Social Zelda Social - Still the queen of Smash...and maybe queen of low tier for a decade, too. Shall we make it two?

[L2 Sentinel]

I'm going to miss TP Zelda. I was really hoping she'd be a costume choice like with Ike. But ALttP is still a nice design. I can live with it.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

I'm going to miss TP Zelda. I was really hoping she'd be a costume choice like with Ike. But ALttP is still a nice design. I can live with it.

Seeing twilight princess with these new cheery animations would be really jarring though, I'm just glad they kept the tp colour palette at least, brunette zelda is best zelda. Same reason hilda as an alt would be weird now that I think about it.

I would've liked a proper alt for this dress though

 

[Kyle B]

I'm still waiting for a Hyrule Warriors costume
such a good design...
The color variations I like would have to be:
White dress, Blue dress, and TP coloration. I would only pick red if it had a nice Crimson tone (which it probably won't have), if it does then it's even with Blue. I'm not a fan of the Black one this time around though

 

[L2 Sentinel]

Seeing twilight princess with these new cheery animations would be really jarring though, I'm just glad they kept the tp colour palette at least, brunette zelda is best zelda. Same reason hilda as an alt would be weird now that I think about it.

You're absolutely right on all three counts. As much as I love TP Zelda, I don't think these animations would suit her. But I definitely intend to use the TP palette. Pink dresses with blonde hair just seems too childish for Zelda, imo. I like her more when she's regal and elegant, which is what I love about TP Zelda.

Though, I have to admit, the cape in her Ultimate design is working for me. She looks less like a sorceress and more like a magician, if that makes any sense. She may not be as graceful as TP Zelda, but she does look more nimble, which really goes well with her new animations and speed buffs. Also, that blue dress would have been a nice alternate costume. Maybe there is still a chance they'll add it in.

 

[「 Derk 」]

I'm finding myself leaning towards the Red Zelda so far. I like the strawberry blond haircolor and the red+purple color scheme. I'll probably use that one since most people will probably be using the black and purple one. I'm a sucker for black and purple though so I'll probably end up using that one a lot myself lol

 

[otheusrex]

Dibs on white (maybe green)

 

[CodeBlue_]

As for alts I'm just going with Blue since it fits my tag.

Sky Blue Palutena and Zelda look pretty awesome~

 

[otheusrex]

I'm pretty concerned that for Zelda, upthrow/dthrow>nair is going to be her only combo. lol

https://gfycat.com/CarelessEntireGilamonster

Since people started posting on twitter the example of the first fsmash fail, I thought I'd upload another example I saw in recent footage in case they wanted

 

[KlicKlac]

Well, even in smash 4, there are times when they can fall out of fsmash. Especially if you clip them while they are in the air. They can bounce out .

 

[Dee-SmashinBoss]

Is there a Zelda discord I can join please?

 

[Luminario]

Ah yes, the true Zelda playstyle; rush in with dash attack and grab, and land on opponents with her very safe aerials.
Marth's looking fast as **** though, that's gonna be annoying.

 

[otheusrex]

Ah yes, the true Zelda playstyle; rush in with dash attack and grab, and land on opponents with her very safe aerials.
Marth's looking fast as **** though, that's gonna be annoying.

To be fair, i'm not sure what aerials she has that are safe.

 

[Luminario]

To be fair, i'm not sure what aerials she has that are safe.

I don't think she has any that can safely be used while landing on someone. Nair didn't look like it had too much landing lag but against characters like Marth I think we're gonna want to land on the other side of the stage as far away as possible.

 

[Merfect]

The thing is, now we have the option to use jab and tilts out of the running animation now. I wonder how safe those options will be on shield. Oooo, we can now turn around and immediately attack out of a dash too, maybe the back hit of Utilt could be safe on block. Zelda seems to be able to act out of it pretty quickly.

 

[CodeBlue_]

Ah yes, the true Zelda playstyle; rush in with dash attack and grab, and land on opponents with her very safe aerials.
Marth's looking fast as **** though, that's gonna be annoying.

Xzax is a Fox main and NorCal is notorious for very aggro play (he has been in the region for a while), I'm not surprised he is doing that lol.

