Guide Zelda Social: But also the FE Heroes Internet Cafe

[FullMoon]

I'm still trying to find a good secondary for Greninja. So far I use Mario but that's mostly because he was my main in the earlier games. I thought of trying Rosalina but she really doesn't fit my style.

 

[Kofu]

Yeah, unfortunate indeed. I guess. I don't play the character, so it's technically better for me if she's bad

Let's get fired up!

I'm still baffled...if they intended jab1>dsmash and jab1>usmash, how the hell did they not realize that would make jab1>jab1>jab1>jab(ry a thing? You'd think it'd at least cause pushback after the third hit or something like most dtilts...

I think they were specifically meaning to use those smashes after jab 2, not jab 1. But it's still dumb that Link gets free combos like that.

excuse me sir, that attack doesn't kill

I'm special, what can I say?

 

[Lavani]

I'm still trying to find a good secondary for Greninja. So far I use Mario but that's mostly because he was my main in the earlier games. I thought of trying Rosalina but she really doesn't fit my style.

"What matchups do I need a secondary for?" is the question you should be asking yourself.

I get the feeling Meta Knight might be his worst matchup, though it's mostly theory as I haven't played that matchup on any meaningful level myself; he doesn't really have OoS options to punish MK's stuff, and in contrast MK has the tools to bait and punish reactions from Greninja. It's also one of those rare MUs where Greninja is edgeguarded by his opponent better than he can edgeguard them. By that rationale, Sonic would be a good secondary.

Not really sure who else Greninja struggles against, aside from Sheik but pretty much everyone struggles there. I felt like Rosalina and ZSS were bad matchups, but if the MU thread is anything to go by it's apparently just me being bad.

 

[FullMoon]

From my experience Greninja only has significant trouble with Sheik, Fox and Sonic. I haven't played against Meta Knight much though so I'm not sure how that MU goes.

 

[Aunt Jemima]

I don't secondary characters for their MUs, but rather how much I like them...

Although my only secondary is Palutena, and while it was somewhat influenced by Uprising, it's more because I like customs.

 

[Lavani]

Well, @ FullMoon did say "a good secondary for Greninja" and mentioned he was subbing Mario currently because he liked him (or used to, at least). I don't think Greninja or Dedede help cover any of Rosalina's matchups, they're just fun to play and Dedede is legit the coolest character in the cast so they are my secondaries.

I mean, how can you say no to this?

 

[FullMoon]

To be honest, I'm still probably going to play Greninja 90% of the time, I just thought of maybe getting a secondary just in case I'm having way too much problem with a particular opponent. More like a desperate measure, I guess.

And I still do like Mario, I just didn't use him in Brawl because Lucas existed and he was kinda bad there. He's very fun to play now with all the strings he can do.

I've gone through a lot of secondaries (Samus, Falco, Peach, Palutena, Lucina, WFT...) but none of them really worked all that well. Samus and Falco were probably the ones I had the most sucess with.

... It's kinda funny that before I got back to Mario, I used to second mainly low tier characters.

 

[Ffamran]

So far, my main cast of characters spell out the acronym "FIG", but I end up using a ton of other characters regardless.

 

[Lavani]

I've gone through a lot of secondaries (Samus, Falco, Peach, Palutena, Lucina, WFT...) but none of them really worked all that well. Samus and Falco were probably the ones I had the most sucess with.

... It's kinda funny that before I got back to Mario, I used to second mainly low tier characters.

I can relate.

Characters I've tried to play:


Characters I can actually play:

 

[Aunt Jemima]

Characters I've tried to play:


Characters I can actually play:

 

[WolfieXVII ❂]

Characters I've tried

Characters I can competently play
<----Competitively
for fun

I bought a Samus amiibo in an attempt to learn her and failed horribly
Awesome amiibo though

 

[Spirst]

We doing this now? Alright.

Characters I've tried to play:


Characters I can actually play competitively:


could probably be in the latter even though I seldom use her but that's true for everyone since all you have to do is press buttons and hope it hits.

 

[Alacion]

Not reading hundreds of posts but what does this entail: "Zelda visual effects added" in regards to the patch?

Does she sparkle when lagging from a kick or something?

 

[FullMoon]

Well, I'm gonna more in detail then:

Characters I've tried to play:



Characters I can actually play:



Samus probably fits in the first group better than the second though.

