Zelda - Timeline, story, weird miscellany, etc. discussion. (USE SPOILER TAGS)

[Mic_128]

Um, in that interview Anouma says Four Swords is the oldest Zelda, then FSA.

That was before Minish cap was made

The whole problem is that there are things like the layout of Hyrule and why the Picori are not even a legend anymore that just don't add up.

Legends come and go, things get forgotten. Though one of them certainly isn't forgotten, Vaitti. TMC is his origin story.

What about the swords?

In TMC the sword you use allows you to split up into 4 people.

 

[Warrior of Zarona]

The most popular theory is the timesplit theory, or the double timeline. This theory was first presented when Wind Waker first started, and Miyamoto gave a hint that the story of OoT technically had "two endings," with Wind Waker being placed in the Adult Timeline. The Adult Timeline consists of Link defeating Ganon, effectively sealing him in the Sacred Realm with the help of the 7 sages, and is then sent back in time. He no longer exists in that timeline. The child timeline is the timeline Link is sent back to, back before he even draws the Master Sword, Ganondorf never entered the Sacred Realm, and Link goes on to the events in MM.

TP is definitely after OoT with so many references to it, but those who support the double timeline have often debated it's placement in either Adult or Child. I'm a child timeline supporter for TP's placement for many reasons, but we can go into that later on. Also, don't go into thinking TP's Link is the same as OoT's Link. They're two different people.

Of course, there are people, even TSA himself I believe, who compile a single Timeline theory. The problem with the single Timeline is that you'd have to ignore certain things the creator's have said about this game in order to make it work.

The main reason TMC lands before FS is because of the obvious case TMC makes to make it a prequel to FS - it explains the origins of Vaati, as I mentioned before. Like OoT being Ganondorf's first appearance into the timeline, so is TMC for Vaati.

If I had to make a brief timeline right now, it would look something like this:

TMC > FS > OoT > Timesplit:

Adult: WW > FSA > ALttP > LA > LoZ > AoL

Child: MM > TP > Oracles

I placed Oracles after TP for the sole reason that Ganondorf is dead at the end of TP, and with Oracles, he's dead at the beginning of the game and there are those who are attempting to resurrect him. Of course, that's still a little sketchy for me.

But anyhow, FSA and the Oracles are still the most difficult games to place in the timeline.

Notice that I placed TP after MM. I think this makes the most sense - Ganondorf wasn't sent to the Sacred Realm, and there was no mention of Ganondorf escaping there in the first place, so I'd like to assume that he's been alive all this time.

In other words, I had actually believed that the Ganondorf in TP is the same Ganondorf from Child OoT's timeline.

The sages are.. well.. different, yes. I can't explain this too well, but if it does indeed follow Child OoT's, then the sages haven't even been discovered yet - the sages of this timeline may very well be different from the sages of Adult OoT's timeline. It might even be that there were sages from the beginning of OoT's story in the first place, and they were killed off before Adult OoT's story started. A little sketchy, I know.

The following is pure conjecture, but this is what I want to believe:

During the events of the beginning of OoT, there have been already 7 sages. If we were to assume that the Imprisoning War IS OoT, then we know this to be true, since the sages have been looking for the chosen one to wield the blade of evil's bane, and the temples obviously have existed since back then. Following Adult OoT's timeline, I believe that the sages were killed off in those 7 years, which can help explain how the temples might have gotten cursed. This is why I believe Adult Link had to search for the new sages - it reminds me of how Wind Waker played it off that the sages were killed by Ganondorf, and new ones had to be found. It also leads me to believe that all the sages might be related by blood one way or another. They obviously aren't immortal since Ganondorf has the power to kill them.

Now, back to the topic at hand - if we go back to Child OoT's timeline, we can assume that the sages were never killed off - I believe the sages in TP were the same sages that were in OoT before being killed off by Ganondorf during those 7 dark years. This time, however, Ganondorf had finally been captured and punished for his crimes. 6 sages were part of Ganondorf's punishment in TP, one of them killed off.

With that in mind, and to support my theory, I have to assume that Child OoT's Ganondorf, before he became the King of Evil, is the same Ganondorf that was sent to the Twilight Realm. It also helps explain why no one in TP knows about the story of the Hero of Time, while it was known fairly well in WW - the events of OoT's Adult timeline never happened.

About the Triforce being in possession of the chosen ones... this is the chink in my theory. There's no good explanation that I can really come with, and it's the only part that makes this theory fairly invalid. I don't like the explanation I'm about to present, but here it is anyway.

Now, as for the Triforce of Power being given to Ganondorf, I also have to assume that Ganondorf didn't recieve the power of the gods until he was impaled by the sage's sword. It was, as mentioned, a divine prank, but nonetheless, Ganondorf is a chosen wielder for the ToP, opposed to stealer. Actually, I don't like this idea at all, but for the sake of tying my arguement together, I have to assume this. In any case, I refer back to the word chosen. Even if the Triforce is in the Sacred Realm, there are the chosen ones in the game that are meant to wield the power of the gods. Even if Link never received his in Child OoT's timeline, he definitely had the potential to do so, and so I believe that potential is passed down his bloodline. It's quite the same for Zelda, but it's harder to explain in Ganondorf's case. As far as I can explain it, Ganondorf had the largest desire for power to be able to conquer Hyrule - it was because of the nature of his heart that he was given just that part of the Triforce, according to OoT. Being now a chosen wielder of the Triforce, it might have been just as it was - a divine prank - that helped save Ganondorf from disaster by somehow being granted the power of the gods.

Eh. I didn't like that at all.

As for Ganondorf not recognizing Link, Zelda, and the Master Sword in the end:

Ganondorf in the Child OoT timeline never fought with Link, and so has never faced the Master Sword. That takes care of why Ganondorf doesn't even acknowledge who he is and what the Master Sword truly was. I'm quite surprised by this reaction if it is indeed following Adult OoT's timeline, where he swore to destroy their descendents. I doubt a maniacal and power hungry man like him could ever forget those who imprisoned him. As for Zelda, Ganondorf always seems interested in her, perhaps mainly because she is the princess of Hyrule, but also because he knows she's the wielder of the Triforce of Wisdom? That always seems to be the case - he kidnaps her and you end up needing to save her in the end in almost all the games.

About the Skeletal Knight - this is an important item I need to bring up.

Here's the big assumption we have to make in order to help support this theory:

The Golden Skeletal Knight is OoT Link.

Things that help support this is that the techniques can only be passed in the bloodline, and only a true hero can wield them. That means TP Link is related to this knight, and that the Golden Skeletal Knight must have been a hero in his day - he even says so himself.

How does this support my theory?

Keep in mind, at the end of Adult OoT's ending, Link is sent back in time. He's disappeared - he does not exist in that timeline anymore. Where does he exist? Back in the child OoT Timeline, the only timeline where he could grow up and have a family - in other words, off spring.

If we are to assume that this is true, then it must be that the events of Child Timeline must have occurred with TP following after MM 100 years later.

