ZGD: Livin by a thread.

[Alacion]

Oh well I'll just main Ghirahim.

Also, Zelda lost her Ocarina of Time and old woman colours.

 

[Rizen]

^ ?

 

[ぱみゅ]

Judging from this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1hkSUGgPC8

God, this game is SO pretty.
Animations are smooth, presentation itself is simple but the effects added to remark something (characters being selected, character winning, results screen, etc) are just beautiful.

 

[SupaSairentoZ7℠]

That video started off my day nicely. XD

 

[KayLo!]

Thanks for the bday wishes, everyone! <3 Did anyone besides Aleate go to the demo? Nice info btw, esp hearing a little more about her new special.

 

[Kataefi]

Happy birthday kaylo... *a song for you*

Did you do anything nice?

Din's Fire is confirmed to not be transcendent and was cancelled by Pikachu's nair. Din's also has decreased range and still puts you into fastfall. Din's doesn't seem to slow down your fall speed when used in the air.

Urgh... that's no good. Transcendence is pretty much the best thing it could get without really changing the move too much. Now people can SH aerial her again without any sort of threat. Hoping the phantom or her kicks cover that diagonal blindspot she has when defending!!!

Btw I don't think we should be too bothered about the range/speed nerf as people airdodged it anyway in brawl.

Dtilt works just the way it does in Brawl... minus the tripping.

Oh good it exists! Rejoice!

Everything else seems a bit alright. Phantom is the one that looks really cool tho... like what would the opponent be able to do on the ledge with the way the new invincibility mechanics work?

 

[Rizen]

The downB phantom might be able to combo with other moves. For example phantom>Dins could be a good way to stop characters who camp Zelda if the phantom blocks their projectiles.

 

[Final Fujin 2]

Okay so.....

Din's Fail getting worse range, a smaller hitbox, STILL putting her into freefall and not letting her fall slower.
Smash attacks still having people pop out of them (keep in mind most of these are casuals who weren't trying to SDI, or let alone even know what it is).
Up tilt, one of ha best kill moves getting much weaker.
She can't transform to Sheik


And what buffs does she have?

B throw is stronger.
Farore's getting a litte faster and not falling straight down?
HOPEFULLY her grab is better?

I don't even know tbh...

Like let's face it, unless she is SEVERELY changed from the way she is now or there's a move that's super good that were missing....
she is going to be bad.

All of her aerials appear the same, so she's going to be pretty bad in the air again.
Easily juggled, and unreliable aerials.
I wish he would have given her a new f air instead of the same move for b air and f air.

She's still slow and not going to be able to approach, din's looks worse and not faster so she's not going to be able to force an approach either.

Yeah she has phantom, but one linear special doesn't make up for the huge problems she has.
Problems that never got fixed.

I'm going to have my fingers crossed her grab is much faster while retaining it's range and hope Naryu's isn't mega punishable.


If not, Im gonna have to find a new main.
I can't deal with a trash character again in smash.

 

[KayLo!]

Thanks & also wtf Kata, lmao!

I just went out drinking with a bunch of friends, nothing too special. Too lazy to really plan anything this year. ;; Guess that's what happens when you get ooooooooolllllldddddddddd.

& putting all my top/high tier hopes into WFT and Rosalina. Pika's looking solid but didn't really get anything new, so that's kinda boring.

 

[Fluttershy]

Btw Kaylo did that team work out for the maison? i managed to beat the super triples and obtained my gold trainer card

Spoiler

I used
Clefable Calm @ leftovers
unaware 252 hp/sp def 4 Sp atk
Moonblast
moonlight
cosmic power
Flamethrower

Greninja Jolly @ King's Rock
Protean 252 Spd/Atk 4 hp
Rock Slide
Waterfall
Nightslash
Shadow Sneak

Infernape Jolly @ Focus Sash
Iron Fist 252 atk/Spd 4 hp
Fire punch
Mach punch
Close combat
Thunder Punch

Haxorus Jolly @ life Orb
Mold Breaker 252 atk (can't remember other evs but i split between def and speed)
Dragon Dance
Earthquake
Poison jab
Dragon Claw

Venusaur Bold @ Venusarite
(Mega Ability) Thick fat 252 Def/Sp Def 4 hp
Giga Drain
Leech Seed
Amnesia
Nature Power (Tri Attack)

Cof. Bold @ Sitrus berry
Mummy 252 Def/Hp 4 sp atk
Will-o-Wisp
Hex
Energy Ball
Haze

and yeah I'm also looking for a new main if Zelda doesn't make the cut..

and happy late birthday

 

[KayLo!]

