Guide Zelda Social: But also the FE Heroes Internet Cafe

[evmaxy54]

I know you've been banished now sis but this entire post is making me die of laughter

It's one of two home bases for the ZELDA Cultists

Discord is the other one


I couldn't agree more. I can't wait until someone "discovers" the falling Nair combos next...

WHAT

FALLING NAIR COMBOS INTO STUFF

 

[KlicKlac]

I'm lowkey salty at all the people's interest in Zelda now. They're finding "new things" in the game that we've been doing since the beginning and taking credit for it. I hate people.

I absolutely agree with you 100%. Zelda's kit really did not change THAT much after the patch. For the most part, her speed, hitboxes, and frame data are the same (with the exceptions being the few things that were adjusted). People are discovering stuff like the dthrow to upair KO combo that has already existed forever now. I saw that zelda "hoo hah" video that is on top in the reddit smashbros sub, and I was excited at first. But was disappointed when the vid was something I have already been doing all the time.

 

[McKnightlíght]

I hope someone rediscovers that using your invulnerability on respawn is the best time to use Zelda's best combo FW>SD

 

[Zolda]

That video showcasing d throw -> u air is nothing new. We've always been able to do that. All that video will do now is maybe teach people to learn how to DI d throw

Here's the actual hoo hah.

Zelda's real hoo hah is actually done by reading DI behind us (like anyone who actually knows how to play against her will do) and doing double jump > b air.

This'll kill near the ledge and is way more reliable than d throw u air, but harder to pull off (it's srsly like frame perfect.)
What's awesome about d throw > b air is that its kill percent generally maxes out at 68% and works on most high tiers. It also works out of d throw even before then, but just for damage. What's even better is that they're still DI'ing backwards when it hits them, which doesn't help their case at all. I've even done this to Zylach's Corrin offline.

In the end if you nail anyone with d throw > u air, chances are you're playing someone who's inexperienced or just a moron

 

[Rickster]

I hope someone rediscovers that using your invulnerability on respawn is the best time to use Zelda's best combo FW>SD

I've seen Fairess FW on respawn, use the last few invincibility frames to avoid being punished, then Elevator them for their "whiffed" grab.

It's stupid and hilarious when it works

 

[Lavani]

omg guys zelda can combo fastfall nair into farororae's wind now this character is so good omg

 

[Darklink401]

That video showcasing d throw -> u air is nothing new. We've always been able to do that. All that video will do now is maybe teach people to learn how to DI d throw

Here's the actual hoo hah.

Zelda's real hoo hah is actually done by reading DI behind us (like anyone who actually knows how to play against her will do) and doing double jump > b air.

This'll kill near the ledge and is way more reliable than d throw u air, but harder to pull off (it's srsly like frame perfect.)
What's awesome about d throw > b air is that its kill percent generally maxes out at 68% and works on most high tiers. It also works out of d throw even before then, but just for damage. What's even better is that they're still DI'ing backwards when it hits them, which doesn't help their case at all. I've even done this to Zylach's Corrin offline.

In the end if you nail anyone with d throw > u air, chances are you're playing someone who's inexperienced or just a moron

But it's a confirm, at least on ZSS, regardless of DI or if they try to airdodge :o

Tight window, but still, I don't see why they'd have to be inexperienced or a moron to fall for an actual guaranteed combo xD

 

[Zolda]

But it's a confirm, at least on ZSS, regardless of DI or if they try to airdodge :o

Tight window, but still, I don't see why they'd have to be inexperienced or a moron to fall for an actual guaranteed combo xD

Because
1. They die to it because they fail at DI'ing.
2. They never learn from their mistake.

Basically, they keep on getting hit by something easy to avoid.

 

[Darklink401]

Because
1. They die to it because they fail at DI'ing.
2. They never learn from their mistake.

Basically, they keep on getting hit by something easy to avoid.

But if it can get you even if you DI away at mash airdodge, how is it easy to avoid? xD

 

[Zolda]

But if it can get you even if you DI away at mash airdodge, how is it easy to avoid? xD

LOL people who air dodge out of it are even worse. Everyone should know all you need to do to escape Zelda's d throw combos is DI backwards and jump out at high percents. Zelda has no follow ups from there. What's neat about this is that Sheik got the exact same treatment on her combo throw with this patch.

 

[Furret]

omg guys zelda can combo fastfall nair into farororae's wind now this character is so good omg

hey I've got minor corrections for Zelda/Samus that aren't reported in patch notes yet.
Where the hell do I report them?

 

[VPTurnip]

0-30% is so fun. Nice to be able to rack up some real damage now. <3

 

[Darklink401]

LOL people who air dodge out of it are even worse. Everyone should know all you need to do to escape Zelda's d throw combos is DI backwards and jump out at high percents. Zelda has no follow ups from there. What's neat about this is that Sheik got the exact same treatment on her combo throw with this patch.

THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYIN BRAH. I couldn't airdodge or jump, even when DIing away. lol XD

 

[Lavani]

hey I've got minor corrections for Zelda/Samus that aren't reported in patch notes yet.
Where the hell do I report them?

