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Guide Zelda Social: But also the FE Heroes Internet Cafe

Furret

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@ Ffamran Ffamran your personal love of feathered things made me think you need to see this after I nearly died laughing
...


You can't hate this.
I actually hate that pic
there's just something awful about it
Since when does heat tolerance have to do with manliness? Well speaking of heat tolerance I can be comfortable in high heat for up to 150 degrees, BAHAHAHAHAHA! Also, while it does get very cold to the desert, it is still very different living in a place with a cold climate. It is still a huge contrast to living in a desert. Though if you want me to prove my manliness, I could neuter you and your family! BAHAHAHAHA!
those actions don't make you manly
edit: oh and yes, fat and muscle both help in with cold tolerance
 
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D

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@ Ffamran Ffamran your personal love of feathered things made me think you need to see this after I nearly died laughing

I actually hate that pic
there's just something awful about it


those actions don't make you manly
edit: oh and yes, fat and muscle both help in with cold tolerance
 

Ffamran

The Smooth Devil Mod
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Yeah, I was admiring this too. I had Dark Pit fall out of my usmash three times before I finally got it to connect, and then was dismayed to see it didn't KO at 129%.

I thought uair having a "weak" hit meant it would always be able to combo into bair, but it doesn't seem like even nair is guaranteed off that hitbox. Disappointing...

I will say his lower percent combo game is pretty good though, reminiscent of Luigi in a way; lots of hits string together and each of those hits are 11%+ so damage adds up fast.
The weird thing is that it rarely happens to me. I have whiffed the first hit and connected the second once. I think it might be positional and dependent on weight/fall speed. I tend to get up really close when I use Falco's Up Smash. On weight/fall speed: Fox might not be able to get out of it, but Jigglypuff might. Same thing might apply to hurtboxes, DK's not getting out there, but Lucina might.

Anyway, Falco's combo game early on is deadly since his single hits never dip below 6% and like I said about being able to string Bair 3 times, that's 39% or 21% if only late hits connect. Early on, 3 Utilts can connect for 27%, 2 Up Smashes for 32%, the 3 Dtilts to Reflector combo from the video I found does 37%. Hell, you can connect a full Nair out of D-throw for 18% or U-throw to Uair twice for 28%. The issue is later game where his knockback is a bit too much for him to keep up, but early game means he can build damage like a fiend and trading damage is a bad idea. It's why I think Fox vs. Falco is a fairly even MU since Fox can rack up damage fast, but if Falco keeps interrupting Fox and trading hits, Falco's probably going to be in rage and Fox will be ripe for a kill. On the other hand, Luigi would have an advantage because he's faster than Falco, Luigi Cyclone's priority is insane, and has more range, but Falco has more kill moves and can easily gimp Luigi with Fair and Dair.
 
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Jaguar360

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Here's my personal opinionated tier list

S :4diddy::rosalina::4sheik::4pikachu::4sonic:
A :4zss::4lucario::4fox::4ness::4olimar::4tlink::4yoshi::4luigi::4mario::4greninja:
B :4peach::4pacman::4robinm::4falcon::4jigglypuff::4megaman::4link::4zelda::4shulk::4myfriends:
C :4duckhunt::4wiifit::4pit::4darkpit::4gaw::4rob::4villager::4dk::4bowser::4littlemac:
D :4marth::4dedede::4palutena::4bowserjr::4lucina::4metaknight::4ganondorf::4falco::4wario2::4samus::4charizard:

Waits for hate
You've been underrating Wario by a ton. He basically controls the air game with his 3rd-highest air speed in combination with n-air, f-air, d-air and Chomp. Bike is great as a projectile and as a movement tool. His grab game is good with Chomp as a command grab, down throw being decent for combos, and f-throw and b-throw have some kill power at high percents. His kill power is good too with the new f-smash and u-smash and u-air and b-air can kill as well. Finally and perhaps most importantly is Wario Waft, which can easily close a stock when fully charged, similarly to Mac's K.O. Punch.

Take a look at Relfex's Wario for instance.
Vs. Sonic/Fox https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npzmEybSQ70
Vs. Diddy/Rosie https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8eOfsoz9sZs

I believe that Zelda is viable, but still low or bottom tier in this game. She has great k.o. power and has a bit of a combo game going on thanks to d-tilt, u-tilt and d-throw. Her projectiles are both poor, but do a decent enough job at forcing approaches and Phantom has utility in edgeguarding and creating space for Zelda. However, she suffers from a poor approach as her only options from neutral are her tilts (which are all a tad slow), dash attack (unsafe), Farore's (unsafe), and Phantom Slash (slow). Her slow grab doesn't help either. These approach issues along with her tall frame and mid-light weight make rushdown characters especially hard for her to face.

