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Guide Zelda Social: But also the FE Heroes Internet Cafe

Ffamran

The Smooth Devil Mod
Joined
Aug 25, 2014
Messages
14,629
Okay. Good. Anyway....

Remember that Falco vs Shulk MU you were lamenting about? Definitely don't think the Falco vs Shulk MU is bad at all. It's far from being a curbstomp in Shulk's favor imo
Falco has trouble with being out-ranged and dealing with disjoints in general. It's basically dealing with a character who's fast hitter, but moves to slowly to get in. Imagine if Fox, Pikachu, Sheik, Little Mac, or Captain Falcon were much slower movement-wise. They would have an immediate disadvantage against getting hit before they can make it in while punishing for them would still be a pain as they could get walled out for preventing approaches and approaching. It'd be especially worse for Fox, Pikachu, and Sheik who don't hit as hard as Little Mac, Captain Falcon, Kirby, or Falco. It's pretty what lets Kirby, Falco, and Ganondorf stand where they're at now: they're really hard hitters (and fast hitters to, especially for a heavyweight like Ganondorf), but if they weren't, they'd clearly be the bottom characters who would be pathetically slow and pathetically weak. Could you imagine the hell it would be to play a heavy weight that does little to no damage, little to no knockback, moves slowly, and hit slowly? Nobody's that character (yet). And no, it's not Samus as she at least hits fairly quickly, can combo a ton, but the question is how she gets in and why she can't kill despite clearly having advanced weapons.

The main issues for those three is "no approach tools". Kirby can duck under hits, but if Sheik just lands a hit and Kirby decides to duck through the entire match, Sheik can win by timing the game out. Kirby's main approach option is using Copy which isn't exactly reliable and in some MUs, not useful like against Fox who has the speed to use his Blaster unlike Kirby. Falco's issue is his projectile is really subpar for an approach tool like Mario's Fireball, Fox's Blaster, and even Triple D's Gordos and Zelda's Din's Fire. The risk you take is much larger than the reward compared to Zelda who takes a huge risk, but can get a huge reward with Din's Fire. Then you have projectiles like Luigi's Fireballs, Sheik's Needles, Toon Link's Bombs, and Yoshi's Eggs and there's this gap where more mobile or well, in Luigi's case, a character who can massively benefit from projectiles do, but a slower character doesn't? Falco's Blaster is essentially a sniper rifle if it was firing a rubber bullet that traveled slowly. It's an inconvenience compared to the annoying Fox Blaster lasers or the fear created from Toon Link's Bombs since he can hit confirm using them. Ganondorf at least can take the hits unlike Kirby and Falco, but he's so slow and so tall that future metagames might involve camping him out the entire time before they get to kill percent or if you're playing a character that can easily combo and gimp, people are going to get really good at that where you'll see Sheik Fairing Ganondorf to hell and back.

The MU between Shulk, is still unknown... Even the Wii Fit Trainers complained that there's like no Falco players in the world so they can't say much.
 

Jestar

Prinsass of Hyrule
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Use MK so i can tell you how much you suck.

That's my thing y'know, like soul saying 'eh' all the time or going on about pikachu or 3ds. fullmoon making everything related to greninja for no reason, fframran ranting about pointless ****, eodmo7 being a weab, machiato not sticking with one char etc.
Wish I could like this more than once.

There should be some sort of master list for what everyone on this thread is known for/what their thing is.
 
Joined
Jun 8, 2009
Messages
18,990
Use MK so i can tell you how much you suck.

