Guide Zelda Social: But also the FE Heroes Internet Cafe

[Gay Ginger]

Zelda has a huge advantage over most in the MU because pretty much everything we do is multihit, so focus punch is trash pretty useless.

Ryu is one of my favorite high(?) tier MUs. He's very easily juggled and outside of shifting momentum with Focus punch, VERY predictable. Ryu basically spends the entire match fishing for dtilt/jab juggles and the SHOAR U KIN.

He also has awful grabs with few follow ups (similar to Lmac, most Ryus almost never try to grab unless you are shield camping to the next dimension) so you know if he's coming at you it's going to be an attack.

Spacing with brev phantoms is super effective against Ryu.

And the juggling. He's one of the few people that we can get a free 50% off on at the initial stock. Dtilt/dtilt/jab/grab/dthrow then either nair or utilt spam if he's going to airdodge.

We also have MAASSSIIIVEE range over him. Jab, fsmash, nair, phantom, dash attack, pretty much everything we do will beat out Ryu's attacks.

MU is definitely reliant on spacing at higher levels, but we do have an advantage in that department.

Also if we reflect HAH DOH KEN he can't really punish us (unless it's point blank. which. why?), and it takes away a mix up/damage follow up option from him.

Maybe I just played the match wrong, since it was my first time facing someone who knew what they were doing with him.

I can't help but feel that you're overstating Zelda's strengths in the MU, though. His moves are so fast and do a lot of damage, and he has good combos and KO set-ups (unless I was DI'ing wrong out of inexperience in the MU -- either way, he has better KO set-ups than Zelda, whose set-ups are pretty poor).

Zelda is predictable, too, since she has limited options in neutral. But she doesn't have the ability to shift her momentum through Focus Punch canceling like Ryu does.

What score would you give the MU? (Don't say in Zelda's favor because it most definitely is not).

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

Someone at my local during my first few appearances commented that Zelda mains only play to be 'special snowflakes' and 'want default respect' for 'maining trash.'

I meekly said that I just always liked Zelda and when I was a wee lad I always wanted to play as her and thought playing as the princesses you were always saving was really cool.

The poor kid had no idea anyone there actual mained Zelda (since I was new after all) and nearly broke his neck stuttering trying to apologize.

Gotta send your enemies on tilt before you even fight 'em


Double post fix:



Zelda has a huge advantage over most in the MU because pretty much everything we do is multihit, so focus punch is trash pretty useless.

Ryu is one of my favorite high(?) tier MUs. He's very easily juggled and outside of shifting momentum with Focus punch, VERY predictable. Ryu basically spends the entire match fishing for dtilt/jab juggles and the SHOAR U KIN.

He also has awful grabs with few follow ups (similar to Lmac, most Ryus almost never try to grab unless you are shield camping to the next dimension) so you know if he's coming at you it's going to be an attack.

Spacing with brev phantoms is super effective against Ryu.

And the juggling. He's one of the few people that we can get a free 50% off on at the initial stock. Dtilt/dtilt/jab/grab/dthrow then either nair or utilt spam if he's going to airdodge.

We also have MAASSSIIIVEE range over him. Jab, fsmash, nair, phantom, dash attack, pretty much everything we do will beat out Ryu's attacks.

MU is definitely reliant on spacing at higher levels, but we do have an advantage in that department.

Also if we reflect HAH DOH KEN he can't really punish us (unless it's point blank. which. why?), and it takes away a mix up/damage follow up option from him.

Nah, FA is one of Ryu's most useful tools in any MU because of dat stage movement.

Plus, Ryu can just camp it out and wait for you to approach or make you approach.

Good luck on the shield punishing his aerials as well

Oh btw, if you decide to reflect Hadoukens, don't be surprised if you end up eating a Dair, an up tilt or two and a True Srk

 

[KarmaCastle]

Maybe I just played the match wrong, since it was my first time facing someone who knew what they were doing with him.

I can't help but feel that you're overstating Zelda's strengths in the MU, though. His moves are so fast and do a lot of damage, and he has good combos and KO set-ups (unless I was DI'ing wrong out of inexperience in the MU -- either way, he has better KO set-ups than Zelda, whose set-ups are pretty poor).

Zelda is predictable, too, since she has limited options in neutral. But she doesn't have the ability to shift her momentum through Focus Punch canceling like Ryu does.