From what I have played with and seen, this is about what my tier list is looking like so far without customs:
S: :4diddy::rosalina::4sheik::4pikachu::4sonic:
A: :4zss::4fox::4ness::4yoshi::4lucario::4pit::4darkpit::4falcon::4luigi::4shulk::4wario::4pacman::4mario:
B: :4greninja::4peach::4villager::4myfriends::4rob::4duckhunt::4megaman::4jigglypuff::4olimar::4charizard::4miibrawl::4bowser::4littlemac:
C: :4miigun::4link::4ganondorf::4robinm::4bowserjr::4dk::4samus::4gaw::4tlink::4marth::4zelda::4metaknight::4wiifit::4drmario:
D: :4palutena::4falco::4lucina::4kirby::4dedede::4miisword:
Everyone has something going for them and can be effective in a fight, but they either have to be consistent or just have some really outstanding things in their arsenal. I'll just talk about the characters that I feel might be lower than Zelda.
:4metaknight: Up-air to Shuttle Loop near the ceiling is pretty scary and Meta Knight attacks quickly and dashes quickly. He also has a kill throw in u-throw. However, his lack or range and disjoint makes it hard for Meta Knight's attacks to actually connect and he's not that great at killing. His low air speed is also a bit of a hindrance.
:4wiifit:WFT is agile, fairly strong and has access to a projectile, but she suffers from poor range, awkward hitboxes, poor recovery and a tall frame.
:4drmario:Doc has two major problems: his recovery is very poor, especially vertically and his very slow dash speed makes it diifcult to approach or punish from mid-long range. However, Doc can get in on the opponent with pills and is very scary once he does. His high attack speed, great combos and kill power compensate for his two big flaws.
:4palutena:Palutena's up smash, reflector and d-throw are the only really notable things I see in her. She is pretty mediocre from there and has slow tilts.
:4falco:Falco's not bad; he has decent power, a good jab, a good reflector and Blaster is still good despite being heavily nerfed. He is sluggish, however and his attacks are pretty unsafe on block, especially his aerials.
:4lucina:Worse than Marth because she doesn't get the rewards from spacing like she is supposed to and is less safe on block when she hits up close. Nothing really scary coming from her either.
:4kirby:Kirby can be used effectively; I've seen MikeKirby in action and he uses him very well. He has good combos from u-tilt, though not much else is noteworthy. Kirby has below-average movement speed, nerfed feet range and is one of lightest characters in the game.
:4dedede:Dedede is really fat and takes a lot of effort to kill and is strong, but a lot of the characters in this game do very well against him thanks to his large size. His Gordos are reflected very easily and can be a liability against characters like (Dr.) Mario, Ness, Zelda, Fox, Falco and Greninja. He is basically a punching bag for combos because of his size and falling speed and his low speed on the ground, in the air and in his attacks makes it difficult for him to get a hit in oftentimes.
:4miisword:I know nothing about Mii Swordfighter tbh lol.
 

Fernosaur

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@ Lavani Lavani Now I'm also curious to know how you see me according to your avatar thing :v

Yeah, I read that. It definitely has the skull structure of a Rugops and the scaly bumps of a Carnotaurus, but I can't see any traces of Majungasaurus in its physical appearance.

Don't know why they gave it long arms as well, since all of the theropods they spliced I-rex with have relatively short arms.
I think I had read somewhere that it had some velociraptor in it too? Maybe it was just a rumor, or maybe they're hiding it for a movie reveal :p.

Who knows! The one thing I know is that those long arms make her ridic scary. I mean she's got ****ing thumbs with claws. WHY WOULD YOU GIVE A MURDEROUS DINOSAUR THUMBS?!
 

Twili

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>_____________________>

Yeah... that stage... that and that one pokemon stage in Wii U Smash with the Wailord. NOT GONNA EVEN DENY IT.
What about Kyogre? Have you seen him in the game yet? He's a Pokémon assist.

Edit: Remembering he was in Brawl, too. Wtg Twi, but my question still stands!
 
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Ffamran

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@ Ffamran Ffamran your personal love of feathered things made me think you need to see this after I nearly died laughing
I like wolves, foxes, and other canines more. They're fluffy. :)


Oh, and thanks for reminding me about my film backlog... Jaysus that's a lot of films...

But yeah, birds are cool, especially Daffy Duck and Falco "Malcolm" Lombardi. Meanwhile, Jet the Hawk. :p

Ahem... @ kaazers kaazers . :p
 

2004Zilla

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@ Lavani Lavani Now I'm also curious to know how you see me according to your avatar thing :v



I think I had read somewhere that it had some velociraptor in it too? Maybe it was just a rumor, or maybe they're hiding it for a movie reveal :p.

