Zelda - Timeline, story, weird miscellany, etc. discussion. (USE SPOILER TAGS)

[Raccoon87]

I have just recently restarted playing Wind Waker again, and I have noticed a few things.

One: I believe that Dragon Roost Island is the remains of Dodongo's Cavern, or at least in some form. The boss battle room looks an awfully like Dodongo's Cavern's room.
Two: Two dungeons were not included in the game. I believe they were going to be on Greatfish Isle (why Quill says to leave as soon as possible) and on the Ghost Ship.
Third: Someone again mentions the fact that with the time left on earth, once again pointing to the fact that it might be Miyamoto's idea of the early earth.

 

[Dark Young Link]

"Once again", Raccoon? That idea has been brought up before? It's new to me... Like middle Earth, you mean? Quite interesting....

Oh, and I really like your placement for the deleted dungeons! I never thought about the Ghost Ship before... I had always thought it would have been Fire Island and uh... that Ice thing...

 

[Termite03]

Hello everybody, Im newly registered and I wanna put my 2 cents in.

Something I've noticed about all the different Zelda games is the location of the Master Sword.

In Oot the Master Sword is in the Temple of Time, at the end of the game Link puts the sword back to that spot.

In LttP, the Hyrule Market doesnt exist and the Temple Time isnt their either. The Master Sword is in the Lost Woods. Which Link put the sword back to at the end of the game.

Then, in WW the Master Sword is in Hyrule Castle.

So could this possibly mean that there are different Hyrules in some of the games?

 

[The rAt]

No, Termite03, No... you may NOT add your two cents... the holy sacred two cents belong to me, and are mine and mine alone to distribute... you shall pay for your imputence... Lol, j/k. The two cents are kinda my running joke, but issalllgood. On behalf of me, welcome.
As far as your multiple Hyrule's theory goes, that fits in okay if we're going by WW as directly following OoT/MM. One could even go so far as to theorize that every few games a new hyrule is created (thus explaining both similarities and discrepencies between games), along with a new Link. Heck, some think that each game is a different dimension of the same Hyrule. I think that can be disproved by the existence fo Holodrum, Termina and Koholint, all seperate dimensions of Hyrule (okay, so Koholint was a dream, and Holodrum could have been just a neighboring land, but ya can't disprove Termina). My theory on the whole thing is this: the maps were never meant to match up. I mean, come on, how fun would a game be if it had the same map as it's predicessor games? Of course they have to include familiar places, but why put them where they've been before? You'd already know where everything is! I'd say you can chalk it all up to seismic activity and just not worry about it, because the purpose of the differences is in the game mechanics, not the plot.
And that's the TRUE two cents...

 

[Dark Young Link]

the Termite vs. the rAt... who will win?...

Hello, Termite. Guys, Termite is my pal from Camp Hyrule. He knows his stuff, so give a warm welcome!

I think after WW, there's no much argument - There definitely is more than one Hyrule. Here's how I figure it: OoT, the Master Sword was in the Temple of Time, as it was meant to be. After Link put it back and left Hyrule, the temple was destroyed by Ganon's war with Hyrule, so it was moved to the castle for safety reasons. In the end of WW (SPOILER WARNING) it's in Ganon's head, and after that, who knows? But somehow, it ends up in the Lost Woods of the new Hyrule. This should be explained in the next Zelda game... After LttP, it's put back in the pedestal, presumably forever... but then there's LoZ and AoL. I haven't gotten to that part in LoZ yet...

rAt, I agree with you all the way, too. This might be one of those things that was changed simply because it would work better gameplay wise. But we can still make up stories that explain the unexplained... Such is the fun of this topic!

 

[Termite03]

Thank you DYL I appreciate the welcome.

Another thing that i was thinkin about was the triforce pieces.

In LoZ you had to collect 8 pieces of the triforce of courage. In WW you have to do the same. But there was a part in which link had only the triforce of courage piece engraved on his right hand. I LttP he had all of them at the end. How did Zelda lose her piece? I assume Link took Ganon's power piece when he killed him. But what about Zelda's? and, why would link have to collect the triforce pieces twice? if he had them in WW then why would he have to collect them again?

 

[Lightsaberboy]

so, before ocarina of time, was link called the hero of time, or just hero? now ever since ww, he's known as the hero of winds, so is he no longer the hero of time, and now the hero of winds? will he be the hero of something else later on in the future??? O_o

 

[firaga01]

Well, I assume that before OOT, Link was known as, well, Link. After he used time to save Hyrule, though, he was known as trhe "Hero of Time." The same applies with the Hero of Wind stitle only it incorporated wind. Hm, I dunno. Will Link move onto elements? I don't really see anything more they can really add to make Link other than to give him terraforming powers.....that would br so cool! But I think that would have to wait for a later system. Maybe make LoZ into an eventual RPG? Although I think they're running out of idea, Miyamoto will surely pull some sort of innovative rabbit out of his magical hat.

 

[Dark Young Link]

I agree, before OoT... well Link wasn't a hero... He was just a normal forest kid... But I guess they called him Mr. No Fairy... Then after OoT they called him the Hero of Time, and then he went to Termina and I duno, they called him Fairy boy or something, because as far as I know, only the Happy Mask Salesmen, Tael, Tatl and Skull Kid knew that he was the one who saved their world... Then he eventually went back to Hyrule and presumably died. Then Link in WW was born and became the Hero of Winds... We don't know yet what happens to him next. Surely someday he will die... And eventually, LttP will happen where, as far as I know, he's just some random boy to most people. I don't think he has any names after that, but we have yet to see lots, I hope...

As for your question, Termite, I had thought of that before. But until now, I never had an explanation for it. How about this? When Ganon captured Zelda, he took her piece like he did way back in WW, and when you jumped into the Tower to fight Ganon for the last time, all the Triforce pieces were close, so they took the liberty to merge back into the Triforce like they also did in WW. Then the winner of that battle would claim the spoils... Every time you won, it was Link...