He played Zelda a little during Smash 4 but I don't think he knew how potent down B is. I saw him use it once in the match but then he went back to Nayru's Love mix ups and dash grabs.

But yeah Marth might be close to Brawl levels of good considering the universal changes in landing lag . Hopefully Zelda can handle disjoints in this game :/

 

[otheusrex]

Man, I was looking forward to watching this video so I saved it til later... What a bummer! The zelda main could always be better, but I don't think they were all that bad either.

What I find most ironic in this video is that the commentator says something like "Zelda, of course, has a very good punish game once she gets started." This is especially ironic because this video inspired me, as I noticed a lot of bad interactions, to make a bunch of gyfs illustrating how the design team will need to give her a bit more care before she'll be a battle ready character in Ultimate. Here are my observations:

https://gfycat.com/CavernousUnacceptableFruitbat
^This more than anything made me want to make this video. I'm guessing her throws are intended to be the most gauranteed combo starters she has. I've seen many dthrows and fthrows at higher percents (where there's more hitstun) and opponents always seem to be able to escape before she can followup. Here, marth's at 0% so he's the most within her reach that he can be, and she can't combo him because the hitstun is too low.

https://gfycat.com/ImperturbableGreenFly
^just sort of wondering what you guys think this is. I'm sure there's no real use to it. I'm guessing it's what's been dubbed the 'sparkle hit' of her upair, a gfx that was triggered by starting upair, but not canceled with the rest of the move when she lands. In some games, this still had a hitbox and autocanceled. Do you think this will be a thing??

https://gfycat.com/LightHardAnglerfish
https://gfycat.com/RequiredGracefulAcornwoodpecker
https://gfycat.com/DopeySafeFieldspaniel
https://gfycat.com/DirtyPopularArchaeocete
^these all showcase her using nair as a landing attack, with unfortunately, inconsistent results. I'm singling out so many nairs because this person used them a lot, however, from my observations of her other aerials, I'm lead to believe that her nair has the least landing lag and is most likely to foster combo followups of her aerials. So, her nair is definitely worth scrutinizing, especially if we expect (and I think we should demand) her to at least have one aerial to ground conversion attack. The fact that nair is a multihit with a bunch of weak linking hits, and a single final strong hit makes getting a consistent launch depend on very finicky timing. This isn't reassuring to begin with, but the gyfs also show that even when she does land that final hit before landing, she can't expect a consistent followup from this.

https://gfycat.com/CourteousLegitimateBluet
^another nair example, this time, definitely a mistake from the zelda player. I'm showing this because it showcases well the amount of landing lag she has on it, and therefore the relative safety of the move. Honestly, to my eyes it looks like a reasonable amount of lag and she only got punished because the marth was preparing to attack her landing anyways, but contrast this gyf with wolf's apparent land-canceling aerial:
https://gfycat.com/TemptingAcclaimedChrysomelid
-and we see that shortening her landing lag on nair so that she could have shielded the marth dair is at least in the realm of possibility for what the designers want for characters... certain characters at the least.

These are most of the gyfs I felt invited speculation and discussion. To conclude, I'm getting the sense that the global environment changes towards a faster paced game is an excuse to advertise that Zelda's fighting capability has specifically been improved, when her capability has only been improved in so far as everyone's has. Fighting capability improvement is not the same as her relative viability, and the two biggest improvements to her that I can think of, (her increased aerial mobility and her faster, more optioned jab) are balanced by the new defensive mechanic (parries, whose timings seem pretty lenient on multihits:
https://gfycat.com/MisguidedNeatLeafcutterant
https://gfycat.com/FlusteredLikelyFlamingo
^both opponents were able to parry multihit attacks at different times of the multihit cycles)
... and balanced by the fact that most of the cast has high airspeed now, with easy to use hitboxes, that have low landing lag leading to combos.

If we were to provide feedback towards improving Zelda before release, I'd suggest not getting bogged down in the things like multihits not always linking (but by all means, ask for fixes here) and instead focus on asking that she has a consistent punish game with some combo variety, instead of just stray hits and a few set ups.