I'd recommend tagging Liberation about it in the patch discussion thread.

 

[Shrokatii]

All I know is up b combos into itself now might be placebo

 

[Furret]

I'd recommend tagging Liberation about it in the patch discussion thread.

alright i might take that advice in a bit

 

[KlicKlac]

I've seen Fairess FW on respawn, use the last few invincibility frames to avoid being punished, then Elevator them for their "whiffed" grab.

It's stupid and hilarious when it works

I love teleporting from the recovery platform right on opponents who stand near the ledge. It is hilarious how often this works on opponents who don't know the zelda matchup. And once they figure this out and start shielding, sometimes they try to attack zelda while she is still invulnerable, and I can punish this with nayru's love.

 

[Furret]

@BJN39 look how much we can actually talk about zelda
It's like we are on the Zelda boards or something

 

[McKnightlíght]

This makes me uncomfortable.

 

[KlicKlac]

OMG everyone, I just fought a sonic main and I am so surprised how much the buff on nayru's love helps out this matchup. I used to get DESTROYED by sonic mains. The combination of sonic's high speed with zelda's poor speed and lag made any sonic main run circles around zelda.

Now with the nayru's love buff making her invulnerability frames overlap the hitbox frames, nayru's love is a very good tool to stop sonic's constant spindashes! Before, sonic's spindashes would have no problem beating out nayru's love, especially with that one frame (frame 12) where the invulnerability ends, but the nayru's hitbox hasn't started yet. But now it's sooo much easier to halt the spindashes in their tracks by timing your nayru's love right before sonic hits you.

I also found out that with the reduced lag on ftilt, it's much easier to shield a spindash and punish with a ftilt before sonic can react.

This gives me hope for zelda's neutral game.

 

[Janet_]

Hi everyone! I have been lurking here for a few weeks and I just want to say how much happiness it brings me to know find this community! I just recently started playing Sm4sh competitively in the Baltimore area, and at my first friendly tournament ever I quickly realized not only how rare it is to see a Zelda main, but also how satisfying it is show Zelda non-believers and straight up haters what she can do!

*cue Twilight Princess Symphonic Movement*

I've been playing with Zelda literally since I was 4 years old when I first played Melee with my cousins, and now I'm ready to join this group of Zelda aficionados and scholars and make her power known!

*crescendo and release*

 

[Lorde]

Sorry to burst your bubble, but Zelda's power will never be known because it's nonexistent

 

[McKnightlíght]

Who is Zelda? I'm just here to get finger banged by Fujin.

 

[Lil Puddin]

I love Fates so much

ihateyouihateyouihateyouiloveyouihateyou

Which could also double as a Selena quote.

 

[katastrophic]

Zelda is a real character

 

[Lord Renning]

OMG everyone, I just fought a sonic main and I am so surprised how much the buff on nayru's love helps out this matchup. I used to get DESTROYED by sonic mains. The combination of sonic's high speed with zelda's poor speed and lag made any sonic main run circles around zelda.

Now with the nayru's love buff making her invulnerability frames overlap the hitbox frames, nayru's love is a very good tool to stop sonic's constant spindashes! Before, sonic's spindashes would have no problem beating out nayru's love, especially with that one frame (frame 12) where the invulnerability ends, but the nayru's hitbox hasn't started yet. But now it's sooo much easier to halt the spindashes in their tracks by timing your nayru's love right before sonic hits you.

I also found out that with the reduced lag on ftilt, it's much easier to shield a spindash and punish with a ftilt before sonic can react.

This gives me hope for zelda's neutral game.

Nayru's Love was supposed to be her all-in-one defence against projectiles, jump in, dash attacks, and that guy who hangs around you rolling and spot dodging. Or the move you use when you both end up facing away from each other. Now it does that, so our opponent has to think about how and when to approach, and how safe it is to hang around us. With love jump, we can even go into them with Nayru's love and beat out many options. Mixing up Nayru's approach with nair or empty hops, or even the occasional lightening kick, and our neutral game is much improved. AKA it exists.

We can also run up and love, which mean opposing us with attacks is a poor option. This means that the opponent will want to block or roll or jump or run. Rolls can be punished with a dash attack which leads to a grab or combo, and blocking can be punished by grabs. But with a better grab and a much improved 50-50 kill throw, blocking isn't something they're okay risking. Jumps can be punished with a falling Nair into a combo, or a jumping Nayru's love. F-tilts and jabs and a good grab on the ground mean that we can play our normal back and forth neutral game, where we dash around just outside their range, and they can't simply run up and hit us to beat all our options.

tl;dr no one needed to give Zelda any respect, so we had no neutral game. R-E-S-P-E-C-T is demanded now, so we have a neutral game.

 

[KlicKlac]

Nayru's Love was supposed to be her all-in-one defence against projectiles, jump in, dash attacks, and that guy who hangs around you rolling and spot dodging. Or the move you use when you both end up facing away from each other. Now it does that, so our opponent has to think about how and when to approach, and how safe it is to hang around us. With love jump, we can even go into them with Nayru's love and beat out many options. Mixing up Nayru's approach with nair or empty hops, or even the occasional lightening kick, and our neutral game is much improved. AKA it exists.

