• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Zero Suit Samus guide 1.0

highandmightyjoe

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 2, 2005
Messages
822
Location
Alexandria, VA
Table of Contents
I. Introduction
II. Pros and Cons
III. Advanced Techniques
IV. Move Analysis
V. General Strategy
VI. Recovery
VII. Conclusion

I. Introduction
Welcome to my Zero Suit Samus guide. Brawl is still in its early stages and the metagame hasn't completely developed, but hopefully this guide will give a general outline of how to play Zamus, as well as an analysis of her strengths and weaknesses.


II. Pros and Cons

Pros
  1. Generally fast
  2. Long range
  3. Fairly combo heavy
  4. Good recovery
Cons
  1. High Short hop
  2. Lower than average weight


III. Advanced Techniques
A comprehensive list of all the advanced techniques can be found here. http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=142139
I will only be discussing the ones that directly apply to Zamus's game.

Jab Fakes
Discovered by Dmbrandon.
This involves doing the first one or two hits of your jab combo, then pressing shield during the last few frames of your last attack, which allows you to lead into another attack. This is not as useful to Zamus as it is to some other characters, but it does have uses.
First of all you can jab fake into your Downsmash which leads to all kinds of great possibilities. However, even with jab fakes this move is far from guaranteed to land, so don't depend on it.
You can also jab fake into her tilts, which are pretty nice for the most part. However, your probably just better off using the tilts to begin with, seeing as how 4 extra damage isn't really worth the hassle, and it doesn't have much use beyond that.

Hyphen Smashing
Discovered by Dmbrandon.
This technique involves pressing up on the c-stick while dashing in order to use your upSmash out of dash. Zamus is one of the best characters to do this with as her initial dashing animation is rather quick and her upSmash fairly good. This is best demonstrated by doing a down throw which will launch your opponent upward and in front of you. You can then dash to upSmash as a quick follow-up, allowing you to quickly get below them and add some quick damage onto that throw.
Note that if you are b-sticking you can actually "Hyphen upB" instead, though it is slightly more complicated. You cannot simply tap the dash button and then use the c-stick up, because this will cause you to jump. Instead you have to be holding the control stick to dash, and then use the c-stick. If you are not c-sticking then you can still dash to upB, but it will require a slight pause and is therefore slower. All together though, the up Smash is more reliable, and easier to land.

RAR (Reverse Aerial Rush)
Discovered by OoNoiroO
This involves dashing and then smashing the control stick in the opposite direction and jumping at the same time, which results in you jumping with your back turned while still maintaining your forward momentum. This is extemely useful for many characters as alot of them have far better Bairs than Faris. However, I don't see it as quite so useful with Zamus because her Fair and Bair are both quite good.
However, there are situations where this is very useful. For example, while Fair is better at racking up damage, Bair is faster and has better knockback, so RARing off stage to Bair a recovering opponent is a very useful edgeguarding technique.
Also, I haven't seen this mentioned anywhere, but you can actually do the RAR in reverse. What I mean is instead of running toward your opponent with a Bair, you can run away from them with a Fair. The procedure for doing this is identical to that of the RAR, just do it in reverse. Not quite as useful as the usual method, but just something to be aware of.

Gliding Toss
Discovered by I.T.P.
This is a very useful technique for Zamus. It allows you to throw an object while advancing on the opponent at the same time. Extremely useful with her armor parts.

B-sticking
A video guide on B-sticking can be found here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53Wix_KsK5g
A thread by k4polo about applications to Zamus can be found here http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=154740
This technique basically gives more versitility to your Specials. It is easier to land a ForwardB sweetspot while B-sticking which is nice because it is your main KO move. It also makes Hyphen-upB possible, which I will discuss later. However, it takes away your ability to smash with the c-stick, and use the c-stick for aerials. Please note that anything that can be done with one configuration can be done with the other, changing your setup just makes some things easier and some things harder. So it's really just a matter of personal preference.



IV. Move Analysis

Ground Attacks

In general Zamus's ground attacks are very good. They offer a strong balance of both speed, range, and power. They are also easily combo'ed into and out of.

Jab Combo
2%, 2%, 3%
This is your basic jab combo. It begins with two fast hits that do little damage, and ends in a third hit that knocks the opponent slightly away from you. Generally not very useful, except in a few situations which I will touch on later.

Dash Attack
7%
As dash attacks go this one is pretty good. It's quick, and leaves the opponent in a prime position for you to follow up on. This move can be followed up with any of her tilts. A very basic combo starter, but be careful because you can be shield grabbed out of this.

Up-tilt
5%, 6%
11 damage isn't bad for a tilt, especially one this good, and it knocks the opponent straight up above you leaving them open for a follow-up in the air. Not to mention that like all her tilts it's quite fast.