That's my thing y'know, like soul saying 'eh' all the time or going on about pikachu or 3ds. fullmoon making everything related to greninja for no reason, fframran ranting about pointless ****, eodmo7 being a weab, machiato not sticking with one char etc.
I really wanna use MK because everyone calls him mid or low tier. Lmao. Idk though. I guess I can give him a shot.
Falco has trouble with being out-ranged and dealing with disjoints in general. It's basically dealing with a character who's fast hitter, but moves to slowly to get in. Imagine if Fox, Pikachu, Sheik, Little Mac, or Captain Falcon were much slower movement-wise. They would have an immediate disadvantage against getting hit before they can make it in while punishing for them would still be a pain as they could get walled out for preventing approaches and approaching. It'd be especially worse for Fox, Pikachu, and Sheik who don't hit as hard as Little Mac, Captain Falcon, Kirby, or Falco. It's pretty what lets Kirby, Falco, and Ganondorf stand where they're at now: they're really hard hitters (and fast hitters to, especially for a heavyweight like Ganondorf), but if they weren't, they'd clearly be the bottom characters who would be pathetically slow and pathetically weak. Could you imagine the hell it would be to play a heavy weight that does little to no damage, little to no knockback, moves slowly, and hit slowly? Nobody's that character (yet). And no, it's not Samus as she at least hits fairly quickly, can combo a ton, but the question is how she gets in and why she can't kill despite clearly having advanced weapons.

The main issues for those three is "no approach tools". Kirby can duck under hits, but if Sheik just lands a hit and Kirby decides to duck through the entire match, Sheik can win by timing the game out. Kirby's main approach option is using Copy which isn't exactly reliable and in some MUs, not useful like against Fox who has the speed to use his Blaster unlike Kirby. Falco's issue is his projectile is really subpar for an approach tool like Mario's Fireball, Fox's Blaster, and even Triple D's Gordos and Zelda's Din's Fire. The risk you take is much larger than the reward compared to Zelda who takes a huge risk, but can get a huge reward with Din's Fire. Then you have projectiles like Luigi's Fireballs, Sheik's Needles, Toon Link's Bombs, and Yoshi's Eggs and there's this gap where more mobile or well, in Luigi's case, a character who can massively benefit from projectiles do, but a slower character doesn't? Falco's Blaster is essentially a sniper rifle if it was firing a rubber bullet that traveled slowly. It's an inconvenience compared to the annoying Fox Blaster lasers or the fear created from Toon Link's Bombs since he can hit confirm using them. Ganondorf at least can take the hits unlike Kirby and Falco, but he's so slow and so tall that future metagames might involve camping him out the entire time before they get to kill percent or if you're playing a character that can easily combo and gimp, people are going to get really good at that where you'll see Sheik Fairing Ganondorf to hell and back.

The MU between Shulk, is still unknown... Even the Wii Fit Trainers complained that there's like no Falco players in the world so they can't say much.
Falco's n-air and f-air are nightmares for Shulk recovering even in jump. Well timed sweet spotted d-air can meteor air slash if it doesn't ledge snap. Shulk is also combo food so there's that

It's not that bad, tbh. Not implying that Falco beats Shulk btw. I'm not confident on concluding who wins because there are like.... zero Falco mains atm so lol
 

EODM07

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Falco's n-air and f-air are nightmares for Shulk recovering even in jump. Well timed sweet spotted d-air can meteor air slash if it doesn't ledge snap. Shulk is also combo food so there's that

It's not that bad, tbh. Not implying that Falco beats Shulk btw. I'm not confident on concluding who wins because there are like.... zero Falco mains atm so lol
So that's good then. We won't have to deal with the bird. :3

Use MK so i can tell you how much you suck.

That's my thing y'know, like soul saying 'eh' all the time or going on about pikachu or 3ds. fullmoon making everything related to greninja for no reason, fframran ranting about pointless ****, eodmo7 being a weab, machiato not sticking with one char etc.
I actually did try MK before, but I kinda felt like he wasn't for me. Who knows, maybe I'll try and use him again in some friendlies.

And I know I'm a weeb. I take pride in it. :yeahboi:

 

Ffamran

The Smooth Devil Mod
Joined
Aug 25, 2014
Messages
14,629
I really wanna use MK because everyone calls him mid or low tier. Lmao. Idk though. I guess I can give him a shot.
Meta Knight's kind of easy to play... Just don't play stupid. :p

Falco's n-air and f-air are nightmares for Shulk recovering even in jump. Well timed sweet spotted d-air can meteor air slash if it doesn't ledge snap. Shulk is also combo food so there's that

It's not that bad, tbh. Not implying that Falco beats Shulk btw. I'm not confident on concluding who wins because there are like.... zero Falco mains atm so lol
Hmm, you don't like online play, right? Laaaaaaag... Well, you could have asked Cyro or someone else, but oh well.
 