Maybe Link's wish was for the Triforce to be hidden again, and thus the legend continues in LoZ...

 

[Suzaku]

Some of Zelda:The Wind Waker is confusing.

 

[Raccoon87]

But in Wind Waker, neither Ganon nor Link gets to make a wish. It's the king that touches the Triforce and makes his wish. Maybe it's just when the three are showing their courage, power, or wisdom that the Triforce forms.

 

[Dark Young Link]

SPOILER WARNING...

Nah, It can't be that, Raccoon, because if you remember, both Zelda and Link were both unconscious when the Triforce came together. It's not wise *or* courageous to be KOed... methinks. All it took was Ganon grabbing Link's arm and shaking him like a rag doll to get that Triforce to pop out.

On a side note, I thought it was oh-so funny when Ganon was reaching for the Triforce, only to find the King already there... HAHA Ganon looked like he was going insane!

 

[Shadow Nataku]

But the thing is didn't Hyrule say that the Link in WW have no relation at all to the original Link?


Plus also I really liked Majora's Mask ending the non-definite ending to it really suited the general game itself. Also just wondering but judging from that ending sequence in WW is Ganon dead?

Because its almost certain to me at the time when Link struck him with the sword Ganon's triforce of power had left him so wouldn't that make him vulnerable to being killed? Plus somehow unlike before I don't think they just sealed him this time being, stabbed in the forehead WITHOUT the triforce of power, turned to stone, crushed by water. The reason I say this is because Ganon didn't transform which as I remember from OoT was because the triforce of power had become filled with hate and vengeance.

PS. I felt kinda sorry for the big dork, having the ultimate power of the universe in front of you and having it snatched away under your breath about 3 or 4 times in a row must have a impact on you.

 

[Chibi Seph]

Originally posted by Shadow Nataku
But the thing is didn't Hyrule say that the Link in WW have no relation at all to the original Link?

I cant remember for certain, but I think that somewhere in the game it says that he is Link's ancestor. I may, and probably will be wrong, but I think I heard that... :/

As for Ganon being dead, well you'd really think so, after getting the master sword driving through his skull and then turning to stone, but you know Ganon, he always finds a way back

 

[The rAt]

As far as Gannon being dead, i have an idea... what if the dark realm is really like ****? Like an afterlife place? I mean, from descriptions i've heard of the Sacred Rhealm, it seems like a sort of heaven, or at least some level of it could be heaven. Then when Gannon got in, of course, he would have turned it into ****. I mean, that would make sense how Gannon keeps getting killed, yet keeps coming back each time. It would also make sense in LTTP how there are all these people around who "stumbled into" the dark realm, but they could have just been bad people and died or something. Just a thought. Not sure exactly how that would work, but it's an idea...

Y'know, i got to thinking and i realized; if i keep giving two cents of myself away like this, pretty soon there's not gonna be anything left...

 

[Shadow Nataku]

I cant remember for certain, but I think that somewhere in the game it says that he is Link's ancestor. I may, and probably will be wrong, but I think I heard that... :/

I just checked playing through the 2nd quest and at no point at all is there any mention of Link being related to the Hero of Time...

In fact during the 2nd quest since you can understand Hylian you get to hear an interesting quote by Lord Jabun to The King of Red Lions.
'Are you saying that I should leave the fate of Hyrule to this boy who has no relation what so ever to the Hero of Time?'

For me that about clears it up....

But as for the Sacred Realm becoming ]-[311 thats actually a reasonable explanation....since it was mentioned during Ocarina of Time that the Sacred Realm would become a Paradise or a Realm of Darkness depending on the desires of the one who touched it as it reflected the heart...as we know Ganondorf was the first to touch it but wasn't able to claim the full power because it shattered into 3 pieces.
Then in Link to the Past where you enter the Dark Realm LInk turns into a Bunny....

My guess is you take on whatever form your heart is best reflected in the Sacred Realm as by the Triforce but the one who is first to touch it is the one the Sacred Realm takes after....and as stated Ganondorf corrupted the Triforce with Anger and Hatred during the last battle against the Hero of Time when he transformed.
Hence Link's bunny transformation and Ganon already being in his Ogre form from the end battle of OoT at the end of Link to the Past. But I'm guessing he finally gained control of that form by Link to the Past as in OoT he wasn't actually able to control the form because he was engulfed in hatred and anger and since the Triforce reflected that he lost himself. But in LttP he was speaking in normal sentences and fought as effectively as Link himself instead of rampaging around.
In WW as I said earlier I think he did indeed exhaust his powers and also the Triforce had left them at the end which is why he did the Swordfight and didn't transform or go for a all-powerful spell unlike the other games.

 

[InfiniDragon615]

Personally, I think the series is sort of unconnected. Of course, there are parts of the series that go together, but for the most part, it's like the Breath of Fire games: a Link, a Zelda and a Dorf will always be there, even if the world's completely different. That being said, here's my thoughts on the timeline:

The first Link: falls in love with Zelda (this is important to my point).

Ocarina of Time
Majora's Mask

The second Link: presumably falls for Tetra/Zelda.

Wind Waker
Wind Waker's sequel (no name yet)

The third Link: this Link doesn't get with Zelda at the end, even though he liked her; Thus, the reason Marin existed, and the reason he loves her instead.

A Link to the Past
Link's Awakening

The fourth Link: Zelda's his GF from the getgo; I think this is connected to OOT like WW is.

Oracle Series

The fifth Link: Zelda's BF from the beginning (see my point?).

The Legend of Zelda
The Adventure of Link

So, the Link is technically different as the games progress, and the story slightly varies, too. For example, if Link came back to Hyrule after leaving Termina, how did Ganondorf overthrow like they said he did in WW? I highly doubt Link would have sat back and did nothing, yet the "official" timeline says that WW was 100 years after the events of OOT and MM, and that the prologue to the game is referring to after OOT/MM.