Who knows! The one thing I know is that those long arms make her ridic scary. I mean she's got ****ing thumbs with claws. WHY WOULD YOU GIVE A MURDEROUS DINOSAUR THUMBS?!
I think I-rex was initially a T. rex/Velociraptor/Snake/Cuttlefish (lol) hybrid.

Also relevant:
 

kaazers

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omg. that wolf. sooo cute.

What about Kyogre? Have you seen him in the game yet? He's a Pokémon assist.

Edit: Remembering he was in Brawl, too. Wtg Twi, but my question still stands!
I don't know why... but Kyogre never really bothered me so much...

NOW WAILORD.

Halp.

 

Twili

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I don't know why... but Kyogre never really bothered me so much...

NOW WAILORD.

Halp.

May the stars help you when you finally get the game one day.
because you know we won't :smirk:
 

Fernosaur

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@ Fernosaur Fernosaur did my zelda get worst? I feel like she did.
I hadn't seen this, sorry.

Uh... I dunno? I sure as hell know mine was playing really badly today, haha. I dunno about yours. I mean, sometimes we have off days! You were whiffing more elevators than landing them this morning but we've also already played some good matches together and we've probably learned to read each other better by now, so maybe I'm getting better at not getting hit by your elevs?

Dunno, really. You feel down about her or something?
 

Farorae

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Eh, nothing I didn't know about unfortunately. Thanks for confirming.

I guess the big question now is what can he do to set things up at kill percents. Inadvertently found sideB>bair was a kill combo while pressing buttons.


Names are hard, I just remember people by their avatars.

Farorae will forever be gayaradoscat to me
Makes me hesitant to change my avatar lol
 

Twili

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While the majority of the Smash community focuses on fighting and getting better, @XDanDan612 and I are in our own little corner playing Zelda footsie tag. Yolo.
 

kaazers

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May the stars help you when you finally get the game one day.
because you know we won't :smirk:
I LOVE YOU GUYS, TOO. >>

you know what I DO know? i know that you guys are gonna be cackling at me freaking out on the wailord. :awesome:
 

Lavani

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Everyone has something going for them and can be effective in a fight, but they either have to be consistent or just have some really outstanding things in their arsenal. I'll just talk about the characters that I feel might be lower than Zelda.
:4metaknight: Up-air to Shuttle Loop near the ceiling is pretty scary and Meta Knight attacks quickly and dashes quickly. He also has a kill throw in u-throw. However, his lack or range and disjoint makes it hard for Meta Knight's attacks to actually connect and he's not that great at killing. His low air speed is also a bit of a hindrance.
:4wiifit:WFT is agile, fairly strong and has access to a projectile, but she suffers from poor range, awkward hitboxes, poor recovery and a tall frame.
:4palutena:Palutena's up smash, reflector and d-throw are the only really notable things I see in her. She is pretty mediocre from there and has slow tilts.
:4falco:Falco's not bad; he has decent power, a good jab, a good reflector and Blaster is still good despite being heavily nerfed. He is sluggish, however and his attacks are pretty unsafe on block, especially his aerials.
:4kirby:Kirby can be used effectively; I've seen MikeKirby in action and he uses him very well. He has good combos from u-tilt, though not much else is noteworthy. Kirby has below-average movement speed, nerfed feet range and is one of lightest characters in the game.
:4dedede:Dedede is really fat and takes a lot of effort to kill and is strong, but a lot of the characters in this game do very well against him thanks to his large size. His Gordos are reflected very easily and can be a liability against characters like (Dr.) Mario, Ness, Zelda, Fox, Falco and Greninja. He is basically a punching bag for combos because of his size and falling speed and his low speed on the ground, in the air and in his attacks makes it difficult for him to get a hit in oftentimes.
Time to talk about things.

:4metaknight: His range on most moves isn't exactly worse than characters like Mario/Luigi, my main gripe is just that it doesn't match the animations for certain moves (ftilt is a prime offender). His kill power isn't bad either, though his favored kill move in upB is usually stale from combo usage. Fsmash kills around 90%, has nothing for end lag, and has enough shieldstun to be unpunishable on block. Usmash, nair, bair, upB, downB, and the back hit of dsmash all kill well too; his bair actually kills as well as Dedede's, hilariously enough. His air speed's actually buffed from Brawl too, though I don't recall where in the cast he resides now in that regard. Overall though, I see him being around middle of the cast at the worst.