To end on a positive note, and still on theme with followups, I'm predicting that her problem (with high knockback physics and improved but still lacking in the mobility to capitalize on followups) is intended to be overcome by making teleport followups a central part of her gameplan.
https://gfycat.com/SarcasticLegalHoatzin
^not sure, but maybe xzax could have punished marth's AD away with a teleport, although i think i would have taken a read. What do you guys think?

Also, has anyone managed to time how many frames her teleport is now? People've been saying it's faster, but I don't know if that's true or not

 

[Alacion]

https://twitter.com/viniciuskps/status/1007006745108066304?s=07

May as well extend this to Melee and especially my Brawl peeps.

 

[Luminario]

https://gfycat.com/ImperturbableGreenFly
^just sort of wondering what you guys think this is. I'm sure there's no real use to it. I'm guessing it's what's been dubbed the 'sparkle hit' of her upair, a gfx that was triggered by starting upair, but not canceled with the rest of the move when she lands. In some games, this still had a hitbox and autocanceled. Do you think this will be a thing??

The flash of light above her? That's just an item spawning.
I hate that we can't tell if she's going to be viable this time around. No gameplay of her really uses all her tools and with the mechanical changes of the game it's going to take us actually picking the game up to tell if she's got what she needs to pull through or if she's just a fast version of a slow character in an even faster game.

 

[「 Derk 」]

She will be the best she has ever been and that's something to look forward to. I think she has all the tools to be a viable for sure this time around but she will require a different play style compared to the rest of the cast. As far as how viable that's more dependent on the players and how creative we get with all her new tools. Sakurai gave us everything we asked for and more so it's on us at this point.

From what I have seen so far, based more so on watching Zelda and her individual adjustments and not the matches themselves... Because the players are not using her full toolkit and are choosing to play very aggressive. She is pretty solid this time around. It's easy to watch the players playing Zelda and just call her bad again because of how she is being played. Nobody is really incorporating the phantom and they are rushing in. May as well be playing Diddy Kong without bananas. The same thing can be said for characters like Pokemon Trainer that didn't get a great showing at E3 but have a lot of great options. Intangible frames on switching and 3 different fighters to change match ups for example. Not calling any of players bad because they are all there for a reason, but it's a new game with new mechanics and new options for characters. You can't expect them to know how to use them immediately. Especially for Zelda because she is so underplayed lol.

I would put her around mid tier at least. She could be higher, but I don't see her being lower than mid tier. She will take a lot of effort to play compared to easy mode characters like Mario but she definitely has room to climb the ranks this time. She has some cool mix up potential and she still has the few good things from smash 4 like elevator combos and Nayru's Love is still really good at getting people off her. Zelda received so many buffs across the board and I can't wait to try her out.

 

[TheFacelessOne]

https://twitter.com/TheReflexWonder/status/1007826943994101760

So while browsing through twitter I stumbled onto this thread. (you might want to click on it). Given the topic at hand and Zelda's defensive playstyle, the new powershield, if pulled off, can help deter those who get into her zone from doing the same option twice. While it's risky I feel like it might be an overlooked new tool in her kit.

Just a thought I wanted to put out there while thinking about the new power shield mechanic. How good would it be to pull off a power shield and immediately follow up with a sweet spot lightning kick?

 

[Deleted member]

Us Zelda mains just have to accept we're playing a lowtier no matter what cause it's a design concept that's flawed here, but maybe she'll be a slight bit better this time.

 

[Rickster]

A friend of mine made this for me upon request

Spoiler

I have no regrets.

 

[GreyFox86]

This is neat! I agree with this!

 

[Katy Parry]

Man, I was looking forward to watching this video so I saved it til later... What a bummer! The zelda main could always be better, but I don't think they were all that bad either.