Another thing-if all the Links are descendants of the first and not just another Link, one would most likely assume Zelda's the mother of these Links. Why doesn't he have some kickazz light magic, or the ability to turn into a ninja? Why would the newer Link fall in love with someone EXACTLY like his mother?? How do the Zeldas keep looking the same???

A third note-the Master Sword could be the exact same sword in theory, but how the h3ll does it get from one place to another?

First Link: Temple of Time
Second Link: Hyrule Castle
Third Link: Lost Woods
Fourth Link: Not even sure if there is one in this game
Fifth Link: In some cave, called the "Magical Sword"

So, I think some are connected, but for the most part, they are in alternate universes of whatnot, kinda like the Gundam shows.

 

[Shadow Nataku]

yet the "official" timeline says that WW was 100 years after the events of OOT and MM

The actual in game text actually says...'several' 100 years later....

It isn't just the 100.....

Link's Awakening

The fourth Link: Zelda's his GF from the getgo; I think this is connected to OOT like WW is.

Actually I think the Link's Awakening one is the same as Wind Waker one seeing as the Link's Awakening one was a Sailor as well and got stranded on that island. Plus since Link set off again after defeating Ganon in Wind Waker I think he probably got washed up or trapped by accident.

Also I think the Oracle series are actually in the Link to the Past timeline......which in turn is a alternate universe thing like Gundam.
After all in Oracle series he just suddenly walks upto the Triforce at the begining of the game which is already assembled plus Ganon is nowhere in sight so it'd have to be after a recent defeat of Ganon which would be the only the Triforce could temporarily reform.

 

[InfiniDragon615]

Link's Awakening has Link #3 (the one in LttP), not #4. But besides that, you could be right.

 

[Fox_2k3]

Originally posted by Chibi Seph
I cant remember for certain, but I think that somewhere in the game it says that he is Link's ancestor. I may, and probably will be wrong, but I think I heard that... :/

As for Ganon being dead, well you'd really think so, after getting the master sword driving through his skull and then turning to stone, but you know Ganon, he always finds a way back

You are right When you go to grab the master sword the King of hyrule says that This guy(I don't like to call him link) and tetra are Link and Zelda's ancestors.

I really didn't like this game a lot because it's not the OoT link, Zelda. The only ones who are still in that game from OoT are Ganon, King of Hyrule, Tingle, Wind Sage, Earth Sage. Nintendo should continue the OoT story not let the original link just dye.

Ganon will be back

 

[The rAt]

Okay, hold on a sec, what's this a few posts back about Zelda being the mother of Link?? I mean a) the each Link is not just a generation apart (in fact more like hundreds of generations) and b) Link and Zelda never hook up. I mean, granted, i've never beaten Zelda 1 and 2, but then, it's been pointed out that 1 and 2 are likely the last to take place in the series. At the end of OoT, Link1 (okay, at least this much has been established; the Link from OoT is the first Link) is sent back to the past, in otherwords, they are back to little kids. Link1 leaves Hyrule and ends up in Termina. Granted we don't know much about what happens to him afterwards, but it's possible that he never returns to Hyrule, much less get involved with Zelda1. I mean, if Link and Zelda got together, then there wouldn't be any future Zeldas, because future Zeldas are descendents of Zelda1. I will entertain most crazy ideas but this one is just not logical...
As far as the differences in the locations of the Master's sword, i've said it once, and i'll say it again, it's purely to keep players from knowing exactly where it is from previous games. I don't know if there are any plausible plot reasons, other than moving it to keep it hidden from something.
Anyways, as far as alternate dimsensions go, it's plausible, but not likely, as it's obviously the same Gannon in each game, not to mention countless references between games. Therefore it would be far more logical, considering that it is also obviously different Links in many of the games, that as it has been stated countless times before, that they are all on the same timeline, merely different generations of the same bloodline(s). Furthermore it can be stated logically, that every odd game starts a new generation of Link (as InfiniDragon615's earlier post showed, except that it is a different generation, not a different universe).

That's two rupees worth of Zelda history for ya...

 

[Chibi Seph]

I just noticed something today when I beat WW for the second time. (Most of you will know that you arent wearing your kokiri tunic, but your regular island clothes)
After defeating Ganon, you know how that sort of plastic wrap goes over you, so that Link and Tetra can breathe underwater? Well the funny thing was when the "plastic wrap" goes over "Link" there was still an indication of his kokiri hat being there, but obviously, he wasnt wearing one. On top of that, when they surfaced the water, "Link" was all of a sudden wearing the Kokiri clothes. I found this to be quite odd.

Even at the end of the game (after the credits) when the pirates, and "Link" sail off, "Link's" sail goes backwards...

 

[Shadow Nataku]

Originally posted by The rAt
That's two rupees worth of Zelda history for ya...

I want my two rupees back!

n_n

 

[Shy Guy]

Hey Chibi Seph, I've got an answer for you. The new clothes Link gets at the beginning of the game, remember their description? Remember how Granny said only those pure of heart will be able to see the clothes? Thats your answer.

On the subject of multiple Links, there are many Links. Only arrogant n00bs who worship Adult Link think otherwise...

The timeline, in my opinion goes like this:

OOT, MM(First Link)
Wind Waker(Second Link)
LLTP, LA(Third Link)
LOZ, LOZ2(Last Link)

Seasons and Ages are spinoffs, they have absolutely nothing to do with the storyline...-_-

If you'd like an explanation on my storyline, here it is:

First Link: No explanation needed...

Second Link: Takes place after Majora's Mask because of the many references, no reference to Link the Third or Link the Fourth. No reference of rebirths or descendants. It's quite obvious...

Third Link: Takes place before LOZ, says on the box of the SNES game. LA clearly states somewhere in the manual/on the box that LTTP's Link went to train, so this is him.

Fourth Link: Read Third Link...

Also, Tingle is not the same Tingle from Majora's Mask. I don't know how I can make it more obvious, besides stating: Yeah, he's been alive for several centuries .