Lastly, just the mild analysis of the creator's statements. Miyamoto and Aonuma never actually state that TP is between OoT and WW - they were vague and simply said it was after OoT, and omitted any statements saying it was before WW. This actually helps support my theory in the case that WW didn't happen in child's OoT, or as far as we know anyway, and leaves open the possibility that TP could have happened in that timeline.

 

[linkw00t]

It's complicated, really. The games that have a tough placement right now are FSA and the Oracles. TP also puts a dent on things - I personally believe it follows the child timeline after MM.

Anyway, a lot of theorists like to say that FSA came out sometime before ALttP., because of certain events involving Ganondorf in FSA that seems to result into Ganon in ALttP, and beyond.

Ok, there IS no Ganondorf in LttP. In LttP it mentions that ganondorf was a thief who stole a piece of the triforce and became powerful. Was that not the events of OoT? Because I don't think your "on the box" evidence really amounts to much. It's official BACK THEN. Now with all the new games, especially OoT. It's likely that LttP is after OoT, MM, TP, and WW.

The following is pure conjecture, but this is what I want to believe:

During the events of the beginning of OoT, there have been already 7 sages. If we were to assume that the Imprisoning War IS OoT, then we know this to be true, since the sages have been looking for the chosen one to wield the blade of evil's bane, and the temples obviously have existed since back then. Following Adult OoT's timeline, I believe that the sages were killed off in those 7 years, which can help explain how the temples might have gotten cursed. This is why I believe Adult Link had to search for the new sages - it reminds me of how Wind Waker played it off that the sages were killed by Ganondorf, and new ones had to be found. It also leads me to believe that all the sages might be related by blood one way or another. They obviously aren't immortal since Ganondorf has the power to kill them.

Now, back to the topic at hand - if we go back to Child OoT's timeline, we can assume that the sages were never killed off - I believe the sages in TP were the same sages that were in OoT before being killed off by Ganondorf during those 7 dark years. This time, however, Ganondorf had finally been captured and punished for his crimes. 6 sages were part of Ganondorf's punishment in TP, one of them killed off.

With that in mind, and to support my theory, I have to assume that Child OoT's Ganondorf, before he became the King of Evil, is the same Ganondorf that was sent to the Twilight Realm. It also helps explain why no one in TP knows about the story of the Hero of Time, while it was known fairly well in WW - the events of OoT's Adult timeline never happened

I agree with you on that. I think that the Child Timeline makes the most sense to connect OoT with TP. The phrase Hero of Time is never mentioned in TP, it just says ancient hero, which can be any number of the previous games. That also explains the sages, and that Ganondorf was still meant to have a piece of the triforce. And instead of being banished to the sacred realm, he gets banished to the Twilight Realm. Returning through Zant.

I'm not sure I understand the Adult Timeline, Link goes back in time and ceases to exist, and the world is saved? And all the people know about is the hero, and that he existed? So The Adult Timeline is POST events of OoT, instead of saying they never existed?

Okay, that makes some sense. So WW follows in that timeline, as the phrase Hero of Time is mentioned, that does go well.

IDK, good stuff.

 

[Warrior of Zarona]

Ok, there IS no Ganondorf in LttP. In LttP it mentions that ganondorf was a thief who stole a piece of the triforce and became powerful. Was that not the events of OoT? Because I don't think your "on the box" evidence really amounts to much. It's official BACK THEN. Now with all the new games, especially OoT. It's likely that LttP is after OoT, MM, TP, and WW.

You've confused me. What were you trying to come across with this post? I dont see it conflicting with anything I said except for a few things.

Ganondorf is in ALttP. If you've ever played the game, you'll find out that Ganondorf had been in the Sacred Realm from the story of the Imprisoning War to then. With the trident in his hand, he becomes Ganon, which is explained in FSA. Link fights and defeats him, etc.

Also, the "on the box" evidence definitely amounts to it, especially when the Japanese version states it as well.

 

[Zink]

OK, few new thoughts.
In LttP, which I am playing through right now, it mentions the prophecy of a Great Cataclysm. This prophecy basically says that occasionally evil will rise (I assume Gdorf) and that a hero will rise to defeat him. This could open the door to multiple instances of Gannondorf being sealed, so OoT might well not be the Imprisoning War. I'm thinking now that the Imprisoning War was actually the events told as a prequel to TP. This makes a lot more sense, and fits a lot of the qualities of a war as well.
Next thought- I think it was at least hinted that

Spoiler

the Tiwilight Realm in TP and the alternate dimension of the triforce are linked.

Does this mean anything? It seems fairly significant.
Next thought- a question about the spilt timeline theory. So, in Child, Link is young, before the events of OoT, and he does the events of MM? But that leaves MM without a lead in, beacuse he is searching for Navi, who only leaves after OoT.
Next thought- the TP/WW relationship. I think TP is first, because WW was expressly stated to take place 100 years after OoT, and TP was stated by Anouma to take place "almost a hundred years after OoT".
Next thought- the sages/wise men. IIRC, at the end of OoT they were sealed into the Temple of Light. Saria chose to give up her life in the outside world to stay with the seal. I'm assuming Gdorf broke out, was sealed again before TP, took over Zant, was sent back to the Realm after dying (due to the seal never having been truly broken) and broke out in WW.
Next thought- a big one. About midway through TP, there's that odd cutscene where one of the light spirits explains to Link that in the past, evil magic users weilding the ancient power of the Fused Shadow were banished to the Twilight Realm and became the Twili. Who exactly were those people? This is essential. It determines the relationship between the two Realms, and leaves the evil magic question open. My guess is that the next 3D Zelda will involve fighting these people.

Overall, I think I see the timeline as single. However, I prefer to think of it as cyclic, instead of with exact lead ins from previous games. More like, "Okay, this ending leaves Dorf sealed, so he breaks out next". In addition, I regard the Great Catalysm prophecy and the Twilight/Sacred Realm relationship as the most important points. Each determines whether the legends can refer to a generic Link/Dorf cycle or if each legend refers to a specific event.
Also, I like the idea of the Gold Skeleton being OoT Link, but that Link never learned many of the moves GS teaches, and it doesn't explain why he is a wolf in the real world, or where he teaches you, or why he's a skeleton.
Finally, again, how to explain the sword problem and the problem of no Picori legends outside of TMC?

EDIT: WHOA WHOA WHOA
I'm thinking and thinking, and it occurs to me that there is no need for a split timeline theory. Here's the reasoning- after OoT, Link is sent back to the past, but with everything he's done there already done, so in essence it's after OoT. He seals the Master Sword, Navi leaves, and he goes to Termina. Seven years later, when Gdorf breaks out, Adult Link appears, because he was sealed in the Temple of Time when Young Link came back from the future. Then events proceed to TP and WW.

EDIT2: omigosh, I forgot about the Gannondorf theif problem. Well, if you consider OoT to be the first real appearance of Gdorf, which it is, then it works. In that game, Gdorf steals the power of the triforce of power. However, since nobody else has touched it yet, he becomes the destined user of it. Just as the royal princess becomes the user of triforce of wisdom and the chosen hero for each age becomes the user of the triforce of courage. I assume that if Gdorf ever irrevocably died, the power triforce would pass to the next male Gerudo.

