Guide Zelda Social: But also the FE Heroes Internet Cafe

[CatRaccoonBL]

How are you guys with dittos. Like... what do you think about Mario dittos if you main Mario?

For me, I hate Shulk dittos. It's like there's a mini-game of rock-paper-scissors while you're fighting

Late, but I love fighting other Rosalina's. Really is able to test my skills on spacing and mind games. I can also test my gimping abilities.

The only thing I don't like about it, is that I can easily show myself is incompetent by messing up her recovery. >.>

 

[Macchiato]

I sent him a message with the link, to let him know.

Edit: why are customs on though It's the Zelda Social tournament and you're sealing our Queen's fate to lose lol

Zeldas customs are great. I think her customs are good.

 

[WolfieXVII ❂]

Can't wait for the patch
No more Diddy, Luigi, Luma, Sonic and Greninja (obv) cheese
Hopefullyyyyy

 

[Lavani]

Luigi ain't gettin touched gorl

I've got a bad feeling Rosalina and Greninja are gonna get bopped again though

 

[Trieste SP]

Zeldas customs are great. I think her customs are good.

Zeldas custom moves are weird, but it does help her out in certain matchups.

 

[CatRaccoonBL]

Luigi ain't gettin touched gorl

I've got a bad feeling Rosalina and Greninja are gonna get bopped again though

I know Rosalina is going to be nerfed. I just hope Sakurai is smart about it and give her some buffs to compensate.

I will say, I do have to wonder if the people asking for her to be nerfed, want her to be nerfed because the think she could use it and have evidence to support it, or if they are just annoyed with her.

If it is the latter, nerfing her won't solve her being "annoying." She will probably be the same character still. Unless he nerfs her to oblivion, in which case while some people will be happy she isn't common anymore, a lot of other people will be mad their favorite character isn't useable.

 

[Tilk]

hi im gonna post something
watch as i get likes

Totally worked dude.

 

[Soul.]

Can't wait for the patch
No more Diddy, Luigi, Luma, Sonic and Greninja (obv) cheese
Hopefullyyyyy

what's wrong with Luigi again. I know his dthrow combos are stupid, but at the same time I don't want him to be mediocre.
also can't wait for general fixes for an overall enjoyable experience

 

[WolfieXVII ❂]

I know Rosalina is going to be nerfed. I just hope Sakurai is smart about it and give her some buffs to compensate.

I will say, I do have to wonder if the people asking for her to be nerfed, want her to be nerfed because the think she could use it and have evidence to support it, or if they are just annoyed with her.

If it is the latter, nerfing her won't solve her being "annoying." She will probably be the same character still. Unless he nerfs her to oblivion, in which case while some people will be happy she isn't common anymore, a lot of other people will be mad their favorite character isn't useable.

wat
While we're nerfing her, let's give her some buffs to compensate for the nerfs we just gave her. That makes sense

 

[Princess Toady]

I hope they don't nerf Rosalina. As much as I hate the character, I find her cool to play as, and even funnier to play against. I've never had much trouble against her easy... Maybe because I don't feel like Peach and Zelda have a matchup disavantage against her.

 

[WolfieXVII ❂]

what's wrong with Luigi again. I know his dthrow combos are stupid, but at the same time I don't want him to be mediocre.
also can't wait for general fixes for an overall enjoyable experience

A character that is able to give you 30% per grab shouldn't exist lmao
Other chars have to work for damage rack. Just a little lag on aerials would be nice
But what do I know

 

[Lorde]

I do believe that Sakurai knows how to correctly nerf characters without destroying them. He nerfed Rosalina to hell and back in 1.0.4, but she's still a top tier contender. He knows that she has some very exploitable flaws (very tall, extremely light, relatively slow), so she relys on Luma to be a viable character. I'm sure that Sakurai knows that and that if he does nerf Rosalina again, he'll do it without ruining her.

As for Greninja, I think the only thing he'll do is take out running Shadow Sneak since it was already removed from the 3DS version.

 

[Soul.]