Anywho, if anyone wants to logically prove me wrong, please do. I like a friendly debate. :-p

 

[InfiniDragon615]

Originally posted by Shy Guy
Hey Chibi Seph, I've got an answer for you. The new clothes Link gets at the beginning of the game, remember their description? Remember how Granny said only those pure of heart will be able to see the clothes? Thats your answer.

On the subject of multiple Links, there are many Links. Only arrogant n00bs who worship Adult Link think otherwise...

The timeline, in my opinion goes like this:

OOT, MM(First Link)
Wind Waker(Second Link)
LLTP, LA(Third Link)
LOZ, LOZ2(Last Link)

Seasons and Ages are spinoffs, they have absolutely nothing to do with the storyline...-_-

If you'd like an explanation on my storyline, here it is:

First Link: No explanation needed...

Second Link: Takes place after Majora's Mask because of the many references, no reference to Link the Third or Link the Fourth. No reference of rebirths or descendants. It's quite obvious...

Third Link: Takes place before LOZ, says on the box of the SNES game. LA clearly states somewhere in the manual/on the box that LTTP's Link went to train, so this is him.

Fourth Link: Read Third Link...

Adult Link fans definitely worship the "descendant" theory. It's not true (for reasons posted on my earlier thread), but hey.

Yeah, I didn't even think of the fact that the Oracle games might not even be a part of the whole thing (Although it's a bit odd that LA is considered part of the series and not the Oracle games). So, your list looks quite accurate.

*Infini remembering LA's warp cheat fondly, then putting the thought of any other Zelda out of his head with WW again

 

[The rAt]

InfiniDragon615, i think it's pretty rude to say that Adult Link fans worship the "descendent" theory, and pretty pompus to say that it's wrong, considering that i'm reading your previous post trying to explain how they are all "unconnected". From what i can tell, this idea of yours is based on three points, which i will address separately; Link and Zelda hooking up in OoT, Gannon being able to miraculously return and destroy hyrule in just a short 100 years between OoT and WW, and the differences in the placement of the Master Sword. Okay, let's start with Zelda, considering this point proves that you really aren't paying much attention in OoT; Link and Zelda never hook up. It's that simple. Of course they're in love, any idiot can observe that in any Zelda game, because it's always there (granted, having not played 1 and 2, but in WW there is a thing between Tetra, who is ZELDA for crying out loud!, and in LTTP/LA, it hints at a thing between Link and Zelda in the beginning of the game). Does that mean they hook up and have kids? No, because that is just as prevelent in Zelda games; they never actually DO something about it. Especially more so in OoT, because he goes back to the past as soon as he's done saving Hyrule; there's no time!
Point number two. True in the statement issued by Shiggy, it did say something to the extent of 100 years between OoT and WW, but then in the game itself in the intro it says something like 100's of years have passed. Which could mean someone messed up transelating Shiggy's statement, or he was misleading us. Either way, it has obviously been more than 100 years, which has made me ponder whether or not it is actually the last game (considering it's the only game besides OoT to actually feature Gannondorf and not Gannon, as well as the destruction of Hyrule, ect.). In any case, it's not a valid arguement, considering that it's THE SAME Gannondorf as from OoT. Therefore WW would have to be from the same timeline as OoT, disproving the theory that every other game starts a new alternate universe.
Thirdly the Master Sword placement. You remember when Link talks to the Hylian sage (i don't remember what his name was) just after he became an adult and was still in the sacred realm? He said that the master sword was not just a weapon to fight evil, but a key to enter the sacred realm (hence how Link can use it to warp through time). Now if that holds true in other Zelda games (hey, look at LttP, you have to get the Master's Sword before you can enter the Sacred/Dark realm), wouldn't you want to move it around so that it didn't fall into the wrong hands? I mean, granted only certain people can pull the sword, then whoever got ahold of it could just con some young hero into pulling it just like Gannondorf did.
Wow, InfiniDragon615, you really showed us how it COULDN'T POSSIBLY be on simple timeline, now didn't you! Next time, don't claim absolute correctness on a many sided issue...

That's two cents...

 

[Dark Young Link]

First I must rid our precious topic of all the OoT Fanboyism. Someone once said “Stop looking at the Zelda series through OoT colored glasses”. This is good advice. To those of you who jumped on the OoT bandwagon, two things: Link is not “meant” to be an adult, he was a teenager in every game before OoT. And most importantly, there is more than one Link! At the moment, there are four different Links. I’m sorry to burst your bubbles, but this is the way it has been long before OoT. Deal with it. Fox 2k3, I’m talking to you. And another thing, you’ve got pretty much everything else wrong as well. His name is Link in WW. If you want proof, I will take a picture of Ganon, Zelda, the King or anyone you like calling him Link. Hah. Also, the ones still around from OoT are Ganon, the King, the Great Deku Tree, the Koroks, and maybe the Great Fairies. Tingle is just an imposter, and the sages are descendants of Mido and Ruto.

Now back to business. I use to think that the oracle games came before LoZ and AoL, but more thought on the subject has made me wonder. Let me explain. If you were to beat both OoA and OoS (I really have to work on that) you would see that the Twinrova sisters revive Ganon from the dead. This literally forces these two games to be chronologically placed at one of three spots. After WW, after LttP or after AoL. Because these are the only times so far that Ganon as supposedly died. Now, We don’t really know what happened to him after WW, and besides, WW2 is coming after it, so I think we can discard that spot. It could still very well come after LttP, and that would leave Ganon alive for LoZ. Or, it could come after LoZ.

Maybe I’ll make this a REALLY long post and add a short account of events in a way that everything fits together. What do ya say? Up for the read?

OoT: Ganon touches the Triforce, Link and Zelda get their pieces. Link travels through time and stops Ganon with the help of the seven Sages. Zelda sends Link back in time to live out a normal life. Link doesn’t listen to her and instead goes in search for his friend.