What score would you give the MU? (Don't say in Zelda's favor because it most definitely is not).

50/50 honestly.

He does hit hard and fast with great KO set ups, and his gimmick/advantage is basically as one streamer said, "his entire body is just a hitbox on everything he does." But that also limits him because he has VERY little range, I want to say he has the lowest in the game (taking all jab/tilt/aerials into consideration) but I could be very wrong. Or close.

Zelda can challenge almost everything Ryu does with our own attack safely ASSUMING we're spacing: nair/fair/bair for all his aerials, jab/ftilt/fsmash on the ground. Phantom for both. Dtilt/dsmash can also outspace him but are definitely riskier to do so with.

Phantom seriously messes Ryu up. Unlike Captain Dash Grab, his range is so poor we won't get punished for it when he charges at you. He won't hit or dash through it (most of the time) unlike a lot of the cast.

Also given his medium movespeed, he can't punish us for Dins camping as much as someone like ZSS or Captain Dash Attack.

And the KO setups are also very predictable, you can tell when Ryu starts fishing for tilts into SHOARUKEN and punish them for it.

Nah, FA is one of Ryu's most useful tools in any MU because of dat stage movement.

Plus, Ryu can just camp it out and wait for you to approach or make you approach.

Good luck on the shield punishing his aerials as well

Oh btw, if you decide to reflect Hadoukens, don't be surprised if you end up eating a Dair, an up tilt or two and a True Srk

Yea, I acknowledged the movement bonus for sure which is what keeps him from being a feature on Reading Rainbow.

I know Zelda's camp game is garbage but I don't think Ryu can force an approach with hadouken alone, especially if we play the keep-away waiting game and abuse phantom.

Zelda can't really punish OOS without pshielding anyways against anyone

And I don't think he can punish a reflect unless it was a mix up of the century and he was baiting it out from near-point blank (like a fourth of the stage away) in which case the Zelda player would adjust too.

 

[Gay Ginger]

50/50 honestly.

He does hit hard and fast with great KO set ups, and his gimmick/advantage is basically as one streamer said, "his entire body is just a hitbox on everything he does." But that also limits him because he has VERY little range, I want to say he has the lowest in the game (taking all jab/tilt/aerials into consideration) but I could be very wrong. Or close.

Zelda can challenge almost everything Ryu does with our own attack safely ASSUMING we're spacing: nair/fair/bair for all his aerials, jab/ftilt/fsmash on the ground. Phantom for both. Dtilt/dsmash can also outspace him but are definitely riskier to do so with.

Phantom seriously messes Ryu up. Unlike Captain Dash Grab, his range is so poor we won't get punished for it when he charges at you. He won't hit or dash through it (most of the time) unlike a lot of the cast.

Also given his medium movespeed, he can't punish us for Dins camping as much as someone like ZSS or Captain Dash Attack.

And the KO setups are also very predictable, you can tell when Ryu starts fishing for tilts into SHOARUKEN and punish them for it.

Maybe I'll try to play some matches against some from the Ryu boards to get more experience and evaluate the match-up.

My problem with Zelda keeping him out though is that it seems to me that Ryu gets a lot more out of reading and spacing correctly than Zelda does by reading and keeping him out. We can can keep him out and stop a few approaches, but I feel like he can reverse that lead easily by getting in because his attacks and combos do so much damage.

I'll try to use Phantom more.

The last part about KO set-ups can be said for almost anyone though if a player starts fishing for KOs. The problems start when the player is patient and doesn't fish that often.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

50/50 honestly.

He does hit hard and fast with great KO set ups, and his gimmick/advantage is basically as one streamer said, "his entire body is just a hitbox on everything he does." But that also limits him because he has VERY little range, I want to say he has the lowest in the game (taking all jab/tilt/aerials into consideration) but I could be very wrong. Or close.

Zelda can challenge almost everything Ryu does with our own attack safely ASSUMING we're spacing: nair/fair/bair for all his aerials, jab/ftilt/fsmash on the ground. Phantom for both. Dtilt/dsmash can also outspace him but are definitely riskier to do so with.

Phantom seriously messes Ryu up. Unlike Captain Dash Grab, his range is so poor we won't get punished for it when he charges at you. He won't hit or dash through it (most of the time) unlike a lot of the cast.