What I find most ironic in this video is that the commentator says something like "Zelda, of course, has a very good punish game once she gets started." This is especially ironic because this video inspired me, as I noticed a lot of bad interactions, to make a bunch of gyfs illustrating how the design team will need to give her a bit more care before she'll be a battle ready character in Ultimate. Here are my observations:

https://gfycat.com/CavernousUnacceptableFruitbat
^This more than anything made me want to make this video. I'm guessing her throws are intended to be the most gauranteed combo starters she has. I've seen many dthrows and fthrows at higher percents (where there's more hitstun) and opponents always seem to be able to escape before she can followup. Here, marth's at 0% so he's the most within her reach that he can be, and she can't combo him because the hitstun is too low.

https://gfycat.com/ImperturbableGreenFly
^just sort of wondering what you guys think this is. I'm sure there's no real use to it. I'm guessing it's what's been dubbed the 'sparkle hit' of her upair, a gfx that was triggered by starting upair, but not canceled with the rest of the move when she lands. In some games, this still had a hitbox and autocanceled. Do you think this will be a thing??

https://gfycat.com/LightHardAnglerfish
https://gfycat.com/RequiredGracefulAcornwoodpecker
https://gfycat.com/DopeySafeFieldspaniel
https://gfycat.com/DirtyPopularArchaeocete
^these all showcase her using nair as a landing attack, with unfortunately, inconsistent results. I'm singling out so many nairs because this person used them a lot, however, from my observations of her other aerials, I'm lead to believe that her nair has the least landing lag and is most likely to foster combo followups of her aerials. So, her nair is definitely worth scrutinizing, especially if we expect (and I think we should demand) her to at least have one aerial to ground conversion attack. The fact that nair is a multihit with a bunch of weak linking hits, and a single final strong hit makes getting a consistent launch depend on very finicky timing. This isn't reassuring to begin with, but the gyfs also show that even when she does land that final hit before landing, she can't expect a consistent followup from this.

https://gfycat.com/CourteousLegitimateBluet
^another nair example, this time, definitely a mistake from the zelda player. I'm showing this because it showcases well the amount of landing lag she has on it, and therefore the relative safety of the move. Honestly, to my eyes it looks like a reasonable amount of lag and she only got punished because the marth was preparing to attack her landing anyways, but contrast this gyf with wolf's apparent land-canceling aerial:
https://gfycat.com/TemptingAcclaimedChrysomelid
-and we see that shortening her landing lag on nair so that she could have shielded the marth dair is at least in the realm of possibility for what the designers want for characters... certain characters at the least.

These are most of the gyfs I felt invited speculation and discussion. To conclude, I'm getting the sense that the global environment changes towards a faster paced game is an excuse to advertise that Zelda's fighting capability has specifically been improved, when her capability has only been improved in so far as everyone's has. Fighting capability improvement is not the same as her relative viability, and the two biggest improvements to her that I can think of, (her increased aerial mobility and her faster, more optioned jab) are balanced by the new defensive mechanic (parries, whose timings seem pretty lenient on multihits:
https://gfycat.com/MisguidedNeatLeafcutterant
https://gfycat.com/FlusteredLikelyFlamingo
^both opponents were able to parry multihit attacks at different times of the multihit cycles)
... and balanced by the fact that most of the cast has high airspeed now, with easy to use hitboxes, that have low landing lag leading to combos.

If we were to provide feedback towards improving Zelda before release, I'd suggest not getting bogged down in the things like multihits not always linking (but by all means, ask for fixes here) and instead focus on asking that she has a consistent punish game with some combo variety, instead of just stray hits and a few set ups.

To end on a positive note, and still on theme with followups, I'm predicting that her problem (with high knockback physics and improved but still lacking in the mobility to capitalize on followups) is intended to be overcome by making teleport followups a central part of her gameplan.
https://gfycat.com/SarcasticLegalHoatzin
^not sure, but maybe xzax could have punished marth's AD away with a teleport, although i think i would have taken a read. What do you guys think?

Also, has anyone managed to time how many frames her teleport is now? People've been saying it's faster, but I don't know if that's true or not

Girl. Caaaaaalllllm. Down. Marth got out of that because hitstun launches you faster now. It wasnt the throw, she used the wrong throw at the wrong percent, and placed Marth in a spot where he could punish her. If she had up thrown, or back thrown, shed. Have better options. Different game. She’ll have different combos Now. She can combo at 0 percent with UPTHROW now, Not downthrow. New. Game.

That sparkle effect is an ITEM SPAWNING. LOL JESUS i cant take the rest of what you’ve typed seriously if you are missing the finer details. So I only read your first two points. You’re comparing her to old Zelda way too much. And I’m not being rude for telling you like it is, so I just want to make sure that point come across. you have literally no idea what you’re worried about.

