Zhu tourny vids. I am in desperate need of feedback.

[TheZhuKeeper]

here are some vids of my falco from a recent tournament (11/03/07). it seems that i'm a lot more reliant on laser camping and just waiting it out to win my matches, or at least that seems to be the case when i'm scared to approach. so, if anyone has any ideas on how i can find / force openings without just sitting there and laser camping, please let me know. also, if anyone has advice for luigi, that would be a lot of help as well. i got ***** by a luigi player named foxroar in pools and i desperately need luigi advice. i can't seem to kill it!

Zhu (Falco) vs SilentSpectre (Falcon)-1
Zhu (Falco) vs SilentSpectre (Falcon)-2
Zhu (Falco) vs SilentSpectre (Falcon)-3

Zhu (Falco) vs Meep (Luigi)-1
Zhu (Falco) vs Meep (Luigi)-2


if you're bored, you can watch these. these were all from the same tournament

Zhu (Falco) vs Tang (Fox)-1
Zhu (Falco) vs Tang (Fox)-2

Zhu (Falco) vs Zelgadis (Falco)-1
Zhu (Falco) vs Zelgadis (Fox)-2

Zhu (Falco) vs ShadowBTZO (Sheik)-1
Zhu (Falco) vs ShadowBTZO (Sheik)-2
Zhu (Falco) vs ShadowBTZO (Sheik)-3

 

[captainlukey]

you camp just a bit bro... lol

ummm, you seem to be doin good when it comez to openings,
perhaps dont shl so straight up like that, maybe you should waveland a few empty short hops in between, just to throw them out...
you play well tho.
i cant really think of anything else to say to help....
but definately dont be so straight up with the lasers.. use them to force an opening
AND DONT CAMP SO MUCH.... lol
good falco man
keep it up,
as for me im still workin on gettin a phantasm stall kill in my vid.... lol
peace zhu

 

[captainlukey]

sorry bout double post,
yeah luigi is tough for me too, i find i cant combo him conventionally (nair chains etc) because he can nair alot quicker out of it than other characters... and he is hard to shine combo cause he floats too high up at low percents...
but with luigi maybe u should be laser camping...

other things i found that help with luigi (provided he doesnt cc that often)
i find nair into uptilt works, then he is in perfect reach for combos and it will be hard for him to get out of it if your combo is like nair, uptilt, nair ,shine (or uptilt again), and repeat that untill you cant possibley do it anymore then he should be killable, and then downthrow, dsmash or somfin like that... should be sweet...
but yeah i hate luigi... hes not so bad if your a mario, but because were in falco specific i spose were talkin bout fighting him as falco... dont u just hate that....

 

[Big_R]

i just thought of this awesome combo on floaty ppl. like at early percents when u w/e shine them then dair them down onto flat ground, they will probably do an aerial and you can't up tilt or shine them, right? then u just l cancel ur dair and hold it to a shield, wait for the aerial and jc shine from shield and then they will pry be at enough damage to dair them back down into and up tilt or something.
or maybe i just saw someone do that. i don;t really remember.


anywho, u should laser camp luigi more. when u edge guard just edge hog. i know you can stall so just wait fire stall or whatever until they up b, then just roll onto the stage. or u can back air them if they are at the right height.
keep falcon off the platforms. full jump lasers and fastfall it if necessary to get the right height.. you did it to fox so i don't know why u didn't do it to ss on dl64. then when they get back on the ground just approach with lasers spaced right into nairs. and watch for their nairs to grabs and all that.

also good **** cuz i don't think u fel for the clod zero, but maybe ss didn't pull it off completely...

 

[captainlukey]

i just thought of this awesome combo on floaty ppl. like at early percents when u w/e shine them then dair them down onto flat ground, they will probably do an aerial and you can't up tilt or shine them, right? then u just l cancel ur dair and hold it to a shield, wait for the aerial and jc shine from shield and then they will pry be at enough damage to dair them back down into and up tilt or something.
or maybe i just saw someone do that. i don;t really remember.


anywho, u should laser camp luigi more. when u edge guard just edge hog. i know you can stall so just wait fire stall or whatever until they up b, then just roll onto the stage.

lol yeah everyone knows about the stalling...

 

[?!?]

I might be of some help I can spam lasers like you and know how to approach when I need to gonna watch the vids now. I also know how to **** falcons. Try lasering falcon and watch what he does usually falcons roll towa rds you when they are being pressure by lasers too much try waiting for the rolls and grab them or they high jump knee you when they are getting **** by lasering. try laser pressuring him to high jump as he high you do the mid air jump lasers so he can get hit by then then approach with a grab or a nair or a dash dance to nair shine

 

[?!?]