 

[Warrior of Zarona]

OK, few new thoughts.
In LttP, which I am playing through right now, it mentions the prophecy of a Great Cataclysm. This prophecy basically says that occasionally evil will rise (I assume Gdorf) and that a hero will rise to defeat him. This could open the door to multiple instances of Gannondorf being sealed, so OoT might well not be the Imprisoning War. I'm thinking now that the Imprisoning War was actually the events told as a prequel to TP. This makes a lot more sense, and fits a lot of the qualities of a war as well.

TP is suppose to be another direct sequel to OoT, so I don't think this will work. OoT was intended to be the story of the Imprisoning/Seal War, but there are significant contradictions, two of which are that a hero never rose to send Ganondorf to seal him in the Sacred Realm, and that the Triforce never split up - it was whole when Ganondorf was sealed.

Next thought- I think it was at least hinted that

Spoiler

the Tiwilight Realm in TP and the alternate dimension of the triforce are linked.

Does this mean anything? It seems fairly significant.

They're two different worlds. The Twilight Realm is simply a place where criminals were sent from Hyrule by the sages. There aren't really any big hints that say that the Sacred Realm is the Twilight Realm, unless you want to somehow present some of that evidence to be discussed.

Next thought- a question about the spilt timeline theory. So, in Child, Link is young, before the events of OoT, and he does the events of MM? But that leaves MM without a lead in, beacuse he is searching for Navi, who only leaves after OoT.

No no, you're confused. The child timeline starts after Zelda sends Link back in time to reclaim his lost childhood. This is where the child timeline begins, and it is here that Navi leaves after their big adventure.

Next thought- the TP/WW relationship. I think TP is first, because WW was expressly stated to take place 100 years after OoT, and TP was stated by Anouma to take place "almost a hundred years after OoT".

TWW takes place hundreds of years after OoT, while TP takes place 100 years after OoT. The TWW interview was a mistranslation, but it's long since been corrected.

Next thought- the sages/wise men. IIRC, at the end of OoT they were sealed into the Temple of Light. Saria chose to give up her life in the outside world to stay with the seal. I'm assuming Gdorf broke out, was sealed again before TP, took over Zant, was sent back to the Realm after dying (due to the seal never having been truly broken) and broke out in WW.

You... confused me here with this post. I guess you're assuming TP and WW are in the same timeline?

Anyway, it's never mentioned in TP that Ganondorf was sealed in the first place. If you read through my theory, it's actually that Ganondorf was instead sent to the Gerudo Desert to be punished by the 6 sages - this cutscene is in TP itself. However, Ganondorf was granted the Triforce of Power, is revived, kills one of the sages, and before he does any more damage, the 5 remaining sages send Ganondorf to the Twilight Realm using the Mirror of Twilight. It is here that he manipulates Zant and the events of TP go on from there.

Next thought- a big one. About midway through TP, there's that odd cutscene where one of the light spirits explains to Link that in the past, evil magic users weilding the ancient power of the Fused Shadow were banished to the Twilight Realm and became the Twili. Who exactly were those people? This is essential. It determines the relationship between the two Realms, and leaves the evil magic question open. My guess is that the next 3D Zelda will involve fighting these people.

No one really knows the answer to this question. Some people think these are the same tribe who created Majora's Mask. Others think they're Gerudos. Everyone else thinks that they're simply magic wielding interlopers that were greedy and wanted the power of the Gods for themselves. There's no clear answer.

Overall, I think I see the timeline as single. However, I prefer to think of it as cyclic, instead of with exact lead ins from previous games. More like, "Okay, this ending leaves Dorf sealed, so he breaks out next". In addition, I regard the Great Catalysm prophecy and the Twilight/Sacred Realm relationship as the most important points. Each determines whether the legends can refer to a generic Link/Dorf cycle or if each legend refers to a specific event.
Also, I like the idea of the Gold Skeleton being OoT Link, but that Link never learned many of the moves GS teaches, and it doesn't explain why he is a wolf in the real world, or where he teaches you, or why he's a skeleton.
Finally, again, how to explain the sword problem and the problem of no Picori legends outside of TMC?

You'll just have to assume that Link always had these moves. Keep in mind, the battle system in OoT was quote simple, and they didn't improve upon it until TWW, where we discover that Link can use these moves. The wolf is used because it is symbolic of what is suppose to be the Sacred Beast, a form only the chosen hero can use. I don't know what the sword problem is that you're talking about, and Mic already explained the Picori legend. The Picori legend wasn't really huge to begin with, and Picori tend to hide from people to avoid being seen, so it's only natural that the story would eventually fade out of existence.

EDIT: WHOA WHOA WHOA
I'm thinking and thinking, and it occurs to me that there is no need for a split timeline theory. Here's the reasoning- after OoT, Link is sent back to the past, but with everything he's done there already done, so in essence it's after OoT. He seals the Master Sword, Navi leaves, and he goes to Termina. Seven years later, when Gdorf breaks out, Adult Link appears, because he was sealed in the Temple of Time when Young Link came back from the future. Then events proceed to TP and WW.

When Link is sent back in time, he is sent back to a time where the Master Sword hasn't been drawn yet. Because of this, Ganondorf never enters the Sacred Realm, so technically, the events of the Adult timeline will no longer happen in that Child timeline. However, Ganondorf still exists in the child timeline, and he hasn't been sealed. Instead, he's still wandering around, trying to create a false truce with the King of Hyrule. This is where I believe the events of TP will soon take place, as Ganondorf is soon caught, punished, receives the Triforce of Power, and is then sent to the Twilight Realm.

EDIT2: omigosh, I forgot about the Gannondorf theif problem. Well, if you consider OoT to be the first real appearance of Gdorf, which it is, then it works. In that game, Gdorf steals the power of the triforce of power. However, since nobody else has touched it yet, he becomes the destined user of it. Just as the royal princess becomes the user of triforce of wisdom and the chosen hero for each age becomes the user of the triforce of courage. I assume that if Gdorf ever irrevocably died, the power triforce would pass to the next male Gerudo.

It depends, really. It's hard to tell how someone is granted the powers of the Triforce. Having the crest on your hand indicates that you're a chosen wielder, but the power of the Gods themselves can exist and be held outside of those who can use their power, like how the Triforce of Courage was split into 8 shards and needed to be found somewhere in the world in TWW, and how that same piece of the Triforce was simply sealed in a tower in AoL. The Triforce of Wisdom was also split into shards in LoZ, and the Triforce of Power itself was stolen out of a castle by Ganon.

In TP, Link already has the Triforce of Courage - the glow on his crest indicates this. So does Zelda and so does Ganondorf. The big problem is how the Triforce was split in the first place, and how they received the power of the Gods in the first place.

 

[Mic_128]

In TP, Link already has the Triforce of Courage - the glow on his crest indicates this. So does Zelda and so does Ganondorf. The big problem is how the Triforce was split in the first place, and how they received the power of the Gods in the first place.

It was said in OoT, Gannon tried to sieze it when it was whole, it split and went to the 3 people who most fit the 3 pieces natures. Courage, Power and Wisdom.