Down-tilt
6%
This is another great combo starter. Its knockback is up and forward as opposed to straight up on the up-tilt. Also it has much longer range than the up-tilt. Either dash->uptilt or dash->downtilt are pretty basic juggle starters. Just watch out for shieldgrabs.

Forward-tilt
6%, downward angle 9%
First of all most of the info on this move is taken from Tristan Win's thread on the tilt. This can be tilted either up or down. The upward and nuetral versions each deal 6 damage and have enough knockback to get an aggressive opponent off of you. However, the true usefulness of this move is found when tilting it downward. It deals 9 damage instead of 6, and the knockback is increased. It can also cause tripping at low damage. For most characters this works until the high twenties or low thirties. Tripping tends to occur off of this move about 50% of the time if not even more often. If it causes tripping you can follow it with a Downsmash for a stun to lead into an even stronger attack.

Specials
Zamus's specials are among her best moves. All but one of them is used in her recovery, two of them can spike, one is her main kill move, and another is one of the most unique "combo fillers" in the game.


Neutral B
4%, 6% fully charged.
For those who don't know this is the stun gun and it is Zamus's sole projectile. It is slow moving, doesn't travel very far, and doesn't deal much damage, but that doesn't mean it isn't useful. When this attack hits it stuns the opponent leaving them open to another attack. The stun is very short though so you have to take the opportunity while you can. Most people will either grab from stun, or use the down smash to get a longer stun, and follow up from there. Both are good options. This attack should not be spammed however, like you would with most projectiles. It requires some skill to hit with this. Mindgames are important. You'd be surprised the use you can get from an empty short hop to B.

Forward B
3%, sweetspotted 16%
This is your main KO tool. This attack is fast, has long range, deals good damage and has a strong knockback. It can also be used in recovery but I will talk about that later. The sweetspot for this attack is at the tip so you should try to land it there, however, hitting with the weaker attack near the hilt will often knock the opponent into the sweetspot, so you can often get good damage anyway, but just to be safe, always go for the sweetspot.

Up B
3%, 3%, 3%, 6%
This move can also be used in your recovery, but I will discuss that later. This move deals somewhat decent damage but it's main purpose is for grabbing opponents out of the air. If the opponent is hit with the whip as it is rising they will take a decent amount of damage, however, if they are hit with the tip of the attack as it begins to descend they will be pulled down and you can continue to combo them. If you pull them down while off the stage this move can spike. This move is generally used after comboing airbourne oppontents with u-airs and then using this to pull them down and continue the combo once they are out of reach. Also note that if you are B-sticking you can use this move as a sort of "Hyphen-upB", though the timing is differnt from traditional Hyphen-Smashing. Learn to use this move, it will be a great help.

Down B
12%
This is Zamus's flip special. In the air this basically serves as a second mid-air jump, with it's own walljump built in. Again this move is very useful for her recovery. It also has a built in sex kick, that you can use by pressing A at any point during the attack. This is a very strong attack, with a long duration. It can also spike opponents that are over the edge.


Smashes

Zamus's smashes aren't kill moves like most other characters, but they each serve a purpose. Knowing how to use each of them is crucial to playing her properly.

Forward Smash
11% in front, 6% behind
This is a fairly fast, long ranged attack. It can't kill until about 130 damage, and even then her forward B is better. These two moves can't help but be compared to one another. As far as speed goes they are roughly equal, though Forward B has this move beat on range. Forward B is also a much stronger and more reliable KO move than this. However, it does have two properties that someimes make it better than Forward B.
First, it is not dependant on being sweetspotted. So if your opponent is at high enough damage that you are ready to go for the kill, but they are not properly spaced to land the sweetspot of the Forward B, then this can take its place. They need to be at a little higher damage for this too kill them, but it still does the job just fine.
Secondly, this attack hits both in front and behind you. The back portion of the attack is significantly weaker though. This is important because Zamus's down Smash does not hit on both sides as most other characters do. Therefore if you think the opponent might roll, or are in any kind of position where you need both sides covered, then this move can come in handy.

Down Smash
11%
This is Zamus's other stun move. Its damage and the duration of the stun are both significantly better than that of the stun guns. However, this move is much closer ranged, and is harder to set up for. One thing you can do is use it as an edgeguarding tool, as the stunning explosion it causes can reach under the tip of the stage, leaving the opponent open for a Bair into the wall of the stage. You can also Jab Cancel into this. Also notice that once you pass about 30% damage on the opponent your jabs will no longer knock them out of the stun, so they can be used to get some extra damage in.

Up Smash
First attack 4%, last attack 3%, all others 1%
This move can kill over the top at around 160-170%, but its main purpose is building up damage. This is possibly one of the most useful moves in the game to Hyphen-Smash, especially out of a down throw. Basically, if an opponent is above you, either this or the upB are both really good options, choose which one depending on what you want to do.


