair)
I personally love Dsmash->Dsmash->Back sweet spot of Nair-> follow up
Although there are a lot of times when it takes you a second to realize that you got the down smash...if this happens DONT STALE BACK AIR
like at 2:03 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bef31MGxSmk

But usually i can get 2Xdmash to combos like that, you can see it if you watch my other videos


EDIT: which is odd because Salem is the one that showed me how good nair is but he NEVER used it :/

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

@Tuen: At low percents it isn't very smart to buffer a jab or dash attack because it breaks the stun and then you're at a disadvantage. At low percents try buffering a dtilt, dash in the other direction or mix up with grab or don't dsmash at all without a good read, which is probably the best answer. Really if you dsmash at low percents you should try to be fairly certain it will land because most of the buffering options are unsafe on hit.

EDIT: Obviously not true for characters on whom our jab combo completes.

 

[Dr. Tuen]

@SFP - the low percentage thing is very good to know, thanks!

@Dakpo - dsmash --> nair looks epic! I'll have to try that sometime!

 

[culexus・wau]

I downsmash once so my follow-up is more ambiguous.

sometimes I do sneaky things like a whiff a sideB in the blindspot and then uair them when they DI up

 

[NickRiddle]

I double d-smash when people air-dodge in, or when I think it's going to hit.
I get punished for it, but you can still get predicted and punished for d-smash 1.

Also, for combos...

D-smash x2 > DA > u-tilt at very low%.
D-smash x2/1 > falling uair > rising uair/up-b/u-smash around 30% - 40%.
D-smash x2 > falling nair > DA > u-tilt sometimes
D-smash x2 > falling nair > u-smash if they DI the other combo


Be creative.
There's also grab, don't forget. We get good **** off of grab, and if you don't think you can get more than one hit in after your d-smash, u-throw does 11%~

 

[Dakpo]

up throw makes me cringe everytime i see the animation...I literally think I'm getting hit by my opponent when I up throw XD......throw up

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

D-smash x2 > DA > u-tilt at very low%.

This doesn't work at low percents.

It doesn't work until the first hitstun transition (when dash attack can connect to itself).