Aslo try making your shl lasers high so they hit falcons short hop nair they are helpless when they are getting lasered to death watch them roll towards you or a predictable easy to read high jump. Also try ot predict when falcon comes out of his shield and throw out a laser while he junos out of his shield thne apporach after that. watch forward vs darkrain or isai. watch as he laser pressure isai to jump so forward does a midair triple lasers to own him. pivot lasers are real good agasint c fal when they are shielding your laser.

 

[Ryan-K]

Yeah you kind of have to camp fox because he's such a ***** with his **** speed so yeah -_-.

Luigi don't even try to combo him just hit him in the air and make it hard for him to land. Im pretty sure dair and bair beats his sex kick.

more later

 

[Aldwyn McCloud]

ok well.. your Falco seems to play a lot like mine and kind of reminded me of forward as well (meh.. probably it's because I took forward as a model lol). Anyway speaking of your style, you definitely developed an enough solid control on your technical skills and you can keep comboing your opponents quite well but what you seem to somehow lack is patience. I noticed (can't really tell which part of which video atm) you took some hits that could have been avoided. And you shouldn't take this kind of risks because as you know after a hit follows a combo on fastfalling Falco and after the combo follows a nasty edgeguard on his poor recovery. The biggest evidence I can provide you about this is your weakness to Luigi which I don't think is a really hard match up. Luigi can be a pain because of his insane priority but has got a really hard time getting past Falco's lasers, ABAs and Utilts because he's too slow. All you need to do against him is being patient, sometimes run away and time well your moves. In order to kill Luigi just send him off stage and from there edgeguard the hell out of him as his poor recovery isn't really a life insurance. Spacing away from Luigi rocks (you can also check this video although it's a bit old http://youtube.com/watch?v=EeJL60xhvlo)

In order to avoid getting hit so often the first advice I can give you is to stay away as long as you can from your opponent but you seem to have come up with this on your own as you improved a lot your lasering game. Laser camping makes your opponent lose his patience so he'll just make a mistake and from there all you need to do is punishing it, connecting with a shine and begin a combo. Also watch your own videos again and try to understand the reason that caused you to get hit every time you got, try to think at what you could have done in order to avoid it. Generally if you ask me Falco's approaching skills are overrated. Any high level player will just predict your moves and counter them, the best way to approach is just having your opponent make a mistake first and only after that attacking. Lasers are the best way to do this.

Anyway, I loved the match against Zelgadis' Fox

 

[captainlukey]

thats some spicy luigi advice...

 

[killer tofu]

Haven't watched the vids yet but Zhu is my favorite space animal user in CA(Except for maybe lunin, lol). Why are you asking for help?

 

[EazyP]

Asking for Luigi help, he's a weird match, and a fast faller rapist

Hey Zhu, next time Pluto has a tournament or whatever in Palo Alto, just message me about it, I was the Luigi shirt guy who's Bowser you 4 stocked

Your biggest problem from what I see is that against Luigi you literally show your fear. Where was the Zhu that didn't let my Bowser up-b with his speed and wall of attacks? Not there, much more hesitant. Work past that

 

[Oskurito]

Don't feel bad for camping the hell out of people.

Advice against luigi:


-I think falco's bair has more range than any aerial luigi has, just space it well ...
-You were being too agressive, camp more instead
-Try to use CC into dtilt at low% (then follow it with jump>shine>bair or uptilt if he doesn't DI at all or whatever...)
-Go for 3-2 hit combos. A nair will usually pop up when you're trying to go further, and it will completely screw you. Comboes that work well against him can be : nair/dair>uptilt into uair or bair, you can follow it with dair>shine on a platform at the right %(very situational) hopefully you'll be able to combo him into a couple of shine dairs then shine/uair for the kill/win
-Watch out for well spaced aerials they can't be shield grabbed(as well as down wavesmashes) don't use your lightshield if you're going to try a shield grab, and keep in mind he can jab right out of his double aerials, usually dair>nair>jab>grab(shine out of shield>bair or w.e. after the jab or between any of the aerials).

I'm surprised this luigi didn't cg you at all.....

Pick FD and camp the hell out of him

 

[technomancer]

Ok the luigi advice on this forum is bad overall. First of all, there's no need to be excessively campy, just use your lasers to bait his offense and take advantage of the openings he offers. He'll offer some eventually and regularly, and you're pretty much 100% on your punishing so that's not a big deal. If you want to be aggressive against Luigi, you gotta rock the gay. Jab cancels and F-tilts, anything that would make another character lol. Just keep building that damage and keeping that jab spacing and keep him in that shield when you can. Try not to be in close and on the defensive, or really on the defensive at all, just try to keep controlling him and take advantage of openings.