Nothing personal, but leave it to the pros to check her data. And no, I don’t mean me.

tske this point you made. She can’t follow up right?

https://gfycat.com/DopeySafeFieldspaniel
Wrong. She could have grabbed him for FREE, set up a phantom, etc. these players have NO IDEA what to use as a follow up.

Xzax is a Fox main and NorCal is notorious for very aggro play (he has been in the region for a while), I'm not surprised he is doing that lol.

He played Zelda a little during Smash 4 but I don't think he knew how potent down B is. I saw him use it once in the match but then he went back to Nayru's Love mix ups and dash grabs.

But yeah Marth might be close to Brawl levels of good considering the universal changes in landing lag . Hopefully Zelda can handle disjoints in this game :/

She has longer range than Marth. It’s all about out spacing them. That’s why her smashmissed too. She used it when another attack covers more, like downsmash or ftilt now. We have to stop instinctively fsmashing and use it a confirm, not a throw out of neutral.

 

[otheusrex]

Girl. Caaaaaalllllm. Down. Marth got out of that because hitstun launches you faster now. It wasnt the throw, she used the wrong throw at the wrong percent, and placed Marth in a spot where he could punish her. If she had up thrown, or back thrown, shed. Have better options. Different game. She’ll have different combos Now. She can combo at 0 percent with UPTHROW now, Not downthrow. New. Game.

That sparkle effect is an ITEM SPAWNING. LOL JESUS i cant take the rest of what you’ve typed seriously if you are missing the finer details. So I only read your first two points. You’re comparing her to old Zelda way too much. And I’m not being rude for telling you like it is, so I just want to make sure that point come across. you have literally no idea what you’re worried about.

Nothing personal, but leave it to the pros to check her data. And no, I don’t mean me.

tske this point you made. She can’t follow up right?

https://gfycat.com/DopeySafeFieldspaniel
Wrong. She could have grabbed him for FREE, set up a phantom, etc. these players have NO IDEA what to use as a follow up.


She has longer range than Marth. It’s all about out spacing them. That’s why her smashmissed too. She used it when another attack covers more, like downsmash or ftilt now. We have to stop instinctively fsmashing and use it a confirm, not a throw out of neutral.

I appreciate the points you made, and I was (am) inviting everyone to comment, correct, speculate, ect... just don't be a jerk about it. The Zelda smashboards in particular has always been extremely civil and friendly about discussion compared to most forums. I'd hate to lose that.

 

[MattX20]

I think it's safe to say Hilda will be an echo fighter for Zelda. When you compare the alternate colors of Zelda to the official artwork for Hilda, it's fairly evident none of them match.

 

[McKnightlíght]

I appreciate the points you made, and I was (am) inviting everyone to comment, correct, speculate, ect... just don't be a jerk about it. The Zelda smashboards in particular has always been extremely civil and friendly about discussion compared to most forums. I'd hate to lose that.

What Zelda Smashboards yew been at heaux bag?

 

[Ffamran]

I think it's safe to say Hilda will be an echo fighter for Zelda. When you compare the alternate colors of Zelda to the official artwork for Hilda, it's fairly evident none of them match.

If they do add in Hilda, then I hope she isn't an echo fighter. Of the weapon users, we only have one polearm user, Palutena, one whip user, ZSS, and one, sort of two hammer user, Triple D and Kirby for his Side Special. Nobody uses axes, nobody uses spears, nobody uses stuff like chakrams, nunchaku, or flails, nobody even uses daggers. It's mostly swords and more swords.

I'd prefer it if Hilda ended up like Dr. Mario or Ultimate Ganondorf. Some of her normals using her staff would make it more interesting even if they have to straight-up copy Palutena's moves like Ftilt and Nair.

 

[otheusrex]

I think it's safe to say Hilda will be an echo fighter for Zelda. When you compare the alternate colors of Zelda to the official artwork for Hilda, it's fairly evident none of them match.

I agree. Their dresses and everything are really similar so that makes an echo fighter easy. But hilde has purple hair and red eyes

 

[BJN39]

She has longer range than Marth.

