Guide Zelda Social: But also the FE Heroes Internet Cafe

[Ffamran]

I SEE YOUR LIGHTNING AND RAISE YOU GLADIOLUS. COME AT ME, BRUH.
The manliness in your first gif, tho.

I melt into a puddle of goo with just one so...
Speaking of... your Lucario avi is gone. It was the perfect angle, too.

Excuse any likespam in the next few hours since I plan to go through a few pages when I have the time.

HA! Take this!

And this!

@ Soul.
Not as good as real match applications but this should show how stupid cyclone gimps can be

Or this. Boss really needs a chill pill (and play Dr. Mario more).

 

[2004Zilla]

clicked on the link, oh god. I can't read this

You aren't a T R U E W E A B O O

 

[Kofu]

Should I make a post about how I feel about each character in the roster? I would make one of "who I planned to use vs. who I use now" but I'd have to go through a bunch of characters to get to that point anyway. The real question is who would actually read it.

@ Soul. What archetype would you put Game & Watch under?

 

[S.F.L.R_9]

I'm watching M2K's stream and he decided to try Zelda...

 

[Lavani]

Should I make a post about how I feel about each character in the roster?

I thought about making one of those too. Maybe after I finish my rum.

Will involve lots of big red letters.*

The real question is who would actually read it.

I read every post in this thread.

*likely won't actually involve many big red letters

 

[Soul.]

Should I make a post about how I feel about each character in the roster? I would make one of "who I planned to use vs. who I use now" but I'd have to go through a bunch of characters to get to that point anyway. The real question is who would actually read it.

@ Soul. What archetype would you put Game & Watch under?

Tricky. G&W seems like a tricky character lol

 

[Kofu]

Tricky. G&W seems like a tricky character lol

Sounds about right. One of my friends who recently picked him up said he enjoys trapping people with him.

As much as I love his new dash attack, I still kind of miss its backward launch angle. Would he glorious against ledge campers in this game.

 

[Furret]

You aren't a T R U E W E A B O O

If I can't read something properly I feel like a don't belong there

At least I didn't like-spam you this time. Saw you post that sad Furret in those last 22 pages though, so you know I'm paying attention. :3

ah thanks

and it's not easy to find sad Furrets

 

[Locke 06]

I timed out an Olimar twice on stream in an online tourney. And the twitch chat?

WAS EXCITED ABOUT IT.

wat.

That MU is insanely draining though. Also, I am now firmly convinced MM vs Villager is at least 70-30 and might be a hard counter. Jv 2-stocked Z!n0to's villager (WiFi... Yes, but lol) and so he switched to Diddy.

Spoiler

Had him at 109% on his last stock with myself on a fresh stock, but then the streamer dc'd. Ended up winning the set with a close game 3.

 

[Fernosaur]

Villager and Zelda vs Megaman is a nightmare. Like, true, horrible nightmare.

I still dunno about Ness, but yeah... >_> **** the tin man.

 

[Locke 06]

Defensive Mega Man is a cancer to Smash 4.

The game would be better without him, much like Brawl would have been better without Dedede.

 

[Fernosaur]

I actually knew the moment he was announced that I'd hate him XD. I thought for a while that I wouldn't in the end, but then lemon walls appeared and I was like

NVM

 

[Lavani]

He's hard countered by spikes at least.

 

[Locke 06]

At first you said that, and I was like "nah, rush saves him from spikes because rush is a robot's best friend."

But then I understood.

 

[Lavani]

At first you said that, and I was like "nah, rush saves him from spikes because rush is a robot's best friend."

But then I understood.

I fully expected someone to think that.

But yeah, Rush in charge of being anti-fun.

 

[Locke 06]

At least rush canceling is gone.

lol if it wasn't patched out........... I knew Mega was good back then... but jeez. The Mega Man metagame was just too young to understand what power we had.

 

[Gay Ginger]

Villager and Zelda vs Megaman is a nightmare. Like, true, horrible nightmare.

I still dunno about Ness, but yeah... >_> **** the tin man.

Is Megaman really that hard for Zelda?

I know it's a bad match-up, but I didn't think it was one of her worst.