Also given his medium movespeed, he can't punish us for Dins camping as much as someone like ZSS or Captain Dash Attack.

And the KO setups are also very predictable, you can tell when Ryu starts fishing for tilts into SHOARUKEN and punish them for it.



Yea, I acknowledged the movement bonus for sure which is what keeps him from being a feature on Reading Rainbow.

I know Zelda's camp game is garbage but I don't think Ryu can force an approach with hadouken alone, especially if we play the keep-away waiting game and abuse phantom.

Zelda can't really punish OOS without pshielding anyways against anyone

And I don't think he can punish a reflect unless it was a mix up of the century and he was baiting it out from near-point blank (like a fourth of the stage away) in which case the Zelda player would adjust too.

True on the first point.

On the second one, iirc, 2 of his aerials are still +3 (or +4) on powershield. Have to check on that tho.

Thirdly, are you sure? If a Ryu at mid range threw out a hadouken and Zelda reflected it with Neutral B, I'm pretty sure he can still get in a FF Dair at the least...

 

[Latte]

tbh I was just browsing some of the older pages like when @Reserved and @Berserker. talked about 6 things about Lavani . I thought that you never come here anymore, so I just liked it for the heck of it lol

GORL, I've been good lol As you can tell, activity around here has died down a bit. I'm happy because I don't have to read ten pages every couple of hours, but I'm sad that I don't have to read ten pages every couple of hours. Where' ve you been all this time?

Yeah, I noticed that I haven't seen some of the old Zelda sistren I knew back in the day. Hopefully they'll come back to visit someday

I've p much just been wasting my time on the internet while I've been gone. I've also been trying to find a job, but no luck there so far.

 

[Rizen]

IMO Link has a slight advantage vs Zelda. If Link knows the MU he can avoid Zelda's Farow's sniping. Zelda does have a strangely good anti-camping game with Phantom, her reflector, Farow's and Din's but she doesn't out camp Link either. Link can gain some camping ability back by choosing a stage with platforms.
I feel like Link controls the match but Zelda can really take advantage of mistakes. But with that said, Link still has to over commit or mess up for that to happen so the MU's slightly in Link's favor.

Gale Boomerang can cheese~

Earlier tonight I accidentally gimped DK by making him recover him over BF or risk being Dair-ed and the wind came back and carried him all the way off the other ledge

I'll wifi again if anyone wants? I was playing better but still SDing too much earlier so I still have rust to shake off.

 

[KarmaCastle]

True on the first point.

On the second one, iirc, 2 of his aerials are still +3 (or +4) on powershield. Have to check on that tho.

Thirdly, are you sure? If a Ryu at mid range threw out a hadouken and Zelda reflected it with Neutral B, I'm pretty sure he can still get in a FF Dair at the least...

Mostly the pshield comment was a salty joke because yippee for shield nerf giving low tiers less options :secretzpop:

I guess we could test it, but that'd be something the Zelda player would instantly adapt to. Mostly I think the reflect wins out because in the amount of time you'd have to react (probably jumping in the air as the projectile is about to hit Zelda) NL would probably still be active by the time you got to her. You'd have to get a frame perfect punish; the frames between when the last shard is flung out, and right before the end lag.

Doable though, but I personally still consider it a positive on Zelda's side of the MU.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

I'd say get @Emblem Lord to do Ryu and Zelda MU testing with, since well... my location speaks for itself lol

 

[KarmaCastle]

Since @Cosmo! is being tagged like a million times now, I might as well ask. Is there some super secret Zelda strat that I need to know about? Like an effective way to land or something?

Just a heads up gorls, she goes by Narcissa now.

I wasn't going to say anything but since you all tagged her 1000 times >.>

 

[Rizen]

My lights have flickered a few times. If I suddenly disappear from the internet it's because the snow knocked my power out.

 

[KarmaCastle]

Shoutouts to Nintendo actually making TOO many tournament modes to the point of being so scattered that nobody is playing Tourney mode after 5pm.

How you go from 45m queue times to having too many and 0 queues at all.