Locke 06

Sayonara, bye bye~
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Use MK so i can tell you how much you suck.

That's my thing y'know, like soul saying 'eh' all the time or going on about pikachu or 3ds. fullmoon making everything related to greninja for no reason, fframran ranting about pointless ****, eodmo7 being a weab, machiato not sticking with one char etc.
I finally played a decent MK main who played like you should play the character (a patient baiting campy mofo). T|mm¥ of the infamous smash tw!ns.

Up air sharking the ledge, pivot fsmashes>dash attack out of the nonexistent endlag. Ew. Your character is even less fun than mine.

Yay for namesearch avoidance.
 

warionumbah2

Smash Master
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Messages
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Playing KOF XIV
Wish I could like this more than once.

There should be some sort of master list for what everyone on this thread is known for/what their thing is.
Make. This. Happen.

I really wanna use MK because everyone calls him mid or low tier. Lmao. Idk though. I guess I can give him a shot.
I'm doing what Ike mains do, stfu and let it play out. Ike got buffed.

I ranted about how good MK was but no one listened, ZeRo put him in mid for no reason, Smshcaps horrible reddit list puts him in mid ALL THE TIME, SWF list downplays him, commentators are dumb.

Arguing for his case never works, you got diddy users trying to use MK cuz he does well against Rosa but they're trash. Outside MK boards i deliberately call him low tier or mid because i want them buffs, only Kofu,Pacman9 and Antonykun clicked onto my bs lol

Sadly Japan is putting him on B tier, then Ike is still at bottom waiting for more buffs. I need to step up my game.

I finally played a decent MK main who played like you should play the character (a patient baiting campy mofo). T|mm¥ of the infamous smash tw!ns.

Up air sharking the ledge, pivot fsmashes>dash attack out of the nonexistent endlag. Ew. Your character is even less fun than mine.

Yay for namesearch avoidance.
MK triggers my sadistic side.

Meta Knight's kind of easy to play... Just don't play stupid. :p
This relationship won't last
 

Baskerville

That's a paddlin'
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Make. This. Happen.



I'm doing what Ike mains do, stfu and let it play out. Ike got buffed.

I ranted about how good MK was but no one listened, ZeRo put him in mid for no reason, Smshcaps horrible reddit list puts him in mid ALL THE TIME, SWF list downplays him, commentators are dumb.

Arguing for his case never works, you got diddy users trying to use MK cuz he does well against Rosa but they're trash. Outside MK boards i deliberately call him low tier or mid because i want them buffs, only Kofu,Pacman9 and Antonykun clicked onto my bs lol

Sadly Japan is putting him on B tier, then Ike is still at bottom waiting for more buffs. I need to step up my game.


MK triggers my sadistic side.


This relationship won't last
Can confirm.
Seriously, wtf is an MK when his Dash Attack just bodies Luma?
 

Macchiato

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Falco has trouble with being out-ranged and dealing with disjoints in general. It's basically dealing with a character who's fast hitter, but moves to slowly to get in. Imagine if Fox, Pikachu, Sheik, Little Mac, or Captain Falcon were much slower movement-wise. They would have an immediate disadvantage against getting hit before they can make it in while punishing for them would still be a pain as they could get walled out for preventing approaches and approaching. It'd be especially worse for Fox, Pikachu, and Sheik who don't hit as hard as Little Mac, Captain Falcon, Kirby, or Falco. It's pretty what lets Kirby, Falco, and Ganondorf stand where they're at now: they're really hard hitters (and fast hitters to, especially for a heavyweight like Ganondorf), but if they weren't, they'd clearly be the bottom characters who would be pathetically slow and pathetically weak. Could you imagine the hell it would be to play a heavy weight that does little to no damage, little to no knockback, moves slowly, and hit slowly? Nobody's that character (yet). And no, it's not Samus as she at least hits fairly quickly, can combo a ton, but the question is how she gets in and why she can't kill despite clearly having advanced weapons.