How do you think it compares to her match-ups against Yoshi, Diddy, Sheik, Olimar and Fox?

 

[Lavani]

Should start having 3DS 1.0.0 tournaments again imo

You can have your rush canceling and I can have my godfrog back

 

[Locke 06]

I loved god frog. That's actually what got me into playing smash 4 competitively was playing Spirst's god frog.

Rush canceling was hilarious though. Peach dsmash? Rush cancel. Zss fsmash? Rush cancel. Mario combos? Rush cancel.

 

[Fernosaur]

Is Megaman really that hard for Zelda?

I know it's a bad match-up, but I didn't think it was one of her worst.

How do you think it compares to her match-ups against Yoshi, Diddy, Sheik, Olimar and Fox?

I haven't fought good Diddys yet, but I can 100% asure you it's much worse than Yoshi and Sheik. I'm not sure about Olimar because I haven't faced him in this game yet, but the one time I tried going Zelda against Locke it was impossible to do anything. She's too tall and slow, meaning she's just food for the lemon wall, and she has no real aerial option to try and get in. Nayru's is more an emcuberance because as soon as you reflect a lemon MM is free to grab you, and in the air there's nothing Zelda can do against him. Phantom is not quick enough to protect you from the lemons, so the only real option Zelda has is trying to walk in by perfect shielding, which of course is pointless because MM can jump back as he's firing. Maybe a lucky FW might get him if you catch him right after shooting one, but a good MM won't fall for that.

On top of that, once he's got her on KO percent, he doesn't have much trouble killing her either because of his b-air and u-smash.

Tbh I think MM is Olimar levels of bad for her.

 

[Lavani]

Then again, going back to an environment with hitstun cancels means Diddies get to use the popgun→shield/airdodge jank

And 1.0.0 RosaLuma was TOXIC

we can just ban those two characters though ok

 

[Soul.]

3DS 1.0.0 was the ****.
Down B lag cancels, top tier Uber Frog, Thunder Panic, Rush/Thunder combo breakers, better Bouncing Fish, top tier Rosa..
**** I miss that thing.

 

[Locke 06]

1.0.0 Rosalina Nair was so good. I also played against a really good Rosalina (parcheesy) during those days and lol. The Nairplane was real.

 

[Gay Ginger]

I haven't fought good Diddys yet, but I can 100% asure you it's much worse than Yoshi and Sheik. I'm not sure about Olimar because I haven't faced him in this game yet, but the one time I tried going Zelda against Locke it was impossible to do anything. She's too tall and slow, meaning she's just food for the lemon wall, and she has no real aerial option to try and get in. Nayru's is more an emcuberance because as soon as you reflect a lemon MM is free to grab you, and in the air there's nothing Zelda can do against him. Phantom is not quick enough to protect you from the lemons, so the only real option Zelda has is trying to walk in by perfect shielding, which of course is pointless because MM can jump back as he's firing. Maybe a lucky FW might get him if you catch him right after shooting one, but a good MM won't fall for that.

On top of that, once he's got her on KO percent, he doesn't have much trouble killing her either because of his b-air and u-smash.

Tbh I think MM is Olimar levels of bad for her.

Much worse than Yoshi? D: To be honest, that much-up is absolutely horrid. Worse than Sheik and it might be even worse than Diddy in my opinion.

I've been thinking lately that Zelda's match-ups this time around don't seem much better than they were in Brawl. Sure there's no Brawl Olimar and Brawl Meta Knight, but she has so many other terrible match-ups it doesn't seem to matter...

@ Locke 06 would you mind playing a set or two against me sometime? I want to test this match-up for myself. I haven't played any really good MM players yet.

 

[Soul.]

This game needs more character-specific techs.
So bring back 1.0.0 stuff.

 

[Locke 06]

Much worse than Yoshi? D: To be honest, that much-up is absolutely horrid. Worse than Sheik and it might be even worse than Diddy in my opinion.

I've been thinking lately that Zelda's match-ups this time around don't seem much better than they were in Brawl. Sure there's no Brawl Olimar and Brawl Meta Knight, but she has so many other terrible match-ups it doesn't seem to matter...