 

[Warrior of Zarona]

No no, I understand that part.

But if Ganondorf never enters the Sacred Realm, and if you believe TP is in the Child Timeline, then it's difficult to explain how the Triforce pieces were given to them because it never split in the first place. Technically, the Triforce is still in the Sacred Realm, untouched and completely whole. That's the only real kink with TP being placed in the child timeline theory, but people have come up with some explanations, like I have. Otherwise, a lot of evidence can still point to TP being in the child timeline.

 

[Chill]

I'm not really sure about the split timeline theory. I think that the games use time travel in a "Sound of Thunder" way and that you can alter the past to change the future.

In the Wind Waker you have to dig up the triforce shards. You are told you have the to do this because when the Hero of Time left Hyrule the triforce split into shards. Link left Hyrule when he went to Termina. Which would put OoT, MM and WW in the same timeline.

 

[Warrior of Zarona]

Ahh, that's a misconception.

The Japanese and Hylian text in the background actually said that the Triforce piece left the Hero when he journeyed into the flow of time, and not when he traveled to Termina. I'm not sure why the English translation didn't simply say that.

 

[Zink]

I guess, thinking about it, that TWW should be 100s of years after OoT, like the correction said. Makes more sense. There are still a few problems though-

When Link is sent back in time, he is sent back to a time where the Master Sword hasn't been drawn yet. Because of this, Ganondorf never enters the Sacred Realm, so technically, the events of the Adult timeline will no longer happen in that Child timeline. However, Ganondorf still exists in the child timeline, and he hasn't been sealed. Instead, he's still wandering around, trying to create a false truce with the King of Hyrule. This is where I believe the events of TP will soon take place, as Ganondorf is soon caught, punished, receives the Triforce of Power, and is then sent to the Twilight Realm.

So Ganondorf is messing with the king for one hundred years? And it took the sages that long to notice?
Does everyone remember the end of OoT? It ends on that scene with young Link entering the garden where Zelda is, again. So if that's intended to be the final scene, it means that there is not a time split, but, instead, a loop. During each loop Link finds the sacred stones/gets the OoT/travels through time then defeats Gdorf, and is sent back to go to Termina.
As for the Cataclysm prophecy, hm. Link sort of helps the Sages seal Ganondorf, who still has the Triforce of Power that he stole. I think he actually winds up keeping it for the entire rest of the series.

The Twilight Realm is simply a place where criminals were sent from Hyrule by the sages. There aren't really any big hints that say that the Sacred Realm is the Twilight Realm, unless you want to somehow present some of that evidence to be discussed.

Why didn't the sages try to send him there originally? Why did they try to set him up in the desert near the Mirror? It seems very odd. Wouldn't the Desert be exactly where his followers, the Gerudo, be? I think the TP cutscene has a lot of odd things in it.
A question about the magic users with the fused shadow... does anyone remeber that cutscene where they're explained? It almost hints that one of the Links, presumably OoT Link, became one of them, by transposing his face onto theirs.

Anyway, it's never mentioned in TP that Ganondorf was sealed in the first place. If you read through my theory, it's actually that Ganondorf was instead sent to the Gerudo Desert to be punished by the 6 sages - this cutscene is in TP itself. However, Ganondorf was granted the Triforce of Power, is revived, kills one of the sages, and before he does any more damage, the 5 remaining sages send Ganondorf to the Twilight Realm using the Mirror of Twilight. It is here that he manipulates Zant and the events of TP go on from there.

Another problem. Near the beginning of OoT, when Zelda shows Link that Gdorf is talking with the king, she is obviously worried that he is close to succeeding at whatever it is he's doing. So why then would it take 100 years to fight him? I think these intervening years would make for a better candidate for an Imprisoning War than OoT. OoT really wasn't much of a war, it was one guy saving the country. In TP, people didn't even notice most of the time. So wouldn't it make sense that the I War comes in between?
I worry that there are a lot of holes in both our theories. I'm thinking that the next big Zelda game comes between TP and OoT. However, we can't forget Phantom Hourglass. We still don't know how it works. Is Gannondorf back? If not, who's the enemy? If yes, how is he back and how is he defeated? I think that this will have critical impact on the post TWW timeline.

I don't know what the sword problem is that you're talking about, and Mic already explained the Picori legend. The Picori legend wasn't really huge to begin with, and Picori tend to hide from people to avoid being seen, so it's only natural that the story would eventually fade out of existence.

Wasn't huge? An entire festival was based on it! I think it was quite significant in the lore of the day. As for swords, what I mean is this- the Links wield 3 swords- Picori Sword or the Four Sword, then the aster Sword, and then the White Sword or Magic Sword. Are they just the same weapon with different names? I don't think they are. Wouldn't people familiar with the legends realize that the Master Sword has never exhibited the properties of the Four Sword, and thus note a difference? Since they never have, the swords must be unconnectd. Therefore, where did the M Sword and White Sword come from?

In TP, Link already has the Triforce of Courage - the glow on his crest indicates this. So does Zelda and so does Ganondorf. The big problem is how the Triforce was split in the first place, and how they received the power of the Gods in the first place.

Hm. Well, I assume Gdorf had the Triforce of Power from OoT, and Link had the triforce (but it wasn't empowered), and it was "triggered" or "activated" when Link was blessed by the Light Spirit and got his traditional garb. As for Zelda... I suppose the leading representative of the royal family always has the working triforce of Wisdom, unless they have been nullified and the power scattered and broken.
It occurs to me- does this mean that for a period in TP, Midna had the Triforce of Wisdom?

 

[Warrior of Zarona]

I guess, thinking about it, that TWW should be 100s of years after OoT, like the correction said. Makes more sense. There are still a few problems though-

So Ganondorf is messing with the king for one hundred years? And it took the sages that long to notice?
Does everyone remember the end of OoT? It ends on that scene with young Link entering the garden where Zelda is, again. So if that's intended to be the final scene, it means that there is not a time split, but, instead, a loop. During each loop Link finds the sacred stones/gets the OoT/travels through time then defeats Gdorf, and is sent back to go to Termina.
As for the Cataclysm prophecy, hm. Link sort of helps the Sages seal Ganondorf, who still has the Triforce of Power that he stole. I think he actually winds up keeping it for the entire rest of the series.

No no. Assuming this is the same Ganondorf from OoT, and from the look of his physique, this is probably several years after the child ending of OoT. It might have even been a decade or so. Then he gets sealed into the Twilight Realm and stays in there until the events of TP. Link did nothing to bring Ganondorf to that desert.

Besides, we already know that after the final scene in OoT, Link goes to Termina. He doesn't go find the rest of the spiritual stones anymore because he knows that was a mistake that Zelda made as a child, and this was something she admitted as an adult - Link, as far as I know, remembers everything and simply leaves to follow the events in MM.

Why didn't the sages try to send him there originally? Why did they try to set him up in the desert near the Mirror? It seems very odd. Wouldn't the Desert be exactly where his followers, the Gerudo, be? I think the TP cutscene has a lot of odd things in it.