The main issues for those three is "no approach tools". Kirby can duck under hits, but if Sheik just lands a hit and Kirby decides to duck through the entire match, Sheik can win by timing the game out. Kirby's main approach option is using Copy which isn't exactly reliable and in some MUs, not useful like against Fox who has the speed to use his Blaster unlike Kirby. Falco's issue is his projectile is really subpar for an approach tool like Mario's Fireball, Fox's Blaster, and even Triple D's Gordos and Zelda's Din's Fire. The risk you take is much larger than the reward compared to Zelda who takes a huge risk, but can get a huge reward with Din's Fire. Then you have projectiles like Luigi's Fireballs, Sheik's Needles, Toon Link's Bombs, and Yoshi's Eggs and there's this gap where more mobile or well, in Luigi's case, a character who can massively benefit from projectiles do, but a slower character doesn't? Falco's Blaster is essentially a sniper rifle if it was firing a rubber bullet that traveled slowly. It's an inconvenience compared to the annoying Fox Blaster lasers or the fear created from Toon Link's Bombs since he can hit confirm using them. Ganondorf at least can take the hits unlike Kirby and Falco, but he's so slow and so tall that future metagames might involve camping him out the entire time before they get to kill percent or if you're playing a character that can easily combo and gimp, people are going to get really good at that where you'll see Sheik Fairing Ganondorf to hell and back.

The MU between Shulk, is still unknown... Even the Wii Fit Trainers complained that there's like no Falco players in the world so they can't say much.
I was gonna contribute to WiiFit vs Falco

Then I thought to myself "What does a Falco do?"
 

Lorde

Let 'em talk
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Why would Diddy mains use MK against Rosalina? Diddy already has one of the better match ups against her (unless the nerfs really affected him that much).
 

SBphiloz4

Gatekeeper of the Shadows
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Why would Diddy mains use MK against Rosalina? Diddy already has one of the better match ups against her (unless the nerfs really affected him that much).
wtf r u talking about rosalinda is obviously 8-2 against diddy because her tilts and smashes outrange diddy's and the banana can be nullified by luma or gravity pulled im not sure why u think the best character in the game even has a bad matchup in the game our goddess rosalinda is op
 
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in your dreams..
Why would Diddy mains use MK against Rosalina? Diddy already has one of the better match ups against her (unless the nerfs really affected him that much).
I heard the nerfs dropped him from top 5-ish to mid- tier. So yeah, that's a little scary. Scarier than B-gorls's Aoba cake (The one new gorl who mains Sheik, sorry I couldn't remember how to spell your name!)
 

warionumbah2

Smash Master
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Playing KOF XIV
Diddy can't do **** to rosa now, he got nerfed way too hard. Uair was the reason why he was so dominant in that MU, now they trying to use MK but nooope.

MK isn't a pocket or secondary, any competent rosa player will stomp pocket MKs into the ground. Skill floor is too high on this character.

You got debaz saying he stomps rosa on the mk boards which is bull****, its not even that big of an advantage.

Can confirm.
Seriously, wtf is an MK when his Dash Attack just bodies Luma?
Cause he's a low tier.
 

Jestar

Prinsass of Hyrule
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Speaking of Rosalina, I've noticed some "new avatars" of her floating around this place.

They're showcasing "beauty" alright.
 

Shrokatii

Smash Lord
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wtf r u talking about rosalinda is obviously 8-2 against diddy because her tilts and smashes outrange diddy's and the banana can be nullified by luma or gravity pulled im not sure why u think the best character in the game even has a bad matchup in the game our goddess rosalinda is op
don't forget her across b can beat all his approaches I tested this with 2 level 9's on fd rosalinda won
 
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warionumbah2

Smash Master
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Playing KOF XIV
Why's MK's learning curve high? /just curious
Cant be bothered to write a long post but, its an accurate guess i made.

His combos arent free like luigis, the way he plays neutral is different to others, his approach options are limited, his edgeguarding although really good unlike sheik it isnt braindead, he has NO SH AERIALS, hou need a silly amount of MU knowledge against everyone since he plays differently.

