Matchup...Zelda vs Roy.
I just want the options of other Zelda players from the topic of thread started in the Roy forum.
The discussion from the previous thread:
exarch
What do y'all think about Roy vs Zelda?
I used to think it was a hard counter--harder than Roy vs Sheik even. So did Mow (thought it was a hard counter).
Upon playing Mow at FC, he told me he thought it was an even matchup, because M2k beat his zelda with roy. One of the best Roys vs the best Zelda. Concerning Mow's skill, it should be noted from what I've heard Mow beats M2k in fox dittos all the time. This may be false information though.
Until recently one the best Zelda in Florida (who doesn't get ***** by fox like Mow's does) used to wreck my Roy. But the past few times I played him something fell into place and I was able to win... by more than one stock occassionally too.
I will go into what I changed in my style later... time for Starcraft now.
Post your opinions!!!! (unless you're Rok cause I don't want this to be a flame thread)
Sethlon
I honestly don't really know too much about this matchup, thanks to few people playing as her in Texas, but i'll toss in what i can.
Dtilt seems to combo her as well as anybody, but from what I saw it also puts you at a good space to get f/bair'd. I didn't have a problem finishing her off though...just get her off the edge, edgehog to force her upB, and then jump up an f/dsmash. Roy really has the speed advantage, but its dangerous to try to take advantage of, because weaving in and out tends to get you lightning kicked alot.
Can zelda edgeguard roy at all??
I'd say its somewhat in zelda's favor, because of that outrageous reach/knockback from her f/bairs, but its not impossible.
NJzFinest
About Mew2King vs Mow, I'm pretty sure Mew2King's Roy is more than good enough to be Mow's Fox, Zelda doesn't even have to be mentioned
exarch
So the change I made to my style in this match is I began to throw out a lot more attacks.
Zelda does not have a fast move, so you can really press your advantage once you get on top of her. Just make sure you're inside the kick range.
Roy can "Pillar" zelda's shield by doing a barrage of attacks to keep her inside it,
and once she's in the air at a certain hieght, she falls victim to the shuffle fair x20 combo.
So really the idea here is to be fast Roy. Whereas other matches it's not a good thing to do.
NJzFinest
Zelda doesn't not have a fast move? A good number of her moves start and end fairly quickly. Even if you don't think Zelda's, say, Lighting Kick is fast (which it is, especially for the fact you can do 2 in a short hop), it still has range, which is very important. Ex. Ganondorf outspacing characters with his Forward Air. As Mow says, Zelda is pretty much a lagless character (when it comes to the majority of her "A" moves). Btw, as a whole, Zelda has the quickest set of Smash Attacks in the game.
About Zelda's shield, Dtilt ***** it. Zelda's shield doesn't cover the bottom of her body, so Dtilting her and poking her through plaforms is 2 good. However, the fact that Zelda can space Bairs/Fairs out of shield and isn't necessarily the type of plaform camping character somewhat covers that problem.
exarch
i meant more along the lines of Zelda's moves have more frames of startup than most others.
ok some of her ground moves are quick (dtilt dsmash), but in the air she's got no fast combo breaker.
and she's got nothing fast out of shield too.
These are the areas roy needs to press his advantage in.
NJzFinest
Zelda is plenty fast out of shield. Upsmash out of shield is VERY quick believe it or not. Fair/Bair out of shield is fairly quick and can be spaced, maybe even neutral B out of shield. Hmm, as for a combo breaker, Fair/Bair actually isn't that bad, think of it as Marth's Fair cept disrupting an attempted combo, but not as godly. Nair isn't that bad as well since it comes out quicky and has decent priority. The main reason why Zelda is slow is because of her movement both in the air and on ground. But still, Roy's combo ability against Zelda isn't all that great anyways (*looks back at NEO's Roy vs KrazyJone's Peach*). If you try to be too offensive trying to combo, a good DIed hit from Zelda, a simple wiffed move, or a missed move can lead to a unfortunate Lighting Kick in the face.
I think where Roy shines is his dash dance camping, kinda like how CFalcon can do well against Marth by dash dance camping.
exarch
good point with upsmash out of shield, didn't think about that.
Bair takes 10 frames to hit out of shield, fair is slower than her shield grab. Nair is a little slower than bair.
Bair hits on frame 5, Peach's nair hits on frame 3. Those 2 frames actually make a good bit of difference.