Aerials
Zamus's aerials are generally very good, however, her biggest problem is that her short hop is so high that they are difficult to land on opponents on the ground. Therefore, her aerials can only be used effectively on airbourne opponents(imagine that). Luckily though, she has several methods to get her opponents into the air, such as u-tilt, d-tilt, and d-throw, so this is usually not much of a problem.

Neutral Air
10%
This move comes out rather fast and covers both in front of and behind Zamus. It also has a slightly underestimated range. However, the knockback of this move is not very strong, and it isn't particularly combo friendly, so it doesn't seem to work into her game very well. It is however, a reliable move if you are in the air and just need to get your opponent away from you, as it is fast, and easy to hit with.

Forward Air
6%, 11%
This attack deals a total of 17 damage if both kicks hit, which is pretty respectable damage for an aerial. Also the knockback of the second kick is quite strong, though not as good as her Bair. It's Zamus's most damaging aerial, and one of her most damaging moves overall. Her second best combo filler next to Uair.

Back Air
13%
This is probably your second most reliable KO move, and your best edgeguarding tool. Overall it is probably better than Fair, as it is has superior knockback, and doesn't require landing multiple hits to get its full damage. RARing these can be useful in edgeguarding. Overall a very useful move.

Up Air
10%
If you played Mario in Melee like me then you are no stranger to filling combo's with windmill kicks. This is a great aerial. It is fast, has long range, and knocks the enemy further above you, allowing you to continue the combo. This is your most spammable aerial. It can also land over the top kills, at higher percentages. Especially useful against lightweights.

Down Air
5%, 5%
This attack actually has two components. The kick itself deals 5 damage, while the shockwave it creates causes an additional 5 damage. This is probably your weakest aerial and should only be used in a handful of situations. One of these is after an aerial upB has pulled your opponent down so that they are just beneath you. Using this move in that situation is a fairly safe way to tack on some additional damage. Outside of that though it doesn't seem very useful.


Throws
Zamus has a fairly good grab game. She has a tether grab meaning that she can grab from a distance, however, missing leaves her wide open to attack. It should not be used too recklessly. Try to only use this move when you are almost certain it will land. Shield grabbing, and grabbing a stunnded opponent for example.

Up Throw
10%
This is Zamus's most damaging throw, however, it is very hard to follow-up on. May be useful in some situations, but generally down throw is better.

Forward Throw
9%
Again this throw does more damage than most but is hard to combo with. The knockback of this move also seems to be effected by damage only slightly, so even at very high percentages the knockback is not very far.

Back Throw
6%
A weak throw that like the others is hard to combo with. It's knockback is more than the forward throws, but still not enough to do much good with.

Down Throw
6%
So remember when I said her grab game was good, but then all the throws I mentioned so far weren't so great. You may have been thinking, "well then why is it so good?" Well here is why. Pretty much anytime you get a grab, this is the throw you will use. It's damage isn't so great but it's quick and it sends the opponent into the air in front of you ready to be followed-up on. As I mentioned earlier, Hyphen-Smashing after the downthrow is a fairly reliable tactic.


General Strategy
So now you know the moves but they are only the foundation. What's much more important is the application of those moves. How do you play Zamus?

In a word, spacing. It pretty much comes down to this, if you can space you can play Zamus, if you can't then hurry up and learn.

Many of Zamus's attacks have a fairly long range, and some of them require sweetspotting at the tip. For these reasons it is important to stay at a good distance from your opponent so that you are able to attack them without them reaching you. This is similar to the style of Marth in melee.

If they do get close to you though you have several options to get them off. All of her tilts are useful in a close range fight, and her forward tilt is a great tool for getting people off of you. Don't forget to go for the downward angle off it if you can. If you are playing defensively make good use of the stun gun as well. It isn't as spammable as other projectiles but it can be a big help if used properly.

So then that covers the defensive aspect, but what about attacking? Well due to Zamus's long range and fast attacks she can quicly switch from defense to offense, and back again. This is one of her greatest strengths. While keeping your distance from the opponent attempt to land one of her longer ranged moves, such as her ForwardB. If you get a chance go for a dash attack to tilt, and then pursue them in the air. Also if your opponent is being overly aggressive, go for the shieldgrab, and begin your offensive there. Learning to quickly transition from defense to offense is one of the most important skills in your arsenal.

Once you have manage to build up a respectable amount of damage it is time to go for the kill. As I have stated several times before her ForwardB is her best kill move, followed by Bair. If you are fighting a floaty character go for over the top kills with Uair or Usmash. Also remember that you have several useful edgeguarding tools, and a strong recovery to come back with, so don't be afraid to pursue them.