@ Locke 06 would you mind playing a set or two against me sometime? I want to test this match-up for myself. I haven't played any really good MM players yet.

Sure! Umm... I'm super MM'd out and probably will take at least a couple days off of Smash. Way too much zoning today. But like... Next weekend maybe?

 

[Fernosaur]

Much worse than Yoshi? D: To be honest, that much-up is absolutely horrid. Worse than Sheik and it might be even worse than Diddy in my opinion.

I've been thinking lately that Zelda's match-ups this time around don't seem much better than they were in Brawl. Sure there's no Brawl Olimar and Brawl Meta Knight, but she has so many other terrible match-ups it doesn't seem to matter...

@ Locke 06 would you mind playing a set or two against me sometime? I want to test this match-up for myself. I haven't played any really good MM players yet.

Curiously enough, out of all of the top tiers in this game, I think Sheik is the one Zelda has the easier time with because of the KO power imbalance, and with Rosalina because Luma is non-existent against Zelda, but then again, Rosalina won't stay as a true top for long. Out of that, everything else above Rosa is just horrible. Her meta's gonna end up being just like Brawl, man :/

 

[Gay Ginger]

Sure! Umm... I'm super MM'd out and probably will take at least a couple days off of Smash. Way too much zoning today. But like... Next weekend maybe?

Great! I'll send you a PM later this week and we'll figure it all out.

Curiously enough, out of all of the top tiers in this game, I think Sheik is the one Zelda has the easier time with because of the KO power imbalance, and with Rosalina because Luma is non-existent against Zelda, but then again, Rosalina won't stay as a true top for long. Out of that, everything else above Rosa is just horrible. Her meta's gonna end up being just like Brawl, man :/

People keep saying that she's "viable" this time around, but I just don't see it at all.

 

[Kofu]

He's hard countered by spikes at least.

So Gordos should instakill him!

If they can ever not be reflected.

Mega Man's a solid character, if different from most, but he has a very dangerous design from a competitive standpoint. I'm just glad he has a relatively high learning curve.

I successfully made someone ragequit against me on FG. I was going random and got one of the Villager palettes that I use and I was like "k I got this." My opponent was... okay but didn't seem like anything special, although he seemed to feel like he was (he taunted as Sonic when I SDed with Charizard when I was at relatively low percent and that's one way to really irritate me, I did win that match though). He was just one of those players that I didn't like for whatever reason.

Back to the Villager match, he picked Fox and proceeded to beat me though his Fox felt wholly uninspired. That set me off so I went on a Villager spree. I beat his next four or five characters then he went back to Fox, who I beat that time. I hoped he would stick around for another match so I could do it again but he was gone by the time I left the results screen lol.

Personally I think Villager is kind of bad against rollers/shielders because of the way his FAir and BAir work and because his grab is so horrible. @ Fernosaur and @ CatRaccoonBL confirm or deny? Maybe I just suck with him.

 

[Locke 06]

Imo, Mega's learning curve isn't too high.

His jump squat is 4 frames, which makes SH stuff hard to do consistently at forst, but basic Mega Man isn't as hard as say, basic Greninja or basic Shulk. With good spacing fundamentals and decent lemon usage, you can do pretty well. What makes him hard to use is high risk high reward kill moves which derive their use from MU knowledge and microspacing/reads. A power shielded utilt is like... A half charged smash attack punish.

He's just mentally hard to use at a medium level. Item techs and advanced lemoning is tough though... I won't deny that.

 

[Kofu]

He's got this weird balance of chip damage projectiles and powerful strikes and it's hard for me to know when to use what. Lack of low jump AC aerials also gives me a mental block but you think that wouldn't be too big of an issue considering is in the same boat. I think it's really just that his FTilt, NAir, and UTilt are unusual and that they require a mental shift.

The only nerf Greninja needed was USmash lag. Hydro Pump weakening was probably wise as well (didn't realize it was as strong as it was until Lavani showed those gifs, geez). Other stuff should have stayed the same IMO.

Does Thunder come out frame 1? It seems like it, or close, but I've never seen data on it. Once I KOed a Pikachu with the meteor portion of a Pocketed Thunder. Good times.

 

[Soul.]