#Justnintendothings

 

[Mythra]

*crashes outta nowhere*

@TheEdgyOne if I remember correctly you wanted a prank, so now that my previous ones expired I asked the magenta for you

I should visit here more often, considering Im starting to play Smash again... I struggle a lot to connect a Lightning Kick now plz help

 

[Furret]

Linkle? Cute?

What are you gorls talking about?

lol navi mustache

... I have no idea how I got here.

same here

 

[Rizen]

I fell through a wardrobe and ended up here.

 

[jahkzheng]

IMO Link has a slight advantage vs Zelda. If Link knows the MU he can avoid Zelda's Farow's sniping. Zelda does have a strangely good anti-camping game with Phantom, her reflector, Farow's and Din's but she doesn't out camp Link either. Link can gain some camping ability back by choosing a stage with platforms.
I feel like Link controls the match but Zelda can really take advantage of mistakes. But with that said, Link still has to over commit or mess up for that to happen so the MU's slightly in Link's favor.

Earlier tonight I accidentally gimped DK by making him recover him over BF or risk being Dair-ed and the wind came back and carried him all the way off the other ledge

I'll wifi again if anyone wants? I was playing better but still SDing too much earlier so I still have rust to shake off.

DK "gimps" reminds me of a few Zelda replays I wanted to upload. I have a few pretty lucky Zelda matches where I came back from far behind. One was against a DK and it was cheesy~

 

[Gay Ginger]

Shoutouts to Nintendo actually making TOO many tournament modes to the point of being so scattered that nobody is playing Tourney mode after 5pm.

How you go from 45m queue times to having too many and 0 queues at all.

#Justnintendothings

I totally forgot that they made a tournament mode!

(probably because at first it was so crowded you couldn't actually join a 1v1 FG-style tournament unless you waited 40+ minutes, so I just gave up trying)

 

[KarmaCastle]

I just got a scoop FW KO.

Someone alert the authorities.

Spoiler: Explanation of SCOOP FW

When you fw on someone waaay below you but it knocks them up anyways and fw2 connects

Edit:

Oooh, spicy.

Just killed Puff with phantom 3 while she was clinging onto the ledge.

 

[TTTTTsd]

I think Ryu beats Zelda and it's solely because his punishes are more rewarding and his spacing game is way, WAY safer for said reward. Ryu is actually REALLY dumb in this game. Zelda has interesting options vs. him but she's kind of frail and with his silly reward for fundamentally spacing in the same way except having less lag on like everything, I can't help but find it to be a MU where Ryu wins when played properly.

That's not to say Zelda can't outplay him, it's a pretty doable matchup because of how they interact and how Ryu is, but his reward is WAY greater.

 

[KarmaCastle]

I think everyone beats Zelda and it's solely because their punishes are more rewarding and their spacing game is way, WAY safer for said reward. The rest of the cast is actually REALLY dumb in this game. Zelda has interesting options vs. them but she's kind of frail and with their silly reward for fundamentally spacing in the same way except having less lag on like everything, I can't help but find it to be a MU where Zelda loses when played at all.

That's not to say Zelda can't outplay them, most are pretty doable matchups because of how they interact and how the cast is, but everyone's reward is WAY greater.

Ftfy cutie

 

[TTTTTsd]

Ftfy cutie

I <3 this social thread sometimes. Y'all are cuties. I'll probably never leave this social ROFL.

 

[Cress!]

It's midnight and I'm playing Theatrhyrhm.
But I'm not just simply playing Theatrhythm! I'm shoving glittery cards into character's faces so that their stats increase because having a high strength stat is important in a music game!
tbh this is usually what I do midnight every night, tonight just happens to be Theatrhythm.

 

[Lavani]

I needed a break from Sm4sh so I decided to try to learn to speedrun Plague of Shadows

My first attempt was somehow fast enough for the speedrun achievement (1:22:xx) despite like, 40+ deaths lol

Then attempt #2 was going amazingly until I choked hard on Propeller Knight's stage and I've just been dying there repeatedly for like an hour because trying to go fast + wind gusts + Plague Knight physics are a horrendous mix

Then I finished attempt #3 a few minutes ago:

(it's still pretty bad I think, but I'm happy to have cut the 1 hour just 3 attempts in)

 

[TTTTTsd]

I needed a break from Sm4sh so I decided to try to learn to speedrun Plague of Shadows

My first attempt was somehow fast enough for the speedrun achievement (1:22:xx) despite like, 40+ deaths lol

Then attempt #2 was going amazingly until I choked hard on Propeller Knight's stage and I've just been dying there repeatedly for like an hour because trying to go fast + wind gusts + Plague Knight physics are a horrendous mix

Then I finished attempt #3 a few minutes ago:

(it's still pretty bad I think, but I'm happy to have cut the 1 hour just 3 attempts in)

I think Propeller Knight is just an AWFUL boss to fight with Plague Knight too. Who else was really bad for him.....I think it was like....I forget. Whatevs, Propeller Knight was just easily the worst.