:4wiifit:In regards to her upB, you can mash B to get more height. I didn't know about this until like December myself :V

:4palutena:She has what's arguably one of the best jabs in the game, and can jab>(jab>)grab. Her grab game is good too, especially with customs on where she can lightweight>dthrow>nair>uair to kill at 30%. Dash attack is fully invincible, bair also has partial invincibility on and around her shield which is incredibly useful for edgeguarding as well as beating out literally everything you can predict, uair kills very well and combos off of dthrow. The character does get a lot better with customs on and isn't exactly special with them off, but her base kit's still better than you're giving it credit for.

:4falco:To be fair nearly everything in this game is unsafe on block, aerials especially. I still don't find his jab that amazing; jab1 being 2f is good, but he has one of the easiest rapid jabs in the game to SDI out of.

:4kirby:I actually feel like Kirby's viable. I just don't feel like he's good in any noteworthy area that make him shine above the rest of the cast, and I probably rank him lower than I actually feel he is because of it.

:4dedede:Adding to your Dedede complaint list, he has disturbingly soft hits for a heavyweight. His sweetspotted usmash hits as hard as Mario's usmash, his dsmash does less damage than all of Kirby's smashes, and aside from sweetspot usmash/fsmash/downB (never use downB) he doesn't have any moves that kill below 130% center stage.

@ Lavani Lavani Now I'm also curious to know how you see me according to your avatar thing :v
You are an exception, I go by your sig.
 
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Fernosaur

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You are an exception, I go by your sig.
I'm special! :p

By the way, talking about those characters up there, :4wiifit:'s recovery I actually find to be pretty good because of the quick mashing. Once you do that it can go surprising distances and it doesn't go in just one direction. It's also pretty good for harassing people close to the ledge and will probably gimp the characters with mediocre recoveries like Mario and vanilla Shulk.

She's also a pretty good juggler with her nair and uair.

But yeah, weird hitboxes and lame range still put her low anyways.
 

Farorae

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got him what? a cake?

back when I was in school, we had desks
We do too, my art teacher just let me walk around the campus during class and take some pictures, the campus is pretty big i guess.
Although I have spent a few classes outside, usually by the bay. And I went kayaking in the bay during class about two months ago. We mostly do stuff indoors though I swear! :p
 
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Ffamran

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So gaiz

Which of the current bottom tier characters is most likely to be a sleeping mid/high-mid tier?
Not-Zelda, that's for damn sure. Who, no, that's not Zelda, that's Not-Zelda who appeared in Not-Zelda II: The Adventure of Not-Link.


Anyway, I'd say Ike who people are putting in the bottom tier for some dumb reason, Meta Knight, WFT, Triple D, and Marth?/Lucina. Why Ike and Marth are at the bottom? I have no idea.

Falco and Zelda get their own, separate tiers away from everyone: the F and Z tiers. :p

Wait a minute... F and Z... F-Zero sequel confirmed! ... Half-Life 3 confirmed and Mega Man will be revived in a new Mega Man game by Nintendo and not Capcom! :seuss:
 
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Fernosaur

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Anyway, I'd say Ike who people are putting in the bottom tier for some dumb reason, Meta Knight, WFT, Triple D, and Marth?/Lucina. Why Ike and Marth are at the bottom? I have no idea.
Ike has so much trouble with camping, though :(.
 

Soul.

 
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Marth would be 100 times better if he had short hop double fair. nope he doesn't have it
therefore his destination is low tier. :troll:

Oh lol character competitive thread is talking about Pikachu and I'm doing nothing but like posts.
 

Furret

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Lavani

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ghhhh reddit lists

if we're using characters from B- and under on that:

:4tlink::4wario2::4miibrawl::4dk::4metaknight::4myfriends::4charizard::4miigun:
 

Ffamran

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Ike has so much trouble with camping, though :(.
So does Ganondorf, but at least Ike moves faster.

Oh, right.

I definitely can't see Ike being on the lower end.
It's like people never saw a competent Ike before. Ryo's Ike vs. StaticManny's Sonic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mw66-t_1spk.

Anyway, I love this one: Ryo's Link and Ike vs. Hi-Hatz's Ganondorf: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2y8R9GQqYY. So, much testosterone! @Lozjam.
 

CyberHyperPhoenix

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S.F.L.R_9

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Idk what you guys are talking about. The obvious S (sass) tier belongs to Princess Zorldo. She has so much attitude she causes her opponents to automatically SD. Every move from her is a swift, elegant KO punch. Din's Fire is unDIable and KO's at 0%. How could anyone overlook this?

Watch out Boozelina and Zero Skill Spamus, soon Zelda and Sheik are going to being the dominant top tier girl(s).
I'd be concerned if anyone took this post seriously
 
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