People are still saying this

It’s literally never been true. Once. I have had to shut this idea down so many times in SSB4, and rightfully otheus made comparison to SSB4 Zelda because outside of phantom, yes, a lot looks very similar. Things like new magic ribbons and clipping outstretched limbs can easily fool us into thinking Usmash had a “MAJOR range increase,” and a bunch of landed LKs on film and we wanna believe LKs finally got addressed, but we can confirm almost none of it. Damage is doing....something in that demo and we can’t accurately track damage, but Zelda’s moves have appeared the same. They just do, having watched them a hundred times before and now for research.

Din’s fire no freefall is blessT, LONG OVERDUE for a hilariously bad stats projectile, and cool to see for real, but in literally seconds a good player invalided any recovery use by simply jumping out and killing Zelda. Yes, edgeguards are where it’ll theoretically shine, but we will have to deal with what looks mostly like SSB4’s explosions size (thus likely the puny hitbox...) and travel angle. (Which couldn’t go low enough to cover a low recovery.

Farore’s drift is also long overdue, but otherwise the move is exactly the same nothing to say here because the only major problem I felt Zelda players couldn’t overcome was fixed, but one qol a good char does not make. Two qol’s either if we’re talking about din’s.

Like, I’m also a big fan of phantom, and think this is where her biggest potential to improve could come, but it’s one move being truly revamped on an entire moveset of poor designs that Zelda has. Plus the possible placebo that she has better run speed.

What Zelda Smashboards yew been at heaux bag?

Pray the right one hunTy don’t attack good sis otheusrex like that :V

 

[.Shìkì]

If they do add in Hilda, then I hope she isn't an echo fighter. Of the weapon users, we only have one polearm user, Palutena, one whip user, ZSS, and one, sort of two hammer user, Triple D and Kirby for his Side Special. Nobody uses axes, nobody uses spears, nobody uses stuff like chakrams, nunchaku, or flails, nobody even uses daggers. It's mostly swords and more swords.

I'd prefer it if Hilda ended up like Dr. Mario or Ultimate Ganondorf. Some of her normals using her staff would make it more interesting even if they have to straight-up copy Palutena's moves like Ftilt and Nair.

Did you just casually ignore the Ice Climbers has hammer users? X) And yeah a semi-cone would be best.

 

[Berserker.]

i dunno if this will end up becoming the social thread but if it does, expect some stupid ****. especially with reserved (aka: Aunt Jemima ). that guy is pretty crazy so i'd watch out for him if i were u guys :U

 

[DefinitelyNotSascha]

I think I might just pick up Zelda simply because she is so damn adorable in this game. I've always liked magic-users anyway.

 

[otheusrex]

I'd prefer it if Hilda ended up like Dr. Mario or Ultimate Ganondorf. Some of her normals using her staff would make it more interesting even if they have to straight-up copy Palutena's moves like Ftilt and Nair.

Now that you mention it, I think Hilda with her staff might make a better Echo fighter of Palutena

 

[BJN39]

I sure hope they make hilda an echo of Palutena if they really do add hilda.

Imagine the gag if they decided we should have two of Zelda of all characters

 

[「 Derk 」]

BAN HILDA 2018

 

[MattX20]

The only problem with the whole staff user thing is that Hilda isn't shown flying or doing homing projectile magic attacks.

 

[BJN39]

BAN HILDA 2018

Excuse yew


It’s BAN•HILDA

 

[Freelance Spy]

Alright so, I've been debating on how good we looking for a while. I think the best thing we've got is ground game. Our up, down, and ftilt all being usable on a cancelled dash is insane. Our Dsmash could be amazing especially if it has low recovery like brawl (but better). Rapid jab out of dash looks real.

Another thing I noticed was that Nair is safe on powershield. (this was a vgbootcamp match iirc) the potential is real. The phantom is real (low dfamage but the trap game has potential.).

It's still early, but I think we finally have a usable character. Global buffs *should* help us out much more than other characters.

Out of everything I've seen, I'm only worried about our multihit problem. I'm gonna be afraid to Fsmash again for sure.