It did not lol. Lost at battle 37 to Gengar sleep hax. Then lost again in the 20's to Jynx sleep hax, & new 3DS almost went out the window.

Buuuuuuuut then I beat Super Singles easy with this broken ass team:

Spoiler

Adamant Scrappy Kangaskhan @Kangaskhanite
252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
- Fake Out
- Return
- Earthquake
- Sucker Punch

Adamant Gale Wings Talonflame @Life Orb
252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
- Brave Bird
- Flare Blitz
- Bulk Up
- Roost

Bold Water Absorb Vaporeon @Leftovers
252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA or SpD, I forget
- Scald
- Toxic
- Wish
- Protect

So now I have my silver card. ! Being lazy and trading 5IVs over GTS to fill up the rest of my Kalos Dex.

 

[~automatic]

Kloz is doing IV training? Why?

 

[KayLo!]

Idk, I like breeding and trading. =X

......Also Prime gave me a hacked 6IV Ditto, so that makes it like 1000000x easier. All my other pokes are legit though, including a shiny Marill that I don't even want. (aka someone please take it from me.)

 

[Fluttershy]

I got a 6 iv Ditto (japanese) that was hacked as well. You're guaranteed to get a 4-6 iv pokemon each egg if you breed ditto (with 6 ivs) with a pokemon with 5 ivs. and i got a few shines from it as well (masuda Method and shiny charm ftw)

What does the marill have?

 

[KayLo!]

Thankfully I was lucky enough to get multiple 6IV parents for Fletchling, Ralts, Gastly, Larvitar, and Mawile, so getting 5IVs for GTS is cake. Waaaay less effort than trying to evolve everything.

& the Marill's not that great. Huge Power Jolly 4IV (I think in Atk, Def, SpA, and SpD, not 100% sure off the top of my head), and it knows Belly Drum and Aqua Jet. It was a dud along the way to trying for 6IV parents -- which I never got, but I don't even like Azumarill, so I gave up pretty quickly lol.

 

[Rizen]

& putting all my top/high tier hopes into WFT and Rosalina. Pika's looking solid but didn't really get anything new, so that's kinda boring.

Rosalina looks like she will play a little like Lucario; being floaty and having big long lasting hitboxes. She could be good but it depends on if she's effective or ends up being gimmicky (lol, generic smash insight).
WFT is hard to judge without seeing her power and exact speed stats. She could be like Snake's close combat game. Or she could be exploited/shut down by other characters like C Falcon was in Brawl.
I think Pika's the one character who's always been top tier. I guess it's a 'why fix what's not broken' thing.

 

[ぱみゅ]

I was doing so well against Super Singles until someone used Ice Punch against my Hippowdon, made a crit and then Frost my 'mon.
What are even the odds for that to happen?

Gah.
Then again, I haven't even started raising pokes properly, I still roll with the guys of the Nuzlocke.

 

[Alacion]

Pokemon battle anyone? I'm not good at competitive but I do enjoy it a lot

 

[Fluttershy]

I was doing so well against Super Singles until someone used Ice Punch against my Hippowdon, made a crit and then Frost my 'mon.
What are even the odds for that to happen?

Gah.
Then again, I haven't even started raising pokes properly, I still roll with the guys of the Nuzlocke.

About the same as quick claw activating at the right time to finish off your pokemon twice . Or one of your pokemon getting hit by two crits in the same turn after raising both def and sp def. Tbh it feels like the game favors them more than the human players..
@ Alacion I'm currently making a team for the June friendlies so maybe when it's finished..

 

[Alacion]

http://smashboards.com/threads/initial-super-smash-wii-u-tier-list-by-ct-zero.358376/

I know it's possible for there to be changes, but unless the fundamental concept of Zelda is changed, she's gonna be bottom tier again.

Sorry guys I may jump ship this time. I've "endured" Zelda for two games now.

 

[Fluttershy]

Btw Aleate were there any moves that you needed to customize before the battles? that seems to be one of the few potentials for Zelda in the competitive scene..

 

[Alacion]

There was no option to customize at the demo.