Don't nerf Pikachu pls. Nerf DIddy and Sheik so people stop saying ****; nerf Sonic (being honest), and yeah.
I hope they buff characters like Robin though. Or Kirby. Or Marcina. Or Dong. Or Dedede

A character that is able to give you 30% per grab shouldn't exist lmao
Other chars have to work for damage rack. Just a little lag on aerials would be nice
But what do I know

Slight damage nerfs could work.

 

[Macchiato]

I sent him a message with the link, to let him know.

Edit: why are customs on though It's the Zelda Social tournament and you're sealing our Queen's fate to lose lol

Zeldas custom moves are weird, but it does help her out in certain matchups.

https://youtu.be/ssos9aF1pOU

 

[|ven|]

I do believe that Sakurai knows how to correctly nerf characters without destroying them. He nerfed Rosalina to hell and back in 1.0.4, but she's still a top tier contender. He knows that she has some very exploitable flaws (very tall, extremely light, relatively slow), so she relys on Luma to be a viable character. I'm sure that Sakurai knows that and that if he does nerf Rosalina again, he'll do it without ruining her.

As for Greninja, I think the only thing he'll do is take out running Shadow Sneak since it was already removed from the 3DS version.

inb4henerfszelda

 

[Unknownkid]

I do believe that Sakurai knows how to correctly nerf characters without destroying them. He nerfed Rosalina to hell and back in 1.0.4, but she's still a top tier contender. He knows that she has some very exploitable flaws (very tall, extremely light, relatively slow), so she relys on Luma to be a viable character. I'm sure that Sakurai knows that and that if he does nerf Rosalina again, he'll do it without ruining her.

As for Greninja, I think the only thing he'll do is take out running Shadow Sneak since it was already removed from the 3DS version.

To hell and back? What else did Sakurai nerf other than Luma's time cycle?

 

[Lavani]

wat
While we're nerfing her, let's give her some buffs to compensate for the nerfs we just gave her. That makes sense

Greninja got a 2% buff on his dsmash so Sakurai can feel obligated to nerf him as much as he wants.

I do believe that Sakurai knows how to correctly nerf characters without destroying him. He nerfed Rosalina to hell and back in 1.0.4, but she's still a top tier character. He knows that she has some very exploitable flaws (tall, extremely light, relatively slow), so she relys on Luma to be a viable character. I'm sure that Sakurai knows that and that if he does nerf Rosalina again, he'll do it without ruining her.

As for Greninja, I think the only thing he'll do is take out running Shadow Sneak since it was already removed from the 3DS version.

lol I wouldn't say she was nerfed to hell and back, she was just made reliant on Luma and losing Luma became a bigger deal

which is the way it should've been from the start

To hell and back? What else did Sakurai nerf other than Luma's time cycle?

Nair took damage, hitbox, and knockback nerfs
Usmash took hitbox and knockback nerfs
Dsmash took an end lag nerf
Fthrow took a knockback nerf
Bthrow took a knockback nerf
Dtilt takes an extra frame to start and had its hitbox nerfed

There may have been a couple other things.

 

[Tilk]

I hope they don't nerf Rosalina. As much as I hate the character, I find her cool to play as, and even funnier to play against. I've never had much trouble against her easy... Maybe because I don't feel like Peach and Zelda have a matchup disavantage against her.

Doesn't excuse the fact that good players still seem to make her somewhat unfair to play against.

I like the character and the idea, but sometimes it feels like I can just get completely zoned out by her.

Maybe I'm just butt hurt after being two stocked by one twice Ina recent tourney, but whatever. If you like RosaLuma, more power to you.

 

[Trieste SP]

https://youtu.be/ssos9aF1pOU

Thanks !

I'll try to incorporate these when I'm playing custom Zelda.

 

[Soul.]

Is Shadow Sneak hitstun canceling still in?

 

[CatRaccoonBL]

wat
While we're nerfing her, let's give her some buffs to compensate for the nerfs we just gave her. That makes sense

So you don't even give me a chance to explain myself? Alright.

Rosalina is a complicated character. She's both very fragile and very powerful as a character due to luma. The thing that needs to be understood is that nerfing something can easily be incredibly bad for Rosalina.

For example, take away her ability to defend herself that well without Luma could easily lead to her not being as viable. Especially with how easy it is to actually get rid of Luma.