If you played the game, you would know that Arbiter's Grounds was a place where criminals were sent to be punished. Usually, they would get sealed into the Twilight Realm, but for all the crimes Ganondorf did, it was decided that he should be executed instead. The mirror was probably a back up just in case the execution was a failure, and they can send him to the Twilight Realm right away. The Gerudo's were probably executed/sent to the Twilight Realm as well.

A question about the magic users with the fused shadow... does anyone remeber that cutscene where they're explained? It almost hints that one of the Links, presumably OoT Link, became one of them, by transposing his face onto theirs.

No, that was just mere symbolism that anybody can become greedy enough to betray and kill their friends for this power, even a hero himself. Don't take it literally.

Another problem. Near the beginning of OoT, when Zelda shows Link that Gdorf is talking with the king, she is obviously worried that he is close to succeeding at whatever it is he's doing. So why then would it take 100 years to fight him? I think these intervening years would make for a better candidate for an Imprisoning War than OoT. OoT really wasn't much of a war, it was one guy saving the country. In TP, people didn't even notice most of the time. So wouldn't it make sense that the I War comes in between?
I worry that there are a lot of holes in both our theories. I'm thinking that the next big Zelda game comes between TP and OoT. However, we can't forget Phantom Hourglass. We still don't know how it works. Is Gannondorf back? If not, who's the enemy? If yes, how is he back and how is he defeated? I think that this will have critical impact on the post TWW timeline.

It can't have come in between, because at the end of the Imprisoning War, Ganondorf is sealed in the Sacred Realm. The Sacred Realm is not the Twlight Realm. Anyway, there was another war before OoT started with Ganondorf as the main opposer, but it was settled when Ganondorf came in for his false truce.

Wasn't huge? An entire festival was based on it! I think it was quite significant in the lore of the day.

Of the day, yes. Keep that in mind, because TMC's time =/= OoT's time and beyond. It might have even been several hundred years in between. Times change, and so do legends and festivals. For example, Santa Claus didn't even exist as part of the Christmas holiday until about 200 years ago.

As for swords, what I mean is this- the Links wield 3 swords- Picori Sword or the Four Sword, then the aster Sword, and then the White Sword or Magic Sword. Are they just the same weapon with different names? I don't think they are. Wouldn't people familiar with the legends realize that the Master Sword has never exhibited the properties of the Four Sword, and thus note a difference? Since they never have, the swords must be unconnectd. Therefore, where did the M Sword and White Sword come from?

I guess you haven't played any of the games?

The Picori Sword, White Sword, and the Four Sword are the same weapon. The Picori Sword is simply another name for the White Sword, while the Four Sword is an upgrade to the White Sword, imbued with the power of the four elements. No, it is not the same sword as the Master Sword, though both have some time traveling powers, but the Four Sword doesn't need the Temple of Time to send people back in time. Some people are led to believe that the Magic Sword and Master Sword are the same due to having the same entry together in Nintendo's official website.

Hm. Well, I assume Gdorf had the Triforce of Power from OoT, and Link had the triforce (but it wasn't empowered), and it was "triggered" or "activated" when Link was blessed by the Light Spirit and got his traditional garb. As for Zelda... I suppose the leading representative of the royal family always has the working triforce of Wisdom, unless they have been nullified and the power scattered and broken.
It occurs to me- does this mean that for a period in TP, Midna had the Triforce of Wisdom?

Actually, Ganondorf didn't get the Triforce of Power until he was impaled by the sage's sword. You can watch that scene again and see for yourself - he didn't have the Triforce piece, or even the crest itself, until after he "dies." And yes, Midna had the Triforce of Wisdom with her, granted to her by Zelda. As I may have mentioned, the Triforce pieces can be taken and used outside of the wielders themselves, and this is probably one of the better cases for it.

 

[Chill]

Ahh, that's a misconception.

The Japanese and Hylian text in the background actually said that the Triforce piece left the Hero when he journeyed into the flow of time, and not when he traveled to Termina. I'm not sure why the English translation didn't simply say that.

Do you have a link with this info so I could read it? Hopefully etih screenshots and junk. I don't recall any Japanese text in the intro and I don't see why the US and JPN versions would be different.

 

[Warrior of Zarona]

Assuming you know how to read Modern Hylian in Wind Waker, that right there should tell you the story. The Hylian in TWW is based off Japanese kana, and so if you know Japanese, it's a simple matter of knowing what each character in Hylian relates to which character in Japanese.

The TP, or Middle, Hylian is even easier to read because the Hylian here is based off the latin alphabet, or the english alphabet that we know. You can actually make out some of the words by yourself if you think you can make it out.

I can always give you the Hylian translation sites if you want to do it yourself. Once you do that, just watch the prologue and try to take screenshots and translate the text in the background. On-hand, I'll try to find a place where someone has already translated it.

Besides, you'd be surprised at how different the stories can be in Japanese and in English - ALttP and the NES games are a clear cut example of that.

 

[Zink]

No no. Assuming this is the same Ganondorf from OoT, and from the look of his physique, this is probably several years after the child ending of OoT. It might have even been a decade or so. Then he gets sealed into the Twilight Realm and stays in there until the events of TP. Link did nothing to bring Ganondorf to that desert.

Yes, that's what I'm saying. The sages would have had to do it all themselves. But, how long did it take them? The swing element here is how long you consider it took Ganondorf to fuse with Zant and for them both to take over Hyrule, twilight-izing it. I assumed this to be a relatively short time, less than a year. If this is true, there is way too much space between OoT and TP.

Besides, we already know that after the final scene in OoT, Link goes to Termina. He doesn't go find the rest of the spiritual stones anymore because he knows that was a mistake that Zelda made as a child, and this was something she admitted as an adult - Link, as far as I know, remembers everything and simply leaves to follow the events in MM.

See, the Link you are talking about is "sent back Adult Link". I'm referring to the original kid Link, who is seen approaching Zelda. Why and how would he if he will or has left for Termina? He can't. There must be a time loop.

If you played the game, you would know that Arbiter's Grounds was a place where criminals were sent to be punished. Usually, they would get sealed into the Twilight Realm, but for all the crimes Ganondorf did, it was decided that he should be executed instead. The mirror was probably a back up just in case the execution was a failure, and they can send him to the Twilight Realm right away. The Gerudo's were probably executed/sent to the Twilight Realm as well.

Judging from OoT, I don't have a whole lot of faith in the sages by themselves, or even with the help of the Hyrule guard, could subdue the whole Gerudo nation. Ganondorf? If he left the desert to try to take over Hyrule? Entirely possible.

No, that was just mere symbolism that anybody can become greedy enough to betray and kill their friends for this power, even a hero himself. Don't take it literally.

Hmm, I suppose that makes a lot of sense, although IMO the entire system of the hero and the triforce of courage is designed to be and is immune to that kind of thing, especially with the help of Zelda, who has Wisdom.

It can't have come in between, because at the end of the Imprisoning War, Ganondorf is sealed in the Sacred Realm. The Sacred Realm is not the Twlight Realm. Anyway, there was another war before OoT started with Ganondorf as the main opposer, but it was settled when Ganondorf came in for his false truce.