Your thoughts?
I just want the options of other Zelda players from the topic of thread started in the Roy forum.
The discussion from the previous thread:
exarch
What do y'all think about Roy vs Zelda?
I used to think it was a hard counter--harder than Roy vs Sheik even. So did Mow (thought it was a hard counter).
Upon playing Mow at FC, he told me he thought it was an even matchup, because M2k beat his zelda with roy. One of the best Roys vs the best Zelda. Concerning Mow's skill, it should be noted from what I've heard Mow beats M2k in fox dittos all the time. This may be false information though.
Until recently one the best Zelda in Florida (who doesn't get ***** by fox like Mow's does) used to wreck my Roy. But the past few times I played him something fell into place and I was able to win... by more than one stock occassionally too.
I will go into what I changed in my style later... time for Starcraft now.
Post your opinions!!!! (unless you're Rok cause I don't want this to be a flame thread)
Sethlon
I honestly don't really know too much about this matchup, thanks to few people playing as her in Texas, but i'll toss in what i can.
Dtilt seems to combo her as well as anybody, but from what I saw it also puts you at a good space to get f/bair'd. I didn't have a problem finishing her off though...just get her off the edge, edgehog to force her upB, and then jump up an f/dsmash. Roy really has the speed advantage, but its dangerous to try to take advantage of, because weaving in and out tends to get you lightning kicked alot.
Can zelda edgeguard roy at all??
I'd say its somewhat in zelda's favor, because of that outrageous reach/knockback from her f/bairs, but its not impossible.
NJzFinest
About Mew2King vs Mow, I'm pretty sure Mew2King's Roy is more than good enough to be Mow's Fox, Zelda doesn't even have to be mentioned
exarch
So the change I made to my style in this match is I began to throw out a lot more attacks.
Zelda does not have a fast move, so you can really press your advantage once you get on top of her. Just make sure you're inside the kick range.
Roy can "Pillar" zelda's shield by doing a barrage of attacks to keep her inside it,
and once she's in the air at a certain hieght, she falls victim to the shuffle fair x20 combo.
So really the idea here is to be fast Roy. Whereas other matches it's not a good thing to do.
NJzFinest
Zelda doesn't not have a fast move? A good number of her moves start and end fairly quickly. Even if you don't think Zelda's, say, Lighting Kick is fast (which it is, especially for the fact you can do 2 in a short hop), it still has range, which is very important. Ex. Ganondorf outspacing characters with his Forward Air. As Mow says, Zelda is pretty much a lagless character (when it comes to the majority of her "A" moves). Btw, as a whole, Zelda has the quickest set of Smash Attacks in the game.
About Zelda's shield, Dtilt ***** it. Zelda's shield doesn't cover the bottom of her body, so Dtilting her and poking her through plaforms is 2 good. However, the fact that Zelda can space Bairs/Fairs out of shield and isn't necessarily the type of plaform camping character somewhat covers that problem.
exarch
i meant more along the lines of Zelda's moves have more frames of startup than most others.
ok some of her ground moves are quick (dtilt dsmash), but in the air she's got no fast combo breaker.
and she's got nothing fast out of shield too.
These are the areas roy needs to press his advantage in.
NJzFinest
Zelda is plenty fast out of shield. Upsmash out of shield is VERY quick believe it or not. Fair/Bair out of shield is fairly quick and can be spaced, maybe even neutral B out of shield. Hmm, as for a combo breaker, Fair/Bair actually isn't that bad, think of it as Marth's Fair cept disrupting an attempted combo, but not as godly. Nair isn't that bad as well since it comes out quicky and has decent priority. The main reason why Zelda is slow is because of her movement both in the air and on ground. But still, Roy's combo ability against Zelda isn't all that great anyways (*looks back at NEO's Roy vs KrazyJone's Peach*). If you try to be too offensive trying to combo, a good DIed hit from Zelda, a simple wiffed move, or a missed move can lead to a unfortunate Lighting Kick in the face.
I think where Roy shines is his dash dance camping, kinda like how CFalcon can do well against Marth by dash dance camping.
exarch
good point with upsmash out of shield, didn't think about that.
Bair takes 10 frames to hit out of shield, fair is slower than her shield grab. Nair is a little slower than bair.
Bair hits on frame 5, Peach's nair hits on frame 3. Those 2 frames actually make a good bit of difference.
Your thoughts?