VI. Recovery
So finally we come to recovery. Zamus has a very good recovery with a good range that allows her to recover from a very respectable distance, and her recovery options are plentiful and can therefore be easily mixed up to ward off edgeguarding. However, there is one great flaw in her recovery. That is that her recovery involves a tether and tethers can be easily edgehogged.

So then lets get into the specifics. For starters Zamus's midair jump is above average in height and she can wall jump from it. Her downB is essentially a second midair jump with its own walljump, and a built in sex kick to ward off edgeguarders. Her upB and forwardB are both tethers that grab onto the lip of the stage. Each of these has a deceptively long range and can lock-on to the stage, meaning that you don't have to be perfectly lined up to land it. The forwardB can grab the lip from above it which is often unexpected, and therefore rarely prevented.

The important thing in her recovery is to always keep it mixed up. Sometimes jump before downB, sometimes do downB first then midair jump. If you are approaching the stage in a way that your forwardB could grab it, you may choose to instead continue to fall and then recover with upB instead. Just keep it unpredictable. Also note that if you can downB it is the prefered move to use last in your recovery. It can't be hogged as easily as the tethers, and its attack can come in handy.

Don't forget your wall jump either. On FD you can fall under the lip of the stage, and then downB so that you hit the underside of it, and use its wall jump to reach the lip. This is a good option against opponents who continue to hog against the tethers.

So then once you are on the ledge, what next? Zamus has just as many options from the ledge as she does in her recovery. First you have the basic roll or edge attack. You can also allow yourself to fall and then use both your midair jump and downB to get back on the stage while protecting yourself with the kick of the downB. You can also use downB directly from the lip, landing just near the ledge, or you can let go of the ledge first and then use downB which results in you getting a little further onto the stage than with the other method. It's these kind of slight differences that make her recovery so diverse. You can also try ledgehopped Fairs, though in my experience they aren't as useful.

One final note is that Samus is a lighter than average character. She is by no means a featherweight, but attacks that kill Mario over the top at 100% will kill her at about 85%-90%. It isn't a big difference but it does matter. The only thing you can do in these situations, is have good DI, and be knowledgable of your opponents attacks. For example, if you are playing against a King DeDeDe, be aware of his utilt.


[U]VII. Conclusion[/U]
Thank you for taking the time to read my guide and I hope you found it helpful. Feel free to post any comments or advice here. If there is anything you feel should be added or removed please feel free to PM me.
 

highandmightyjoe

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 2, 2005
Messages
822
Location
Alexandria, VA
This is the early version of the guide, I will update it over time. I plan to get some videos up before too long. Also I believe all the "discovered by" where correct but if I messed one up let me know. Also I forgot who found b-sticking and I couldn't find it, so if someone could just remind me I'll put the credit in there real quick.

Any input would be appreciated.
 

DeliciousCake

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 20, 2007
Messages
1,969
Location
Fairfax, VA
3DS FC
4313-1513-6404
Review

Ok, things I want to point out! (I'm commenting on it as I read through it, so I'll probably have a bit to say.)

1. Layout is very nice in general. However, I feel that the order of the sections should be as follows:

Introduction
Pro's and Con's
Move Analysis
Recovery
Advanced Techniques
General Strategy
Conclusion


Because we do have new people who may or may not be accustomed with advanced techs, it's in their best interest to not overload them with things that may turn them off of ZSS or Brawl in general. This way, you ease them into the basic layers of play and then work them towards the more advanced topics.

2. All of the advanced techs are covered very well, and I'm glad that you put in the links to the threads that cover them more in-depth. The one thing about the gliding toss, is there's no explanation of how to use it. It could be simply put as "During the initial frames of a roll, if you're holding an item, you can tap A to throw it and still maintain the momentum from the roll. This creates the effect of your character gliding across the ground after throwing an item."

3. Dash Attack - A personal bit of info that I have found out that you might want to add: At higher percentages, your opponents can literally be juggled off of the edge with repeated dash attacks.

4. Up-tilt - I've personally found it to be slightly SLOWER than most of her other tilts, mainly due to the fact that if you hit them within the first few frames, they're already flying away as ZSS finishes the rest of the move animation.

5. Just another personal opinion on the order at which you present the information, smashes should probably definitely go before specials, and either before or after tilts. Aerials should also probably go in before specials.

6. Down-B - Mention that you can choose which direction in which ZSS flips, and also the direction of the kick by tilting the control stick.

7. Forward-smash - There actually is a sweetspot on it. If you pause the game (or just pay close attention) you'll notice the curve of the whip farthest away from ZSS. The sweetspot is on the outer edge of it, and generally has the highest knockback of any other part of the move. The reason it isn't noticed is because spacing it is nearly impossible and you'll normally end up hitting your opponent with a more inner part of the whip. On heavier characters, the F-smash can't kill until upwards of 160% if you don't land the sweetspot.