 

[Fluttershy]

ok wasn't sure if they implemented it into the demos or not.. hopefully they'll give her some more inspiring things for her specials.. maybe something like P:M's Din's..

 

[Alacion]

I doubt it. I can't see Nintendo do that because it kinda implies that it's okay to hack/mod the Wii.

 

[Rizen]

Lol, pre-game release tier list. There is still time for balancing characters so Zelda might get some buffs. Although probably not.

 

[Alacion]

Hype! Secret bases confirmed for Hoenn remake!

http://i.imgur.com/FW8eYD0.png

 

[#HBC | Scary]

Let's wait for final products first. It ain't looking pretty but game isn't done yet.

 

[Fluttershy]

That's what I'm waiting for. Though if she doesn't feel as good or one of my other characters I'm thinking of using feels better I'll be switching mains.. Also @ #HBC | Scary any plans on getting a 3ds for ssb4?

 

[#HBC | Scary]

Eventually i will have to pick up one of those won't I?

 

[ぱみゅ]

Honestly, I didn't see many people using the Phantom. Or Ftilt (I mean, her Utilt was made much, MUCH faster, so why not Ftilt?).
Maybe she got some major speed adjustments and nobody noticed.

 

[Rizen]

I'm surprised there isn't more phantom metagame speculation. I didn't get to play the demo and don't know how it works but if it lasts a long time combos and frame traps would be possible.
Phantom from the air down on the opponent>hits them up>Fair. Phantom>Din's camping. SH>phantom over the opponent>Dtilt lock>guaranteed smash. Phantom on a platform>Usmash the opponent underneath the platform and phantom pins them in from above.
(This is how Link players think)

 

[Kataefi]

I'm reading the zelda wii u forum and everything is so gloomy. Someone needs to bring out the violins.

(I will):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vodd6C5ryUU

A good thing that has happened to zelda though, at least in this demo, is how projectile camping has been considerably toned down.

A lot of characters have lost their autocancels from brawl & melee (Pika/Mario/Fox/Samus etc.), which forces them to full hop their projectiles to avoid lagging. And Olimar has had his projectile game halved and is looking free off-stage.

Marth can't even space with Fairs anymore...

If these changes stick, this is going to help her reach the opponent easier, which is like a thousand times better than brawl zelda already (who had the slowest ever dash and traded half her life just trying to get near her opponent).

 

[BJN39]

Here's a list of things I've compiled about Zelda, in case anyone is interested.

Take note; The workings of damage seem unusual and inconsistent between hits, (Example: a hit-box doing 11% fresh one time, but 12% fresh the next.) and I've recorded two different percents for just about every attack. (The variation is only a 1% difference.) With that in mind, if you see two percents > 11\12% < connected like this, it means the varying percents.

Note 2: Everything here is subject to being changed before the full release.


MOBILITIES:

* Her running appears to be a slight bit faster. Not a whole lot, though...

* Her second jump is now much larger! It used to only be about "one Zelda high" but now it's equal in height to her first jump. (which is around "one-and-1/2 Zeldas high")

* Many people have reported that she falls faster. IDK how I like this...


NORMALS:

Jab:
* The attack does 7% over 3 hits. (Note, ONE of the hits does 3%. One time it was the third hit, another time it was the 2nd hit. This may have to do with that percent varying mentioned above.)

66A - Dash Attack:
* Seems to do some combination of 12\13%, 9\10%, and 6%. (It's unknown if the damage differences happen with different timing or placement.)
* The 90 degree angle seems to be done away with, and now the WHOLE attack does a 45 degree angle.
* The knockback of the hit-boxes seems "evened out" In that the tip and center of the move knock away the same amount.
* It also KO's at a percent BETWEEN the replaced brawl style; at around mid to high 100%s.

Ftilt:
* The move ONLY hits forward now; at an angle of around 45 degrees.
* Does some range of 10\11\12\13% (All fresh percents.) It seems somewhat... Inconsistent, though...
* It still has pretty decent knockback, KO'ing around mid 100%s.

Dtilt:
* Now does 4%. (Unknown if it ONLY does 4%.)

Utilt:
* The move has been drasticly changed:
* It now does only 5\6%. (Incredibly low damage.)
* Its knockback has been HUGELY reduced. (Only half a screen of KB at 100%.)
* Its angle is WAY higher. (It ranges from 90 degrees in the front, to around 100 degrees when hitting behind.)
-- Overall, far more combo friendly. Use as so.