I'll link you to people who pick up MK randomly but fail. Or you could try using him at some point.

@ warionumbah2 warionumbah2 , apparently, Angel Cortes uses Meta Knight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHVqjm2sRXM.

And this one too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=girL9W23cxo. So, did his Meta Knight get exposed to you? Is it up to par? Is it ***? :p
Hes the players im on about, the diddy users that are jumping on MK because Ito and Rosa.lemme sit and watch before i start doing my thing. :)
 
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Ffamran

The Smooth Devil Mod
Joined
Aug 25, 2014
Messages
14,629
Hes the players im on about, the diddy users that are jumping on MK because Ito and Rosa.lemme sit and watch before i start doing my thing. :)
Still, Angel's kind of a good Meta Knight player. I don't think there's a wiki page for him, so I don't know who he played in Brawl or Melee or PM or 64. It's not like, "Oh, Diddy's nerfed; gotta switch to another OP character". Angel could have easily switched to Luigi, Captain Falcon, Fox, etc. Dude's apparently also got a Sheik too that he used in the tournament.
 

warionumbah2

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Playing KOF XIV
He said on the twitter page he'll use him because

A) he got buffed
B) Ito fanboy no 293747
C) MK does well against lord rosa

Its basically tier whoring especially when zex called him high tier and stuff.

His MK is butts, why is he using nado out of down throw? Just dash attack sheik after down throw on low percents, shes a fast faller. His MU knowledge on sheik is wack, hes using DAIR to edgeguard sheik. He missed all his throw follow ups.

Hes fast falling with aerials and hes actually using them in neutral against sheik. The hell. Im still watching but the sheik player is laughable and they're shocked over DA into shuttle loop. Thats like getting hype over luigi using down into down b.

Why is using sh fair, its making my stomach hurt. screw you falco mod for linking me to this. Im gonna have to report you my man.
 
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Soul.

 
Joined
Jul 7, 2014
Messages
19,659
Rosalina jokes got boring.
...
Diddy's nerfs made no sense at all when you think about it. He was made "fair" in 1.0.6; 1.0.8 Diddy is... eh.
 

Baskerville

That's a paddlin'
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The more I see 1.0.8 Falco combos the more I want to call him N-Air the Character.
 

Space Stranger

space cowboy
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Considering :4diddy: and to a lesser extent, :4falcon:, were known for U-airs and :4sheik: for F-airs, this is a change. :p
 

Ffamran

The Smooth Devil Mod
Joined
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Messages
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The more I see 1.0.8 Falco combos the more I want to call him N-Air the Character.
Well, he was Bair to the character too, so that's two titles now. :p

Looking at Falco's default Blaster, I really have no idea why it works... Regular use involves 3%, 100 knockback growth, 2 weighted knockback, 0 base knockback, is electric elemental, does 0.1x hit lag, and it never kills. Meanwhile, the laser portion of U-throw does 4% instead of the usual 3%, has a hit angle of Sakurai (361), 60 KBG, 0 WKB, 100 BKB, is electric elemental, and can kill while the throw portion does 4%, has a hit angle of 94 60 KBG, 0 WKB, 100 BKB, and can by itself. For B-throw, the laser portion does 3%, has at hit angle of Sakurai, 100 KBG, 0 WKB, 60 BKB, is electric elemental, and can kill and the throw portion does 6%, has a hit angle of 35, 60 KBG, 0 WKB, 80 BKB, and can kill by itself. I'm curious as to why the laser can kill now why it kills, but why the developers decided to allow it to kill. In theory, if Falco's Blaster portion of U-throw, B-throw, and even D-throw functioned like his Blaster during regular use, they would only cause freezes or hit stun and would probably be the worst throws in the game since it would actually save opponents from stopping their momentum in the air, but D-throw would be interesting as it would be like Lucas's D-throw, but without the popup effect.