8. Up-smash - Mention that because of the wide range on the outside of the whip, that even opponents that are standing next to you can get dragged into the last part of the move.

9. Neutral-air - Also mention that it does have a slight stun effect on it.

10. Throws - ZSS's grab can also pluck people out of the air, which is a plus.

11. General strategy - I'll probably just throw in a couple tactics that you may have missed.

Short-hop stun-gun - Probably ZSS's most reliable way to use the stun-gun, as you can approach your opponent with the added threat of hitting them with a combo-inducing move.
Pillaring - Yes, I know it's a pretty general statement, but with ZSS's combined Up-B and Up-Smash, as well as her amazing tilts, pillaring is definitely one of your best options for racking up damage.

12. Recovery - A few backup options: Use your Down-B to spike an edgehogging opponent as a last resort. Also, your Up-B can spike people who are edgehogging, but if it comes to that you're probably dead as well.

Another important point to bring up: When fighting on stages with multiple ledges (Delfino Plaza for example) performing a short-hop and doing a Forward-B will ALWAYS lock onto the nearest ledge in front of you. This SEVERELY cripples the use of this move, as you will have to stick to the ground to use it until the extra ledges disappears.

13. The rest of my qualms with the guide are mainly just grammar/wording problems, but I'm not going to nitpick and put those in here. I'd be glad to do some editing for you though if you wished.



All in all, a very well written guide that can be easily expanded on as more and more techniques and tactics appear in the future. Kudos.
 

Phyziks

Smash Rookie
Joined
Nov 22, 2006
Messages
2
Location
Toronto
Nice guide so far man, I look forward to updates and vids. I just started using Zamus as my secondary (I needed a break from Ike maining).
 

Kamano

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 14, 2007
Messages
384
Location
Sarasota, Florida
Couple things I'll point out/add:

Dash attack into jab combo works surprisingly often in my experience, as does glide tossed armor > jab > rethrow armor right off the bat in a match. Speaking of which, it might be worth noting the damages her armor parts do. If I'm not mistaken, the arm cannon is 10% by itself, and the other two are 8% (don't quote me on that).

Also on glide tossing; I may be wrong here, but I was under the impression this was discovered by Niko_K.

3 things about the upB that I feel are important and deserving of mention: First, it can hit enemies on the ground directly next to you, allowing you to semi pillar by using upB several times in a row until they DI out. Secondly, and this should apply to all tethers, if you're under a ledge, it will NOT aim backwards to grab the ledge. The ledge MUST still be directly above or in front and above you for it to grab properly. I've killed myself many times with this by falling slightly under FD's lip and trying to upB, which at that point acted as an attack rather than a tether. Third, the pulling down effect of the upB is (or sometimes is anyway) a spike. I've actually finished a match in which I was a stock ahead by upBing an opponent when we were both off the side of the stage to deny his recovery and take his last stock when I had one to spare.


DownB: You can change the jump's direction by tilting the control stick in the direction you want to jump, as well as change the direction of the kick. Also you can do a very unique footstool jump with the downB. Everything I could find relating to this special footstool is in here if you want to condense it: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=155243 . And yeah, someone else found it before me, ignore the name, that was just to make it apparent what I was talking about when describing its uses.



Aaaand, in your final note about her weight, you wrote Samus instead of Zamus. :)
 

k4polo

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 15, 2008
Messages
205
Location
Conyers, Georgia
don't forget the footstool jump for edgehoggers. It actually works sometimes. Good guide. This will help people beginners to play her more easily. Trying to find more stuff out as usual. I may a few post here and know some of ZSS but I still learn alot reading this. Good job.

I am still learning her myself though.
 

Irish Cream

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 19, 2002
Messages
121
Location
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Good ****, I liked the general strategy and recovery sections but the whole thing was helpful. I definitely need to practice better spacing with side B and try some SH charge shots or side B's. I gotta be more ballsy with edgeguarding too, but I'm still getting used to down B and I screw up a lot lol.
 

Visani

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jul 12, 2004
Messages
5
Location
Nampa, ID
Both the Forward and the back throws are around the same distance as the vB. This means you can toss your opponent off the edge and Immediately follow them off with the vB for an attempted spike.
 

Angewomon

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 20, 2008
Messages
119
Nice guide man. All this information will help players to improve their skills with Zamus.

Waiting for videos anyway.
 

HideousBeing

Smash Ace
Joined
Apr 21, 2007
Messages
733
Location
Escondido, CA
Add that ledgehopped uairs are great, that the tether recovery can snap right to the ledge if you hit A as soon as it grabs.