When it comes down to it, Rosalina is a character that doesn't need a nerf, but a power shift. For example, there is no reason for her up air to be able to string/combo like it does. But straight up nerfing gets rid of Rosalina's power which Rosalina desperately needs. Instead, Rosalina should have more power with riskier moves like f-tilt and up-tilt. (Up-tilt being more damage). Up-tilt also needs a base Knockback nerf, (because killing at ridiculously low percentages is nuts) but it could use a knockback scaling buff (since it is hard to pull off).


F-air also needs a buff since there really isn't that much of a reason to use it at the moment and it has quite a bit of lag, while Down-air can be a little too good at times.

 

[S.F.L.R_9]

I'm confident that Sakurai will do this patch right. He does make some very questionable decisions sometimes, but he's the mastermind who made this entire series and made unique characters that we can enjoy. He must realize by now that Zelda needs help

This was a thing?

*imagines the possibilities*

Spoiler: THE POSSIBILITIES

Sorry I'm only used to Sm4sh Zelda I know nothing of past Smash incarnations of our heinie-ness.

OMG YES. They autocancelled from a short hop. THEY WERE SO BEAUTIFUL.

 

[Locke 06]

@ Lavani Can you local multiplayer 1.0.0 smash 3ds? I know you can't sign in using the network.

God frog, Rosalina Nairplane... I want it all back.

 

[Lorde]

lol I wouldn't say she was nerfed to hell and back, she was just made reliant on Luma and losing Luma became a bigger deal

which is the way it should've been from the start

Agreed.

She did get nerfed a ton (the most out of the patch, I belive?), so I'd argue that "to hell and back" was accurate.

To hell and back? What else did Sakurai nerf other than Luma's time cycle?

Lavani already answered, but here's it is again because I want to feel cool and answer this.

Spoiler: Rosalina Nerfs

ROSALINA AND LUMA
DTILT
HITS ON : 5 ⇒ 6
POSITIONING : Hitbox positions have been tweaked
FSMASH
KNOCKBACK GROWTH : 115 ⇒ 111
USMASH
KNOCKBACK GROWTH : 100 ⇒ 90
HITBOX SIZE : Very slightly reduced
DSMASH
ENDING LAG : Increased
NAIR
EARLY NAIR DAMAGE : 6% ⇒ 5%
LATE NAIR DAMAGE : 10% ⇒ 7.5%
POSITIONING : Hitbox positions have been tweaked
FAIR
(1%) BASE KNOCKBACK : 20/35 ⇒ 55
(4%) BASE KNOCKBACK : 60 ⇒ 50
LUMA SHOT
DISTANCE : Uncharged and lightly charged Luma Shot has slightly less distance
FTHROW
KNOCKBACK GROWTH : 85 ⇒ 76
BTHROW
KNOCKBACK GROWTH : 70 ⇒ 60
GRAB
ENDING LAG : Increased
LUMA MECHANICS
LUMA RESPAWN : 8.9 seconds ⇒ 12.5 seconds
UP SMASH HITBOX SIZE : 4 ⇒ 5.5
LATE UP SMASH DAMAGE : 4% ⇒ 5%
LUMA RECALL : Returns to Rosalina faster
LUMA : Cannot be controlled while being thrown or taking damage

 

[Soul.]

If they want to make this game as balanced as possible, nerf customs

 

[Trieste SP]

If they want to make this game as balanced as possible, nerf customs

I believe they've already nerfed some customs in the past.

 

[Lavani]

@ Lavani Can you local multiplayer 1.0.0 smash 3ds? I know you can't sign in using the network.

God frog, Rosalina Nairplane... I want it all back.

I don't have anyone to actually try it with, but I see no reason that you couldn't. I know local stuff is possible with unpatched gen 6 Pokemon games, at least.

She did get nerfed a ton (the most out of the patch, I belive?), so I'd argue that "to hell and back" was accurate.

I'd say Greninja got hit the hardest tbh

Not to mention while Rosalina got nerfed, Luma was mostly untouched and even buffed in the case of usmash.

I believe they've already nerfed some customs in the past.