Would this be the FS games? I didn't play them all, so I can't be sure, but I was under the impression Vaati was the main enemy. However-

Of the day, yes. Keep that in mind, because TMC's time =/= OoT's time and beyond. It might have even been several hundred years in between. Times change, and so do legends and festivals. For example, Santa Claus didn't even exist as part of the Christmas holiday until about 200 years ago.

This fixes the legends problem, but leaves the question of what the pre OoT war was. It might even be an Imprisoning War candidate, because I can see Gdorf breaking out of the SR as much as he wants, with the Triforce of Power. Was it an as-yet unchronicled war?
In addition, if Gdorf lost that war, I can't see him being in a position to negotiate. I got the impression he was simply trying to win into the King's good graces and trying to become invaluble, until he was essentially the power behind the throne. It's possible he originally aarrived under a banner of some kind of peace between the Hylians and Gerudo and a cover.

I guess you haven't played any of the games?

cheap shot.

The Picori Sword, White Sword, and the Four Sword are the same weapon. The Picori Sword is simply another name for the White Sword, while the Four Sword is an upgrade to the White Sword, imbued with the power of the four elements. No, it is not the same sword as the Master Sword, though both have some time traveling powers, but the Four Sword doesn't need the Temple of Time to send people back in time. Some people are led to believe that the Magic Sword and Master Sword are the same due to having the same entry together in Nintendo's official website.

So that narrows it down to 2 separate swords, but still leaves us without 2 things- an explantion for why the Picori Sword is not used by Links after FS, and why the Master Sword is. If the MS replaced the PS, it had to come later, and it had to be thought superior to the PS. However, we have no explanation for any origin of the MS or as I can remember a final destiny for the PS. IIRC in OoT the original purpose for the MS was to seal off the Sacred Realm- where did that idea come from?

Actually, Ganondorf didn't get the Triforce of Power until he was impaled by the sage's sword. You can watch that scene again and see for yourself - he didn't have the Triforce piece, or even the crest itself, until after he "dies." And yes, Midna had the Triforce of Wisdom with her, granted to her by Zelda. As I may have mentioned, the Triforce pieces can be taken and used outside of the wielders themselves, and this is probably one of the better cases for it.

I find it unlikely that he somehow obtained the ToP by being impaled. I always thought he wanted the whole thing, but he wasn't cool enough and only got the ToP, which was the very first split, and that he had it ever after. As for the crest, I think it's possible that the crest is not always visible and can be hidden, especially if it is used by someone so well aquainted with it as Ganondorf. on the other hand, it could be that the ToP was "dormant" and only became active when Gdorf most needed it, although the criteria for that look to be problematic.

 

[Mic_128]

Or it could have the symbol on Gannondorf's hand, like it is on links, just that Gdorf always wears those black leather gloves.

And assuming the ending of FSA is the same as FS, the Four Sword seals away Vatii and is a part of the seal.

 

[saberhof]

does anyone know the order of all the games??...>.>...i dont think the story is really in order...

 

[Warrior of Zarona]

The release order is the following:

1.LoZ and AoL

2.ALttP and LA

3.OoT and MM

4.OoA and OoS

5.FS

6.TWW

7.FSA

8.TMC

9.TP

The timeline order is what we're currently discussing.

I'll look into your arguements later on. Too tired tonight.

 

[saberhof]

no not really the the order of game release, the story between were all the years pass, i dont think the flood of hyrule was first then came twilight princess. >.>.

 

[Osco316]

This entire topic is devoted to discussing when each game falls on the timeline...

 

[saberhof]

do i have to read it all? >.>


wel nevermind, i did...so im good.

 

[Chill]

Where's the link?

Get it "link"? lololololol

Anyways, Zink also pointed out a problem with the dual line theory but I'll read the links first and see what I think.

 

[Warrior of Zarona]

Yes, that's what I'm saying. The sages would have had to do it all themselves. But, how long did it take them? The swing element here is how long you consider it took Ganondorf to fuse with Zant and for them both to take over Hyrule, twilight-izing it. I assumed this to be a relatively short time, less than a year. If this is true, there is way too much space between OoT and TP.

It might have been a course of a few decades, mainly because Zant would have to have found a way to escape the Twilight Realm in the first place, and I don't think the land of Hyrule being shrouded in Twilight is something that happens instantaneously, but a slow spread that continues to expand. In truth, no one knows a clear cut answer to this, so unless you suddenly want to start assuming without some things to back it up, we should leave this part alone for now.

See, the Link you are talking about is "sent back Adult Link". I'm referring to the original kid Link, who is seen approaching Zelda. Why and how would he if he will or has left for Termina? He can't. There must be a time loop.

What? How exactly do you perceive this ending? And you'll need to explain your time loop better because I'm still not understanding where you're going with it. You're the only one, out of anyone I've ever spoken to, that even brings up such an idea, and it's not really getting to me what you're getting it.

Judging from OoT, I don't have a whole lot of faith in the sages by themselves, or even with the help of the Hyrule guard, could subdue the whole Gerudo nation. Ganondorf? If he left the desert to try to take over Hyrule? Entirely possible.

The sages themselves are powerful beings, and you underestimate the Royal Knights of Hyrule. No, I don't mean the lower ranked cowards that were portrayed in the game. Keep in mind, however, that the Link in ALttP is a descendant of the Knights of Hyrule that protected the land, and it was also said in the Imprisoning War that it was indeed those same Knights that helped fight against Ganon and his evil army.

Hmm, I suppose that makes a lot of sense, although IMO the entire system of the hero and the triforce of courage is designed to be and is immune to that kind of thing, especially with the help of Zelda, who has Wisdom.

Perhaps, but anyhow, this isn't really crucial to the debate.

Would this be the FS games? I didn't play them all, so I can't be sure, but I was under the impression Vaati was the main enemy. However-

It probably isn't, since Vaati and Ganondorf didn't exist together until FSA, and Vaati was never mentioned for the previous war.

This fixes the legends problem, but leaves the question of what the pre OoT war was. It might even be an Imprisoning War candidate, because I can see Gdorf breaking out of the SR as much as he wants, with the Triforce of Power. Was it an as-yet unchronicled war?
In addition, if Gdorf lost that war, I can't see him being in a position to negotiate. I got the impression he was simply trying to win into the King's good graces and trying to become invaluble, until he was essentially the power behind the throne. It's possible he originally aarrived under a banner of some kind of peace between the Hylians and Gerudo and a cover.

The war itself right now probably isn't relevant - it was more of less a way to explain how Link was able to come to the Kokiri Forest. Yes, from my point of view, I was seeing the war as a stalemate, and Ganondorf decides to come peaceably to offer a truce.

cheap shot.

Sorry, I realized when I posted it that it was pretty rude of me, and I thought I had edited it out. Guess not.
[quote[
So that narrows it down to 2 separate swords, but still leaves us without 2 things- an explantion for why the Picori Sword is not used by Links after FS, and why the Master Sword is. If the MS replaced the PS, it had to come later, and it had to be thought superior to the PS. However, we have no explanation for any origin of the MS or as I can remember a final destiny for the PS. IIRC in OoT the original purpose for the MS was to seal off the Sacred Realm- where did that idea come from?[/quote]

I really don't think this is relevant to the timeline theories. Anyhow, in the english translation of the Imprisoning War, the men of Hyrule supposedly crafted the Master Sword under the guidance of the Gods. However, in the Japanese translation, it actually suggests that the Master Sword had always existed, long before the Seal Wars even began. The idea that MS is a seal to the Sacred Realm comes from OoT itself.