I'd also like to bring to attention a couple of recovery techniques that would help. You can use your neutral b or your side B to knock edgehoggers off the edge, because of course, the tether cannot grab the ledge when someone is hanging on it. What the tether does do though, when someone is hanging on the ledge, is behave normally as if you were using it in the air on top of the stage. Basically, you have a chance to line up the side B to knock off or force off an edgehogger, which should allow you to follow up with your upB to secure the recovery.

Edit: Oops, a couple more things. Add that Zamus's zamus upB and upsmash are extremely useful out of a shield. Her upB is very quick if there is someone right in front of you, but they have to be very close for it to connect.

Say something about how her dash grab makes her continue running before it comes out.

And also, Zamus's jab combo is about useless on any character with a quick grab, because the hits aren't closely spaced enough to prevent her being grabbed in between.
 

highandmightyjoe

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 2, 2005
Messages
822
Location
Alexandria, VA
Thanks for all the support, and for the advice. I don't have alot of time right now but probably later tonight I will be updating this. The main thing I want to do is get some more videos posted, then I will look into the individual things you have all pointed out.

Also I may make a character match-ups list later on, but I will probably need some help on that, since the people I play against only use certain characters. My experience with some of the other characters is somewhat limited.
 

waks

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 11, 2005
Messages
281
I did a quick browse on recovery, so Im not really sure if you mentioned this.

If you want to play it safe, if somebody's sweetspotting the ledge so that you cant use side-b / up-b to recover, you can do down-b to instantly go to the platform. You can also do the added kick for added protection.
 

Ørion

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 19, 2008
Messages
858
Location
Probably in front of his Wii
Really good guide, especially considering brawl just came out and many advanced strategies are still being discovered. If possible, it would be cool for this thread to do a poll on what kind of controller you use, so i can get an idea of what people think works best for zamus.
 

HideousBeing

Smash Ace
Joined
Apr 21, 2007
Messages
733
Location
Escondido, CA
I think there's no question that using your old gamecube controller is the best way to play. It simply offers the best options, because the C-stick is there.
 

PaulLuigi

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 21, 2008
Messages
9
Location
Tucson AZ, USA
Great guide bro! Zamus is my main character, and I've been working on my own guide. One suggestion: this may be obvious, but you can easily kill recovering characters with forward+B, forward aerial, or up+B used as a spike and still recover no problem even if you miss. forwardB in particular is good because its reach means that you'll be out of reach of their aerials.
---
http://www.rivermanmedia.com
 

HideousBeing

Smash Ace
Joined
Apr 21, 2007
Messages
733
Location
Escondido, CA
Just tinkering around I found something funny.

After dsmashing someone with Zamus, you have about two options, right? Go for the KO (side B) or combo (start with a tilt).

Well, I found that if you're going to combo, there's no reason why you shouldn't just downsmash again before you do. There's enough time from the initial stun to pull off another just for added damage. Then you can proceed to utilt (or w/e) and start comboing. It works for pretty much everything but zero percent. UNLESS (it just occurred to me), you can shake a stun quicker by mashing buttons and rotating the control sticks. I haven't explored that yet.
 

highandmightyjoe

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 2, 2005
Messages
822
Location
Alexandria, VA
Ok, things I want to point out! (I'm commenting on it as I read through it, so I'll probably have a bit to say.)

1. Layout is very nice in general. However, I feel that the order of the sections should be as follows:

Introduction
Pro's and Con's
Move Analysis
Recovery
Advanced Techniques
General Strategy
Conclusion
I was unsure about my arrangement from the beginning and was considering better options, so I will likely change it in the future. For now the reason it is like this is because in the move analysis section I talked a little about how certain moves can be used through certain advanced techniques, and that is why I wanted to discuss the techniques first. I could change this though if it seems too akward.
Some of the other things that you mentioned where ones that I was already planning on adding in later. The Fsmash's sweetspot however, I was not aware of, so I will be sure to include that when I update. How significant is the sweetspot though. As I mentioned it does seem to score kills without it at higher damages, so it must not be as neccessary to the move as it is on forwardB. How big is the difference.

Thanks for the tips, and I hope you enjoyed the read.
 

DeliciousCake

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 20, 2007
Messages
1,969
Location
Fairfax, VA
3DS FC
4313-1513-6404
The F-smash's sweetspot is amazing compared to the rest of the move, and can KO between 110-130%. You'll know you've hit it because your opponent will fly at about a 10 degree angle from the ground with a smoke trail behind them.
 

highandmightyjoe

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 2, 2005
Messages
822
Location
Alexandria, VA
That's good to know. I'll be sure to add it in. I'm out of town right now and don't have access to my Wii. But when I get home I plan to test out a few new things and update this as quickly as possible. Thanks again.
 

