Data Zero Suit Samus Frame Data Compilation [MISC Page Update]

[Dr. Tuen]

INTRODUCTION​

Hello all. This thread serves as a compendium of frame data related to Zero Suit Samus. This was prompted by a Japanese frame data collection [REF 1 & 2] that added to the knowledge we have already collected here on smashboards [Mastercore, REF 3 & 4].
The data presented below is not complete, nor is it completely accurate. This introduction will update to reflect any changes that occur going forward.

NOTE - The Japanese data includes a file for Mewtwo, indicating that this data is post patch! All damage data, however, is derived from Mastercore, which is not yet up to date. ZSS didn't seem to see any damage/knockback changes, so this should be OK. I will correct for any Mastercore related changes if they are discovered upon update.

I have left off knockback values and hit angles for the time being in the interest of focusing on the newer data. Some of the interpretations I have made from the Japanese data may not be correct, and may warrant discussion. I will try to cover as many of these as I can in my notes.

THE DATA​

This is what we're all interested in, right? The data can be viewed in the link below. It is sorted into four tabs: Standard Moves (Jabs, Tilts, Smashes, etc), Grabs, Specials, and "etc." The data now has end frames for many moves. The data did not add to our knowledge of custom moves, so I have excluded those at this time. Data I was not sure of was marked with a "?."

All cells marked with "NA" have no data, but should have data. All cells marked black do not have applicable data. Example: flip kick does not have charge frames.

For "properties" in the first tab, there are three symbols. Moves which clank are marked with "◯." Moves which clank but continue anyways are marked with "●." Finally, moves which are transcendent are marked with "×."

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/14gYzCptAnxWbzlFFkPa69MemyzCED9wjkPTAV6GaIQI/edit?usp=sharing

When discussion about the interpretation of this data settles, I will create static images to speed up the referencing process for anyone who wants to check on this.

NOTES​

These notes are not in any particular order, but I will try to have interesting facts near the beginning and interpretive questions I'm asking everyone near the end.

• Dash Attack is Transcendent - I am unsure of the implications of that.
• I have yet to look at the general document for the Japanese Data [REF 5] to assess the quality of our end frames
• The Japanese note for up tilt just says "knee." I made the inference that it was referring to the invulnerability.
• Z air has two hitboxes? The active frames are listed as 9-18, and 19. There were no associated Mastercore damage values.
• Neutral Air has two separate hitboxes that hit at separate times. Mastercore lists the maximum damage as 20%, but I have doubts that you can hit with both.
  
• ZSS' grab is terrible in ways that are further backed with end transition values (78 frame whiffed pivot grab!?)
• Special moves still have many holes.
  
• Paralyzer "active frames" are referring to the projectile, I believe.
• I don't think I interpreted the damage hits on Boost Kick correctly. In particular, the number of middle hits and the damage they do.
• Again, I haven't made a comparison to the aggregate Japanese Data [REF 5], but there's dodge data now!
  
• There's also item data! Throws, drops, etc.
  
• ZSS' jump squat animation is 4 frames long. Yay for fairly difficult short hops?
  
• Neutral landing data is cool too. I didn't know landing "hard" (fast fall?) yielded more animation frames. Also, airdodging into the ground is very bad.
  
• ZSS' initial dash animation is 13 frames long.
• I have transposed the jab data as it looks like in the Japanese Data... I am not completely sure how to interpret it. It seems that repeated Jab 1 is 7 frames apart. Not sure how to interpret the "13" in the "2 -> 1" row though.

Please make your own interpretations and comment regarding any errors that may have been made. I will do my best to update this regularly.

REFERENCES​

1. @TheReflexWonder - Japanese Data Post - http://smashboards.com/threads/mechanics-techniques-discussion.368206/page-26#post-19110317
2. sixriver - Japanese ZSS Data - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Y26dmz91sSUVM76wD1-Mt8dqK12HU4gBEyHqONvEGH4/edit#gid=0
3. @Thinkaman - Mastercore Data Parsed - http://smashboards.com/threads/comp...-every-character-now-with-ko-percents.383550/
4. @Dantarion - Mastercore Data - http://opensa.dantarion.com/s4/mastercore2/
5. sixriver - Aggregate Japanese Data - http://sixriver.web.fc2.com/ssb4/Character_data.htm

 

[Dr. Tuen]

Current happenings will go here:

The file is shared appropriately! Have fun!
I am currently figuring out how to share this file properly!

 

[DeLux]

I love you. I want you to know this.