I find it unlikely that he somehow obtained the ToP by being impaled. I always thought he wanted the whole thing, but he wasn't cool enough and only got the ToP, which was the very first split, and that he had it ever after. As for the crest, I think it's possible that the crest is not always visible and can be hidden, especially if it is used by someone so well aquainted with it as Ganondorf. on the other hand, it could be that the ToP was "dormant" and only became active when Gdorf most needed it, although the criteria for that look to be problematic.

If you have the crest of the Triforce, it's always visible. This means you are chosen by the Gods. Anyway, this scene is up to hot to debate at the moment, though I've taken my stance on it.

Chill, I haven't found any Links that actually translates the Hylian text, which is too bad. Maybe I'll do so myself.

Anyway, here is the Modern Hylian Text you can use if you want to translate it yourself. Again, you'll need to know Japanese since you'll be translating it from Hylian to Japanese to English. It's a bit of a tough process, but if your Japanese is any good, only the first part should be somewhat difficult.

 

[Zink]

Ugh, I've had the flu and let this thread drop...
First of all, let me try to explain the time loop...
Imagine there is one person, Bob, who is our time traveler. Bob uses his time machine to go to the future and do an action. As a result, he is sent back to the time from which he originated. We will now call him Bob 1. Now, in the original timeline, there is Bob A, and Bob 2, who is Bob before he used his time machine to send himself forward. Bob 1 leaves the country. Bob 2 goes to the future, does his thing, and gets sent back. Now there are 2 Bobs- 2, and 3 who hasn't gone to the future yet. Bob 2 leaves. It goes on like that in an infinite loop. The key element is that the action of Bob being sent back from the future means that there are duplicate Bobs. What keeps it going is that the existence of each odd-numbered Bob relies on the fact that the next even numbered Bob goes into the future.

It might have been a course of a few decades, mainly because Zant would have to have found a way to escape the Twilight Realm in the first place, and I don't think the land of Hyrule being shrouded in Twilight is something that happens instantaneously, but a slow spread that continues to expand. In truth, no one knows a clear cut answer to this, so unless you suddenly want to start assuming without some things to back it up, we should leave this part alone for now.

Agreed, we need something definitive. I point out how quickly the area outside Ordon Village became Twilight- the process itself did not seem to be all that difficult. I think here the thing that takes up the main amount of time is getting Zant out of the Twilight Realm. I just think that with the power of both Ganondorf and Zant, it couldn't have taken that long. Anyway, we'll just leave this one alone.

The sages themselves are powerful beings, and you underestimate the Royal Knights of Hyrule. No, I don't mean the lower ranked cowards that were portrayed in the game. Keep in mind, however, that the Link in ALttP is a descendant of the Knights of Hyrule that protected the land, and it was also said in the Imprisoning War that it was indeed those same Knights that helped fight against Ganon and his evil army.

I always got the impression that the "descended from kinghts" idea meant he was in the line of other Links. I dunno, what does the Japanese translation imply?

I really don't think this is relevant to the timeline theories. Anyhow, in the english translation of the Imprisoning War, the men of Hyrule supposedly crafted the Master Sword under the guidance of the Gods. However, in the Japanese translation, it actually suggests that the Master Sword had always existed, long before the Seal Wars even began. The idea that MS is a seal to the Sacred Realm comes from OoT itself.

Eh, this isn't really timeline, just odd stuff. I'm just uncomfortable with how the swords work. So if we assume that the Picori Sword is sealing Vaati somewhere, and the Master Sword was sealing the Sacred Realm at the beginning of OoT, it was probably adapted as a measure to protect the Triforce and the Sacred Realm based on the idea of sealing Vaati. In fact, now I have a sword timeline lol-
1. Picori Sword given to humans, all Four Swords games happen, PS seals Vaati
2. People start to worry about Sacred Realm, so they remove the PS, reforge it to the MS and give it evil-beating power. The new power is tested by killing Vaati, who escaped when the P Sword was removed. Then the MS is used to seal the Sacred Realm.
Or, another theory- instead of killing Vaati, they seal him inside the actual Master Sword, so that whoever weilds it will have his sword ability. Remember how he won the sword tournament at the beginning of MC?

 

[linkw00t]

Ok I'm tired of this debate. I am Link, the Hero of time.

 

[Zink]

Then explain the timeline!

 

[pokemega32]

Well, Mic 128 told me to post this here instead of making a new topic, even though it hasn't been posted in since February...

And I don't see any rules against bumping, so...

My timeline...

The Minish Cap
Vaati unleashes evil into Hyrule.
The first Link seals him away with the Four Sword.
The Zelda in this game is eventually cursed by a wizard into a deep sleep.

Ocarina of Time
Ganondorf takes the Triforce of Power and takes over Hyrule.
The second Link and Zelda are given the Triforces of Courage and Wisdom.

Now this is where it splits:

Oot: Adult Ending
Ganon is sealed away in the Sacred Realm.
Link is sent back to the past.

Wind Waker
Ganondorf escapes from the sacred Realm and attacks Hyrule.
The goddesses flood Hyrule turning it into the Great Sea.
Ganondorf sends the Helmaroc King to find the next Zelda
Years later, the third Link's sister is kidnapped by the Helmaroc King.
He finds the Master Sword, restores its power, and kills Ganondorf, sealing Hyrule under the sea again.

Phantom Hourglass
Not sure of the story in this one.

Now, the Child Ending

OoT: Child Ending
The second Link sets out to find Navi with Epona.
Ganondorf is sent to the Twilight Realm by the Sages

Majora's Mask
The second Link chases the Skull Kid to Termina.
He saves Termina from Majora's Mask.
He returns to Hyrule.

Oracle of Ages/Seasons
The second Link is transported by the Triforce to Labrynna/Holodrum.
He saves Nayru/Din from Veran/Onox.
Twinrova tries to bring back Ganon, but only creates a mindless imitation.
Link defeats it and leaves Hyrule for parts unknown.

Twilight Princess
Ganondorf contacts Zant and gives him the power to take over the Twilight Realm as king.
The third Link is sucked into the Twilight Realm and meets Midna.
Together they defeat Zant and Ganondorf.

Four Swords
Vaati is released from the Four Sword and kidnaps the fourth Zelda.
The fourth Link uses the Four Sword to seal him away again.

Four Swords Adventures
Ganondorf releases Vaati from the Four Sword to create a diversion, while he steals the Trident of Power and becomes Ganon.
The fourth Link defeats both Vaati and Ganon, sealing him in the Sacred Realm.

A Link to the Past
Ganon transforms the Sacred Realm into the Dark World.
The fifth Link defeats Agahnim at Hyrule Castle and saves the fifth Zelda.
Link defeats Ganon in the Dark World.