 

[Lavani]

I think Propeller Knight is just an AWFUL boss to fight with Plague Knight too. Who else was really bad for him.....I think it was like....I forget. Whatevs, Propeller Knight was just easily the worst.

Propeller was by far and away the worst until I realized

Spoiler: actual spoilers fullmoon don't click

the Staff of Striking lets you burst down the rest of his HP pretty quickly after he flies and calls in the air strike. After I realized that he became trivial-but-still-hard-to-kill-quickly, Shovel Knight's the boss I hate the most now because you can't damage him as quickly due to i-frames on hit and his love for shoveling your bombs back at you and the goddamn Phase Locket who thought that was a good idea

 

[Rizen]

Lavani Great work

Is Plague Knight DLC for the Wii U version? (Shouldn't he be named 'Explode Knight' or how about 'Dynoknight'? What's he have to do with the plague?)

I beat the game on hard with Shovel Knight. Propeller Knight is a pain because the wind and instant death pits.

 

[TTTTTsd]

Propeller was by far and away the worst until I realized

Spoiler: actual spoilers fullmoon don't click

the Staff of Striking lets you burst down the rest of his HP pretty quickly after he flies and calls in the air strike. After I realized that he became trivial-but-still-hard-to-kill-quickly, Shovel Knight's the boss I hate the most now because you can't damage him as quickly due to i-frames on hit and his love for shoveling your bombs back at you and the goddamn Phase Locket who thought that was a good idea

I never thought of that but I STILL think Propeller is the worst espec. if you run out of magic or mess up. GOD HE'S SUCH A **** WITH PLAGUE KNIGHT.

Shovel Knight is just annoying, how fitting. Not really that bad tho.

 

[Lavani]

(Shouldn't he be named 'Explode Knight' or how about 'Dynoknight'? What's he have to do with the plague?)

That's about it.

Is Plague Knight DLC for the Wii U version?

I beat the game on hard with Shovel Knight. Propeller Knight is a pain because the wind and instant death pits.

Should be free DLC on every version, as far as I know.

I haven't tried NG+ yet so I'm not sure what to expect from hard mode. Might check that out later tonight or possibly tomorrow. I think I'll probably only do it as Plague though, he's so much more fun than Shovel to me and I don't think I can go back.

I never thought of that but I STILL think Propeller is the worst espec. if you run out of magic or mess up. GOD HE'S SUCH A **** WITH PLAGUE KNIGHT.

Shovel Knight is just annoying, how fitting. Not really that bad tho.

idk Plague's magic regens at least, even screwing up isn't that bad

If you didn't know, you get i-frames when you use Plague's burst. That helped me out a ton.

 

[evmaxy54]

tbh I don't care about being a low-tier hero. There's just something about being so bad that I love playing as her. It also helps that I placed 4th in a local tourney with her :^)
I'm moving on up evmaxy54 !!

Good **** gurl.

Have you played the ICs MU yet? Because you need to, it's great bant =P

 

[EODM07]

Morning girls, how's everyone doing?

Just had my breakfast, and might put in some practice on Smash today. Since I haven't played in a few days. :V (I'll need to put more effort into my Lucina.)

Spoiler: Yuri pic of the day~

Something for Furret too.

Spoiler

 

[JigglyZelda003]

I just fought a Ryu on FG that knew what he was doing.

What is Zelda supposed to do against him?

You have to win in footsies. If your footsie game is weak your not beating Ryu.

Looking over the other gurls post I do agree with Karma that Zelda can box out Ryu with her hitboxes and is roughly immune to FA hits but that just aids her in not being trampled.