 

[Sean de Lure]

I interepreted the jump as airborne frame 4, but I'm probably wrong.
and what moves clank but continue? I don't understand how that would work within my current knowledge of priority

 

[Shadó Chimera / シャドーキメラ]

"Z air has two hitboxes? The active frames are listed as 9-18, and 19. There were no associated Mastercore damage values."

I'm assuming that the hit on frame 19 is the 6% hit when it's fully extended.

and what moves clank but continue? I don't understand how that would work within my current knowledge of priority

What this means is that when it clanks with something the animation completely plays out instead of being cancelled. However this also makes that hitbox harmless to who cancelled it (but not to later hitboxes in a multihit move). There is one more note for ● type priority in that it cancels hitlag/freeze frames if it clanks with another hitbox (but not if it connects).

 

[David Viran]

Oh god that pivot grab. One extra frame of start up and 10 frames extra endlag. I don't think it has extra range either. I hope zss's grab has IASA frames.

 

[DeLux]

LOL I only use pivot grab

 

[David Viran]

Well you should stop.

 

[DeLux]

WE need RCO lag stats pls

 

[David Viran]

Dash Attack is Transcendent - I am unsure of the implications of that.

Kill Luma with no mercy.

 

[Dr. Tuen]

WE need RCO lag stats pls

I wish. It looks like nobody has great end numbers for special moves.

 

[Octavium]

Thanks a ton for the data, this was really well formatted.

Also, could you please add her Sidestep/Airdodge/Roll data?
Can be found in here: http://smashboards.com/threads/roll-air-dodge-frame-data.401323/

 

[Jaxas]

• ZSS' grab is terrible in ways that are further backed with end transition values (78 frame whiffed pivot grab!?)

That's Falcon Punchable on reaction levels of bad.

****, lol.

Anyways, awesome! Thanks for gathering this all together in once place!

 

[Dr. Tuen]

Thanks a ton for the data, this was really well formatted.

Also, could you please add her Sidestep/Airdodge/Roll data?
Can be found in here: http://smashboards.com/threads/roll-air-dodge-frame-data.401323/

Her roll data is contained within the "misc" tab.

 

[ZeroSuit700]

What do you mean by

Dash Attack is Transcendent

?

 

[Lus146]

Kill Luma with no mercy.

I laughed out loud in the middle of class because of that. Thank you.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

So data between 100+ and normal getup options are identical? That's interesting.

Are we missing any data to calculate shield frame advantage?

 

[David Viran]

So data between 100+ and normal getup options are identical? That's interesting.

Are we missing any data to calculate shield frame advantage?

From testing I did in training mode Bair and Uair are even on sheild.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

I don't think you know what even means. Maybe after a dropped shield you can both act at the same time, you're still gonna get grabbed/upb/upsmashed out of shield. That'd be like -7 still.

 

[David Viran]

Well yeah your not safe from some natural oos options. I was talking about after sheild drop. Nothing in this game is really safe from a sheild grab if not spaced.

 

[Dr. Tuen]

Oh, some of the blank cells in the "misc" tab are simply missing. Get up options from prone and such. I'll touch that up with a series of "NA" cells.

 

[Dr. Tuen]

Update 5/22

The "misc" page has been updated. All values are filled in. Interesting notes: our getup attacks have differing frame data depending on how we got there. Of note - if we fall face down, we take longer to attack and are less invincible. Tech rolls take longer and are less invincible. Interesting stuff.

Enjoy!

 

[Shadó Chimera / シャドーキメラ]

The active frames section in the specials tab is weird. It doesn't seem to represent when the hitboxes are out and is just first active frame > last frame of endlag.

 

[Dr. Tuen]

The active frames section in the specials tab is weird. It doesn't seem to represent when the hitboxes are out and is just first active frame > last frame of endlag.

Yep. The active frames of special moves are not very well known right now. It's... a mess, unfortunately.

 

[Shaya]

Does anyone see a real reason why there's a noticeable contrast in usefulness between our bthrow and fthrow?

Fthrow is 17 frames end lag after throwing while bthrow is 16.