MM: Link follows Skull Kid into the other world, thus losing his Triforce. There he beats Skull Kid and spends some time in Termina before returning to Hyrule. When he finally does return, Ganon is still gone so he lives a peaceful life. Link dies at some point by natural causes.

some time after MM: Ganon returns, somehow, and with no Link around to thwart his evil plans, he takes over Hyrule. The Master Sword is moved to the castle for safety reasons. Without Link around, the people of Hyrule figure they have no other options, so they prey to the goddesses, who take care of the situation by flooding the land, preventing Ganon from obtaining his ultimate goal. At some point, Link’s spirit is reborn in a boy on Outset Isle. Ganon thinks that if he is to get Hyrule the way he wants it, he will need to enlist the full support of the Triforce, so he goes in search for the descendant of princess Zelda. He gets his bird to capture all the Hylian girls it can find.

WW: Link’s younger sister is kidnapped by this bird, being Hylian herself. Link, having no knowledge of his ancestor’s role as the Hero of Time, sets out merely to rescue his kid sis. Meeting with the old King of Hyrule, he is told that there is one way to put a stop to this evil, and Link sets off on his adventure. Link discovers his true role as the Hero of Time reborn, and uses the Master Sword to put a stop to Ganon with the help of Zelda. But not before Ganon was able to reunite the Triforce. The King of Hyrule, however, is the second person to touch the Triforce, and wishes that Hyrule is washed away. The Triforce scatters to the wind. Link and Tetra go in search for a new Hyrule.

after WW: Ganon is somehow revived, and takes the Master Sword with him in search of this new Hyrule. The Master Sword ends up in what will become the Lost Woods. Somehow, Ganon is re-sealed inside the Dark World. Link dies some time after his second adventure.

LttP: Link is reborn in a boy who is now under the care of his uncle. Ganon uses Aghnhim (sp) to capture the descendants of the seven sages, which he needs to free himself from the Dark World. Link finds the Master Sword again and then finds Ganon who is about to sacrifice the seven maidens. At this time, Link, Zelda, and Ganon are together once again, so the Triforce also gathers in the room behind them. Link defeats Ganon once more, and takes the Triforce in its entirety.

LA:Link is having a dream…

after LttP: Link gives the Triforce to the King of Hyrule to use to help protect the land. Link dies some time later. I’m getting tired of writing, so I’ll go a bit quicker now… Some generations later, The prince of Hyrule (yes I said prince) wants to make his sister, Zelda, tell him what she knows about the Triforce, but things get out of hand and she ends up asleep (LOL). The prince puts her in a room with a scroll telling how to awake her. The Master Sword is stolen by some thieves and placed in a cave for save keeping.

LoZ: Link is reborn for the last time. Ganon is back somehow and has stolen the Triforce with (of) Power. Zelda split her piece up and hid them. Link finds the eight pieces of the Triforce with (of) Wisdom and kills Ganon “once and for all”. The Triforce is safely back in the hands of the royal family.

AoL: Link finds a mark one day on his hand and questions Impa about it. Impa is shocked and takes Link to the chamber where (the old) Zelda was put away so many years ago. Link reads the scroll, which can only be read by the one worthy of the legendary Triforce of Courage, and it tells him that he must go in search for the pieces of his Triforce, which the King had hidden so long ago for the one worthy of it to find it. Link finds the Triforce of Courage

Oracles Link is called by the Triforce to help the worlds of Labrynna and Holodrum. He still has the mark on his hand.

Okay! I am too tired to check my sources and whatnot. I have never played AoL, and I’m working on LoZ, so I might be shady on those games. Feel free to correct me there.

 

[The rAt]

DYL is in the hIZouse!

Hey DYL, been wondering where ya were. Anyway, props for doing your homework. A couple of things i'd point out, though. First off, regaurdless of whether or not it is the popular idea, i think its fair to recognize the dual timeline theory. That, for those of you who don't know, basically is the idea that Link's timetravel in OoT created a second timeline. It's not exactly set which games would fall into which timeline, except to say that MM would be the first game in one timeline and WW would be the first in the other. Anyways a few pages back DYL showed that niether idea is an absolute, so it's a matter of oppinion. Secondly, it's been proposed that WW could actually be the last game chronologically, mainly because of the destruction of Hyrule and loss of Master's Sword (and a few other things, point being that we will have to wait, because hopefully the sequel will prove/disprove either timeline order), which brings me to my final point; it's important to note that any events that are said to fall between WW and LttP are of course pure speculation, because much of it will likely be addressed in the sequel to WW. Other than those points, i'd say ya hit the nail on the head, DYL.

Two cents a'day keeps the rAt away...

 

[Dark Young Link]

Yeah, rAt. The boards have been up and down, and up and down so sporadically recently, I didn't think there would have been so much going on in here. But thanks for the warm welcome back.

I won't completely dismiss the dual timeline theory, even though, I don't support it. But as a possibility, and a sign of my openness, here's how I see it.
Young Link timeline:
OoT: Young Link does not fight here, because in this timeline, OoT is prevented… by Link… it’s one of those weird time travel things. Instead, he sees the princess for whatever reason and then goes to in search for his friend.

MM: Link is drawn into this place by skull kid, you all know the rest. Nothing crucial to the rest of the timeline. He comes back after some time and dies in Hyrule.

Adult Link timeline:
OoT: The Seven-Years-War begins. Link travels through time and defeats Ganon, sending him into the Golden Land and ending the war. Link dies eventually and his Triforce is scattered across the land.

WW: Ganon escapes some how and because Link is not around, he forces the goddesses to flood the land. Link is eventually reborn, and puts a stop to Ganon’s evil by turning him to stone.

WW2: Who knows what happens, but somehow, Ganon is recaptured in the Golden Land.

LttP: Ganon is trying to escape from his imprisonment in what is now the Dark World. Link kills him, however, rescues the seven maidens and obtains the Triforce.