James Sparrow

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 26, 2005
Messages
3,162
Location
East Wisconsin
I'd mention that since the short hop is so high, it allows for multiple aerials. I.e. you can sh uair, and fit a bair in before you hit the groud, or uair uair, or uair first hit of fair etc. The high short hop isn't ALL bad.
 

~polygon

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 18, 2008
Messages
4
Location
Texas
Just tinkering around I found something funny.

After dsmashing someone with Zamus, you have about two options, right? Go for the KO (side B) or combo (start with a tilt).

Well, I found that if you're going to combo, there's no reason why you shouldn't just downsmash again before you do. There's enough time from the initial stun to pull off another just for added damage. Then you can proceed to utilt (or w/e) and start comboing. It works for pretty much everything but zero percent. UNLESS (it just occurred to me), you can shake a stun quicker by mashing buttons and rotating the control sticks. I haven't explored that yet.
I've found this to be true myself; I've never been able to do more than 3 in a row, but I've found it's possible to sometimes even pull of 3 before going into a combo. the down smash is incredibly useful.
 

Garde

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 5, 2003
Messages
619
Location
SLO, CA
I have to agree with HideousBeing and ~polygon. The d-smash can be used at least twice (more at higher %) before leading into a combo. If you try too many, though, there will be no stun effect after a certain point and they will be free to hit you (or they might hop away if they've been mashing directions and buttons). But yeah, definitely a great move to rack up damage, though it can be tricky landing the first one.

F-smash definitely has a sweet spot (it appears to be towards the middle of the attack, the tip seems the weakest aside from the part that hits behind Zamus) and has noticeably more knockback/flinching at lower %. For KO potential, it appears to KO about 20-35% lower than a non-sweet spot f-smash, though this is through my observation in matches I am actually playing to win, not a controlled study of the move.

EDIT: added a bit more info.
 

Eten

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 29, 2006
Messages
580
Yes I agree, the use of dsmash to dsmash (and at high %, a third may be possible) before you lead into a combo is an excellent way to rack up damage with fairly little work. The % damage done is very useful, and I think forward throw and backwards throw should be revised to explain that they set up very well for a fair or bair.
 

0RLY

A great conversation filler at bars and parties
Joined
Nov 18, 2007
Messages
2,681
Location
Temple University, Philadelphia
Lol. I like how nearly everyone is helping the TS add stuff to his guide. It's like the community knows more than the TS! I'd also like to compliment everyone on their maturity as well.

I would like to add that zamus has the second longest tether, second only to Samus :). You can use this to your advantage by edge hogging with added safety. I'm sure you are all aware of the drop in invincibility frames you get on the ledge by hogging on it. This prevents you from hogging recoveries that cause direct damage. You can bypass this by dropping from the ledge and using your tether to hog it indirectly. Foes that attempt to recover cannot grab the ledge. If your foe attempts to attack you while you're hanging. Simply reel yourself in. This is extremely useful on stages with lips, such as the dreaded Final Destination. Because if someone like Marth attempts to kill you with B up while recovering, they will get caught under the lip.
 

DeliciousCake

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 20, 2007
Messages
1,969
Location
Fairfax, VA
3DS FC
4313-1513-6404
There is no way Samus' tether grab is longer than ZSS's. That also brings up something else that should be mentioned about ZSS Up-B:

It's the only tether grab of the three (ZSS, Olimar, Ivysaur) that can be used more than once in the air. Oh that also reminds me of another thing.

The mechanics of ZSS's tether work as follows: You have three tethers onto the edge before you run out and will miss. This as in, you can tether the edge, fall or jump away, and tether again successfully. This works three times before the tether just starts failing to cling onto the edge. After you land on the ground, you renew all three tethers.
 

anoobis

Smash Cadet
Joined
Aug 27, 2007
Messages
39
Location
Orlando, Florida (UCF)
I didn't read every post in the thread so I don't know if it has been said.
(The save my *** remark from being flamed)

Zamus' Down B Sex Kick has pretty strange properties when it's NOT sweet spotted (ie it won't spike the person). However, if it's not sweet spotted and the other character is at 100% and above (Earliest KO I've had with it was vs. Metaknight at 83% on FD), it will send the person hit horizontally and pretty **** far. Also, if you can time it right: Down- B Sex Kick is an amazing way to gimp someone.

Edit: It should also be noted that the Sex Kick has an unusually large hitbox.

-anoobis
 

highandmightyjoe

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 2, 2005
Messages
822
Location
Alexandria, VA
I'd like to thank everyone for their help. This guide was just a quick first draft and I knew I had left some things out, so I appreciate all of your comments. Right now I am planning on doing an update on Monday, so look for it then. I will do my best to get everything in their this time.