The other curiosity is this: why not just make Falco's Blaster during regular use function like during throws? The throws' laser parts actually function like Wolf's Blaster where there's no set knockback. At the same time, frame data indicates Falco's regular Blaster does have knockback growth unless I'm missing something - which I probably am. The fact Falco's Blaster could kill then would immediately justify the end lag even if it killed at like 330% at center stage. Right now, it's like Falco's Blaster either has a setting switch which he should just set to kill mode at all times instead of stun considering there seems to be no major change or even major reason to use stun unless this was a cop or stealth game, or Falco's Blaster is a dumb, logic-defying thing. @Lavani, help please.
 

Rickster

Smash Master
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Just looked at some of those FE:F quotes. Those are reaaaally lewd, holy ****. Definitely wasn't expecting any of that, lol.

Localization team is going to have a field day with that.
 

Koiba

코이바 ❤
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GORLS I'M OUT OF SCHOOL







But it's also my last year there and I have to make new friends at my new school

I cried a puddle because everyone else was crying because I was leaving and I was sad

So I need to get in a better mood

Games anyone?

To play list: I don't do 3DS. I'll get rekt :p (copied and pasted)
@redfeatherraven -pika doubles
@ Jestar Jestar -1st shipping buddy:)
@CPU 3 - "Dark" Pit :132:
@Burgundy Blade - shulk matchups
@Twili - Rosie doubles
@ Lorde Lorde -Jiggs and Rosie doubles
@Matsushi - lol lag :p
@|ven| lol want to get rekt by sass :)
@ r_greening1 r_greening1 shipping buddies
@RedCap-BlueSpikes - teach me Pauly mine sucks
@2004Zilla - teach me style boost kick kills with ZSS
@Moydow - teach me style boost kick kills with ZSS
@Phenomiracle -Halp me with my :4darkpit:
@Project Crysis -Because Mr. Antony told me to
@Suicidal_Donuts - I feel bad for our first match so I wanna rematch :/
 

EODM07

Smash Hero
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Will there ever be a character that'll have an even MU against Rosalatency? Besides herself. :V
The only time I fought a Rosaleopard was on FG and it made me very salty. But that was ages ago.

I seriously need to learn the MU against her.

Also, saw Gintama & Ore Monogatari!!. The episodes were awesome. :yeahboi:


I kinda want someone to edit this gif to be Palucina related. With Sakurai walking in. :secretkpop:

Or just edit it to however you want it to be. :V
 
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Rizen

Smash Legend
Joined
May 7, 2009
Messages
14,927
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Colorado
blaster stuff
Throw blaster seems to be programed as part of the throw and not like normal B blaster. I wonder if throw blaster cannot be reflected?
Do Falco's customs increase his throw damage/KB?

While I'm at it, what would you say are Falco's best custom moves?

edit

Just looked at some of those FE:F quotes. Those are reaaaally lewd, holy ****. Definitely wasn't expecting any of that, lol.

Localization team is going to have a field day with that.
Can you link them? Japan often has more questionable material in games than western cultures.
 
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S.F.L.R_9

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 29, 2014
Messages
4,355
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Las Vegas it's hot yall help
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suffler9
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GORLS I'M OUT OF SCHOOL







But it's also my last year there and I have to make new friends at my new school

I cried a puddle because everyone else was crying because I was leaving and I was sad

So I need to get in a better mood

Games anyone?

To play list: I don't do 3DS. I'll get rekt :p (copied and pasted)
@redfeatherraven -pika doubles
@ Jestar Jestar -1st shipping buddy:)
@CPU 3 - "Dark" Pit :132:
@Burgundy Blade - shulk matchups
@Twili - Rosie doubles
@ Lorde Lorde -Jiggs and Rosie doubles
@Matsushi - lol lag :p
@|ven| lol want to get rekt by sass :)
@ r_greening1 r_greening1 shipping buddies
@RedCap-BlueSpikes - teach me Pauly mine sucks
@2004Zilla - teach me style boost kick kills with ZSS
@Moydow - teach me style boost kick kills with ZSS
@Phenomiracle -Halp me with my :4darkpit:
@Project Crysis -Because Mr. Antony told me to
@Suicidal_Donuts - I feel bad for our first match so I wanna rematch :/
I'll play! Just give me a min or two to get online
 
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