LA: Link is having a dream…

LoZ: Ganon is back and is looking for the Triforce of Wisdom. Link must find the eight pieces, rescue Zelda, and kill Ganon for good.

AoL: Link has a mark on his hand and now goes on a search for the Triforce of Courage.

Oracles: Because Link obtained the Triforce in it’s entirety, it is able to send him on this quest to save the two lands. In the end, Ganon is brought back from death by the Twinrova (sp) sisters, but Link stops him once again.

Young Link sure doesn’t have much to do, does he? I was putting LttP and LA in his timeline to give him more to do, but in LttP, the Imprisoning War is mentioned, so we know for fact that LttP can’t have happened in Young Link’s timeline… So that means Young Link actually never even sees Ganon… See, I don’t like this theory… Too many things are inconsistent. Maybe I just don’t have it right. This is my first attempt at the dual timeline theory…

 

[The rAt]

DYL, that looks about right, although i seem to remember thinking LOZ, AOL, and the Oracle games falling into YL's timeline, though i'm not exactly sure why. Anyway, the reason why i recognize the two timeline theory is because it seems to make more sense in terms of the ending of OoT (to me anyway). I mean, when YL goes to the future, Zelda has fleed the castle, leaving her absent for the entire seven year periode where Link is gone, while Gannondorf is taking over. But the game ends with Y Link visiting Zelda in the courtyard, signalling her return. That clues us in that Link has done something in the past during his timetravels to prevent Gannondorf from taking over. The one flaw in that is that Gannondorf seems to be absent in the YL timeline ever since Gannondorf obtains the triforce of power. It could be assumed that he doesn't take over till later, but the problem with that is that it is said that Zelda stays in hiding for seven years, i mean ya see her riding off with Impa for crying out loud. To compound this flaw in the one timeline theory, in MM Link has a flashback to just before he left to "find his friend" involving Zelda, who again, is supposed to be absent. This, compounded with the fact that Link returns to the exact moment he left when returning to the past, leaving no amount of time for Gannondorf to enter the sacred realm and obtain the triforce, seems to point to the dual timeline theory.
However, if you look at the whole issue of the Spirit Temple, when Nabooru is captured, it doesn't seem to fit into two timelines. See Nabooru is captured in YL's timeperiod, but it happens AFTER he begins timetraveling. When he goes back to the future, it carries over, in that he has to rescue her. If it were two separate universes, then nothing that happened or that Link did after his first time jump would carry over to the alternate universe. So, i guess it can be said there are flaws in either theory, niether are absolute, though from the current standpoint, it looks more logical to assume that it is a single timeline.
So, for the sake of my sanity as well as the rest of the world's, unless something that can earthshatteringly smash the single timeline theory to bits, i suggest we just assume that its the standard.
Wow, that's gotta be four cents right there! Guess i was feeling generous today...

 

[Dark Young Link]

I have a hard time grasping the concept of time travel, mainly because I try to put too much logic into it, but without further evidence that time travel is even possible, that can’t happen. This is why I don’t like the dual timeline theory, and why I don’t like discussing the events that take place after Ganon is sealed in the Golden Land. Because by all logic, the next part can’t happen!

I’ll try once again to make it work right. With all the information we have, this could have very well happened…

The Great Deku Tree tells Link to go see Zelda. He does, and she tells him what he must do next. He goes out and collects the three spiritual stones. When on his way back to see Zelda again, he is passed by Impa and Zelda on horseback, speeding into Hyrule field. On their way out, Zelda leaves the Ocarina of Time in Link’s hand. Next Ganondorf bursts out the gates looking for Zelda. Link goes to the Temple of Time and withdraws the Master Sword, placing him into a deep sleep for the next seven years. Then Ganon uses the door Link opened to enter the Golden Land and touches the Triforce. I will assume that Ganon takes some amount of time in the Golden Land, and during that time is when adult Zelda puts Link back to live his life. Link decides to visit Zelda’s garden for whatever reason, and to his surprise, Zelda is still there. Maybe Zelda came back to get some things to survive. Or maybe she figured Ganon wouldn’t be back for a while. Or maybe she was trying to tell her dad what Ganon was up to. But for whatever reason, she was there and Link found her. This would explain the odd look on her face. She was worried it was Ganon back to get her. Zelda knows why Link is back, she knows that after this is all over, she will send Link back here. But Link doesn’t yet know of what will come. Zelda tell Link that all will be okay now, because she knows that if Link knows the truth, he will want to intervene. So Link goes in search for his friend, thinking everything is fine and dandy. Link ends up in Termina and spends the next decade or so there before finally coming back. This leaves time for the Seven-Years-War and the final battle between Link and Ganon. By the time young Link comes back, everything is over and all that remains is a broken, but liberated Hyrule.

I know the part about Zelda coming back is a little hard to swallow, but with the huge mess we have here, and neither theory absolute, I think this is a good start towards a solid theory. This would solve the first major glitch in the single timeline theory, and I don’t see any reason why it couldn’t have worked. Just like any epic story, it’s a bit amazing at times, but it’s better than what we had before. And it’s no different than some other parts of the story…

 

[firaga01]

Heh, good to seel all of you still trying to piece together the Zelda timeline. I wouldve joined in sooner, but this somehow escaped my mind

Anways, I find one problem with DYL's ltest theory: it can't be true. MM couldn't have happened during OOT because Link lost Navi after he placed the Master Sword back into the Pedestal of Time.

Another thin I have trouble understanding is how the Master Sword ended up in the Hyrulian Castle. Not just anyone could lift the Master Sword out of the Temple of Time, so how was this accomplished? Well, some descendant of Link must have put it there, of course. If there really was a descendant of the Hero of Time that picked up the Master Sword, just how much farther down the timeline did WW really occur?

Well, hope you guys can use these points to maybe better your own theories on the timeline, but in my opinion, you cant fit a square block through a circular hole no matter how hard you try.