Also I have been looking for good video examples of some of the moves or techniques. For example I planned on posting a video in the section about glide tossing that demonstrated it being used. So if you know of any videos where a particular techniuqe is used, please post it here, and I will consider putting them in.

Thanks for all your help so far.
 

Tristan_win

Not dead.
Joined
Aug 7, 2006
Messages
3,845
Location
Currently Japan
Hey highandmightyjoe thanks for the name drop

Anyways I think you should also bring up in the tilt section that Zamus neutral Ftilt can trip as well but not as often as the downward and that it can trip in the much higher percentages.

Edit: Also I think your section on the down B was lacking, have you taken a look at what fastest wrote about it in his thread 1337 Zamus TrickZ
 

highandmightyjoe

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 2, 2005
Messages
822
Location
Alexandria, VA
Yes I was aware that it was lacking some info. I made this in a bit of a hurry so some things where missing. I intended from the beginning to update it. It should be pretty much complete by Monday.
 

Garde

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 5, 2003
Messages
619
Location
SLO, CA
There is no way Samus' tether grab is longer than ZSS's. That also brings up something else that should be mentioned about ZSS Up-B:

It's the only tether grab of the three (ZSS, Olimar, Ivysaur) that can be used more than once in the air. Oh that also reminds me of another thing.

The mechanics of ZSS's tether work as follows: You have three tethers onto the edge before you run out and will miss. This as in, you can tether the edge, fall or jump away, and tether again successfully. This works three times before the tether just starts failing to cling onto the edge. After you land on the ground, you renew all three tethers.
Also note that unsuccessful tether attempts (that come out as attacks and don't latch onto the edge) do not take away from your 3 tether attempts before touching the ground. I played around with this a bit against some people last week and really pissed them off while staying off the edge and smacking them with side+B and up+B when they came off the edge to attack me.

If you go for a 4th tether attempt after your 3 successful attempts have been exhausted you will latch on for a frame or two and then detach and (probably) fall to your death. It doesn't become a normal attack when aiming near the ledge after the 3 attempts, for anyone that was curious.
 

k4polo

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 15, 2008
Messages
205
Location
Conyers, Georgia
i guess ill post it here as well. When you are above your opponent B stick side B seems to be very effective. (maybe you can switch direction of B stick Side B for confusion maybe ie jump right but b stick side b opposite side of opponent) Because you are so close and in the air, a normal side B does no good but b sticking it seems to be very good.It seems that it is B stick side B is effective for short hopping.

So short hopping B sticking side B should be a useful tool in the future. Since she can side B immediately after she jumps, this could be a quick short hop attack that can be quite effective when close to opponent .

B stick UP B or the Hyphen UP B can be used once you land as well. This may come of use. I can see some use of it myself. (For those that don't know, hyphen UP B gives UP B horizontal range)

The are many applicable uses of wavebounce/B sticking UP B and side B. B stick side B seems to alleviate that problem as it negates her high short jump a bit and allows for a short hop attack that can hit grounded opponents from a decent range.

B stick B being done when you land, does a retreating ground shot and on short hop does a retreating air shot. May come of use.

I am finding other stuff as well. I am fooling with b sticking recovery currently which is somewhat explained in my thread. It is somewhat working so far.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=154740
 

HideousBeing

Smash Ace
Joined
Apr 21, 2007
Messages
733
Location
Escondido, CA
The mechanics of ZSS's tether work as follows: You have three tethers onto the edge before you run out and will miss. This as in, you can tether the edge, fall or jump away, and tether again successfully. This works three times before the tether just starts failing to cling onto the edge. After you land on the ground, you renew all three tethers.
I noticed this, though I never knew under what circumstances it happened. Thanks for that. Definitely add this to the guide.
 

Tristan_win

Not dead.
Joined
Aug 7, 2006
Messages
3,845
Location
Currently Japan
Since odds are this will be one of the most visited thread, I'll post this here.

Today I found a good, and almost guaranteed way to spike with the dair without dieing!
I've haven't done much testing yet but I have already used it in combat twice on purpose so it does work.

What to do:
It's simple really what you are doing is using your dair as an edge guard. Basically all you have to do is to wait until your opponent is just about to use their ^B to recover, jump and hit them with your dair while they are in the middle of their ^B. What you want to happen is a trade of hits. They hit you back into the stage/ into the stage (which might kill you so be careful) and you giving them in return a nice painful spike to the face. By the time they even get the chance to try to recover you should be hanging on the ledge thus completely killing any odds of them recovering.

Simple? Yes.
Already know? Most likely
Worth bring up again? Hellz yes.

Note: This cannot be done to all characters recovers since one of you might out range the other, out prioritize or even if their ^B don’t have a hit box it will cause you fail.
 
Top Bottom