Link's Awakening
The fifth Link leaves Hyrule and washes up on Koholint Island.
He awakens the Wind Fish and escapes his dream.

The Legend of Zelda
Ganon is resurrected and kidnaps the sixth Zelda.
Impa finds the sixth Link to seek out the Triforce of Wisdom and defeat Ganon.
The sixth Link kills Ganon once and for all.

The Adventure of Link
The sixth Link gains the Triforce of Courage when he turns sixteen.
Impa tells him of the first Princess Zelda, and sends him on a quest to wake her up.
Ganon's minions try to kill him to resurrect Ganon.
Link defeats Dark Link and awakens the first Zelda.

 

[Warrior of Zarona]

I agree with mostly everything you've said except for dumping most of the games in the child timeline. Everything you placed after Oracles in Child is actually what I have placed after Phantom Hourglass in Adult. Also, FSA comes before FS. In fact, I might even say FSA happened before OoT.

I've put up my argument from months ago in the page right before this one, so if you want to go ahead and read that, you should. Meanwhile, I look forward to reading why you placed the games where they are.

 

[pokemega32]

I agree with mostly everything you've said except for dumping most of the games in the child timeline. Everything you placed after Oracles in Child is actually what I have placed after Phantom Hourglass in Adult. Also, FSA comes before FS. In fact, I might even say FSA happened before OoT.

I've put up my argument from months ago in the page right before this one, so if you want to go ahead and read that, you should. Meanwhile, I look forward to reading why you placed the games where they are.

FSA can't come before FS, as Vaati is killed in FSA...

Besides, Nintendo has stated that FSA is the direct sequel to FS....

Edit: Also, Twilight Princess is confirmed to be in the Child Timeline...

 

[Warrior of Zarona]

Agh, sorry. I'm rusty as hell and I've forgotten almost everything. You're right, FS comes before FSA.

I'll need to re-do my homework again on this topic.

Also, I have TP in my child timeline, but TP is suppose to be a sequel to OoT, and so I have it before Oracles and after MM. Also, Ganondorf is dead at the end of TP, and with Oracles, he's dead at the beginning of the game and there are those who are attempting to resurrect him. Of course, that's still a little sketchy for me.

Here's my timeline so you can reference to it if you have any questions, but I'll need to warm up on the subject again before I debate.

TMC > FS > OoT > Timesplit:

Adult: WW > FSA > ALttP > LA > LoZ > AoL

Child: MM > TP > Oracles

^-Lots of Edits there, so you might want to re-read it.

 

[pokemega32]

Here's my timeline so you can reference to it if you have any questions, but I'll need to warm up on the subject again before I debate.

TMC > FS > OoT > Timesplit:

Adult: WW > FSA > ALttP > LA > LoZ > AoL

Child: MM > TP > Oracles

Okay, let's see...

I'm pretty sure FSA is meant to take place directly after FS, meaning both before ALttP...

Also, OoA/S start with Link already in contact with the Triforce, meaning it's the hero of the previous game, which I doubt is Twilight Princess....

Now, until they release a game after Phantom Hourglass that explains how Hyrule isn't underwater anymore, I stick to the idea that most of the games are in the Child Timeline after TP...

 

[Warrior of Zarona]

That doesn't work because Aonuma outright says that FS is THE oldest tale of LoZ at the time before TMC was released. With TMC being a background story on Vaati, it must mean that TMC must be right before. But with Ganondorf's appearance in FSA, it must mean that FSA must be sometime after OoT.

Man, I love getting back into this.

 

[pokemega32]

That doesn't work because Aonuma outright says that FS is THE oldest tale of LoZ at the time before TMC was released. With TMC being a background story on Vaati, it must mean that TMC must be right before. But with Ganondorf's appearance in FSA, it must mean that FSA must be sometime after OoT.

Man, I love getting back into this.

Really? I don't remember reading that before....

 

[Warrior of Zarona]

Feel free to read it now here.

How do the Links in The Four Swords Adventure relate to the overall story line? Or is it just a subchapter or something like that?

Aonuma: The GBA Four Swords Zelda is what we’re thinking as the oldest tale in the Zelda timeline. With this one on the GameCube being a sequel to that, and taking place sometime after that.

 

[Eight Sage]

Really? I don't remember reading that before....

Yes It's true

FS Is the last Zelda entry on the time line

HERE I highly recommend to see this.

 

[pokemega32]

Yes It's true

FS Is the last Zelda entry on the time line

HERE I highly recommend to see this.

Okay, so the timelines go:

Adult: TMC, FS, OoT, WW, PH

Child: TMC, FS, OoT, MM, OoA/S, TP, FSA, ALttP, LA, TLoZ, TAoL

 

[Warrior of Zarona]

Care to explain why you have TP after Oracles and not before?

Remember that Ganondorf was dead at the beginning of Oracles. With the timeline you have now, it doesn't make sense unless you have TP before.

 

[Eight Sage]

Care to explain why you have TP after Oracles and not before?

Remember that Ganondorf was dead at the beginning of Oracles. With the timeline you have now, it doesn't make sense unless you have TP before.

Woot! He made a point there.

Ganondorf is dead in OoA/OoS, so TP won't work after them.

Also, FS is the last entry on the time line! didn't you see Warrior of Zarona's quote or my link?

WARNING! Epic mistake ---> OoT is FIRST!

 

[pokemega32]

Care to explain why you have TP after Oracles and not before?

Remember that Ganondorf was dead at the beginning of Oracles. With the timeline you have now, it doesn't make sense unless you have TP before.

There are two problems with that...

First of all, the Link in the Oracle games, already has contact with the Triforce, meaning it's the Link of the previous game, and I doubt this is TP Link.

Second, Twinrova isn't actually successfull in resurrecting Ganon, as Zelda is not sacrificed.
The Ganon they create is a mindless imitation.

His random resurrection may be explained in a sequel to Twilight Princess....

More proof of this theory is that Ganon doesn't take on his blue pig form until FSA, yet Twinrova "resurrects" him in that form...

Edit: About FS, how does oldest mean at the end?

 

[Warrior of Zarona]

There are two problems with that...

First of all, the Link in the Oracle games, already has contact with the Triforce, meaning it's the Link of the previous game, and I doubt this is TP Link.

It still doesn't explain how Ganondorf is dead. With the timeline you have now, you're going to have to explain how he's dead, when clearly in the child timeline, especially explained in Twilight Princess, that he was captured and sent to be executed, only to receive the Triforce of Power, kill one of the sages, then sent to the Twilight Realm. He's been there ever since.

Second, Twinrova isn't actually successfull in resurrecting Ganon, as Zelda is not sacrificed.
The Ganon they create is a mindless imitation.

His random resurrection may be explained in a sequel to Twilight Princess....

Which doesn't answer the question I presented.

In all honesty, the oracles can fit into many places of the timeline. It could be after LttP, or it could be after AoL. One thing is certain - it's most definitely not before TP.

Edit: And you just disproved your own theory.

More proof of this theory is that Ganon doesn't take on his blue pig form until FSA, yet Twinrova "resurrects" him in that form...