 

[Dark Young Link]

The first thing you brought up has a very simple answer. How Majora’s Mask happened during OoT. In fact, it could not have happened any other way. Could NOT, if you think about it. MM takes place during Link’s youth, am I correct? When he was ten. Now as far as I know, humans and Hylians alike only have one childhood. Link was only young once. This was during OoT and some ten years before it. But the point is, Link was ten when he began his adventure in Termina, and this is also the time period in which OoT was taking place. The thing is, from Link’s perspective, OoT happened, and then he was sent back in time (to right before the Seven-Years-War) and went on to Termina. Get it? In short, Link was in Termina during the Seven-Years-War. He was also asleep in the um, sage thing… It’s like, there was two Links at the same time. It’s the only way the ending of OoT can happen, if you think about it.

The second thing you said I can only answer with speculation. I assume that the sword was not drawn from it’s stone, but the whole floor was moved to the castle. The only other way I can see it happening is if what you said is true, and Link’s descendant moved it.

 

[firaga01]

Woah, woah. Who said that MM took place when Link was 10? Last time I checked, Link was 12 when he started OOT!

Well, lets say I never wrote the above paragraph. Fine, we'll see things your way (with the exception being that 10-years-old thing). Link goes to MM during his childhood. Well, tell me this. Does your childhood end at any particular time? Do we really know how long Hylians live? Just how long is their year? Do they rely on a Solar or Lunar calendar? All these things could throw off the supposed age of Link when he starts MM. But lets throw THAT out the window also.

The basic core of your idea is flawed. OOT never really existed; when Zelda sent Link back into the past to relive his childhood, Ganondorf could never have destroyed Hyrule because Link never opened the entrance to the Golden land. He went to search for Navi (but I'm sure some time must've passed during these two events). Therefore, in my humblest opinion, I believe that MM had no chance of occurring during "OOT" since OOT was later considered, well, a legend.

 

[The rAt]

Firaga, good ta see ya

What Firaga is saying gets back to the multiple timelines issue, because 1) If OoT never happened, then none of the other games could have happened (They all involve the one and only Gannon, who wouldn't have gained the power of the triforce witout the events in OoT) and 2) Theoretically, the OoT timeline would still exist, but it would exist separately from real time. Now, obviously, since time travel is only theoretical, it's all guess work, but nearly everything i've ever heard of timetravel, if a result is prevented, it doesn't stop cease to exist, it merely continues on separetly, like a fork in a river. In one timeline, Link goes to Termina (and possibly Holodrum and the land from OA), and all other Zelda games take place in another timeline (as justified by the presence of Gannondorf). Or, just to throw another idea out there, assuming Gannon and Gannondorf are separate entities and Gannon was a preexisting creature that simply took over Gannondorf, then one could argue that all games involving Gannon rather than Gannondorf could fall into the MM timeline, making WW the only one to fall into Adult Link's timeline. However, there's two flaws in this; It is all made under the assumption that Link is sent back to the EXACT moment he left. Who's to say that? It could be possible that he was sent back to a few moments afterwards. That is one of the two central flaws in the dual timeline theory. The second is this; if there were dual timelines, Link couldn't have rescued Nabooru and the seeds that Link planted would never have grown (w/ the exception of seeds planted before he pulled the masters sword). If there are dual timelines (Which, there has to be; there either has to be two timelines, or Adult Link's timeline has to be part of the timeline if there is a single timeline, as all of the other Zelda games have far too many ties to it, therefore they couldn't exist w/out it's existance; we are left w/ two options, one really contorted timeline or two timelines), then the second timeline would have been created upon Link's return from the future, his future becomes an alternate timeline. When as Link returns from the past back to the future, he returns to the preestablished future, not his own future. I'll use an example of what i mean; DBZ Trunks saga. Trunks comes from the future to warn Z-Fighters of disaster. Disaster is prevented (sorta). Trunks future doesn't change, because it's already happend to him, but the Z-Fighters' future changes because they prevented certain things from happening. At this point they become two alternate timelines. Same thing w/ Zelda. Link comes back from a future that is already established for him, therefore any changes, like Nabooru being kidnapped or Link planting plants in a certain spot, ect. (anything he goes back to his past to accomplish), shouldn't carry over. So, this kinda disproves dual timelines i guess, which leaves us w/ one timeline, which, by necessity must contain Adult Link's future to explain the future apperances of Gannon/dorf as well as countless references to events taken place in Link's future, meaning that Zelda must have sent him to moments after Gannondorf obtained the triforce. One possibility for Link's leaving (btw, i seem to remember Link being 10 in OoT, but i also seem to remember him being 12 in MM, so two years would probably have passed, giving him time to obtain young epona, which he did not have during OoT) could be thus. Link sticks around for two years after he returns to the past. Gannondorf, now empowered with the Triforce returns and begins to reek havoc. Link obviously wants to do something about this, seeing as how he knows how it will end up, but feels he cannot do it alone. Enter the search for Navi. He goes to look for Navi to help him take down the now powerful Gannondorf to prevent the future from happening. I would assume it was originally meant to not take very long to find her, as Hyrule isn't huge and he probably assumed Navi would return to the forest anyway, allowing him plenty of time to return and stop Gannondorf. Of course we all know what happens from there, and we can probably assume that Link's adventures in Termina took him at least a few years to return from, ending up in the same future he left seven years earlier. Of course that's only one explination for it, but you can chew on it for awhile and see if you can find any flaws.

Not sure if i explained all of that right, but at least i got in my two cents...

 

[Dark Young Link]

OMG both of you are going to make me go insane!! Completely insane! Why, oh why do you have to hit on SO MANY topics at once!! Ugh I have got a full plate here. This is going to be one long post…

First, Firaga:

Who said that MM took place when Link was 10? Last time I checked, Link was 12 when he started OOT!

Well, if he was 12, then that would have made Adult Link 19, but we know he is 17 because it says so… somewhere. Which means… seven years before that… Link was 10.