We can also run up and love, which mean opposing us with attacks is a poor option. This means that the opponent will want to block or roll or jump or run. Rolls can be punished with a dash attack which leads to a grab or combo, and blocking can be punished by grabs. But with a better grab and a much improved 50-50 kill throw, blocking isn't something they're okay risking. Jumps can be punished with a falling Nair into a combo, or a jumping Nayru's love. F-tilts and jabs and a good grab on the ground mean that we can play our normal back and forth neutral game, where we dash around just outside their range, and they can't simply run up and hit us to beat all our options.

tl;dr no one needed to give Zelda any respect, so we had no neutral game. R-E-S-P-E-C-T is demanded now, so we have a neutral game.

Agreed! How effective to you find love jumping to be? I never practiced that.

 

[Furret]

Agreed! How effective to you find love jumping to be? I never practiced that.

it's not (my opinion)

 

[Macchiato]

Agreed! How effective to you find love jumping to be? I never practiced that.

I think it's very useful and incredibly underused

 

[KlicKlac]

Has anyone found new tricks with jab? I still have trouble implementing jab into my game. Still is a bad frame 11 hitbox.

 

[Furret]

Has anyone found new tricks with jab? I still have trouble implementing jab into my game. Still is a bad frame 11 hitbox.

new tricks? what new tricks would there be with a move that just does more damage with KB compensations in funny ways
Just use it like:

• for block strings, being on of Zelda's few moves that actually is safe
• fish out your opponents approaches, safe on whiff, prop always will be
• combos, low % should still get you dash attacks and grabs following it

And I'd take jab over Ftilt any day, even when improved Ftilt doesn't offer much

 

[Lord Renning]

Agreed! How effective to you find love jumping to be? I never practiced that.

It used to kind of suck because it traded all the time (story of Nayru's love-life), instead of keeping you safe and countering. Now it should be great, because you can jump into people spamming huge multi-hit boxes while being invulnerable, and you can use it to reset neutral after getting launched, or stuffing out attempts at strings. Both of those are good, because we're petite.

 

[KlicKlac]

new tricks? what new tricks would there be with a move that just does more damage with KB compensations in funny ways
Just use it like:

• for block strings, being on of Zelda's few moves that actually is safe
• fish out your opponents approaches, safe on whiff, prop always will be
• combos, low % should still get you dash attacks and grabs following it

And I'd take jab over Ftilt any day, even when improved Ftilt doesn't offer much

I'm going to keep trying to jab my opponents until I discover something, anything! lol

 

[Furret]

I'm going to keep trying to jab my opponents until I discover something, anything! lol

oh I almost forgot Jab is a nice set up for Farore's at mid percents, jab causes tumble forcing your opponent to tech you can cover options using farores

 

[Jaguar360]

new tricks? what new tricks would there be with a move that just does more damage with KB compensations in funny ways
Just use it like:

• for block strings, being on of Zelda's few moves that actually is safe
• fish out your opponents approaches, safe on whiff, prop always will be
• combos, low % should still get you dash attacks and grabs following it

And I'd take jab over Ftilt any day, even when improved Ftilt doesn't offer much

Improved f-tilt kills still and can be done out of a run via pivot though. Jab's obviously better in neutral and safer.

 

[KlicKlac]

oh I almost forgot Jab is a nice set up for Farore's at mid percents, jab causes tumble forcing your opponent to tech you can cover options using farores

Yep! I'm well aware of this. I love going for jabs into farore's wind! Nayru's love at mid percentages can also lead into a farore's snipe, if the opponent is foolish enough not to DI away.

I think this works the best on fast fallers like sheik.


And I'm going to see if our new jab can better lead into jab locks or lighting kicks now.

 

[Lord Renning]

Our jab beats out most every jab and many tilts in the game by merit of being multi-hit and ranged. Characters like Mario and Falco and Fox like to use their jabs when characters get close, because it stops approach, moves them forward, and clanks until they win. We can stand still and tap A until they take 11%, and then gets a follow up with a dash attack or grab to down thrown to up air or a sweet spotted back air. Jab to down throw to back air does 29%. That's a lot of punishment for deciding to contest our jab spacing.

 

[Kofu]

When I heard that Zelda's NAir got buffed to do 15%, my initial thought was "wow, that's stupid." Then I remembered my main's NAir does 17% without worry to where the attack is hitting.

I think Zelda's combos better than Game & Watch's though.

 

[Janet_]

can someone tell me what this rando is talking about, if anything? I think the tech he's referring to happens right after 2:38 but I don't see anything special about using nayru's to block the bomb's damage?

 

[KlicKlac]

can someone tell me what this rando is talking about, if anything? I think the tech he's referring to happens right after 2:38 but I don't see anything special about using nayru's to block the bomb's damage?

Unfortunately, I doubt that is easily repeatable. Looks like some jank momentum clash thing.