Really where Meep was getting you was on some missed techs and tight spots from what I saw, but you let him recover much too much. Lightshield edgehog owns luigi like no other. If he looks to be going high you can almost always hit him with a backair and rinse and repeat.

You're very safe, that's the most important thing against Luigi, is to stay safe.



vs. Silentspectre, he seemed like he was afraid of you, and you played very well in matches 1 and 2, but got a little predictable by the third match, he kept overshooting your camps with nairs and it was getting you pretty good. Honestly, I think you had it in the bag but the pressure got to you and you kind of squandered, missed a couple of techs and easy spots to shield. I pull this all the time, the excitement of being a little ahead going into the last stock is major, and then little mistakes = dead falco, double so because it's falco.

I haven't fixed this for me because I suck at smash, but get your Falco together with a buddy and work up an endgame strategy. Just put together the gameplan, how you're going to start and finish the last stock, so you don't have to drop your invulnerability against Silent Spectre and then try to do either exactly what he's been catching onto for twelve stocks, or make something up on the spot and rely on his mistake. It's all mental here; the same opportunities will still knock but you have bonus points for gameplan and mixing it up and knowing exactly what's going on = more tournament wins.

 

[Aldwyn McCloud]

Don't feel bad for camping the hell out of people.

Advice against luigi:


-I think falco's bair has more range than any aerial luigi has, just space it well ...
-You were being too agressive, camp more instead
-Try to use CC into dtilt at low% (then follow it with jump>shine>bair or uptilt if he doesn't DI at all or whatever...)
-Go for 3-2 hit combos. A nair will usually pop up when you're trying to go further, and it will completely screw you. Comboes that work well against him can be : nair/dair>uptilt into uair or bair, you can follow it with dair>shine on a platform at the right %(very situational) hopefully you'll be able to combo him into a couple of shine dairs then shine/uair for the kill/win
-Watch out for well spaced aerials they can't be shield grabbed(as well as down wavesmashes) don't use your lightshield if you're going to try a shield grab, and keep in mind he can jab right out of his double aerials, usually dair>nair>jab>grab(shine out of shield>bair or w.e. after the jab or between any of the aerials).

I'm surprised this luigi didn't cg you at all.....

Pick FD and camp the hell out of him

-yeah, Bair is very good for spacing, however watch out as I'm pretty sure Luigi can have you and your opponent both get hit using Dair/Fair, however that requires insane timing.
-CC isn't good, Falco can't keep it up to high % and it can be screwed easily because of Luigi's Dsmash.
-while comboing him the really important thing is keeping him in the air, just like Peach.
-Luigi can avoid pretty easily shield grabbing, but because he lacks a proper fastfall he is vulnerable to Usmash out of shield and any other aerial that has got enough range to catch him.

 

[DEHF]

Zhu why are you asking for help? you don't need it your already amazingly good

 

[captainlukey]

everyone needs help at some stage...
be they awesome
or be they not so awesome...

 

[spKz]

Zhu is obv too good at smash and should quit to give us other falcos a chance ^___^

 

[Miharu]

Zhu is obv too good at smash and should quit to give us other falcos a chance ^___^

He's asian, he can't do that :/

 

[EazyP]

He's asian, he can't do that :/

Quoted for extreme truth

 

[spKz]

He's asian, he can't do that :/

Haha That made me laugh XD ^___^

 

[captainlukey]

he cant be too asian...
he can stall...
lol

 

[Miharu]

he cant be too asian...
he can stall...
lol

You've never met him in person. You can't say that.

 

[captainlukey]

You've never met him in person. You can't say that.

u cant tell me wat i can and cant say...
so shut up

 

[MagiMaster]

It seems that you try to predict too much rather than reacting to what they do. And that cause you to do mistakes when then don't it. In the first vid of you against SS at 0:51, you went for a edgehog while he was clearly not going for it. When characters that moves really fast are near you, you should stop doing SHL (note that this is because you're camping) instead I think that a shield grab would work better. At 2:06 u get kneed when you could have shield grabbed him. Another example of you trying to predict rather than react is at 2:24 when you grab him and toss him out of the stage. You should have went for a spike. That attack would have worked if he landed on the ground. Running away from falcon isn't the best thing to do since he move a lot faster. You got hit by his nair a few time while running away to prepare a SHL.

Id say that you should try to react more often. Maybe you are playing too technically, thus paying less attention on the enemy. You sometime miss easy kills because you didn't go right away for the edgehog/guard.

 

[terr13]

SS too good, he knows what you do before you do it and knees you in the face. I heard he knows the results of the match down to the percentage before it starts.