Fthrow:
Hitbox Damage=7.000000, Angle=0x2D, KBG=0x4B, 0x0, BKB=0x32
Hitbox_02B(ID=0x0, GID=0x0, Bone=0x17, Damage=2.000000, Angle=0x2D, KBG=0x82, WKB=0x0, BKB=0x1E, Size=4.000000, Z=3.000000, Y=0.000000, X=1.200000, 0x3, 0x0, 1.000000, 1.000000, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x1, 0x7, 0x3, 0x1, 0x19, 0x3F, 0x0, 0xF, 0x0, 0x1, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x3, 0x1, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, )


Bthrow:
Hitbox Damage=4.000000, Angle=0x2D, KBG=0x3C, 0x0, BKB=0x46
Hitbox_02B(ID=0x0, GID=0x0, Bone=0x0, Damage=2.000000, Angle=0x2D, KBG=0x82, WKB=0x0, BKB=0x1E, Size=4.000000, Z=0.000000, Y=12.000000, X=-12.000000, 0x0, 0x0, 1.000000, 1.000000, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x2, 0x3, 0x1, 0x6, 0x3F, 0x0, 0xF, 0x0, 0x1, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x3, 0x1, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, )

Underlining differences.
Unfortunately on things I'm not aware what those values correspond to offhand (could be move property which could alter it), but the rest are very similar. Angles are the same on both, and the second hit (which I would think would be the priority one, but going by what we see in game I'd guess not) has the same angles and knockback values.

Otherwise it's a 7.0 times 0x32 [350] vs 4.0 times 046 [280] for base and a noticeably higher growth on Fthrow.
In other words fthrow should be comboing into things in a similar way as bthrow does but a lot earlier and likely for a lot smaller amount of time.

At early percent I've sometimes opted for fthrow over dthrow because it tends to lead to dash attack, but there may be more merits to fthrow than we've given it time for considering what should be negligible differences given the right percent.

 

[Shadó Chimera / シャドーキメラ]

Fthrow launches from much farther away than Bthrow. Fthrow launches from about 2 ZSS widths away from her and Bthrow launches from on top of her. That along with the extra frame of endlag seem like a reasonable conclusion to me considering that Bthrow followups are tight windows.

 

[DeLux]

What's the landing lag on Zair done out of air dodge compared to just using the grab button in the air?

 

[Dr. Tuen]

What's the landing lag on Zair done out of air dodge compared to just using the grab button in the air?

Someone measured it in the thread regarding ZSS and Shields. @ Shadó Chimera / シャドーキメラ did it in the shield's thread and came up with 8 frames of landing lag. I don't know what the landing lag window on zair looks like, so I don't know if its initial animation frames have less lag then the air dodge lag.

 

[DeLux]

Someone measured it in the thread regarding ZSS and Shields. @ Shadó Chimera / シャドーキメラ did it in the shield's thread and came up with 8 frames of landing lag. I don't know what the landing lag window on zair looks like, so I don't know if its initial animation frames have less lag then the air dodge lag.

What's the frame advantage on shield for that then?

 

[Shadó Chimera / シャドーキメラ]

Cancelling air dodge with zair gives you airdodge landing lag (this includes IASA). As far as I can tell zair landing lag window starts on frame 1.

 

[DeLux]

Cancelling air dodge with zair gives you airdodge landing lag (this includes IASA). As far as I can tell zair landing lag window starts on frame 1.

Frame advantage pls

 

[David Viran]

Don't mind me. I can't think.

 

[Shadó Chimera / シャドーキメラ]

Sorry I was wrong it's 1 frame less than airdodge landing lag for w/e reason. airdodge cancelled zair is -19 on shield and -12 on shield drop.

 

[DeLux]

What is standard Zair on Shield? though

No air dodge cancel just the low lag one pls

 

[Shadó Chimera / シャドーキメラ]

-7 on shield +0 on shield drop

I just realized now you asked for a comparison in the first place. yay me

 

[DeLux]

-7 on shield +0 on shield drop

I just realized now you asked for a comparison in the first place. yay me

What is Nair and Bair on shield?

 

[DeLux]

Found the Tuen thread on Nair / Zair and shields. THINGS TO PONDER

 

[Dr. Tuen]

Found the Tuen thread on Nair / Zair and shields. THINGS TO PONDER

Yo! Watch out for Zair on shields, the images in the original post aren't corrected yet (4 frames landing lag should be 8 frames landing lag). I'll try to find the time to do that... soon. ish.

 

[David Viran]

I just noticed that the data says that flip jumps intangibility starts on frame 13. This is not true. I had zss use flip jump in training mode and a frame 3 nair input on the same frame in different positions around zss.The nair never hit one time no matter the position. Either it's intangibility or her hurt box is really really distorted. Like it couldn't be anywhere near her.

 

[Shaya]

I just looked at the data.

It's frame 3-13 actually apparently, while being frames 2-7 in other conditions (I'm not sure which, I'm thinking maybe aerial version)
And here I thought I was giving the wrong information out all this time by saying it was around frame 4 (I thought it just meant she was super distorted in the z-axis that made her evade tons of ****).

http://opensa.dantarion.com/s4/mastercore3/dump/144/szerosuit

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