 

[Katy Parry]

People are still saying this

It’s literally never been true. Once. I have had to shut this idea down so many times in SSB4, and rightfully otheus made comparison to SSB4 Zelda because outside of phantom, yes, a lot looks very similar. Things like new magic ribbons and clipping outstretched limbs can easily fool us into thinking Usmash had a “MAJOR range increase,” and a bunch of landed LKs on film and we wanna believe LKs finally got addressed, but we can confirm almost none of it. Damage is doing....something in that demo and we can’t accurately track damage, but Zelda’s moves have appeared the same. They just do, having watched them a hundred times before and now for research.

Din’s fire no freefall is blessT, LONG OVERDUE for a hilariously bad stats projectile, and cool to see for real, but in literally seconds a good player invalided any recovery use by simply jumping out and killing Zelda. Yes, edgeguards are where it’ll theoretically shine, but we will have to deal with what looks mostly like SSB4’s explosions size (thus likely the puny hitbox...) and travel angle. (Which couldn’t go low enough to cover a low recovery.

Farore’s drift is also long overdue, but otherwise the move is exactly the same nothing to say here because the only major problem I felt Zelda players couldn’t overcome was fixed, but one qol a good char does not make. Two qol’s either if we’re talking about din’s.

Like, I’m also a big fan of phantom, and think this is where her biggest potential to improve could come, but it’s one move being truly revamped on an entire moveset of poor designs that Zelda has. Plus the possible placebo that she has better run speed.




Pray the right one hunTy don’t attack good sis otheusrex like that :V

First off. You’re wrong by saying it’s “never” been true. The first tier list had Zelda above Marth. So yes, at ONE time, it was true. It was what they community, myself included, agreed with. It was Marthas data that later moved him over Zelda. That’s it.

Also, there’s weird **** about Zelda, in Melee. Like this, from insaneclownguy, known as problem a Pichu second to Mew2King.

“Zelda has feet but no shoes or fingers so small wins

But peach, falco, fox, Marth, falcon, samus and others have no feet, so when they stand on a platform it helps make some things whiff or not shield stab actually like falcon sh knee on bf”

did you guys guys know That? I certainly didn’t lol. He knows everything about Melee, swears it’s broken because Jigglypuffs back throw to back air set ups. Lol

I guess since I’m a Zelda main, I refer to Melee when I discuss Zelda. Zelda out ranges Marth but STRUGGLES to do so because of her terrible run speed, air speed. In fact, that’s why Zelda was top tier before. It was Marth that knocked her from her spot in the first couple official tier lists. Because he can outspace her OVERALL with his additional speed, dash dancing, wavedashing.

Zelda's perfect wavedash in Melee is long af. I was at a going away party last night for lanceinthepants, an incredible falco and Rik, one of the best spacie mains in the Midwest. I actually won most of my matches, or got down to last stock by focusing on her strengths and nothing else: perfect wavelands for optimal spacing retreating spacing with Zelda, getting her perfect wavedashes, dash dancing for tech reads, etc. problem is she cannot APPROACH, so if anyone strays from an aggressive play style with her, they lose. so in the neutral? Yeah, Marth still out ranges her. It’s how we as Zelda players punish and outspace, and Zelda has more consistent range than Marth with bair. it literally puts a hit box out farther horizontally than Martha nair, which is his longest move. fair yes, but he can’t win against her fair with fair unless he outspace her, but It’s also Marths hurtbox being disconnected is the real “reason” she loses. but she is not Marth, so that’s why he “out spaces her”. Imagine if Zelda had his run speed and air speed, who would out range who then? Still Marth in the neutral.

Have Comos, a Melee Zelda player who quit the game because it was boring to him, play any good Marth, and I bet he will out space the Marth every time. Yes, skill level is a hard factor to judge I know. But Zelda’s fair and bair out range Marth, she doesn’t have good data to capitalize on it, let alone a consistent hit box to work with.

I truly get get the feeling I’m the disliked Zelda here and that’s fine. I play Melee Zelda so I just have a different mind set. Because frankly, cockiness aside, I’m the best Melee Zelda in Indiana and I have top players that will back that up. Not flashing my skill, i just want you guys to understand I’m not just spewing out nonsense. My opinions and ideas do come from a place of learning.