 

[Berserker.]

Berserker01
Main:
Secondary:

This is basically the case for me

The only characters I can't play well are

I can play as everyone else decently though. Not really good but eh, decent enough. I use really well.

 

[evmaxy54]

Sistren,

What would be a good counterpick for that poopy-head Fox?

 

[Berserker.]

Sistren,

What would be a good counterpick for that poopy-head Fox?

@Sinister Slush can probably back me up on this
No **** Sherlock


I think everyone here uses Diddy really well by default

 

[evmaxy54]

@Sinister Slush can probably back me up on this
No **** Sherlock


I think everyone here uses Diddy well by default

I'd rather get JV 4 stocked than touch Diddy.

I might give Yoshi a go doe

 

[Spirst]

@Sinister Slush can probably back me up on this
No **** Sherlock


I think everyone here uses Diddy really well by default

Diddy, Rosalina, and Sheik are probably the easiest characters to get into. Diddy moreso but Rosalina is pretty braindead easy herself. I thought, pre-release, she would be all technical and complex but wow, lol.

 

[warionumbah2]

Is MK that hard to pick up and not suck with?

 

[Berserker.]

Nah. What makes Rosalina complex is how to **** around with luma. You can really feel the difficulty of using her once you lose the luma where in she's basically a better Zelda with 2 non-existent specials (Hey hey, you get me here? Phantom and Din's? 2 missing specials. Like Zelda). That's saying a lot in a negative way

Is MK that hard to pick up and not suck with?

If you play him like Brawl MK and still think you're some sort of God-incarnate then yeah, he's hard to pick up. He's still good in this game though

EDIT: Okay. Maybe utilizing luma isn't that hard if you narrow it down to the only moves of Luma that matter
1) Jab
2) U-tilt
3) U-air
4) N-air

 

[FullMoon]

Is MK that hard to pick up and not suck with?

His hitboxes are so tiny...

 

[Nammy12]

Nah. What makes Rosalina complex is how to **** around with luma. You can really feel the difficulty of using her once you lose the luma where in she's basically a better Zelda with 2 non-existent specials (Hey hey, you get me here? Phantom and Din's? 2 missing specials. Like Zelda). That's saying a lot in a negative way

EDIT: Okay. Maybe utilizing luma isn't that hard if you narrow it down to the only moves of Luma that matter
1) Jab
2) U-tilt
3) U-air
4) N-air

I think Luma is a stronger fighter than Rosalina.
I mean, look at how much power it has. Jabs that can kill, that ****ing u-air.
Just give it a recovery and we can replace Rosie in Smash 5.

 

[Lavani]

Seconding the Yoshi vote for anti-Fox.

Not sure I agree with Rosalina being easy, but she's much less complex than I was expecting, and is definitely easier than Greninja. Bad Rosas are going to roll over and die for free as soon as they lose Luma.

I think Luma is a stronger fighter than Rosalina.
I mean, look at how much power it has. Jabs that can kill, that ****ing u-air.
Just give it a recovery and we can replace Rosie in Smash 5.

Luma strong af

Solo Rosie can't kill until like 140%

Luma bops nerds at like 100%, even less if you connect a good fsmash or rage!dair/uair/utilt

Is MK that hard to pick up and not suck with?

I'm not sure if he's really hard or not, he just feels non-intuitive to me, and that's a mental roadblock that has prevented me from maining many characters in many games in the past. I didn't play him in Brawl so I don't have that mental association hampering me with him in this game, either.

His hitboxes are so tiny...

Really only a problem if you think of him as a sword character imo

He isn't Marth or Link, for what he is his range is fine. Though hitboxes being shorter than the sword visual on dtilt/ftilt/fair are annoying.

 

[Aunt Jemima]

Even without Luma, Rosalina is better than half the cast. She's pretty braindead. I just wish we actually saw some cool Luma techniques. Insteadf we see people mashing buttons to use Luma's frame 3 N-Air to escape everything.

 

[Spirst]

So I just got this sick combo online.

Why do I play this ****ing mode again?

 

[SBphiloz4]

List tiiiiiiime. c:

Characters that are easy to pick up in general (not competent though):
Characters that I REALLY want to learn, but just fail miserably:
Characters that I just don't use well in general:
Characters that I probably won't touch:
Characters I use decently as secondaries, but still not tournament ready:
Characters that I can actually use :^)

 

[evmaxy54]

Time to pick up Mr. Dino

Danke schön sisters!