Dragon Rush's damage was nerfed 15%>11%, yeah.

 

[CatRaccoonBL]

@ Lavani

Rosalina Nairplane... I want it all back.

As a Rosalina main, I have to disagree here. Her Nair is still pretty amazing when properly spaced, especially with Luma. She really doesn't need that power back.

Would it be fun? Sure. But it is over powered. Especially with a character that has enough power in the wrong places as is.

 

[Locuan]

All these Pikachu avatars/sigs are too kawaii.

 

[Lavani]

@ Locuan that isn't a skarmory where did your skarmory go I miss skarmory

 

[Lorde]

Up-tilt also needs a base Knockback nerf, (because killing at ridiculously low percentages is nuts) but it could use a knockback scaling buff (since it is hard to pull off). ]

This reminds me... @ Macchiato , what percent was it when I killed you really early with Luma's up tilt? I think it was when you were playing as ZSS, but it might've been Sheik. I'm pretty sure you were at like 50ish%, but I can't remember for sure. It was really funny, though. Luma with rage is terrifying. someone please post the angry luma picture tysm

 

[Locuan]

@ Locuan that isn't a skarmory where did your skarmory go I miss skarmory

Fixed it D: I messed up, I typed 223 instead of 227.

 

[Soul.]

I believe they've already nerfed some customs in the past.

They nerfed some, but some are still deemed too good. Maybe a slightly longer startup for them could work?
idk its too hard

 

[Princess Toady]

Well, I guess Rosalina is kind of unfair in the sense that she completely shuts down some characters... But I suppose it is inevitable when you have polarizing characters in the game (hello LM).

Then again, Zelda gets completely shut down by characters as well and she didn't receive that many buffs. Let's cross our fingers !

 

[Locke 06]

As a Rosalina main, I have to disagree here. Her Nair is still pretty amazing when properly spaced, especially with Luma. She really doesn't need that power back.

Would it be fun? Sure. But it is over powered. Especially with a character that has enough power in the wrong places as is.

Yeah, I know she doesn't need it. Mega Man doesn't need rush canceling either. But I'm all about fun and overpowered in 1.0.0. I just think it'd be interesting now that people have gotten better at Smash 4 to see what they could do with the old character kits.

I miss vectoring though.

 

[Trieste SP]

They nerfed some, but some are still deemed too good. Maybe a slightly longer startup for them could work?
idk its too hard

lol, I agree, some customs are still too strong. Hopefully, they'll nerf some of them in the future.

 

[Lavani]

Fixed it D: I messed up, I typed 223 instead of 227.

Good, good.
Skarmory is a wonderful Pokemon.

This reminds me... @ Macchiato , what percent was it when I killed you really early with Luma's up tilt? I think it was when you were playing as ZSS, but it might've been Sheik. I'm pretty sure you were at like 50ish%, but I can't remember for sure. It was really funny, though. Luma with rage is terrifying. someone please post the angry luma picture tysm

Random aside, in 800+ Rosalina matches I've only gotten two fraudulently early rage kills; one was at 48% on a Sheik with uair when I was at max rage, and the other was a max rage dair on a 0% Shulk that jumped offstage to try and fair me.

I've landed sweetspot utilts at ~100% rage against low percent opponents but without them charging a smash or being a lighter character it doesn't even come close to KOing on normal-sized stages.

Yeah, I know she doesn't need it. Mega Man doesn't need rush canceling either. But I'm all about fun and overpowered in 1.0.0. I just think it'd be interesting now that people have gotten better at Smash 4 to see what they could do with the old character kits.

I miss vectoring though.

I miss 1.0.0 autolink spikes

 

[Rukia]

I wish I was capable of doing this every time I play Zelda.

Spoiler

 

[Unknownkid]

@ Lavani @ Lorde I see. I didn't know she was nerf beyond Luma. Thank you for the information.

 

[WolfieXVII ❂]

Lmao I just looked at my imgur
I have so much untouched avatar material
I can't say much about customs
Because I prefer vanilla characters mostly
Cept Kirby, going back to vanilla kirby after using Jumping Inhale and Upper Cutter is like playing Zelda on purpose

I miss vectoring though.

^^^^