Fsmash:
* Occasionally, people "fall out" of the multi-hits, disappointingly...
* Now does 17\18%.
* Retains very similar knockback to Brawl.

Dsmash:
* Front hit does 12\13%.
* Back hit does 10\11%.
* Retains very similar to Brawl knockback.

Usmash:
* Occasionally, people "fall out" of the multi-hits, disappointingly...
* Does 16\17%. Is now only 7 hits. (2\3%, 2\3%, 2\3%, 2\3%, 1%, 1%, 5\6%. Note, it ONLY seems to do 15-17%, though.)
* It appears to have some sort of IASA (Not confirmed) that makes it faster than it was in Brawl.
* It appears to be slightly weaker; (Not confirmed.) not being able to "off the top" KO ZSS even at 115%.

NAir:
* Does around 12% at best.

FAir/BAir:
* The Sweetspot hit-lag is reduced from Brawl.
* Sweetspot does 21%, and hits at around 45 degrees. Still VERY powerful.
* Sourspot does 4\5%.
* The move has normal priority. (It could be seen cancelling a Samus homing missile.)

DAir:
* Sweetspot does 16\17% and still hits straight down.
* Lower Sourspot does 4\5%, and higher Sourspot does 6%.
* The sweetspot can connect with grounded opponents!

UAir:
* The hit-box appears to be larger and there appears to be two different ones: The main hit-box, and the edging.
* The main hit-box does 15\16% and hits upwards. (Note, it may not hit straight up anymore. It's unknown.) Also, it appears to be slightly weaker. (Not confirmed.)
* The edging is a weaker hit-box edging the main one. It does 10%.
* There have been reports of some part of UAir hitting downwards somewhere on the move. The true workings are unknown, but I believe this may have to do with the edging. (Theory>) Perhaps the edging hits in the direction of the side you hit with. (AKA, hit by the top = upwards. Hit with the side = sideways. Note this is only a THEORY.)

SPECIALS:

Neutral Special - "Nayru's Love":
* The move appears to connect better than in Brawl.
* The final hit has increased knockback. (It nearly KO'ed ZSS ataround 150%.)
* If you're behind Zelda, the final hit in the back now knocks the opposite way Zelda is facing, (Like Melee/P:M) instead of only forward her direction like in Brawl.

Side Special - "Din's Fire":
* The move now consists of two different hit-boxes.
The core, a VERY powerful, but tiny hit-box in the center, that does 7-15%, and the edging, the rest of the explosion; an incredibly weak, set knockback hit-box. It does 3-7%.
* The fireball travels slightly faster (Not confirmed, but reported to be so by multiple people.)
* The channel distance, fireball maneuverability, and explosion hit-box, have all been nerfed.
* If used in the air, it no longer slows your descent. (Not confirmed.)
* The fireball explosion still retains "normal" priority, and it still causes special fall if used in the air.
-- This is just terrible...

Up Special - "Farore's Wind":
* Farore's Wind now carries jump momentum during the startup animation. (Actually, It always did. It's just FAR more noticeable in SSB4 because her 2nd jump is so much bigger.)
* The vanishing animation, and the invisible travel time, are quicker. Apparently, though, the reappear animation length is the same.
* Reappearing while airborne still forces you to fall a great deal with no horizontal movement.
* The disappear hit-box does 7%. (Unknown if it does anything more.)
* The reappearing hit is now made up of two hit-boxes. The larger hit-box is larger than it was in Brawl, and does 7\8%. The second hit-box is smaller (Still large-ish.) and is centered on Zelda. This one does a whopping 12\13% and has very large knockback.
* The reappearing hit-box no longer has a flame effect, but instead, a slash effect. (FINALLY.)
* The disappearing animation can once again snap ledges! (Like in Melee. This feature was removed in Brawl.)
* It appears that Zelda will now auto-grab ledges at ANY TIME during her invisible travelling period if they're near enough to her.