Ryu does alot of damage so sure we can get a good 50% lead early but honestly so can he off landing a good hit and I don't think Zelda is immune to Ryu combos. Ryu also might not have a sword but i think if he had any more range with his speed and priority he'd need to be banned.

Light Hadoken/Shakunetsu Ryu can almost run behind so Zelda has to be mindful of the speeds of she's going to reflect or she might eat a flying Fair/Dair/Nair > Ryu nonsense. Hadoken is not a camping tool and is only bad if its being treated as such when Ryu doesn't have a lead. If he does get a lead its at best an annoyance but not terrible.

I don't think Dins is good for anything other than Ryu is at the blastzone trying to Tatsu. On stage unless your full screen Ryu can run into Tatsu which has projectile invincibility when it starts and just bullrush into Zeldas face if she's using Dins anywhere else except across the stage or on a platform.

Ryu isn't bad but you have to keep it neutral and out play him if he knows what he's doing he can be annoying.


Link is dumb /topic Rizen lol

 

[Locke 06]

Hi gorls. Not gonna 400 messages I missed last week. Hawaii is a beautiful place.

Speedruns are coo.

Cloud is an amazing dlc inclusion. On that final fantasy hype train.

 

[r_greening1]

Good **** gurl.

Have you played the ICs MU yet? Because you need to, it's great bant =P

No, not with Zelda at least. My friend stopped playing them and just focused on Falcon by the time I started playing Zelda seriously.
I heard the MU is decent though :^)

 

[evmaxy54]

No, not with Zelda at least. My friend stopped playing them and just focused on Falcon by the time I started playing Zelda seriously.
I heard the MU is decent though :^)

It is

Zelda can separate & kill Nana p easily & the fact that their only approach is WD makes it p gud for her (just time the kick when they go in = EZ MONAY). Fsmash on shield is p decent as well because 2 characters = more shield stun & hit lag

Desynced projectiles are supposed to be annoying tho.

I must add, FH LKs into Wavelands are sexy as ****

 

[Furret]

melee wisdom

I needed a break from Sm4sh so I decided to try to learn to speedrun Plague of Shadows

I was thinking about learning Sonic lost world for some fun

Phase Locket who thought that was a good idea

from like a non speed stand point, phase locket is stupid, you can beat every boss in the game with it no prob

Something for Furret too.

Spoiler

undefined

Hi gorls. Not gonna 400 messages I missed last week. Hawaii is a beautiful place.

Speedruns are coo.

Cloud is an amazing dlc inclusion. On that final fantasy hype train.

Least its better then agnes
easily the worst character from bravely grinding till the end of time

 

[EODM07]

View attachment 83441

Glad you like it.

 

[Furret]

Glad you like it.

 

[TTTTTsd]

FYI the reason Ryu wins (or at worst barely loses) against characters that can normally space him out is because his reward is absurd and probably some of the best reward and damage per hit in the game. It is arguably comparable to Ganon (maybe not quite that good but I think sometimes it's even BETTER) except Ryu has a neutral and can convert off of Frame 2 moves to kill you immediately and is also heavy.

Ryu is probably the pinnacle of how a heavy in Smash Bros can ACTUALLY work and be top level because rather than focusing on solely a ridiculous punish game, he has a ridiculous punish game but a solid neutral, good movement, and he shifts momentum VERY easily. Your % lead against Ryu isn't going to matter for long because he usually hits you 2-3 times and that lead is gone. Ryu was thought to be "easy to camp" until in practice camping him got hard because one mistake led to the camping person effectively losing their % lead because of Ryu's high damage and range, or even getting killed if they were at feasible %s and Ryu had Rage.

He's the premier heavy of this game IMO. No reason to NOT use Ryu if you like playing heavy characters, he's basically an upgraded version of them with a more competent toolkit. I think perhaps the biggest thing Ryu has as a heavy compared to other heavies is probably his frame data though. Hell, I think if any heavy character in our roster right now had the frame data of someone like Ryu, they'd be MILES better even without True Shoryuken and Ryu's kit as a whole. It really does do a lot.

 

[Cress!]

bravely grinding till the end of time

I had the enemy encounter rate at 0 for almost my entire first play through and never needed to grind. .-.

 

[Furret]

I had the enemy encounter rate at 0 for almost my entire first play through and never needed to grind. .-.

what diff and did you use street pass helpers?