 

[TheZhuKeeper]

It seems that you try to predict too much rather than reacting to what they do. And that cause you to do mistakes when then don't it. In the first vid of you against SS at 0:51, you went for a edgehog while he was clearly not going for it. When characters that moves really fast are near you, you should stop doing SHL (note that this is because you're camping) instead I think that a shield grab would work better. At 2:06 u get kneed when you could have shield grabbed him. Another example of you trying to predict rather than react is at 2:24 when you grab him and toss him out of the stage. You should have went for a spike. That attack would have worked if he landed on the ground. Running away from falcon isn't the best thing to do since he move a lot faster. You got hit by his nair a few time while running away to prepare a SHL.

Id say that you should try to react more often. Maybe you are playing too technically, thus paying less attention on the enemy. You sometime miss easy kills because you didn't go right away for the edgehog/guard.

mmm, shieldgrabbing is almost obsolete these days. you try to shieldgrab ss, you will get genlteman'd unfortunately. and you're right, i do mess up edgeguarding sometimes, it's just alot of times when i edgehog he ends up going too far and i can only hit him towards the center of the stage, and that resets everything.

 

[captainlukey]

i know wat u mean by obsolete... i almosst forgot it existed...

 

[terr13]

I heard SS only dies when he's too lazy to DI.

 

[MagiMaster]

mmm, shieldgrabbing is almost obsolete these days. you try to shieldgrab ss, you will get genlteman'd unfortunately.

That a reason to do it he wont expect it Just kidding. But how about taking the first two punch and grab before the knee?

 

[TheZhuKeeper]

That a reason to do it he wont expect it Just kidding. But how about taking the first two punch and grab before the knee?

lol you've never played a competent falcon before have you >_>. you cannot grab in between the jabs. one option is to crouch cancel the jabs and hope to shine / dtilt in between but most falcons can jab -> gentleman fast enough so that nothing can be done. wait why am i giving advice in a "i want help" thread >_>

anyways, you're definitely right about not lasering when he's close. he does hit me before my laser comes out and that hit will usually lead to a grab / tech chase. i'll keep it in mind xD

 

[technomancer]

I'm watching the Fox matches and overall, I think you are much too lenient against Fox off the stage, and that you miss some opportunities because you move a little too quickly and they outwait you. in Zelgadis 2 on PS I'd like to see a kill at around 3:00, it was a great setup.

 

[Miharu]

u cant tell me wat i can and cant say...
so shut up

Do you even realize the hypocrisy of this statement?

 

[MagiMaster]

lol you've never played a competent falcon before have you >_>. you cannot grab in between the jabs. one option is to crouch cancel the jabs and hope to shine / dtilt in between but most falcons can jab -> gentleman fast enough so that nothing can be done. wait why am i giving advice in a "i want help" thread >_>

Your right, I haven't played anyone good actually because is live in noob town. Anyway it's okay for you to give advice, because it's like defending your point. Also by eleminating possibilities people can look for other ways.

And for the luigi, I don't see how your having trouble. Do you have the vids against foxroar?

 

[Aldwyn McCloud]

lol you've never played a competent falcon before have you >_>. you cannot grab in between the jabs. one option is to crouch cancel the jabs and hope to shine / dtilt in between but most falcons can jab -> gentleman fast enough so that nothing can be done. wait why am i giving advice in a "i want help" thread >_>

anyways, you're definitely right about not lasering when he's close. he does hit me before my laser comes out and that hit will usually lead to a grab / tech chase. i'll keep it in mind xD

try using shine shield between the jabs, that might work although I'm not sure.

 

[MagiMaster]

He did mention that shine/dtilt was a possibility, but doesn't work most of the time.

 

[shanus]

I've been incorporating a bit more JC shield shines into my game, can work out fairly nicely against falcon if he slightly overshoots his nair when trying to hop lasers. Prolly won't help you against someone with spacing as nice as SS's, but definitely can be applied occasionally. Although most shield grabbing is not worthwhile nowadays, I am starting to find more and more uses for JC shield shines.

@Aldwyn, as I just mentioned, shield shines only will work on an overshot aerial (that is, landing too close to your shield, they space the punches to outrange your shine), something a smart falcon will prolly know to avoid against falco

The main thing I guess is to try and just capitalize on when they do make that mistake by tossing in a little more variation into your ground game so that its not always lasers, but sometimes short hop wavelands to toy with his ability to space properly. Risky, but I think your a solid enough player to pull it off!

 

[captainlukey]

Do you even realize the hypocrisy of this statement?

do u realise... SHUT UP!!

 

[Miharu]

do u realise... SHUT UP!!

Do you realize the futility of telling someone to shut up over the internet?

 

[captainlukey]

Do you realize the futility of telling someone to shut up over the internet?

gets my post count up...
u silly ****