OOT never really existed; when Zelda sent Link back into the past to relive his childhood, Ganondorf could never have destroyed Hyrule because Link never opened the entrance to the Golden land.

You are assuming Link was sent back to before he lifted the Master Sword and Ganon entered the Golden Land. This is the basic reason for the Dual Timeline theory. Like I said above, it works out just fine if Link was sent back right AFTER he drew the sword from it’s stone. Then OoT can happen like it’s supposed to, and Link can also live his life like he was supposed to.

OOT was later considered, well, a legend.

How could other Zelda games have so many connections with a piece of history that never happened? The Imprisoning War links LttP directly to the events of OoT and all of the Wind Waker depends on OoT. I just don’t see how you can say this.

Now, for the rAt’s really, really long post…

since time travel is only theoretical, it's all guess work, but nearly everything i've ever heard of timetravel, if a result is prevented, it doesn't stop cease to exist, it merely continues on separetly, like a fork in a river.

I hate time travel paradoxes… If Zelda sent Link back and he stopped OoT from happening, then Zelda wouldn’t have been in a situation to send him back, so he wouldn’t have gone back. But then OoT did happen, so she did send him back… See my point? I hate time travel paradoxes. But it’s my opinion that Zelda does not prevent OoT from happening because she sent Link back after he already drew the sword out, so Link has not changed anything. The only thing that happens is there are now two Links, one sleeping and one about to meet Skull Kid.

It is all made under the assumption that Link is sent back to the EXACT moment he left. Who's to say that? It could be possible that he was sent back to a few moments afterwards.

this is EXACTLY what I said a few posts up, and this is my explanation of how the single timeline can work just fine.

I'll use an example of what i mean; DBZ Trunks saga. Trunks comes from the future to warn Z-Fighters of disaster. Disaster is prevented (sorta). Trunks future doesn't change, because it's already happend to him, but the Z-Fighters' future changes because they prevented certain things from happening. At this point they become two alternate timelines.

Please don’t use DBZ…. It gets too confusing for me….

meaning that Zelda must have sent him to moments after Gannondorf obtained the triforce.

Also, exactly what I said a few posts up. I am glad we are coming to the same conclusions here.

i seem to remember Link being 10 in OoT, but i also seem to remember him being 12 in MM, so two years would probably have passed, giving him time to obtain young epona, which he did not have during OoT

This sounds fine to me, except now I see a possible major flaw in the story of MM… if Link took Epona… Then how does Adult Link have her in OoT? Shouldn’t she still be in Termina? I guess Link could have returned her to the ranch before Adult Link went for her… This could also explain why she likes Link so much! Oh I love it! I’ve got a new theory… Wow.

Okay, After Link is sent back in time, Navi leaves. Link wants her to be his fairy, so he goes to look for her. He hears rumor that she has gone deep into the forest. Link needs a ride. He remembers the horses in Lon Lon Ranch. Link sneaks in after dark one day and steals Epona. He goes in search for Navi and ends up being the victim of Skull Kid’s prank. He spends the next couple of weeks or so in Termina (retracting my former statement about him spending years there). He saves Epona, and she realizes this and they both return to Hyrule. Malon, Talon and Ingo have just about given up hope of finding their lost horse, when Link returns her just a quietly as he had taken her. The crew of Lon Lon is baffled by her mysterious return, but shrugs it off because they are just glad to have their horse back and eventually forget the whole thing. Young Link spends the rest of his life in the forest or somewhere away from Hyrule. But Adult Link awakens in seven years and heads back to Lon Lon Ranch where Epona is now their favorite horse. Epona recognizes Link and loves him dearly for saving her so long ago and she is quite happy to do as he says. Link wins her for himself because Ingo didn’t know that she would obey him.

I know it kind of ruins the other thing about him staying in Termina for five years, but I like this story better… It makes things fit together right.

When you two return, I’d like to know, because it’s not clear by yours posts, do the both of you believe in the dual timeline, or the single?

 

[The rAt]

First off, DYL, i don't see where you're getting this deal involving Adult Link and Epona. Adult Link's involvement comes BEFORE his involvement in MM, so he wouldn't recognize Epona other than his casual encounter w/ her as a child, before he became an adult. I think it is more the reverse; when Link needs a horse, he remembers using Epona as an adult and desides to use her now. I think it is not very likely that Link actually returns to Hyrule. I mean, it seems more likely that at some point they are separated again. Now, if they are separated, where would Epona logically go? She would wander until she found her home at Lon Lon Ranch. I Mean she has at least five years to find Hyrule. It seems to me that Link would not have returned until AFTER his previous involvement with the events, because had he, he would have naturally wanted to become involved in what was happening.
As far as timelines go, I've said it once and i'll say it again; There are flaws in both timeline theories. However the flaws in the multiple timeline theory are far tougher to explain than those with the single timeline theory. So i guess right now, unless i see some overwhelming evidence otherwise, i agree with the single timeline theory
Thats all i got for two cents...

P.S. Firaga, i think DYL is on to our plot to drive him insane

 

[SonicX]

Zelda the WW

What i don't get in the WW is why Ganondorf is turn into stone in the end and link just leaves the master sword in him.how does does that end him and some how he keeps coming back

 

[Raccoon87]

Two Reasons:
1. The Master Sword seals Ganondorf's power. If Link took the Master Sword back out of Ganondorf, Ganondorf would still be alive.
2. There wasn't any time. The Great Sea was flooding in, and soon after the battle, Link and Zelda get transported in bubbles.

 

[Metroid Killer]

Try to look at it like this:

You have just turned the greatest villain of all time into stone... you have no idea how to break the stone into dust... no spells to help you. Sure the Master Sword is cool but would you risk removing it from the stone and might ruin the only chance of stopping Ganondorf.

Perhaps Silver Arrows are the weapons that can kill Ganondorf, but there are no Silver Arrows until many many years after the first time Ganon appeared. So the "Good/Links" chose to seal him away everytime until they would find the final weapon that would be lethal to Ganon.