 

[Berserker.]

She can't be better than half the cast when she's basically Zelda+

She also loses 2 specials and her zoning ability and her KO ability and her zoning ability. Her moves are still fine though if you ignore damage output and KO potential

Best she can do is stall and hope that the opponent doesn't remember how crappy her OoS options are

 

[SBphiloz4]

Time to pick up Mr. Dino

Danke schön sisters!

Yoshi is kinda cancerous in this game. I seconded him in Melee and Brawl because of his obscurity, but I kinda hate him now for being a bit too easy to use now. Your choice to use him though, and honestly, he is a good backup for characters like Fox and the like. c:

So I just got this sick combo online.

Why do I play this ****ing mode again?

 

[warionumbah2]

His hitboxes are so tiny...

You use Mario right? Should be used to short range characters.

I'm not sure if he's really hard or not, he just feels non-intuitive to me, and that's a mental roadblock that has prevented me from maining many characters in many games in the past. I didn't play him in Brawl so I don't have that mental association hampering me with him in this game, either.


Really only a problem if you think of him as a sword character imo

He isn't Marth or Link, for what he is his range is fine. Though hitboxes being shorter than the sword visual on dtilt/ftilt/fair are annoying.

He plays nothing like brawl so its ok. Honestly this whole range thing isn't a bother you should be all up in their grill anyway.

 

[Berserker.]

I still use the British jedi knight against Fox especially since you can actually DI out of jab (or vision out of it)

Shulk sucks ass at doubles though so I need a doubles main now not named Mr. GW

 

[FullMoon]

I play For Glory when I'm bored. I just played this Little Mac that did nothing but run around and occasionally use Side-B or Counter.

You use Mario right? Should be used to short range characters.

MK's hitboxes feel really tiny though even if they might not be as tiny as it looks like, I think Mario's moves just flow together a lot better.

 

[Berserker.]

You know what I like doing to Derp Macs? Intentionally whiffing attacks. They ALWAYS fall for it and waste a counter

 

[evmaxy54]

Yoshi is kinda cancerous in this game. I seconded him in Melee and Brawl because of his obscurity, but I kinda hate him now for being a bit too easy to use now. Your choice to use him though, and honestly, he is a good backup for characters like Fox and the like. c:

Sadly sis, it has to be done...

Fox terrifies me in this game & a few people in Ireland uses him so... ;_;

 

[Lavani]

She can't be better than half the cast when she's basically Zelda+

She also loses 2 specials and her zoning ability and her KO ability and her zoning ability. Her moves are still fine though if you ignore damage output and KO potential

Best she can do is stall and hope that the opponent doesn't remember how crappy her OoS options are

I agree with the rest, but crappy OoS options? She's the only character I play that has OoS options; Greninja and Dedede don't have usable usmashes OoS, and without Luma Rosalina's most damaging option is grab>(pummel>)bthrow anyway.

You know what I like doing to Derp Macs? Intentionally whiffing attacks. They ALWAYS fall for it and waste a counter

You know what's even better? Hitting them from behind when they counter offstage expecting you to edgeguard, so they go sailing off into the blast zone.

 

[Berserker.]

I agree with the rest, but crappy OoS options? She's the only character I play that has OoS options; Greninja and Dedede don't have usable usmashes OoS, and without Luma Rosalina's most damaging option is grab>(pummel>)bthrow anyway.

Can you name her OoS options without luma? This would probably help me with SoRo

You know what's even better? Hitting them from behind when they counter offstage expecting you to edgeguard, so they go sailing off into the blast zone.

I unintentionally did this with Shulk's n-air

 

[Lavani]

Can you name her OoS options without luma? This would probably help me with SoRo

Grab and usmash.

More than just grab for Dedede or Greninja's awful grab, though.

 

[Ffamran]

Sistren,

What would be a good counterpick for that poopy-head Fox?

Falco. You're basically pulling a Ken to a Ryu or a Ganondorf to a Captain Falcon situation.

 

[FullMoon]

So uh, I just went against some guy playing Meta Knight in For Glory who was actually good and I got destroyed pretty solidly.

Not having a very good impression for that MU for Greninja so far. Granted, I have no experience whatsoever fighting MK so...