I'm pretty sure Thunder's bolt is frame 1.
Ugh why can't they bring back combo breaker Thunder

 

[Fernosaur]

Personally I think Villager is kind of bad against rollers/shielders because of the way his FAir and BAir work and because his grab is so horrible. @ Fernosaur and @ CatRaccoonBL confirm or deny? Maybe I just suck with him.

Yeah, I agree that Villager can be kinda hard to use on wifi because it's harder to punish rolls and relatively quick to end attacks. It's also really hard for him to approach on wifi, because most Villager techs that serve to punish shieldgrabs have very strict timing and input delay will really **** you over and get you grabbed instead. Empty hop to d-smash or 2nd jump + Nair are great ways to punish shield grabbers, but good luck pulling that out with FG delay.

Add to that that most players will abuse wifi tactics and you ain't got a fun time playing as Villager. :/

I wish For Glory allowed Miis , I have no rush-down character to use in that ****hole.

People keep saying that she's "viable" this time around, but I just don't see it at all.

People only say that because they've seen her do well in a couple matches against tops like Sheik and Diddy, and because of her high KO power. And while I agree that Zelda is a viable choice against Sheik (I actually prefer to use her over Villager or Ness), all of the other tops really obliterate her, specially once they go on the defensive after getting a % lead, at which point her KO power is basically meaningless because she has no way to use it unless the opponent goes back to offense. Seeing how the game's meta is starting to evolve towards massive defensiveness, that's like, Zelda's biggest curse.

 

[ぱみゅ]

Personally I think Villager is kind of bad against rollers/shielders because of the way his FAir and BAir work and because his grab is so horrible. @ Fernosaur and @ CatRaccoonBL confirm or deny? Maybe I just suck with him.

Villager has a Lloid Rocket, and his Dash Attack is really good if he gets a read.


Edit: Yeah, I kinda forgot the Wifi thingy.
I *DESPISE* Wifi

 

[Kofu]

I'm pretty sure Thunder's bolt is frame 1.
Ugh why can't they bring back combo breaker Thunder

That's what I thought. Does the hitstun prevent it from breaking combos?

Villager has a Lloid Rocket, and his Dash Attack is really good if he gets a read.

Edit: Yeah, I kinda forgot the Wifi thingy.
I *DESPISE* Wifi

Lloid Rocket is all right but Villager's so slow I can't always get the followups I want, especially if it's a grab. I've been trying to use dash attack less because it's a big commitment and the pot often gets neutered like slingshots do. It does prop people up at a good angle though.

I'm usually okay with Wi-Fi because it's basically all I have lol. It can be tedious though.

I love the teams for the current conquest. Team Kirby is fine, Team Fox is mocking that Wolf is gone, and Team Rosalina is just "space travelers lol."

 

[Soul.]

That's what I thought. Does the hitstun prevent it from breaking combos?

Are you talking about Thunder's hitstun? I dunno. It kinda does

 

[Deleted member]

*quietly sneaks in and posts 3,000th message*

 

[CatRaccoonBL]

Back to the Villager match, he picked Fox and proceeded to beat me though his Fox felt wholly uninspired. That set me off so I went on a Villager spree. I beat his next four or five characters then he went back to Fox, who I beat that time. I hoped he would stick around for another match so I could do it again but he was gone by the time I left the results screen lol.

Personally I think Villager is kind of bad against rollers/shielders because of the way his FAir and BAir work and because his grab is so horrible. @ Fernosaur and @ CatRaccoonBL confirm or deny? Maybe I just suck with him.

Well, define bad for rollers. Villager's shovel is decent at handling rolls and leads to loads of damage and a potential kill. Villager also has three amazing read killers being Bowling ball, Timber, and Axe. Getting the bowling ball and Timber reads especially is pretty much like saying GG to your opponent. He also has lloid rocket and his dash attack to help you read rolls as well as punish them. Nair is good for just throwing out as well.

I don't know, kinda hard to call. Villager has decent tools for handling them as well having amazing hard read killers.

Shields...Yeah, Villager does have some trouble. But he does have some decent tools though. His nair for example.

 

[Berserker.]

I loved god frog.

 

[PUK]

Saitama DLC confirmed