Down Special - "Phantom Slash" AKA the NEW MOVE:
"Zelda creates a small-ish purple portal/vortex that once released, lets loose Phantom Armor (Like the one Zelda possesses in Spirit Tracks.) That lunges forward and swings its sword to attack opponents, and defend Zelda."
* The move can be charged, and doing so increases the range, power, and damage. (5-16%) More charge also changes the type of Slash it does.
* No charge and it does a small, horizontal slash. Mid charge and it does an overhead, downwards slash. Fully charge it and the Phantom lunges forward and then does a MASSIVE uppercut slash, doing two hits.
* The fully charged Phantom Slash does two hits, yes, but it can do up to 26%! The sliding lunging hit does 11%, and the uppercut slash does 16%.
* When fully charged the purple vortex quickly flashes pink. It takes around 1.5 seconds to fully charge.
* It can be used while airborne and causes NO special fall afterwards. (woot!)
* The Phantom has NO gravity properties, and will stay on a single Y-plane when used. (It looks sorta funny when released in mid-air.)
* The Phantom can take hits from projectiles and shield Zelda. It can be seen taking 25% at full charge. It can take multiple projectiles before being destroyed too! (As it took one of Samus's missiles, and didn't die.)
* The Phantom is considered a projectile, and can be reflected by projectile reflecting moves. (UGH!!!)
* There is a brief period of time after the Phantom slashes where it's still there, and Zelda can act.
* Trying to use Phantom Slash while the Phantom is still on-screen causes Zelda to do a "no bullet whiff" animation.
* The Phantom appears to have some sort of "wall-like" properties. (Not Confirmed.) (It could be seen pushing Mega Man back slightly.)
Grab/Pummel:
* Her standing grab appears to connect significantly faster. ("And that day there was a collective sigh of relief and happiness.")
* Pummel does 3\4%.

Fthrow:
* Does 12\13% and sends at around a 45 degree angle.
* It has 'normal' knockback t low percent, but gains near KO like knockback in the mid 100%s.

Bthrow:
* Does 11\12% and sends at around a 135 degree angle (45 degrees behind her.)
* Its low percent knockback seems to be drasticly increased. (If any of you saw Kirby's Uthrow's craziness during the smash 4 invitational, I hope Zelda's bthrow is like that now.)
* Its KO power has been drasticly increased. (It could be seen in one video causing a "red flash"--KO flash, on another Zelda at only around 60%.)

Dthrow:
* The damage it does has been reduced to 6% over 5 hits. (Like... Why...)
* It now knocks slightly farther at lower percents, and releases at a higher angle.

Final Smash is still The Light Arrow. It does 40%. It also seems to be slightly more powerful. Neat!

 

[Alacion]

http://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/288lxd/i_am_scar_ask_me_anything/ci8ir0v

So apparently 6 months isn't enough time to implement changes so does that mean a lot of the post above this one are set in stone?

The Smash 4 Zeldas would get a heart attack from that ^

 

[#HBC | Scary]

Good stuff gathering all the info BJN!

Interesting stuff about the phantom. Also, REALLY ABOUT THE THROWS? Heh. Yay Bthrow.

Also, that is really true Kata. Perhaps the mechanics will be drastically different and we won't have to waste our lives tracking down an opponent.

 

[Kataefi]

LOVELY stuff BJ! Interested to see how the phantom would be used in the air then... 25% health is very good for a decoy projectile. I'm hoping the hitbox can contend against SH aerials!

 

[Alacion]

Spoilers? What do you think?

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2974350/fullcredits?ref_=tt_cl_sm#cast

Don't think Dante would be in it. I don't watch anime but even I know Dio Brando and no way he'd be in the game.

 

[BJN39]

Well there you see it:

"Jigglypuff"

I wonder if this is real... Maybe she's a pokeball mon or an assist now, too. I mean, that list shows ele-man or whatever his name is, and he's an assist trophy.

 

[Rizen]

Jiggz will be back. She always is an expected hidden character.

 

[SBphiloz4]

*knock knock* Is this a good place to write my first post?

Well, hi! Just a rather casual Brawl player pleased to be of everyone's acquaintance here! I'm not the most competitive person out there, but at least I can beat most of my friends with our beloved princess, Zelda!! (which doesn't say much about the skills my friends have in Smash, but hey, I want some glory. XD)

I played the demo of Smash 4 a few days ago, and I can say that at least for 2 minutes of gameplay, Zelda felt relatively the same (unfortunately), but with some extra neat buffs that are better explained in the above post by BJN39. I still feel she'll be a rather lackluster character (RIP Din's Fire), but maybe, just maybe... this will be her best Smash variant (still doesn't say THAT much, but yeah).

So either way, no matter what happens to Zelda and regardless of how good (or awful) she is, I will still main her in Smash 4. Hopefully, some of you will too! c: